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Author Topic: Installing mics in a local club  (Read 2388 times)

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Offline pwig

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Installing mics in a local club
« on: December 24, 2014, 10:33:58 AM »
Hello all - I am privileged to live in a town with a small and vibrant club where the owner supports recording enthusiastically. He has asked me to consider installing a set of mics. The club is a small bar with a capacity of 80. I'd like to install some mics on the ceiling near the stage and also run a recorder from the board to be mixed later. My current set up includes 2 Sony PCM-M10's, a set of Audio Technica 853's (with card and hyper caps) and a Naiant Tinybox. I'd ideally like to be able to tape elsewhere and bottom line, I will do the majority of my recording at this club.

What do I need to know and do to make this happen?

Thanks for the help!

Offline fsulloway

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Re: Installing mics in a local club
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2014, 11:02:19 AM »
I'd just run cables to the spot on the ceiling that you want to place the mics and leave those. You can just put the mics up there before each show assuming a ladder is available. Unless the owner wants to spring for some mics there's no way I'd leave mine up there. At some point they'll go missing. We've got cables run across the ceiling of a local place and they've even been "borrowed."
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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Installing mics in a local club
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2014, 01:22:58 PM »
I also think you should look at installing cables, but take your mics with you. 

If you make one of these mounts for your AT853s, you should be able to figure out a way to hang them from the ceiling  or run then along the wall where they won't be a trip hazard and connect to the cables.  You could use a broom handle with a hook to lift the 853s in place, but you've got to be able to connect them, too.  for that, you're going to have to be able to reach the cable connection.  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155832.msg1968909#msg1968909

Some of that small cable that Darktrain uses could be stapled in place in the club. 

As much as I enjoy the Sony M10, the easier way to mix off the soundboard and pair of mics is with a four channel Tascam Dr60d plus a 5v external battery to keep it powered up unless the owner is giving you access to 110v power to use a power supply. 

If there are two unused channels on the snake from the stage, you could connect your mics to them and run them direct into a 60d back at the board without running your own cables. 

Another option is to buy a Tascam DR22wl and mix the two 853's wirelessly, but it's only two channels. 

Offline pwig

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Re: Installing mics in a local club
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2014, 02:03:38 PM »
If you set up the ATs with their hanging mounts, people will probably leave them alone.  If you still have their stock termination, that should come with plenty of cable, and will run balanced into a tinybox.

You do need to be concerned with the cable run since it will probably be long--it needs to be a balanced connection, so if the ATs have been reterminated to something else you might want to obtain a stock pair.

My AT's are terminated in the stock mini xlr's. I am wondering if I could just just get a very long "patch" cable for them that could remain in the club stapled in place. Once I have that, I could always keep the AT cables bundled when using in the local club and yet have them for other recording situations. If so, who can help with the needed cable length? If this doesn't work, I just need to find a similar microphone that could be modified and left hanging.

The owner of the club is a former touring musician and friend. It is a great situation for me as it is not too far from my house and an active club. It is awesome!

Offline pwig

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Re: Installing mics in a local club
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2014, 03:46:09 PM »
I would leave one pair installed and get another pair to carry around.  It's a pain to use the stock 20' or whatever cable anyway when you only need 6' or less.  And coiling and rigging the cable repeatedly will stress it into a short life.  These mics were mainly designed for permanent install anyway.

Thanks Jon - I may have a line on a new pair that could be installed. If not, would my Tinybox power a pair of 933's?

stevetoney

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Re: Installing mics in a local club
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2014, 04:39:28 PM »
My church has AT853s hanging from the ceiling with those hanging mounts.  We use 4 hanging mics (they hang over the choir) and I'd estimate the longest cable run to the sound console is 100 feet.  Pretty nifty setup with those hanging mounts Jon mentioned.  I can definitely see those in a club as long as the ceiling is high enough that nobody can get at them. 

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Installing mics in a local club
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2014, 06:45:22 PM »
The way they are hung for choral sound reinforcement is not the pattern one would typically use for recording.  At first, I thought this was brilliant, but I believe better results are to be had with the mics spread in the link posted.  But I have been known to be wrong before.

