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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Colin Liston on January 03, 2008, 11:46:48 AM
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Olympus LS-10 Recorder out now.
No digi input, and what is with these new recorders with built in mics?
http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/product.asp?product=1350&fl=4
Olympus LS-10 Recorder Delivers Superior Sound Quality and Professional Features to Musicians
True All-In-One Digital Portable Audio Device Lets Audiophiles Record in Uncompressed Linear PCM Format
CENTER VALLEY, Pa., January 3, 2008 - Olympus, the market leader for portable digital voice recorders and professional dictation devices, now leverages its audio expertise with the LS-10 Linear PCM Audio Recording Device, the ultimate portable professional recording tool for musicians and everyone who values high-quality recording. Straight out of the box, the intuitive and easy-to-use LS-10 delivers the high fidelity of a portable professional recording studio in an extremely light, go-anywhere body. No extra gear is required to record audio in uncompressed 24 bit/96 kHz Linear PCM format for digital stereo recordings true to the original performance. In addition to WAV, the LS-10 records and plays back in the common WMA and MP3 formats.
The LS-10 contains many unique and innovative features, including the following:
* Uncompressed 24 bit/96 kHz Linear PCM recording capability;
* WAV, MP3 and WMA recording and playback;
* Elegant and durable aluminum body;
* 2GB Built-in memory and a SD/SDHC removable media card slot that can accommodate SD cards;
* Built-in stereo speakers for instant playback of recordings;
* High sensitivity built-in stereo microphones;
* Manual Recording Level Adjustment to obtain the optimum level;
* Remote jack for optional wireless remote controller;
* Recording battery life of 12 hours; and
* Large 1.8-inch LCD with backlight.
"The LS-10 will bring music to the masses by allowing musicians and audio enthusiasts to produce studio-quality recordings," said Andrew Flagg, director, Sales and Marketing, Olympus Imaging America Inc. "As more and more people return to playing musical instruments themselves, the LS-10 will help them reach their true potential as performers and allow them to share their music with friends and family. Whether it is used by a band of amateur musicians or an orchestra, the LS-10 offers the best sound quality, ease of use, and feature set in the industry and produces recordings that are faithful to the original performance."
High Quality Recording
The LS-10 features uncompressed 24 bit/96kHz Linear PCM recording capability, to capture the rich sound quality of music performances. It has the versatility to record and play back in the WAV, MP3 and WMA formats. The LS-10 can record with its internal microphone or by plugging in an external microphone. The LS-10's value extends beyond the realm of music. Students will find it useful for recording lectures and journalists for recording high-quality interviews for broadcasts and podcasts.
Elegant and Intuitive Design
An enlarged, backlit LCD is easy to read and shows file information, recording time and events clearly. The device is outfitted with an ergonomic dial thumb pad allowing the user to play or stop a recording, adjust the volume level, fast-forward and rewind with the touch of one button. The Erase and Folder/Index buttons are positioned individually below the thumb dial for easy access.
Durability
The LS-10 has a lightweight and durable aluminum body. This keeps the weight of the LS-10 to a mere 5.8 ounces including batteries.
Memory Capacity and Expandability
The LS-10 has two gigabytes of internal flash memory to capture lengthy recordings. The LS-10 also features an SD/SDHC removable media card slot to further expand its capacity. During a busy day of recording, changing SD cards is an easy way for users to capture more audio without taking the time to download files to a computer.
Recording and Listening
The LS-10 can play back the high-quality audio it records and play it back on its built-in stereo speakers with vibrancy and clarity. These speakers allow more than one person to listen to a new recording simultaneously to help collaborating musicians evaluate recording progress on the fly.
Wireless Control
The optional exclusive wireless remote controller allows users to start and stop the recording of the LS-10 from a distance. This is ideal for live performances when the LS-10 can be placed near the stage and activated from several rows back.
Battery Life
The LS-10 can record 12 hours on two AA batteries, longer than many competing Linear PCM recorders and long enough for an all-day event.
Accessories
The LS-10 ships with Steinberg CUBASE LE 4 Sound editing software with 48 sound tracks and variety of effects, a carrying case, USB cable, audio cable, wind screen, two AA batteries, a strap, an instruction manual and Olympus warranty card.
Optional accessories for the LS-10 include an infrared remote control, AC adaptor, conference microphones (ME30W), Carrying Bag, Tripod, Rechargeable Battery (Ni-MH) and Charger, a zoom microphone, and a headset.
Pricing and Availability
The LS-10 provides excellent uncompressed audio recording at a fraction of the price of competing Linear PCM recorders. The LS-10 Digital Audio Device has an estimated street price of $399.99 (U.S.) and will be available in January 2008.
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the built in 2gb of memory is pretty sweet..
