Topic: tips from the sports shooters

[stirinthesauce]

Well, looks like I've been hired to shoot this soccer tourney up here where I live.  They sought me out, I didn't market myself.  A little outside my realm as I'm not a sportshooter.  I sell landscapes in galleries, occasional commission work of portraitures of kids and the concert photog which is strictly for fun. However, not worried as I've seen the work of the "pro" sports shooters up here and I am less than impressed.  It will be over the course of a week, with shoots in the morning daily of different teams.  Mostly of warmups/stretches and the early games.  Then a quick turnaround (overnight shipping of prints), framing next day (not by me, this is the promoter doing this part) and selling the action/collage framed prints back to the teams.  I meet with the promoter to work out payment this month.  Think I'm just going to work on a day rate plus costs of the prints since I want to use my service.  I'll let him worry about his costs. 

What I'm curious of is, any tips from the sports shooters?  I may still turn this job down if it does not meet my price.  I'm thinking 100-150 a day since it will be about 6hrs or less work a day including processing, ordering.  Normally, I would charge 150 an hour with some prints included (limited to quantity and size) but since this is more the turn and burn type deal, I don't mind offering a lower rate.

Not worried on gear.  Could use a faster back but I will manage.  Have 5d and 350d and figure for glass I will use my 70-200Lf2.8 and a Tamron 28-135f3.5-5.6 or maybe the 24-70f2.8


Oh, and for those that say leave it to the real pros, I live in hillbilly central.  I'm about as pro as it gets in these parts 

[eric.B]

cool!

looks like you need to pick up this bad boy..   http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/186152-USA/Canon_2533A002_Telephoto_EF_400mm_f_2_8L.html

[stirinthesauce]

cool!

looks like you need to pick up this bad boy..   http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/186152-USA/Canon_2533A002_Telephoto_EF_400mm_f_2_8L.html

I wish!  That is the dream sports lens.   

[BJ]

Well, looks like I've been hired to shoot this soccer tourney up here where I live.  They sought me out, I didn't market myself.  A little outside my realm as I'm not a sportshooter.  I sell landscapes in galleries, occasional commission work of portraitures of kids and the concert photog which is strictly for fun. However, not worried as I've seen the work of the "pro" sports shooters up here and I am less than impressed.  It will be over the course of a week, with shoots in the morning daily of different teams.  Mostly of warmups/stretches and the early games.  Then a quick turnaround (overnight shipping of prints), framing next day (not by me, this is the promoter doing this part) and selling the action/collage framed prints back to the teams.  I meet with the promoter to work out payment this month.  Think I'm just going to work on a day rate plus costs of the prints since I want to use my service.  I'll let him worry about his costs. 

What I'm curious of is, any tips from the sports shooters?  I may still turn this job down if it does not meet my price.  I'm thinking 100-150 a day since it will be about 6hrs or less work a day including processing, ordering.  Normally, I would charge 150 an hour with some prints included (limited to quantity and size) but since this is more the turn and burn type deal, I don't mind offering a lower rate.

Not worried on gear.  Could use a faster back but I will manage.  Have 5d and 350d and figure for glass I will use my 70-200Lf2.8 and a Tamron 28-135f3.5-5.6 or maybe the 24-70f2.8


Oh, and for those that say leave it to the real pros, I live in hillbilly central.  I'm about as pro as it gets in these parts 

your gear is fine.  Although, if you want, you can always borrow my IS version for the week.  Your more than welcome to the 40d also, just for another camera so you don't have to constantly switch lenses (just an offer)  shoot in Av, use center point AF AI Servo, back focus star, and use AWB.  when the sun starts getting harsh, raise your EC 1/3 - 2/3 depending.  You should have decent light in the mornings, so I would suggest ISO 200 and go around 1/1600 to stop the action, you may need a little faster (dont chimp too much or they will know!  )  STAY LOW to the ground and WATCH your backgrounds!!!  if you can get reasonably close, open up the f4 for 5.6, you should be able to still get good bokeh there, and your shots should be tack sharp on the 70-200.
Also, if you can, go watch some soccer (about the same age groups) and try to get a feel for the action/speed, and what shots should/will be available and when.  This way you can anticipate during the game.  I know VERY LITTLE of soccer, so I would need to watch a lot.  Also, go look at soccer photos from pro's, and see what kind of action shots they are shooting in that sport. (im sure you are already doing this, just a reminder)