Offline pwig

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Re: Installing mics in a local club
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2014, 06:49:45 PM »
The way they are hung for choral sound reinforcement is not the pattern one would typically use for recording.  At first, I thought this was brilliant, but I believe better results are to be had with the mics spread in the link posted.  But I have been known to be wrong before.

Where is the supply list for making one of these mounts?

stevetoney

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Re: Installing mics in a local club
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2014, 07:13:53 PM »
The way they are hung for choral sound reinforcement is not the pattern one would typically use for recording.  At first, I thought this was brilliant, but I believe better results are to be had with the mics spread in the link posted.  But I have been known to be wrong before.

I hear you 2manyrocks.  To be clear, my comment about the mics being installed in my church was reinforcement of Jon's comment that there are accessories available for hanging from overhead and long cable runs aren't unusual.  To your point, I have no idea how the choir configuration translates to a club or even which capsules are in the churches 853s.

Marshall7

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Re: Installing mics in a local club
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2014, 07:14:40 PM »
In the thread, under the photos in the first post, he mentions:

Go to Lowes or Home Depot's Plumbing department...Street connectors, adapter for 1/2" to 3/4" PVC pipe, 1/2" and 3/4" pipe with a saw kerf to snake the microphone cable out of the PVC pipe

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Installing mics in a local club
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2014, 07:26:26 PM »
Here is a better link explaining the mount.  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=164176.msg2055683#msg2055683

Basically, you need two 45 degree elbows and about 8 inches of CPVC pipe, all 1/2 inch diameter, glue suitable for cpvc, and bit of flat black spray paint.  You need to cut a slot in the elbows to run your cable through.  For that, a grinding wheel in a dremel tool works.  A thin curf cutoff blade in an angle grinder is even faster (wear eye protection).  The mics will be a bit loose in the elbows, and to snug them up, glue in a bit of felt or something similar to take up the slack.  Seems like I stuck a 3/8 inch bolt in each elbow to hold the felt in place until it dried. 

Typically, a coupler is added to the middle to make it thick enough for the whole mount to fit in a shock mount on a mic stand. 

I'm not quite sure how you want to mount this to the ceiling.  A support wire with some fishing line to hold it in the correct orientation might work.  You will want to be able to orient the mics in the mount at a downward angle towards the source of the music as needed. 

What is the ceiling in the club? What is there to work with?

edit: photo of possible way of mounting depending on how far down from the ceiling you need to get.  Rigging a cable off the ceiling is probably easier and cheaper. 

« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 07:56:06 PM by 2manyrocks »

Offline pwig

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Re: Installing mics in a local club
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2014, 10:54:19 PM »
Here is a better link explaining the mount.  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=164176.msg2055683#msg2055683

Basically, you need two 45 degree elbows and about 8 inches of CPVC pipe, all 1/2 inch diameter, glue suitable for cpvc, and bit of flat black spray paint.  You need to cut a slot in the elbows to run your cable through.  For that, a grinding wheel in a dremel tool works.  A thin curf cutoff blade in an angle grinder is even faster (wear eye protection).  The mics will be a bit loose in the elbows, and to snug them up, glue in a bit of felt or something similar to take up the slack.  Seems like I stuck a 3/8 inch bolt in each elbow to hold the felt in place until it dried. 

Typically, a coupler is added to the middle to make it thick enough for the whole mount to fit in a shock mount on a mic stand. 

I'm not quite sure how you want to mount this to the ceiling.  A support wire with some fishing line to hold it in the correct orientation might work.  You will want to be able to orient the mics in the mount at a downward angle towards the source of the music as needed. 

What is the ceiling in the club? What is there to work with?

edit: photo of possible way of mounting depending on how far down from the ceiling you need to get.  Rigging a cable off the ceiling is probably easier and cheaper.

Thank you for this detail, this is helpful to me!

The club has several rafters. There is one directly above the stage and one about 5 feet back. Ideally, I think I would like to tuck them about 5 feet back and mounted where the rafter meets the ceiling. This would allow me to point them towards the music. This would also ensure they don't become something that is in the way or something someone wishes to swing from! Before making it permanent, I will put them up with a large clamp to see how they sound in that location.


 

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