Topic: Magneplanar Magnepan SMGa Ribbon Speaker ??

[hzgone]

Anyone know anything about the above.  Good, bad what?

[Tim]

No personal experience but I don't think they make a bad speaker, hard to go wrong with magenapan
They are finicky about their amplication from everything that I read so make sure you have a high current amp

[Brian Skalinder]

Not familiar with the SMGa specifically.  Looks like these were entry-level or lower-end Maggies back when they were sold new (till 1996, I think).

I enjoyed my MMGs a great deal.  They provided a fairly small sweet spot (okay with me, since I'm the only one in my household who cares about such things), performed best with some space behind them, and needed an amp capable of handling the 4-ohm impedance.  Really enjoyed their sound:  very life-like, great detail, superb imaging.

Here's an AudioCircle thread you might find useful if you're buying older / used Maggies (and specifically SMGa):

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=67423.0

[Todd R]

What Brian said (mainly):

I had MMG's and enjoyed them quite a bit.  Immense soundstage, fantastic imaging.  Their boxless presentation was really quite amazing.  To me though, I didn't find them particularly detailed, esp on the high-end, details were a bit soft.

When I owned them, I had them in a high-ceilinged, large, hard-wood floored living room that was fairly live.  The MMGs sounded great in there.  Once I moved my main listening setup to a downstairs, lower ceiling, carpeted rec room (still on the large side), I didn't like them nearly as much -- I just didn't find enough high-end detail for my tastes.

All that said, Maggies are great speakers.  IME though, electrostatics have a bit of a particular sound that some may love, and some may not.

[Jimna]

IME though, electrostatics have a bit of a particular sound that some may love, and some may not.

that is very true.  it comes to taste.  either love em or hate em.  i will say i dont know about these speakers but IME most stats are super detailed and airy, with a light bottom end.  add a sub and IMO they are heaven.  i want a set of full panel Logans so bad!

[hzgone]

Thanks for the info, i read a few posts about adding a sub with these.  I'm thinking about trying to pick some up 150.00 doesn't sound to bad to me what do you think?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

it comes to taste.  either love em or hate em.  i will say i dont know about these speakers but IME most stats are super detailed and airy, with a light bottom end.  add a sub and IMO they are heaven.  i want a set of full panel Logans so bad!

I bought my CLS's back around '88... Their detail and transparency ruined me for so many other speakers.  I never added a sub.  It takes a very good one to not be muddy. With some amusement, I'm on the VR4 bandwagon now (though they're in storage right now, and that just kills).

I still have the CLS's, and need to find a good home for them.

[Jimna]

original panels?  i love the CLS for a ton of reasons, i really want a set, but a set of spires would be ok too.  martin logans are the bomb!   i have read any set that old will require a new set of panels which i looked into and would run about 1500$.   still worth it for a world class hifi speaker that cost 5x that new.


sorry for the thread hi-jack.  maggies rock too.


PS. ML has announced they are to realease 2 new speakers at CES this week. 

[phanophish]

Not familiar with the SMGa specifically.  Looks like these were entry-level or lower-end Maggies back when they were sold new (till 1996, I think).

I enjoyed my MMGs a great deal.  They provided a fairly small sweet spot (okay with me, since I'm the only one in my household who cares about such things), performed best with some space behind them, and needed an amp capable of handling the 4-ohm impedance.  Really enjoyed their sound:  very life-like, great detail, superb imaging.

Here's an AudioCircle thread you might find useful if you're buying older / used Maggies (and specifically SMGa):

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=67423.0

I still run MMGs as my mains.  Like them very much.  I agree with everything Brian says.  The sweet spot is small, but it is very sweet.  You definitely need a quality high current amp, particularly for anything above low to moderate volume levels. 

[Todd R]

Assuming they're in good condition, for $150 I would definitely go for it.  At the very least, you could get some experience with with e-statics and decide what you think.