http://www.astropix.com/SPORTSPIX/NSC/NOTES.HTM
http://www.photo.net/sports/overview
http://www.sportsshooter.com/

edit: searched around, i don't think your 5d does the back star focus like the 1d/1ds do...i thought it might

[stirinthesauce]

Thanks BJ for the tips, what I was looking for.  And thanks for the offer on the 40d    I may hit you up on that.

I played soccer all my childhood so I know the game.  Been around it my whole life.  From playing on Olympic Development Teams to selling ads in the 90's for a couple semi pro teams my dad used to own.

Should be fun and a learning experience.  Plus, can make some cash and get my name out there in other areas.

[BJ]

np.  I looked a little, and I dont think your 5d can do the back focus adjustments like the 1d/1ds can (i was hoping it could, as I have read that is the beesknees )  other than that, it should be the same.  I dont have it on my 40d either...but man i would like to play with a 1ds mkiii 

man..if you can get in on the sports $ for your small area..you should be SETUP!  esp if you can start getting the easy $ from the T&I photos...

good luck!

[stirinthesauce]

np.  I looked a little, and I dont think your 5d can do the back focus adjustments like the 1d/1ds can (i was hoping it could, as I have read that is the beesknees )  other than that, it should be the same.  I dont have it on my 40d either...but man i would like to play with a 1ds mkiii 

man..if you can get in on the sports $ for your small area..you should be SETUP!  esp if you can start getting the easy $ from the T&I photos...

good luck!

No kidding.  The promoter owns a catering company up here and we have done alot of work together in the past.  He is also a tennis coach and does clinics throughout the summer.  That is what I want to get in on.  Hopefully, that will be an in.  EAZZZZY Greazzzzzy money.

[cgrooves]

shoot in Av, use center point AF AI Servo, back focus star, and use AWB. 

BJ-
As a new owner of a 30D, I'm trying to educate myself. 
I'm curious why you recommend prioritizing the aperture setting rather than the shutter speed for fast action sports.  [i.e.  Are you concerned with achieving a certain depth of field?  Should the apperture setting just be adjusted to where the resulting shutter speeds stay around 1/1600?]  Also, when you say 'use center point', you mean prioritizing the center point of the 9 point AF feature (evaluative metering), and not using spot metering - correct?


If it was me using my 30D for this purpose, I would have assumed that I should probably play around with the sports setting before venturing into manual / av / tv modes.  I also assumed that I would want to use one of the continuous shooting modes (if it wasn't in the sports setting at the time).


Jon-
Good to hear you are finding new ways to make that gear pay off!

[BJ]

shoot in Av, use center point AF AI Servo, back focus star, and use AWB. 

BJ-
As a new owner of a 30D, I'm trying to educate myself. 
I'm curious why you recommend prioritizing the aperture setting rather than the shutter speed for fast action sports.  [i.e.  Are you concerned with achieving a certain depth of field?  Should the apperture setting just be adjusted to where the resulting shutter speeds stay around 1/1600?]  Also, when you say 'use center point', you mean prioritizing the center point of the 9 point AF feature (evaluative metering), and not using spot metering - correct?


If it was me using my 30D for this purpose, I would have assumed that I should probably play around with the sports setting before venturing into manual / av / tv modes.  I also assumed that I would want to use one of the continuous shooting modes (if it wasn't in the sports setting at the time).


