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Author Topic: playback-pr0n  (Read 58009 times)

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mfrench

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #165 on: October 05, 2012, 01:17:59 PM »
Here is a look into mid-50's HiFi speakers. General Electric A1-400 coaxial speakers in GE A1-406 cabinets (c. 1954/1955):


corner speaker design:









eBay sourced images below. I have not opened mine up this far yet:







The cabinets originally had legs, but they were removed prior to my possession; two were wide in the font, and the other two were narrower in the rear.  I intend to mount a new set of legs on them of likely 6" height.  I might offset the front from the rear to kick the speakers into an upward tilt, maybe?  Well see.
I'm thinking about 6" for the speakers and matching 4" legs on the mid-century console to even their height out to be level across the tops.

This is a discussion that I found archived at AudioAsylum regarding these speakers; interesting insights:

GE A1-400's
   •   Posted by Tubes n' Hornz (A) on August 9, 2003 at 09:59:47
I've got a pair of GE A1-400's in the original A1-406 cabinets from the early 1950's. Has anybody done anything with these speakers, as far as sound improvement, or should I leave well enough alone? Thanks - Steve


Re: GE A1-400's
   •   Posted by Bold Eagle (A) on August 9, 2003 at 20:31:12 In Reply to: GE A1-400's posted by Tubes n' Hornz on August 9, 2003 at 09:59:47:

I had one of these back in 1955. My first decent system using an Eico HF-20 with a Garrard RC-88 and a GE phono cart.
I'd leave them alone and enjoy them for a piece of history. When I had mine, I tried various "improvements" and all I did was degrade them. My opinion of them is that they were exceptionally well engineered. I just didn't realize it in time.
The closed back tweeter crossed over at 1500 Hz, and had a dispersion screen over the tweeter similar to the ones used by Kloss on the KLH 6 and later KLH 17. The tweeter also has an extended pole piece to act as a "phase plug". Crossover is first order electrical to the tweeter, but probably 3rd order acoustic. Very well matched to the woofer, so there is no dip or bump at the crossover.
The woofer has a slotted sheetmetal plate over the front which acts as a mounting for the tweeter, an acoustic resistance for the woofer cone, an acoustical low pass filter, and a dispersion device (acoustic lens) to get broader dispersion at crossover. Bolting the tweeter to the plate and mounting the plate to the woofer frame nicely damps out all resonances in the plate. The tweeter also acts as a "phase plug" for the woofer output. The later A1-401 was the same except the plate was painted gold instead of brown.
Back in the mid 50's the hallmarks of fine quality speakers was massive magnets, cast aluminum frames, and huge voice coils. The GE had none of these, so I looked down on it. (we still make mistakes like that) The ignorance and consumerism of a teenager. It was only later I learned about matching the magnetic circuit to the mass of the cone and the enclosure type. The magnet on the A1-400 was just the right size for the design, the stamped steel frame was more than stiff enough, and the 1.5" VC was big enough; and the "distributed port" enclosure gives just the right Q in the bass.
I had my speaker out on a glassed in sun porch. I can remember playing an RCA recording of Jose' Iturbi, the pianist, with the windows open. People passing by on the sidewalk would stop and look for the piano player inside. The A1-400 had one of the best piano sounds I ever had. It also was on most lists of "best buys" in that era.
I tried removing the sheetmetal front plate and mounting the tweeter separately, I tried a midrange, I tried a more sophisticated crossover, and I tried a bunch of different enclosure types. All were steps backward.
Proper feeding for those is a tube amp with a DF of around 6-10. Higher Damping Factors will result in the bass tailing off a bit.
Jerry


Re: GE A1-400's
   •   Posted by orthophonic (A) on August 9, 2003 at 23:41:35 In Reply to: Re: GE A1-400's posted by Bold Eagle on August 9, 2003 at 20:31:12:

Agree 100% with Bold Eagle. I have 3 sets of these (
unfortunately I have never been able to locate the
GE factory cabinets, I have the plans, but am lousy at
woodworking!). They are very nice speakers, very detailed,
and exceptionally smooth & sweet. Some people damp
the cone basket, but I haven't tried that, they sound
very good as is. I actually prefer them to the Altec 604.
Paul


Re: GE A1-400's
   •   Posted by Tubes n' Hornz (A) on August 10, 2003 at 05:57:51 In Reply to: Re: GE A1-400's posted by orthophonic on August 9, 2003 at 23:41:35:

Jerry/Paul - thanks a bunch for the info. I shall leave well enough alone. Will be hooking these up to a pair of W4-MA's or my EL34 amp. Will find out which give me what I'm looking for. Steve

« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 03:19:11 PM by m0k3 »

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #166 on: October 05, 2012, 02:09:09 PM »
Nice size room.  Looks great, cool to see all those great old pieces of lovingly modified gear in the same space - and it must feel good to get it all together and be able to spin discs in comfort again.

Those GEs cabinets look just like larger versions of some old Warfdales I have that were my grandfathers.  Totally different drivers of course, not coaxial, but the same basic shape with the truncated rear corners.  The've become termite ridden and need to go, still sitting out in the shed only because I might yank the drivers out.  I should look into some of those Ikea shelves..

Thanks for the photos and the update, Enjoy it!
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mfrench

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #167 on: October 05, 2012, 08:54:03 PM »
Thanks, Lee!
The Ikea shelves are a really well thought out design.  Good vertical load handling capability.  There is no way that you could build shelves for what they ask for them.  And all the components fit precisely.  It was a snap to assemble them.

A friend of mine is into these old speakers, and he suggested that the GE cabinets look just like the old Electrovoice cabinets of the same era.  I don't know, its a new thing for me.
It looks like a trip is in store for tomorrow, to where I can get a new set of legs for the speakers. I think they'll look really nice up off the ground, and presumably sound better as well, in getting the tweets up closer to ear height.