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Has anybody seen/heard one yet? Looks like there's another choice for "all in one" recorders!
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Interesting. Looks like Olympus wants to grab some market share from the R09, PMD620, and PCM-D50. Similar price and size to the R09 and PMD620, and, like them, takes 2AA batteries. Speaker like the Marantz and 96kHz, aluminum body and built-in memory like the PCM-D50...
Sort of skeptical about the 12 hour record time on a pair of AA's though.
I wonder how it sounds? When I think of Olympus, I don't think about audio gear (unlike Edirol, Marantz or Sony)...
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Curious to know if it has seamless splits and what the quality of the AD is.
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Olympus has been making handheld tape recorders for years. Their stuff is popular amongst the Media folks.
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Got an e-mail from SoundPros about this today. $348 from them.
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Good:
Nice sleek design. Different from all the other recorders in that regard.
Bad:
I'm not thrilled about the HOLD and POWER functions being on the same switch. A definite flaw.
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For Olympus, the "hold" function is basically to turn power off completely. Otherwise, the buttons will bring it alive or it could be in a mode to voice activate. So the "Power Hold" switch is just the power switch...not a "Pause" function. At least that describes it as it is implemented on other Olympus recorders.
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Any news about this machine?
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No news -- it's not released yet. This has not stopped some dealers from taking orders. I've seen prices as low as $295 (neutronexpress.com). Just be sure the dealer promises not to charge your credit card until the recorder ships.
Flintstone
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Oooohhhhwwww me like! And lotsa buttons too ;D
I bet you can get away with it when you're caught and tell them it's a new design cell-phone :D
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Hi, I've contacted them if the recorder has seamless splits but they did not answer. Maybe someone in the forum can also ask. If it does have seamless splits then it will be a great recorder for it's size ;D
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It seems, that they don't sell it in europe or maybe it'll be here delayed, because they told me to ask Olympus America for further informations. If it'll be sold here in germany in the near future, they would have been told me so (maybe they simply don't know it better).
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It seems, that they don't sell it in europe or maybe it'll be here delayed, because they told me to ask Olympus America for further informations. If it'll be sold here in germany in the near future, they would have been told me so (maybe they simply don't know it better).
Not in europe? Dang.. :banging head: :jawdrop:
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It seems, that they don't sell it in europe or maybe it'll be here delayed, because they told me to ask Olympus America for further informations. If it'll be sold here in germany in the near future, they would have been told me so (maybe they simply don't know it better).
Not in europe? Dang.. :banging head:
The indomitable forces of global capitalism will ensure that some get over here to the Netherlands, Nixoo... ;)
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I wrote them to definitely clear it.
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For Olympus, the "hold" function is basically to turn power off completely. Otherwise, the buttons will bring it alive or it could be in a mode to voice activate. So the "Power Hold" switch is just the power switch...not a "Pause" function. At least that describes it as it is implemented on other Olympus recorders.
Hope this will answer some of your questions regarding this recorder:
Actually, the hold function will not turn off the recorder. It is a similar switch as the MR-1. If you press down it will power on and if you click upward it will act as a hold switch.
The pictures does not really show much but there is also a "pause" option. If you press the REC it will not record straight away but will be in REC pause mode. You need to press the REC again to start recording. If you press the REC during recording it will pause the recording.
The remote is planned to be released in the Spring of 2008 so you have to wait a little longer.
You can adjust the brightness and contrast on the monitor.
There's a few extra features, which I will not go into.
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Scyue,
Obviously you have preview information about this recorder.
Did you see it at CES?
Can you (or anyone else) confirm that the "late January"
release date is still likely? Or has the release slipped to March?
Flintstone
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I don't know if it will be release on time. But what I do know is it will also be released worldwide including Europe (but not the same time). No I didn't go to CES. Another interesting info good for you is it can take 5V external battery like the MT and MR-1, but I doubt you need it because it runs for many more hours than any of the recorders in the market.
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"it runs for many more hours than any of the recorders in the market."
Maybe modify this statement to say "than any of the recorders that use two AAs for power." Olympus claims up to 12 hours of battery life while recording. The Sony PCM-D50 can match that, but it carries 4 AAs.
Others have made disparaging remarks about Olympus because until now they have focused on gear for dictation and notes-taking. Instead, I see a company that has worked hard to create reliable and easy-to-use audio recording equipment. I think their step up to "semi-pro" music recorder will be successful.
Flintstone
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Scyue, thanks for the heads-up! Please keep us updated :) +T
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Thanks!
+T for you, too :)
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Scyue, any idea how many volts of plug-in power the LS-10 will provide to mics?
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It's been almost two weeks since the last post - anybody have any news?
I really like my Olympus DS-30 Voice Recorder and carry it a lot. This would be a nice upgrade from that and a nice backup to my main Field Recorder (D-50) and for when I don't have it with me and something spontaneous pops up.