Jon-
Good to hear you are finding new ways to make that gear pay off!

well, you have to remember, I am a newb too.  I have read alot, and tried to experiment as much as possible, but again, im a newb!  here is why i say go with that setup (i read it from a pro somewhere i know - probably fm.com)

when in Av mode, you are more concerned about your background having good bokeh and good control over the sharpness of your image (aperature control)  Av will automatically adjust your shutter for you, so you don't have to adjust on the fly (this will save A LOT of time)  If the lighting is harsh, you can just do a little exposure compensation and keep shooting, or if you need a little more shutter speed, just increase your ISO until you are in the right range for speed.  These are all settings that don't change with every shot, so once you are set, its just point and shoot. That is why i like Av mode (i figure more experienced photogs, who are better with the camera features, and faster on the buttons) can probably go full Manual mode.  I am not that good, and this works well for me to far.  to make a lot of rambling shorter, its less adjustments at the time of the shot I have to make    as far as the aperature setting, unless its dark, with my f2.8 i try to stay around f5.6 maybe f4.0...the images are usually sharper in that range, and it still gives decent bokeh (provided you have a long lens (i try to shoot action as TIGHT as possible) and will have my lens at 200mm almost the entire time).  Continuous shooting, yes, make sure you have a fast card!

[cgrooves]

"with my f2.8 i try to stay around f5.6 maybe f4.0...the images are usually sharper in that range, and it still gives decent bokeh (provided you have a long lens (i try to shoot action as TIGHT as possible) and will have my lens at 200mm almost the entire time).

Gotcha. 
I was thinking you were meaning to adjust the aperture value only (to get the shutter speed in the 1/1600 range) but wasn't thinking about ISO adjustments.  I'm with you on the f4.0-f5.6 range for sharper images and adjusting the ISO as needed to get the shutter speeds required.  Seems like you could use the ISO adjustment to get 'in the ballpark' on shutter speed and then make fine adjustments on the aperture, as needed to dial it in just right. 
Thanks for the clarification.
+T

[MattD]

edit: searched around, i don't think your 5d does the back star focus like the 1d/1ds do...i thought it might

It sure does—CF4, I think.

[BJ]

edit: searched around, i don't think your 5d does the back star focus like the 1d/1ds do...i thought it might

It sure does—CF4, I think.

excellent news.hold the * down while tracking...release and shoot!!!!

[stirinthesauce]

edit: searched around, i don't think your 5d does the back star focus like the 1d/1ds do...i thought it might

It sure does—CF4, I think.

w00t!

I'm pretty damn fast in full manual mode.  But, for ease and piece of mind, I will probably go in AV mode.  High iso performance is kick fucking ass on the 5d.  I didn't realize how good unitl I played around with it.

Lets just hope this gig pays so I can actually take it instead of holding onto moral standards and turning down the job because of slave wages.

[stirinthesauce]

Update:

Got the gig.  It is a weeklong soccer tourney, with teams from all over the world.  Still a smallish youth tourney.  I work afternoons and eveinings mon-thurs so that was disclosed before I agreed to do anything.  Looks like I will be doing 3 half day shoots.  Monday and Tuesday games start at 8am with I think 6 teams playing on 3 fields (I believe) so I have a lot of ground to cover.  So I will cover all the morning games for the first two mornings (7am - 12pm), then I will do overnight orders.  Prints (4x6) will me framed in tournement logod frames (I won't have to frame, just upload and order) and sold on Thursday and Friday.  So, I'm basically just needing to get a shot of each kid on the field and then the parents can have a keep sake momento with the tournament logo'd frame for a reasonable fee.  Then, I am shooting the championship and the awards ceremony Friday afternoon and evening and that is going into a book that is being put together and published. 

I'll be busy that week but should be making some money (most important    ) and gaining some valuable experience, contacts and some published stuff to add to the resume.  This will all be taking place in mid/late July.

Fun!