Topic: Analog Vs. Digital

[Jimna]

this is good!
Analog Vs Digital


and article on the death of dynamic range on CD's over time.

the graphs in that article tell the story of how poor mastering and record company loudness wars are killing music

edit to add:  notice links in both sentences above.  cant see them since the new version this site is running make links the same color as text.

[unclelouie]

thanks for the link it was quite good but...

Since they only specify that it's a "analog console" vs. a "digital [console]" Can't we safely assume that they're hearing an uncompressed PCM during the analog/digital test? I mean, hell, on a good system I can hear the difference between 16-bit PCM and mp3 almost 100% of the time, so if these engineers and musicians are only choosing correctly 54% of the time, I'm forced to believe they're listening to uncompressed audio recorded at very high sampling and bit-rates (which is expected in a rec.studio), or using crappy equipment (which is not to be expected in a rec.studio).

Since the whole story is about the quality, and future, of mp3, I'm thinking that the test doesn't mean squat in that debate. It does, however, validate the fidelity of digital media at high sampling and bit-rates.

[Nick's Picks]

eventually there will be some form of compression breakthrough...., its the trend.  then nobody will be able to tell anything.

[Jimna]

certainly is a shitload or R&D going into digital perfection.

[unclelouie]

eventually there will be some form of compression breakthrough...., its the trend.  then nobody will be able to tell anything.

Yes. FLAC is a good example.

I'm actually surprised that FLAC hasn't become more mainstream, but then again the masses seem to want portability over fidelity. So sad for them 

[stevetoney]

...the masses seem to want portability over fidelity.  So sad for them 

Not at all!  The two are apples and oranges and both are completely justified for their separate uses and applications, IMHO.

The ability to carry my entire music collection with me wherever I go is simply a stunning addition to the quality of my personal lifestyle...my ipod is perhaps the single most important lifestyle and enjoyment device that I've ever purchased.  I'm listening to music that I tucked away decades ago and haven't heard since that time simply because my ipod holds the music and I happen to have it with me when the urge to hear it strikes.  Never happened before I got my ipod.

Granted, when fidelity is called for, MP3 files are the very last place anyone should turn, but I think the good quality compression used in itunes is perfect for what it's used for.  Besides, most of the time when I'm listening through my ipod, it's less than perfect listening conditions anyway (in the car, in public, outside in the wind, etc) so tip-top fidelity isn't necessary because it wouldn't be heard anyway. 

[ducati]

I think analog vs digital is pure preference.  Personally, I listen to very few LP's nowadays.  Digital is so good, circa 2010, that I consider LP "dead."In fact, I considered it offcially "dead" in 2007 when I compared 2 high end turntables (one around $8k, the other $22k) to a $10k digital front end... And preferred the digital.    Back in '03 when I first starting taping 24 bit, I found only one DAC that could derive real benefit from high bitrate...  dCS.    Now, you can get that, and smooth, natural sound, for a fraction of $10k.

I have a friend who completely disagrees, and has about $15k invested in his vinyl front end.  S'ok with me.

That said, the second link posted is by far the most important of the two.  Compression in terms of dynamic range is a completely different thing from lossy audio compression (which I am sure you are aware).  And far more serious, as this means that ANY source, high bitrate, DSD, 16/44, MP3...  Will all sound equally crappy.  For me, this manufests itself in "tiring" listening and a lack of natural feel to a recording.

For kicks, try picking up your SPL meter someday while you have a conversation with someone--just talking is at least 15db in dynamic range.  Now imagine a whole CD reduced to 3-6db...  No wonder it sounds unnatural.

Pierre Sprey from Mapleshade knows how to make a great recording, and uses far less compression than most anyone else in the industry.  Too bad the music is often so-so...

[Jimna]

i need to pick up a SPL meter, its on my list.

FWIW, all you iphone peoples can by an app for it that gives you a fairly accurate SPL meter.  ive seen the test results and it did as good or better than a radioshack meter.

[Tim]

i need to pick up a SPL meter, its on my list.

FWIW, all you iphone peoples can by an app for it that gives you a fairly accurate SPL meter.  ive seen the test results and it did as good or better than a radioshack meter.

yep, the iphone apps seem to be well regarded by the pros. I have an spl meter and RTA on my phone.

[Nick's Picks]

iphone app for spl meetering, I love it.

Compression of the dynamic range ..., this is something that I had little experience in until I started getting into live sound..where its a necessary evil.  When done right, it really tightens up the over all sound and presentation.

[Tim]

for the record I use the apps by 'Studio Six Digital' and those are the ones that have gotten the best reviews. If you dig around on google there's some discussion about using the iphone 3g and 3gs internal mic and it seems to be a-okay to use for these apps. Apparently the original iphone had a different mic and some software issues that made it less than ideal.

I use my apps in my basement listening room when I'm tweaking speaker setup and the like.

[Gutbucket]

It would be handy to have an SPL meter & RTA on your phone in the section at a concert.  I've taken a ratshack meter a few times, mostly to satisfy my own curiosity, to determine how close I was to the THD threshold of sensitive mics, and to figure how dangerous the levels would have been to my hearing if I wasn't plugged, but pulling out an SPL meter at a show is pushing a bit too far across the boundaries of uber-geekdom.

[Tim]

pulling out an SPL meter at a show is pushing a bit too far across the boundaries of uber-geekdom.

I use the one on my phone at shows all the time. the ladies love it

[Gutbucket]

pulling out an SPL meter at a show is pushing a bit too far across the boundaries of uber-geekdom.

I use the one on my phone at shows all the time. the ladies love it

Almost anything can be cool if it's on a phone.  Haul in an analog ocilloscope next time and see how the ladies react. 

[ducati]

I haven't tried a SPL app that costs $$ yet, but I've used the free SPL meter that comes with the Ultimate Ears free app download...  Seems to work OK although the curve is different than the RS meter (which is published and easy to compensate for).

Does anyone know if corrections are posted for iPhone SPL meters anywhere?  It would make it more helpful for speaker placement/bass tuning.  For now, I use my trusty Rat Shack meter for that.

iPhones rock. 

[utahtaper]

Very interesting stuff. It was an unexpected surprise to see Andrews and Albini as the spokesmen. Too bad Andrews pretty much stays in the studio. I still find the band Failure as an all time classic indie band.