I def enjoyed my MMG's.  Everyone talking about how much detail e-statics have has me wondering.  Hard for me to vividly remember the subtleties in sound of what I ran 6 years ago.  Perhaps lack of detail isn't the right term -- more like a more subtle attack?  I remember them being more laid back and less aggressive.

All this talk makes me miss my maggies, but I just ordered a pair of Monitor Audio RS6's, so I'm sure I'll get over it.

[hzgone]

cool thanks for all the info.  I think i'm going to pick them up.

[Gutbucket]

I'm no expert, but Maggies aren't electrostatics, are they?

Of course they share the same shape, large-area/small-displacement diaphram, and dipole nature as 'stats, so set-up should be similar, but as I understand it they work similar to a quasi-ribbon driver: signal current passed though circuit traces printed on the membrane suspended between magnets.  No transformers or power supply to charge high voltage plates like 'stats require.  Probably less problems with humidity I'd guess.

Technical sidebar-
Dynamic mics are to cone speakers like condenser mics are to electrostats like ribbon mics are to ribbon speakers. Maggies and ribbons would technically be in the dynamic family as they use a form of dynamic motor, but the motor is distibuted across the surface of the pannel or lentgh of the ribbon rather than in the form of a central coil & magnet.  The only close microphone analog I know of to the Magnapan style speaker and other similar drivers like the older Infinity EMITs are the rather rare Fostex 'printed ribbon' mics.

I've never had a good chance to listen to a pair of Magnapans, but have always wanted to.  Especially since 'stats often take issue with the hummidity here in FL.

[Craig T]

Everybody should try electrostatics (or quasi-) at least once.  Very unique sonic quality.  I had MMG's for a few years and loved them.  In the end, it was their very small sweet spot (and a very good deal on a pair of VR4's) that caused me to sell them.  I ran stereo subs with the MMG's to give more low end authority.

[Nick's Picks]

I've had several pairs of maggies over the years.  MMGs, SMGa (pre-curseur to the MMG), and a HUGE 6' pair of 2.6R's (not too long ago).
The maggie to have is the 1.6R.  they've come down a lot in price these days.., IMO, they offer the most maggie bang for the buck.

True true, Maggies are Plannar speakers, not electrostatic.  with electrostats, you actually have to plug the speakers into the wall to provide the charge to the metal on each side of the mylar film (diaphragm), which is how that magic works.

Im and ML fan ..., true and true.  I've had several pairs of those too, and prefer them over the maggies just because you dont really need a sub w/the hybrids like ML's that have a Xover that sends proper signals to their enclosed whoofer.

some tips for MMG owners...take w/a pinch of salt as these were my findings over the course of the last 10 years of lisltening and in several different rooms where I was setting up my stereo...

1. build / buy some new stands so that you can elevate them a tiny bit..., like 10" or so off the floor.  BIG difference.
2. keep them straight, not "laid back"..., you'll get a much more solid presentation.
3. AT MINIMUM....50wpc of Class A or AB power that can drive 4ohm load.  And thats just for little maggies.  you can dump a 100w + into them w/o issue.  Big maggies..., you'd want min of 100w.
4. if trying to blend a sub w/a pair of maggies...., I recommend a multi-driver sub as I find they tend to be a little "faster" in what they do compared to a single huge driver.   I'm a fan of multiple 8" drivers in a small sub (like the baby boomer from pinicle).
I used my Sony dual 10" driver sub.,...., and it blended very nicely (that was only a $200 ish sub whoofer...its all about how fast those big paper cones and move to keep up w/the wafer thin planar speaker.
5.  You'll never hear tubes sound so good as through a quality ESL or Planar.  Period.  But to drive them properlyl, you'll have to spend 5x as much on this said tube amp (think POWER) than you did on the maggies.

