Topic: Denecke ad 20 vs. Church Audio Pre for AT853s

[gngrbrdman13]

A close friend of mine wants to step up from the batt box he uses for his AT853s.

With all of your information I narrowed it down to these two.  Thank you all for the previously posted information.

Now I need to make a decision.  Its hard for me I dont know much about the pres except what you guys tell me. 

Please help me help my friend make the right choice. 

$$ is an issue for him.

dd

[Brian Skalinder]

What ADC (assume in the recorder) would he use with the Church Audio Pre?

[gngrbrdman13]

What ADC (assume in the recorder) would he use with the Church Audio Pre?

excellent question.  I am giving him a D7.

I know the ad20 has the a/d built in I dont know what to suggest.  I really need your guys' help on this one.

dd

[setboy]

what is he powering the mic with?

[gngrbrdman13]

what is he powering the mic with?

currently?  Some batt box I cant recall which type.  Anything with a pre will sound better than that I suspect.

So I would like to eliminate those two batt boxes (1/channel) and get a small, stealthy pre for him that is optimally paired with the 853s.

I am grateful for your opinions on this.

dd

[stirinthesauce]

Well, the ad20 does not provide phantom power though it is stealthy in its size.  You would need the deneck ps-2 to go along with it.  I believe the ps-2 goes for around 80-100 used on here(I may be wrong on the exact used price). You could also go with a cheaper phantom power option.   I don't know if the church - audio provides phantom power or not and can't attest for its sonic characteristics because I have only run the ad-20. 

[gngrbrdman13]

Well, the ad20 does not provide phantom power though it is stealthy in its size.  You would need the deneck ps-2 to go along with it.  I believe the ps-2 goes for around 80-100 used on here(I may be wrong on the exact used price). You could also go with a cheaper phantom power option.   I don't know if the church - audio provides phantom power or not and can't attest for its sonic characteristics because I have only run the ad-20. 

thanks for your response stirinthesauce!
will you tell me how you like the ad20 and why please?  I suspect you use the AT853s or something simalar?

[stirinthesauce]

Well, the ad20 does not provide phantom power though it is stealthy in its size.  You would need the deneck ps-2 to go along with it.  I believe the ps-2 goes for around 80-100 used on here(I may be wrong on the exact used price). You could also go with a cheaper phantom power option.   I don't know if the church - audio provides phantom power or not and can't attest for its sonic characteristics because I have only run the ad-20. 

thanks for your response stirinthesauce!
will you tell me how you like the ad20 and why please?  I suspect you use the AT853s or something simalar?

No, I don't run  853's if you look in my sig, you will see that I run an open rig, Peluso's>w+mod ua-5 and various recording devices.  AT853's as a mic, to my ears, sound really nice.  Transparent, tight.  I used to own an ad-20.  For the price point it is pretty decent pre, especially for stealth purposes as it already has an adc.  Of course it's downfall is the lack of phantom power, hence the need for the seperate phantom power box like the denecke ps2.  When I owned the ad-20, I ran nak 300's so no need for phantom power.  One thing to remember though, the ad-20 provides a minumum of 17db of gain.  May want to take that into account if your buddy is gonna do loud rock shows in front of a stack. 

[Church-Audio]

My preamps do not provide phantom power they provide plug in power. If you need a 3 wire preamp, I make the st-9100 as far as sonics go that preamp is flat from 15 Hz to 40 kHz. Not that frequency response is everything, but its something the distortion is less then 0.05% and self noise is
-120dB. I use a burr brown opamp it provides 00-db to +20 of gain. Just wanted to clear that up and it has a high pass filter that can be bypassed. And a clip light. The size is 3.5 inches x 2.5 inches x 1 inch in size. It will run for 50 hours on a 9volt battery.
 

Chris Church

Well, the ad20 does not provide phantom power though it is stealthy in its size.  You would need the deneck ps-2 to go along with it.  I believe the ps-2 goes for around 80-100 used on here(I may be wrong on the exact used price). You could also go with a cheaper phantom power option.   I don't know if the church - audio provides phantom power or not and can't attest for its sonic characteristics because I have only run the ad-20. 

[Zaphod]

I think the Church 3 wire pre would be ideal for the AT853s as long as they are terminated in mini-xlrs.

[bdasilva]

I agree.. The Church Audio preamp is small and quiet and would work like a champ on the 853s... We must remember what Richard (poorlyconditioned) has taught us... Phantom power provides 48V... tho most mics only need 9 at the capsule. Plus Chris is one of us and if you can get past the Canadian Post Office (their motto.. "Maybe Tomorrow,  Eh") His customer service is perfect.

[Church-Audio]

I am not one of you I am from mars damit

I agree.. The Church Audio preamp is small and quiet and would work like a champ on the 853s... We must remember what Richard (poorlyconditioned) has taught us... Phantom power provides 48V... tho most mics only need 9 at the capsule. Plus Chris is one of us and if you can get past the Canadian Post Office (their motto.. "Maybe Tomorrow,  Eh") His customer service is perfect.

