Topic: Edirol may be off the hook after all!

[wbrisette]

I have been trying to get some additional information from several sources about the R-1. While some of this isn't good news, things promise to shape up...

here is an email I got from edirol today. He didn't answer my question regarding CF Microdrives, but it's a start. I'm still pushing the wife for a refurbished Deva II unit (5K).

BTW, here is some additional pricing thoughts for folks:

R-1 : $550
2 GB CF : $170+

You'll need two cards, so you're starting to push the 1K mark. Unless 2 GB flash memory comes down in price, this unit is pretty expensive for the taping community when you add in memory.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Hi Wayne,

The AC adapter that comes with the R-1 puts out 3 V @ 1 A.
The Microphone level control is an analog wheel control, so you can adjust
it as quickly/slowly/often as you like.

As for the digital input, watch for another Edirol Portable Digital Recorder
meant for the more pro user.
Kindly,

Chris Douglass
LEAD PRODUCT SPECIALIST



EDIROL - Music Technology Innovators



-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Brissette
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 3:20 AM
To: sales@edirol.com
Subject: R-1 Question

Will the R-1 support the 2GB microdrives, or is a non-HD CF card required?

There are a number of things left out of the marketing info, such as:

1) DCV input. What is the DC input required.
2) Can you change recording levels "on-the-fly"? One of the issues that
has plagued the MiniDisc makers.

Lastly, while not really a marketing issue, but why no Digital input?
seems like a great unit that missed it by "that much"...


Thanks,

Wayne Brissette

[fozzy]

As for the digital input, watch for another Edirol Portable Digital Recorder
meant for the more pro user.

mmmm

[timP]

maybe a UA5 with a hard drive?

[1st set only]

maybe a UA5 with a hard drive?

why not? they could do it!

[C.Clark]

maybe a UA5 with a hard drive?

looks like something along those those lines, but maybe an r-1 type of unit
with spdf coax, lightpipe and aes, that would be nice

-edit to add maybe their second usb2 venture or firewire possibly?

[John Kelly]

As for the digital input, watch for another Edirol Portable Digital Recorder
meant for the more pro user.

mmmm

As much as I'd love this, it's Edirol.  Which means not bit perfect.

[Ed.]

maybe when they say "more pro user" it'll be "more bit perfect"

[John Kelly]

maybe when they say "more pro user" it'll be "more bit perfect"

You would hope, but that's not what their track record says will happen.

[Tenn Man]

As for the digital input, watch for another Edirol Portable Digital Recorder
meant for the more pro user.

Is this in the near future or some time off?

[greenone]

As much as I'd love this, it's Edirol.  Which means not bit perfect.

But there's no throughput like a UA-1D or a UA-5 - it'd just be writing to the media, whatever it is...would that make a difference?

"more bit perfect"

Is that like "more pregnant" or "more dead"?

[wbrisette]

Is this in the near future or some time off?

What you see is all I got. I did get the answer on the CF hard drives though. Turns out you can't use them due to power requirements.

Wayne

[wbrisette]

But there's no throughput like a UA-1D or a UA-5 - it'd just be writing to the media, whatever it is...would that make a difference?

Sure there is. The headphone jack doubles as an optical output. Not ideal, but it's a workable solution.

Wayne

[Ed.]

"more bit perfect"

Is that like "more pregnant" or "more dead"?

exactly like that

[Rick]

To bad its not cheaper. Might be a good DAT replacement, if you wanted to go line-in. Batter life could be a problem.

Can you only do 24bit with this thing?

[John Kelly]

R-1 : $550
2 GB CF : $170+

FYI, 2GB CF cards can be had for around $120 now.

[wbrisette]

FYI, 2GB CF cards can be had for around $120 now.

Not sure where... I did some pretty extensive checking and while there may be one or two places around with them at $120, almost everybody had them at $150 or more. That's why I chose the $170 mark for the comparison. It's the media that I think really kills this unit as a backup. Figure street price on this unit at around $450, even with cards at $120, that puts the unit in the $700 range for us. Now, nobody says you have to have 2 cards, but I certainly wouldn't attempt a whole lot without at least 2 cards (possibly 3). When you start looking at the price of something like the 722, I can certainly see people spending double and getting the 722 (I've made the decision to hold out on a "cheap" backup, now I just have to decide if I want to test the wait and go with the 744, or get the Deva II now — both are priced about the same.

Wayne

Wayne

[greenone]

But there's no throughput like a UA-1D or a UA-5 - it'd just be writing to the media, whatever it is...would that make a difference?

Sure there is. The headphone jack doubles as an optical output. Not ideal, but it's a workable solution.

Sorry, I think I underquoted. I was replying to John's assertion that the as-of-yet unreleased "pro model" wouldn't be bit-perfect and wondering how a recorder with a digital in can't be bit-perfect, since whatever's coming in is being written directly to the media.

Of course, now the extensive JB3/Gmini/iRiver testing reminds me that it's eminently possible to have a non-bit-perfect recorder... The lesson, as always: I'm an idiot.