[Jimna]

im trying to lay a foundation for a set of ESL's now.  looking into an Emotiva XPA-2.  its 500wpc into 4ohms.  should handle a set of CLX's well, or any speaker for that matter.   my only concern is the taddle tail qualities of plannar/ESLs of their upstream electronics. 

the XPA-2 is a beast and is getting great reviews all round.  ive even found existing ML owner using it and compared it with a set of classe mono blocks!  anything thats in my price range that can comp with those is worth a try i think....and he was running a set of Odessy's so i trust his review.

i fell in love with a set of boxless speakers a while back and cant shake the desire for a set.  gotta do it.

[Gutbucket]

I was looking at something like the XPA-3 to power my front three B&W802s.  let me know if you give the Emotiva a go and what you think.

[Jimna]

I was looking at something like the XPA-3 to power my front three B&W802s.  let me know if you give the Emotiva a go and what you think.

i will, plenty of reviews are on the web though.  very few bad reviews on the entire XPA line in general, but the XPA-1 & 2 seem to get accolades from audiophiles using them in a reference application all round.   poor mans Cadillac?

[Tim]

my front three B&W802s. 

Nice rig.

[Gutbucket]

my front three B&W802s. 

Nice rig.

Workin' on it.  Got a great deal on these last year- one pair from a friend pairing down to live on a boat, and a second from a Craigs listing that needed a woofer replaced and a touch of solder to fix a broken crossover coil.  Still need to get the rest of the system and room in order but these smoke my old mid 80's Infinity towers.. I miss the EMIT tweeters sometimes (the quasi-planar fan in me?), but that's a minor quip in comparison.  Now I'd like to see what they'll do with some superior juice reserves, since everyone tells me that's when they really shine.  One step at a time..

[Tim]

keep us posted!

[utahtaper]

cool thanks for all the info.  I think i'm going to pick them up.

I was looking at those too. Here's the problem, you do know that one of the speakers is not working properly, correct? $150 sounds good but I would suspect that if you can't repair them yourself that it could easily become more expensive sending them in for repair than it would to just save a little more money and buy a set of them in working condition. Just my two cents but I called the guy as well and was thinking about buying them too but when those ADS L1290's popped up in the same classifieds I had to go for them instead.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

original panels?  i love the CLS for a ton of reasons, i really want a set, but a set of spires would be ok too.  martin logans are the bomb!   i have read any set that old will require a new set of panels which i looked into and would run about 1500$.   still worth it for a world class hifi speaker that cost 5x that new.

My original panels were defective and replaced under warranty.   However, I would strongly disagree that any old set would require new panels.  It just ain't so based on mine.  Are they as good as new?  No, but they aren't $2k either..

Everybody should try electrostatics (or quasi-) at least once.  Very unique sonic quality.  I had MMG's for a few years and loved them.  In the end, it was their very small sweet spot (and a very good deal on a pair of VR4's) that caused me to sell them.

That's a very funny coincidence!

[Scooter123]

I owned the Planars.  Very finicky speaker insofar as placement goes.  I've had them in some rooms and they sound great and other rooms and they sound weak.  Certainly a subtle, not a punchy JBL type speaker, often needs the assistance of subwoofer. 

I would ask to have them set up in your home as a precondition of buying them. 

Frankly, they were too finicky insofar as placement, for my tastes and I sold them to my roomate, who enjoys them to this day.  And in his set up they sound great.

I moved down to Vandersteen's with a Subwoofer. 

[Jimna]

the problem with properly setting up dipole speakers(which all none box style transducers are like ESL or Planar types) is the rear waves.  if not treated they can cause all sorts of phasing issues as they bounce off the front wall and cancel out the front wave depending on how close they are to the front.  most high end speakers are finicky to setup, even some box speakers, but are worth it in the end as they render high results.  but they certainly arent for everyone.

[Nick's Picks]

IMO, I wouldn't bother F'n around w/a broken pair of SMGa's for $150 when you can get nice used pair of MMGs (latest gen) for $250 all day long.
why screw around with "what if" speakers.

