Topic: Who invented hypercardioid pattern microphones?

[BobW]

Does anyone know who invented directional mics, especially hypers?


just wonderin'...

[bdasilva]

Got Google??

[Roger Gustavsson]

I have found this on the Internet (the source is unknown to me):
 
"In 1936 RCA introduced the 77A ribbon microphone. This was the first unidirectional type. This microphone used two ribbons. One operated as a velocity and the other as a pressure type. Since the phase relationships of the two are different,the resulting pickup pattern becomes cardioid or heart-shaped. The lower part of this microphone consist of a stack of grooved discs with lambs's wool in the grooves. The purpose of this design is to absorb the pressure behind the pressure ribbon."

http://users.belgacom.net/gc391665/microphone_history.htm

[DSatz]

Roger, there definitely were directional microphones before 1936; for example, the M7 bayonet capsule for the Neumann CMV 3 ("bottle") was introduced in 1932, and it tends toward a hypercardioid pattern above the midrange. Or you could say that the M 49 was the first "hypercardioid" since the user could choose any pattern from omni through figure-8 remotely.

The first hypercardioid condenser microphone with just that one directional pattern was the Schoeps M 221 B using the MK 241 capsule, introduced in 1964. If there were single-pattern ribbon or other dynamic hypercardioids before that, I wouldn't be at all surprised, but I don't know which ones they were. The usual suspects would be Shure and Electrovoice, I suppose.

By the way, a lot of people on this board seem to mistake shotgun microphones as being hypercardioid, but that really is a mistake. If Bob was really asking about the first shotgun microphones, then that's a whole other question.

[Roger Gustavsson]

I found that source a bit unsecure, as it is about US made microphones. I was also looking at the homepage of Neumann/MicrotechGefell, Sennheiser, Beyer Dynamic and Schoeps. Wasn't Blumlein running omnis in his first crossed pair of figure of eight, because the quality of the directional microphones were so low at that time?

[John Willett]

By the way, a lot of people on this board seem to mistake shotgun microphones as being hypercardioid, but that really is a mistake. If Bob was really asking about the first shotgun microphones, then that's a whole other question.

A shotgun microphone is normally a super-cardioid capsule with an interference tube on the front.

The interference tube gun microphone was invented by Sennheiser - and he got an Oscar for it (Technical Oscar 1987) 

[Roger Gustavsson]

Roger, there definitely were directional microphones before 1936; for example, the M7 bayonet capsule for the Neumann CMV 3 ("bottle") was introduced in 1932, and it tends toward a hypercardioid pattern above the midrange. Or you could say that the M 49 was the first "hypercardioid" since the user could choose any pattern from omni through figure-8 remotely.

According to Neumann/Microtech Gefell, the M7 was introduced in 1936. The CMV 3 in 1928.

[DSatz]

Roger G., the dates I gave were from a well-known chart published by Neumann (Berlin). I'm not surprised to see discrepancies between it and the dates given by Gefell, even assuming complete sincerity on everyone's part. The two companies just see things differently, and as long as each company presents its own story from its own viewpoint, I suspect that discrepancies will persist.

But just to be clear, I don't mean that the Neumann M 7 was the first hypercardioid or the first directional anything. I simply gave it as an example of a "unidirectional" microphone earlier than the RCA ribbon. As you noted later, the site you quoted was really talking only about US-made microphones.

John W., if an interference tube wouldn't alter the directionality of a microphone, what else would be the point of using one? As I said, shotguns aren't the same as super- or hypercardioids. Sennheiser, Neumann, Schoeps and other manufacturers make microphones which are supercardioids and others which are shotguns; QED.

Anyway I was really just asking, "Hmm, what if Bob really wanted to know who invented the shotgun microphone?" and Bob is probably the person best able to answer that, if not the only person.

But if that is his question, I'm not sure that your answer is correct--does Sennheiser even make this claim? Please bear in mind the difference between a successful implementation and the idea on which it is based. That applies also to the technical Oscar that you mentioned. The actual history of inventions can often be rather complex.

