Topic: Shotgun mics

[wbrisette]

Recently I purchased two shotgun mics, neither for music work, but I thought for kicks and grins I would run both and see what I thought.

First up is the Neumann KMR 82i, this is a long shotgun. I played with it with just voices and it does exactly what it is suppose to. Picks up the speaker it is pointed to with little bleed from peripheral sounds. If you have a need for a long shotgun for vocals, this seems to be a great option. I bought it used and even used it was pretty hefty on the price tag.

Next, I picked up a Rode NTG-1. This is a short shotgun which could be camera mounted if needed. I picked this up new off eBay for just under $200. I chose this mic after asking a few sound mixers I know about some short guns. They all agreed this was a pretty good mic. I have to agree with them so far. It does tend to pick up a bit more of the peripheral sounds, but from what I understand, most short guns do.

So, since I tried both for music and this is a music board (primarily), I thought I would give my thoughts on both when used for music. While the Neumann certain has the reputation over Rode, The sound quality for music (not voice only) is better on the Rode. This is a very unnatural bump in the mids when using the Neumann. Actually I suspect it's not so much a bump as the bottom end is not a pronounced and the top end is boosted a bit. These are mics designed for on-location sound, and not music, so it makes sense. The Rode has a much more natural sound when doing music. I would not hesitate putting the NTG-1 on a camera and just using that mic. You're not going to get world class sound, but it is leagues ahead of the built-in mic. However, beware. The NTG-1 does require phantom power, if your camera can't supply that, you're better off with the NTG-2, which can run off AA batteries. The NTG-1 & NTG-2 are suppose to be the same mic, one simply can run off AA's or with phantom, the other requires phantom all the time.

I can't slag Neumann, it really wasn't designed for what I was doing, and there are certainly times you need a long shotgun, but you have to be ready with additional support (it's nearly 15-in long) when you run it, and I wouldn't run this on a camera by itself unless it was voice only work.

Overall, I think the Rode NTG-1 can be used for music, but still shotgun mics have limited use in the music side of things. If the goal is to narrow the audio field to avoid peripheral noises, you're probably going to be better served by hyper-cardiods. However, if you want a simply solution for mounting on a camera and shooting video and audio at the same time, the NTG-1 or NTG-2 is certainly worth a look.

Wayne

[John Willett]

The Neumann KM 82i is a long gun.

The bass rolls off below 100Hz to minimise the effects of wind and handling noise outdoors - the treble is raised between 2kHz and 20kHz, peaking at about +8dB at 7.5kHz - this is for clarity.

[wbrisette]

The bass rolls off below 100Hz to minimise the effects of wind and handling noise outdoors - the treble is raised between 2kHz and 20kHz, peaking at about +8dB at 7.5kHz - this is for clarity.

John-

I understand this, which is why I explained up front that what I was using it for really wasn't what it was designed for. Again, if you're doing voice only, this (KMR 82i) is a great mic. But it has limited, very limited, uses for what most people on this board are doing. But, I figured since I ran some tests, it wouldn't hurt to give my opinion of the two mics.

Wayne

[John Willett]

Yup - I understand this - I was just giving the figures.

I have now looked more closely at the reasoning...

The boost in the KM 82i between 2kHz and 15kHz is to compensate for HF transmission loss when recording distant sound sources.

There is a switch on the mic. to defeat this when it is being used closer.

[oleg]

the upper boost has 2 differnt positions and it come to compinsate  distance picking or zeppelin wind protection .
the neuman sound very good for what is it , it is not sonerrow pick up as 816 or even mkh-70 which i think is better sounding long shotgun .
the rody is nice for the price , really dont come close to neuman 81 or akg  or sanken cs-3 for the clarity , vert wide pick uppatern , quit muffi not enouth clarity in the mids .
i use it as camera mic only there it do does nice job , but there is almost mic will do the same .
it has almost indentical brother ntg-2 which could be also powered by battries for these who dont jhve 48 pantom but it degrde its audio acoustc preformers as the mic is electret mic and difernt voltage to the capsule change it characteristics .with 48 it preforms exactly as the ntg-1 .
the 81 is nice but has very low output what is a big deal with some preamps where you need push it to the limits pick up the dialog of somemambling actor , so for me it is only working on small ocasions , usially the sankens as they regect side as no other mics and if not i pull the 816 so my booman will know who is the boss .the 82 its there its nice its not really find it place in my kit .