Your Wharfdales,....  they seem to be a well respected vintage speaker.  It would probably be worth it to pull the speakers out of the cabinets (if they're shot, bug eaten).  I've seen some of the turntable restoring crew do some really neat things with these old speakers.
Check this thread out. There are some amazing old speakers in it:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=351417

Offline audBall

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #168 on: October 05, 2012, 11:05:18 PM »
I dig the geologic factor oozing through the rigs. I hope to one day spin some vinyl on something like the soapstone. Meta-dolostone!! Dolostone is cool, in and of itself by how it forms, but to have it get mangled and uplifted by tectonics and then spin vinyl on it?!? Whoddathunkit!?

Is that a HRTF head on the shelf? 
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mfrench

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #169 on: October 06, 2012, 12:28:36 PM »
Yeah, that is my Senn. MKE2002 Dummy Head, Gude.
He'd just be in a black box, so I let him out, and he occupies that shelf spot.

Soapstone,...  In this picture, on the vertical face of the plinth, you'll see a round silver object; a neodymium magnet.  Who knew that soapstone was magnetic or magnetically attractive?
I had a magnet on the plinth for some reason, on a piece of some other material. When I went to pick up that material, the magnet fell off.  I looked for it on the countertop, on the floor, below the plinth, and had just about given up on it. Then came an aha! moment.
It was at this point in developing the plinth that I realized its magnetic anomaly; I was already really deep in building it. I truly feel its attractive to magnetics, and not necessarily magnetic itself; if it is its really a low level of magnetic.  The RE magnet does not repulse from it on either side, it attracts to both sides, thusly my assumption of attractive.

I cannot make a regular magnet stick to it, but those rare earth magnets are so damn intense that they'll attract to wood.  Both soapstone plinths exhibit this same phenomenon.

Offline audBall

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #170 on: October 07, 2012, 10:20:49 AM »
According to wiki, soapstone forms by metamorphosing "ultramafic" (iron and magnesium bearing) sedimentary rocks like schist.  Magnetite (an iron oxide) can be found in these types of rocks. I have a piece of schist I picked up here in Phoenix that will hang from a strong magnet and has nice (1-2mm) octahedral magnetite crystals littered throughout. 

What all rock types do you see being used for TTs? Is soapstone commonly preferred?
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mfrench

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #171 on: October 07, 2012, 12:08:42 PM »
The most commonly used is slate.  The layers of sediment that formed it create a nice form of damping between each layer of strata.

Soapstone is not as common.  But there are several plinth builders that have used it.  Its an easy stone to work with.  On mine, I used tools common to most carpenters, with the most exotic being a wet tile saw (I have a tile saw that is similar to a table saw).  I've also used a standard router and carbide bit to do a bunch of work on the soapstone.  Its like working with an extremely hard wood.
Here is about the most extensive soapstone plinth collection on the web:
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=2700.0

Granite is being used, but is prone to the all too common mantra of "it rings".  I've seen a couple of wonderful example of granite used, and the owners have not suggested any such anomaly as ringing.
Here is a beautiful example of granite being used with a TT:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=441502&highlight=granite+empire

The antagonists of stone will say that all stone rings. I only have experience with soapstone, and find that mantra to be a myth spread by people that have not actually built anything with it.  Your tonearm will go resonant far before the plinth stone will. But I've seen where some antagonists suggest that the stone plinth will start to ring, especially in the corner areas; when asked of their own building experience, they've got nothing to back it up with. Those of us that have built with stone, with real experience, find no such thing.

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #172 on: October 07, 2012, 02:00:29 PM »
 ;D

Mike leaves no stone unturned in his relentless pursuit of auditory bliss....




(Sorry, had to be said....)
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mfrench

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #173 on: October 07, 2012, 02:35:56 PM »
Hey d0od, thats my rock table.

Offline DigiGal

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #174 on: October 08, 2012, 01:06:55 PM »
;D

Mike leaves no stone unturned in his relentless pursuit of auditory bliss....




(Sorry, had to be said....)

"Rock and Roll"
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

mfrench

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #175 on: November 11, 2012, 11:01:02 AM »
OK,… Let play:  Guess what Mikes truck dragged home tonight,…..





Any guesses?

OK,… Another clue unveiled:


At this point, it should be a dead giveaway:


Time for the glamour shots:








Their credentials:

 B-302A Twins: #01860 & #01861


In their new home:



Size comparison to the GE A1-400's:


You'll have to wait til tomorrow for the up skirt shots. For now, they're making sweet love to my ears.
I bought them from the original owners son. They were his fathers speakers.  They've been really well taken care of.  His son said they were new to his father in around 1961, or, 1962.  He suggested his father bought them before they moved to their new house, and that was in 1962.

The speakers are of the ceramic variety.  Wrong: They have alnico magnets - bonus points!
The crossover network is contained within a metal case, and not exposed like the older models.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 09:23:38 PM by m0k3 »

mfrench

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #176 on: November 11, 2012, 05:56:05 PM »
check out this cast iron beast!
heavy?  damn straight its heavy back breaking heavy.





crossovers:
right:

left:

Offline OOK

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #177 on: November 11, 2012, 11:30:40 PM »
I think I need a tissue.... ;D
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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #178 on: November 13, 2012, 10:53:55 AM »
Those Bozaks are in amazing shape!

Oops, looks like the original owner forgot to activate the warranty-
"Your warranty is not in effect unless this card is returned in 10 days"

musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

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Re: playback-pr0n
« Reply #179 on: November 13, 2012, 11:41:19 AM »
Sweet retro!
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this>that>the other

 

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