[gngrbrdman13]

I agree.. The Church Audio preamp is small and quiet and would work like a champ on the 853s... We must remember what Richard (poorlyconditioned) has taught us... Phantom power provides 48V... tho most mics only need 9 at the capsule. Plus Chris is one of us and if you can get past the Canadian Post Office (their motto.. "Maybe Tomorrow,  Eh") His customer service is perfect.

Only 'need' 9 at the capsule?  My schoeps wont run optimally at 9 volts.  Many run them at 48v.  I run them at 60v (with the nbox that is) That is where schoeps states they run at optimum performance.  I find it hard to believe that running a microphone at 9v will provide the same results as running one at 48v.  I dont know much about AT mics and I dont have any idea which pre will sound best. 

I believe that Chris is a great guy and his opinions on this forum are excellent and valued.  Its always good to work with someone who is into this hobby.  Remember, a close friend of mine builds the nbox and I love it.  I have used every pre except the portico on my schoeps and I still love that box.  In open opportunites though I enjoy the sounds of other boxes too.  Better is a difficult word when you are talking about sound.

Is it better or is it just different?  It very much depends on the playback system and the individuals ability to critically evaluate sound.

If you need a 3 wire preamp, I make the st-9100 as far as sonics go that preamp is flat from 15 Hz to 40 kHz. Not that frequency response is everything, but its something the distortion is less then 0.05%

Chris Church

Frequency response is pretty important.  Transition between frequencies is critically important.

PM sent to Chris Church....

[setboy]

how is it that half the post you make turn into to something about Nbox?

if you give 48V to any of the A.T. mics you will kill them.

 

I agree.. The Church Audio preamp is small and quiet and would work like a champ on the 853s... We must remember what Richard (poorlyconditioned) has taught us... Phantom power provides 48V... tho most mics only need 9 at the capsule. Plus Chris is one of us and if you can get past the Canadian Post Office (their motto.. "Maybe Tomorrow,  Eh") His customer service is perfect.

Only 'need' 9 at the capsule?  My schoeps wont run optimally at 9 volts.  Many run them at 48v.  I run them at 60v (with the nbox that is) That is where schoeps states they run at optimum performance.  I find it hard to believe that running a microphone at 9v will provide the same results as running one at 48v.  I dont know much about AT mics and I dont have any idea which pre will sound best. 

I believe that Chris is a great guy and his opinions on this forum are excellent and valued.  Its always good to work with someone who is into this hobby.  Remember, a close friend of mine builds the nbox and I love it.  I have used every pre except the portico on my schoeps and I still love that box.  In open opportunites though I enjoy the sounds of other boxes too.  Better is a difficult word when you are talking about sound.

Is it better or is it just different?  It very much depends on the playback system and the individuals ability to critically evaluate sound.

If you need a 3 wire preamp, I make the st-9100 as far as sonics go that preamp is flat from 15 Hz to 40 kHz. Not that frequency response is everything, but its something the distortion is less then 0.05%

Chris Church

Frequency response is pretty important.  Transition between frequencies is critically important.

PM sent to Chris Church....

[poorlyconditioned]

I agree.. The Church Audio preamp is small and quiet and would work like a champ on the 853s... We must remember what Richard (poorlyconditioned) has taught us... Phantom power provides 48V... tho most mics only need 9 at the capsule. Plus Chris is one of us and if you can get past the Canadian Post Office (their motto.. "Maybe Tomorrow,  Eh") His customer service is perfect.

Only 'need' 9 at the capsule?  My schoeps wont run optimally at 9 volts.  Many run them at 48v.  I run them at 60v (with the nbox that is) That is where schoeps states they run at optimum performance.  I find it hard to believe that running a microphone at 9v will provide the same results as running one at 48v.  I dont know much about AT mics and I dont have any idea which pre will sound best. 

I believe that Chris is a great guy and his opinions on this forum are excellent and valued.  Its always good to work with someone who is into this hobby.  Remember, a close friend of mine builds the nbox and I love it.  I have used every pre except the portico on my schoeps and I still love that box.  In open opportunites though I enjoy the sounds of other boxes too.  Better is a difficult word when you are talking about sound.

Is it better or is it just different?  It very much depends on the playback system and the individuals ability to critically evaluate sound.

If you need a 3 wire preamp, I make the st-9100 as far as sonics go that preamp is flat from 15 Hz to 40 kHz. Not that frequency response is everything, but its something the distortion is less then 0.05%

Chris Church

Frequency response is pretty important.  Transition between frequencies is critically important.

PM sent to Chris Church....

The Scheops are *externally polarized* condensors.  That means they need higher voltages (like 48 or 60V on the capsule).  I believe that is why "phantom power" was developed in the first place, but I'm not sure.  Nowadays, most high end mics have a step-up circuit to generate the 60V or whatever more reliably.

The other option is electret mics that are called *pre* or *self* polarized.  They have a small charge in the mic element.  The battery or phantom is only to power the FET (field effect transistor) and possibly a line driver circuit.

The confusing thing comes when mics like AKG Blueline, AT853, Shure SM81, etc use phantom power, but are really electrets inside.  There is a small step-down circuit in there to get 9V or 6V or whatever the FET/line driver needs.

Of course, there is great debate whether electrets or true condensers are better.  But that is another story...

  Richard