I've even seen one microphone manufacturer in recent years run an ad boasting of having just received a MIX "Tec" award--but they neither invented what they claimed in the ad, nor does their Tec award say so! This business is becoming more and more strange by the week.

--best regards

[rokpunk]

Obviously Len Moskowitz did



 

[Roger Gustavsson]

Roger G., the dates I gave were from a well-known chart published by Neumann (Berlin). I'm not surprised to see discrepancies between it and the dates given by Gefell, even assuming complete sincerity on everyone's part. The two companies just see things differently, and as long as each company presents its own story from its own viewpoint, I suspect that discrepancies will persist.

Neumann and Microtech Gefell are more or less the same company. 1943 Neumann moved from Berlin to Gefell. 1946 Neumann open a workshop in Berlin (West) mainly for repair of microphones. This workshop becomes the Georg Neumann GmbH, now owned by Sennheiser (since 1991). Erich Kühnast stayed in Gefell, in the Sovjet zone. These two companies worked together until 1961, when the Berlin Wall was built and the border of GDR was closed completly. Neumann and Microtech Gefell should have the same history during 1928-1946, when Georg Neumann and Erich Kühnast worked together. I have not seen the document from Neumann you mention.

Roger Gustavsson

[John Willett]

John W., if an interference tube wouldn't alter the directionality of a microphone, what else would be the point of using one?

 

I don't understand what you are saying?  Of course an interference tube alters the directivity - that's the whole point of it.

I only mentioned it and the origin because you brought up the subject - I was just setting the record straight.

As I said, shotguns aren't the same as super- or hypercardioids. Sennheiser, Neumann, Schoeps and other manufacturers make microphones which are supercardioids and others which are shotguns; QED.

 A shotgun is the same as a super-cardioid in that the capsule of a shotgun is almost always a super-cardioid or hyper-cardioid.  The interference tube only works at higher frequencies and you need the super-cardioid capsule to get the directivity at low frequencies - it's only at the higher frequencies that the interference tube comes into effect and makes the microphone more directional.

But a shotgun mic. is mostly used in TV and film - a super-cardioid is more of a stage or recording mic.

[John Willett]

Neumann and Microtech Gefell are more or less the same company.

Were 

[Roger Gustavsson]

Neumann and Microtech Gefell are more or less the same company.

Were 

Yes, that is right. But we are talking about the period before the WW2. They were just one company then!

[Roger Gustavsson]

1932 seems to be the year of introduction of the first cardioid made by Neumann. The CM8 capsule for the CMV 3a "bottle". If this was the first ever, I do not know.

[DSatz]

> The interference tube gun microphone was invented by Sennheiser - and he got an Oscar for it (Technical Oscar 1987)

Hi, John. I've been meaning to reply here for some time. Just two things that I can see about this statement are possibly a bit off:

(1) The "interference tube gun microphone," as you call it, was invented neither by Sennheiser nor even at Sennheiser. It was invented by Kurtze, Tamm and Griese, patented by them (see the attached), and the rights were then bought by Sennheiser.

(2) The 1986 technical Oscar was awarded to Prof. Sennheiser for a particularly successful implementation--the MKH 816--but not for the shotgun microphone in general. You can readily confirm this by doing a Google search on your own company's Web site (e.g. with the search terms "oscar site:www.sennheiser.com").

Scientific and technical Oscars are like that. Unlike patents, they're awarded for specific products or services rather than for the ideas behind those products. www.oscars.org/scitech has a comprehensive listing of them.
 
--best regards

[Tim]

Obviously Len Moskowitz did



 

that's damn funny

[heath]

Actually, it was Bean.

[boojum]

I thought Bean invented smileys.       

[landshark]

Nope, it was Bean <grin>

[aegert]

Whats a microphone?


A

[Church-Audio]

I have to be honest here. I invented it, it was around the time I invented the blow up doll.
 

[aegert]

So you are the guy I pray to!

ROFL
A