[dointhatrag]

I use the KMR81 as a center piece to my CMXY4V.

Depending on my location I will run either 50/50 or 70/30  (more shotgun)

I love the Neumann shotgun!

[Javier Cinakowski]

I own the AT943 microlines.  (electrets...)   They have a 90degree pickup pattern.  These mics have a flatter response than the hypers and the same bass response as the cards.  I was blown away by how they reject audience, but still sound natural, and pick some ambient room info... 

These may not compare to Neuman, Rode, or Sennheiser, but they do sound really, really, good....

[kgreener]

I own the AT943 microlines.  (electrets...)   They have a 90degree pickup pattern.  These mics have a flatter response than the hypers and the same bass response as the cards.  I was blown away by how they reject audience, but still sound natural, and pick some ambient room info... 

These may not compare to Neuman, Rode, or Sennheiser, but they do sound really, really, good....

Interesting.  I've been interested in these but have never heard them.  Got any samples you can point us to? 

+T

EDIT: my bad, I was thinking of the new Unipoint/Uniline series from AT (U853RU)

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/553e9e08a6f933e0/index.html

[joekar]

I own the AT943 microlines.  (electrets...)   They have a 90degree pickup pattern.  These mics have a flatter response than the hypers and the same bass response as the cards.  I was blown away by how they reject audience, but still sound natural, and pick some ambient room info... 

These may not compare to Neuman, Rode, or Sennheiser, but they do sound really, really, good....

Interesting.  I've been interested in these but have never heard them.  Got any samples you can point us to? 

+T

Are you using the adapter to screw these elements onto the 943 bodies ?...Or do they only fit the 943's?   Thanks

Peace,
jk

[Javier Cinakowski]

There is a uniline that fits the 853 and the is a ES microline that fits the 943.  Here is a sample, but this room sounds like crap and there were no subs just a shitty 12" pa, so this does not give a good representation of the bass these can pull.  I taped MMW+Scofield with these and the bass is fantastic.  I will try to get a sampsle of that up soon...

http://www.treespine.com/rig/rig_files/gmob2006-06-21d2t02.mp3   (grinning mob)

[joekar]

Sounds pretty good....Thanks.......I'll have to pick up a pair of these .....Might as well collect them all.

T+
Peace,
jk

[easy jim]

For recording music off a PA system from a distance, I think the few best shotguns go in roughly this order (personal preference, of course).  They are all 'short' shotguns.

1. AKG 568s
2. AKG ck8s + 460 or 45x bodies
3. Neumann KMR81

[china_rider]

I should have my AKG CK69s any day now... I can't wait to try them.  Going to use them at a few festivals and see how I like them.  I've only been able to find a few sources that have run them.  Mostly Kimmok.  What I've heard sounds good though.  I got a great deal and should be easily able to sell them for more than I paid if I don't like the sound.

Anyone here have experience with them?  My friend I'm buying them from scanned the docs that came with them and they mentioned in long gun config range is as close as 24 feet.  I was buying them for festivals, but if they work well at 24' I can probably use them at at least one of our local indoor venues. 

[easy jim]

I should have my AKG CK69s any day now... I can't wait to try them.  Going to use them at a few festivals and see how I like them.  I've only been able to find a few sources that have run them.  Mostly Kimmok.  What I've heard sounds good though.  I got a great deal and should be easily able to sell them for more than I paid if I don't like the sound.

Anyone here have experience with them?  My friend I'm buying them from scanned the docs that came with them and they mentioned in long gun config range is as close as 24 feet.  I was buying them for festivals, but if they work well at 24' I can probably use them at at least one of our local indoor venues. 

I've patched out of some 460/ck69s a couple times in the mid-90s Phish days before a lot of the older generation GD tapers started dropping out of the scene.  I liked them and thought they sounded nice, however the low end tends to be very thin with a significant mid/high emphasis.  I'm guessing you'll end up liking them best for outdoor use in a 3-mic config. with one of your ADKs (card or omni) in the middle to help fill in the low end of the frequency range.  With long guns, you will also have to be very mindful of your aim (at the stacks) as well as the rear lobe which will pick up a lot from directly behind the mics.

[china_rider]

Thats exactly what I was planning on doing.  Either ADK Omni or maybe borrow another 480 body and put the omni on that.  Or maybe both and record MonoX4 with the R4 and see what I like best. :-}