[Kelso]

you can go 16 bit, but only 44.1.
Except if you absolutely want the 24 bit, this is a good jb3 replacement as a standalone: it has no digital in, but a little mic preamp with analog gain and some kind of phantom power (don't think it's real 48v). If the preamp and the converter are decent, I'll definitely buy it.

[John Kelly]

you can go 16 bit, but only 44.1.
Except if you absolutely want the 24 bit, this is a good jb3 replacement as a standalone: it has no digital in, but a little mic preamp with analog gain and some kind of phantom power (don't think it's real 48v). If the preamp and the converter are decent, I'll definitely buy it.

It provides plugin power (i.e. battery power).  I wouldn't put it above the JB3 at all, except maybe for size.

[Rick]

you can go 16 bit, but only 44.1.
Except if you absolutely want the 24 bit, this is a good jb3 replacement as a standalone: it has no digital in, but a little mic preamp with analog gain and some kind of phantom power (don't think it's real 48v). If the preamp and the converter are decent, I'll definitely buy it.

It provides plugin power (i.e. battery power).  I wouldn't put it above the JB3 at all, except maybe for size.

I would assume the A/D on the the edirol is better then the JB3, since it was made for this kind of thing. But for the price and the size of the HD I think the JB3 is the way to go if you can still find one. 

[Kelso]

I said if the preamp and the converter are decent. The jb3 doesn't have a mic pre.
This product is meant to be used standalone (no digi in...) and if you add a preamp, you would you would just have the 24 bit benefit over the jb3, with drawbacks.
This is for now the only recorder of its size to do uncompressed recording directly from a mike with analog gain. I'm waiting to now the full specs: preamp noise floor and maximum gain. I know it won't be outstanding but maybe it will be enough.
Also waiting to know the more pro product. I guess it will be a dual xlr preamp with phantom, digi in and out, and maybe a hard drive or the capability to use one. Hope it won't be more than twice the price and it won't be the size of the fr-2.
for now I can't even afford this one.

[John Kelly]

I said if the preamp and the converter are decent. The jb3 doesn't have a mic pre.
This product is meant to be used standalone (no digi in...) and if you add a preamp, you would you would just have the 24 bit benefit over the jb3, with drawbacks.
This is for now the only recorder of its size to do uncompressed recording directly from a mike with analog gain. I'm waiting to now the full specs: preamp noise floor and maximum gain. I know it won't be outstanding but maybe it will be enough.
Also waiting to know the more pro product. I guess it will be a dual xlr preamp with phantom, digi in and out, and maybe a hard drive or the capability to use one. Hope it won't be more than twice the price and it won't be the size of the fr-2.
for now I can't even afford this one.

Actually the JB3 does offer plugin power for microphones (which is the same thing the edirol unit is offering).  So in fact the only thing this has over the jb3 is 24 bit (but who cares at 44.1) and size.  The jb3 has a bit perfect digital input, which automatically puts it ahead of this unit.

[dklein]

[Actually the JB3 does offer plugin power for microphones

I don't think so - are you sure about this?

[John Kelly]

[Actually the JB3 does offer plugin power for microphones

I don't think so - are you sure about this?

Not 100%, no.  I sold my sp mics so I can't really test it.  But it provides a mic in and I was pretty sure some people were running just mics > jb3...

[HeliBass]

Do the Hard disc recorders (JB3, I River, etc) suffer from the same vibration problems that Mini disc recorders have? ie: if they are bumped or vibrated during recording they put anomolies like static and drop outs in the recording?

If so it seems like the Edirol unit would be much more stable in stealth environment.

Thoughts?

[John Kelly]

Do the Hard disc recorders (JB3, I River, etc) suffer from the same vibration problems that Mini disc recorders have? ie: if they are bumped or vibrated during recording they put anomolies like static and drop outs in the recording?

If so it seems like the Edirol unit would be much more stable in stealth environment.

Thoughts?

It's still a moving media - the hard drives are constantly spinning.  I don't know if they add static, but if jostled enough you could definitely get some errors.

Only solid state recorders (ones that record to flash memory) are immune to this.

[Brian Skalinder]

Do the Hard disc recorders (JB3, I River, etc) suffer from the same vibration problems that Mini disc recorders have? ie: if they are bumped or vibrated during recording they put anomolies like static and drop outs in the recording?

I don't have any problems with my JB3, but then again I don't kick my bag around while I'm taping (and for stealth I use my D100).

[SparkE!]

[Actually the JB3 does offer plugin power for microphones

I don't think so - are you sure about this?

Not 100%, no.  I sold my sp mics so I can't really test it.  But it provides a mic in and I was pretty sure some people were running just mics > jb3...

The NJB3 does NOT provide plugin power for microphones.  If your mics require a bias voltage, that bias voltage must come from some other device like a battery box.

[Kelso]

anyway I don't think you can record directly from a mike with the jb3 (and if so with what results?). The fact here is the presence of an analog gain fader, which is something you couldn't find in this price range. I'm not sure this can give good results standalone (I hope so),plus you can't plug statics in here, just electret powered or dynamic. And I don't know any kind of mic using this plugin power (2V). I was thinking using it with a stereo AT822