Topic: Edirol R-09 - what is the real unity gain setting?

[echo1434]

But...but...but... 13's an unlucky number. I wouldn't possibly be comfortable taping at 13.

Yeah, it's one heck of a choice to make that the default. It just doesn't sound like a "normal" setting. Something even like 12 would have been a lot better...

[echo1434]

Ok, so let's say that you use "13" (or something very close) as your base setting on the Edirol. I know that if you set the Edirol the 23, it's going to have 10 db more self-noise than if you use 13.

23 is a pretty typical setting for me when using DPA 4061s > battery box > R-09.

So let's say you set the Edirol at 13 and then add 10 dB of gain with an external preamp... About how much noise will this add the signal?

I'm just wondering how beneficial having a preamp is when you consider that the base setting on the Edirol has to be somewhat high in the first place...

[Gutbucket]

Ok, so let's say that you use "13" (or something very close) as your base setting on the Edirol. I know that if you set the Edirol the 23, it's going to have 10 db more self-noise than if you use 13.

23 is a pretty typical setting for me when using DPA 4061s > battery box > R-09.

So let's say you set the Edirol at 13 and then add 10 dB of gain with an external preamp... About how much noise will this add the signal?

Totally depends on how quiet your external preamp is.

I'm just wondering how beneficial having a preamp is when you consider that the base setting on the Edirol has to be somewhat high in the first place...

One (perhaps the primary) benefit of the external preamp is that you can make most or all of the needed gain using the external preamp and NOT the preamp in the recorder.  That means you can set your 'base setting' on the Edirol lower.. the more gain you make with the external preamp, the lower you can set the gain on the recorder.  If taken to the extreme you'll need to turn the recorder's gain way down to level 1, which as mentioned may produce problems other than noise amplification (like bass overloading due to the R-09's digital attenuation, loss of headroom in the external preamp). Just find the sweet spot.

FWIW, when running DPA 4060>MMA6000>R-09  I aim for keeping the recorder around 15 and typically run the MMA6000 anywhere from +7.5 (louder amplified stuff) to +20 db (soft acoustic material).  I can then bump the gain on the R-09 up or down a few dB's if needed.

[jeromejello]

If you really want to know or confirm, I suggest you contact Roland directly.  They picked up the phone within 30 secs when I called on Friday.  Or submit an email request.

Digital Recorders and Mixers: 323-890-3741

http://backstage.rolandus.com/email_support/

sorry to bump an old thread, but i have been very curious about the "unity gain" on my r-09 lately...

i realize that we have had lots of differences of opinions here and so i decided to call the support number above to see if 2 years later, someone there now has an answer.

sad to report that the guy i spoke with does not have an answer and was actually very condescending on the phone when i was speaking with him.  Saying things like "have you even used this thing"

His solution was to use the preamp meter and match it to the r-09 meter and when they were the same then I was not adding gain ... not quite sure that is a real solution, but whatever... 

fwiw, i asked if there was a set number or range where the line in signal was attenuated or if it was all gain.  He stated it was all gain.  I asked what about the 0 which was a "mute" function, and that was when i was told "its real easy, just match the meters".

kinda disappointed in the level of service, but maybe he was having a bad day or possibly really didnt know his shit.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

What you were asking was a somewhat subtle concept.. And it is on a slippery slope to admitting that the r09 and r09hr distort signals way before clipping.

[udovdh]

0 dbU is the nominal input level.
Why do people deviate from this?
Why do people even question this?
We already had some discussion about this very subject.