[Chilly Brioschi]

I agree with Nick

and if I was building from the ground up...
I'd get the biggest pair of Martin Logan hybrids I could and be done with it.

MLs are definitely my next purchase

[Nick's Picks]

I agree with Nick

and if I was building from the ground up...
I'd get the biggest pair of Martin Logan hybrids I could and be done with it.

MLs are definitely my next purchase

Q.F.T. !
the ML's to seek (SIZE MATTERS)
- Sequal I, II or SL3.   Can be found in the $600 > $1300 range  (all of which were precursors to the Ascent)
- Ascent, Ascenti :  in the $1800 > 2k range.  better bass response, redesigned cabinet and Xovers from the SL3.
- Quest, Quest Z, ReQuest : next size up from the ones above.  Was replaced by the Odyssey
- Odyssey, Prodigy ...., kick ass (but huge, heavy and pricey).

The newer models are way better than any of these, but these are all very, very high end ESL's that will absolutely floor any listener when in the right room, in the right spot, and w/the right power amp.

[Jimna]

damn do i want a full panel like the CLS.  first thing i do when i hit the lottery is by a set of CLX, i like the bubinga finish myself.

[Nick's Picks]

I"d be very happy w/a pair of the new Vantages (<$3k).  and a stud w/the Summit.

as for the list above, I've never owned any of the Quest line.  that is a huge panel, and prob a 12" whoofer, at min.
the sound-stage on something like that must be unreal.

the downside...is $$
You'll read time and again that panels (MLs in particularly, lots to read out there) are transparent, and really react with the rest of the gear upstream....and you can take that w/a grain of salt.  After all, it must be nice when you are a reviewer and have 4 or 5 $10k amps laying around to play with..., and that excludes the vast majority of us.

you can cheap it.... if you do your homework and a lot of leg work looking for the right used gear.  but big panels want big watts, and..in my experience,  they respond to various "quality of wattage" signals strongly.  I've had a few of the SL3/Sequal sized ML's and a lot of various amps.  class A, A-B, B, D, T..., ICEpower B&O based systems, Tubes and various Solid State.  It wasn't until I got into a pair of Odyssey Stratus Extreme mono blocks w/my last pair (Seq.IIs) that I really heard what they can do.   And I *thought* I had them dialed in w/previous amps ...., the Stratos's were sort of in another class, and those ML's really responded.  Like "BANG"...they wake up and you hear shit you never heard before.  An entire different dimension in the presentation, and the woofers will come alive big time.  Dramatic ! 
so..., my point is...if you (the reader) ends up w/a pair of panels and are underwhelmed..., look upstream.

[Jimna]

im very close to buying a XPA-2 which has 500w p/c @ 4ohm of class A/B juice, and once i do that ill look for a better pre/dac.  then after all that ill look for the panels i desire, but not before.  ive read a ton of reviews now with full panel ESL, hybrid legacy ESL's as well as the new line and all were favorable with this amp.  most have had much higher end amps before the XPA and still liked it.  i do think i might look for a tube pre just for that tubby toobiness in the mix. 

but i agree if i can find a set of spires or even vantages at a good price i would be perfectly happy.  other than a set of CLS or odyssey/prodigy's i dont think ill look at the legacy line though.  i want a speaker to live with for a long while and dont see that as such a given with the legacy line.  ill stick with the newer panels most likely.

just the thought makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.  i have issues.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

but i agree if i can find a set of spires or even vantages at a good price i would be perfectly happy.  other than a set of CLS or odyssey/prodigy's i dont think ill look at the legacy line though.  i want a speaker to live with for a long while and dont see that as such a given with the legacy line.  ill stick with the newer panels most likely.

There is a side of me that wonders about DIY panels for the CLS...  And in general, making CLS-like speakers from scratch....  In many respects, they are elegantly simple..

Though it should be said, open hardwood frames that won't warp after years of pressure is not trivial.