- Mike
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It's been almost two weeks since the last post - anybody have any news?
I really like my Olympus DS-30 Voice Recorder and carry it a lot. This would be a nice upgrade from that and a nice backup to my main Field Recorder (D-50) and for when I don't have it with me and something spontaneous pops up.
- Mike
I made a recent call to Olympus and was told it would be late February-early March for release. Also, they apparently will not post the manual online until release.
In Canada, Olympus doesn't have very good distribution. These units might end up being sold in camera stores, i.e., Henry's, etc.
- Phil
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The manual is now online
http://www.olympusamerica.com/files/LS-10_Instructions_EN.pdf
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Hi Thanks looks interesting.
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The manual is now online
http://www.olympusamerica.com/files/LS-10_Instructions_EN.pdf
Thanks.
Here is something I saw at a quick glance: "If you are recording into a file and the batteries run out, you will lose your currently recorded file because the file header will not be able to close."
This manual is a bit light on the specs. Nothing about the internal mics or how many volts of plug-in power or that sort of thing.
I am curious to see one of these. It's really small...
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HI This is one of the smallest 24 bit recorders I've seen. If they added a digital-in it will be too good. Just hope by next year a company makes one as small as this with digital-in.
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you can get it now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160209295392&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
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Here's another vendor that claims to have received the LS-10 on 15 Feb.
http://www.startstop.com/ls10.asp
Unfortunately they don't publish a price. They do offer free 1-Day shipping and an unconditional 30 day money back guarantee. (You have to pay their shipping cost if you return the unit.)
Flintstone
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Here's another vendor that claims to have received the LS-10 on 15 Feb.
http://www.startstop.com/ls10.asp
Unfortunately they don't publish a price. They do offer free 1-Day shipping and an unconditional 30 day money back guarantee. (You have to pay their shipping cost if you return the unit.)
Flintstone
Although their webpage invites you to call for a custom quote, if you just press "Buy Now" it comes up as $399.99 (which is mentioned as the List Price) - 99 cents over the eBay vendor.
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Competition is heating up... can't wait to see the reviews on this.
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Hello:
Just FYI, our first shipment is arriving Monday 2-18-08 and we are shipping to everyone who pre-ordered one the same day. I don't want to get into an advertisement here, so if you want info, please email or call us.
We are anxious to check out this recorder!
The Sound Professionals, Inc.
800-213-3021
www.soundprofessionals.com
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Competition is heating up... can't wait to see the reviews on this.
Some consumer reviews are out now on Amazon, but nobody have tested it in a concert situation yet:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R329DEJK9OCXEG
Doesn't say much more than we know already, but confirms that the build quality is good.
And there's a link to a dealer selling it for $355 + shipping :-)
/Jan
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Hello:
A quick message. We received our first shipment of the LS-10 recorders on Monday and they are gone. We pulled a few strings and we are getting exactly 10 extra units we were not expecting, due to arrive on Tuesday (yes, the supply is very short on these right now).
.....for Taperssection members only, we will sell them at $348.00.....ten units only, limit one per customer, sale ends when the 10 are gone, no other discounts apply. Starts at midnight tonight. To get the price, enter this coupon at checkout:
tapersls10
Here is the link:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/OL-LS-10
Ok, the disclaimer: I apologize for putting this here, but I really want them to go to people on this board, as a thank you for your continued support. If this really pisses people off, I promise I won't do it again. Send your complaints to sales@soundprofessionals.com
For less time sensitive specials, we do list them on the retail board.
Thanks!
Chris Carfagno
The Sound Professionals, Inc.
www.soundprofessionals.com
800-213-3021
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i cant imagine anyone getting bent over that deal. +t
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Does that price include S&H within USA?
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I've got a new one in the box...I'll report on it this weekend!
;-)
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Hello:
For this special, shipping is not included. You can use only one discount coupon per order.
The Sound Professionals
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Eager minds want to know! I may be selling my new R-09.
I've got a new one in the box...I'll report on it this weekend!
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LS-10 looks to be a great little deck (needs bench testing to know for sure), and seems to be the first potentially pro-quality flash deck to easily pass as being a cell phone with its slim profile case.
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Guy,
Are you basing your positive comment on having heard its sound? Any other TS'ers have anything to report?
Olympus LS-10 is out and Tascam DR-1 is just about to come out, so my curiosity is peaking.
thx Guy and all!
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Guy,
Are you basing your positive comment on having heard its sound? Any other TS'ers have anything to report?
Olympus LS-10 is out and Tascam DR-1 is just about to come out, so my curiosity is peaking.
thx Guy and all!
No audition as yet here or posted it seems. News is LS-10 has just started shipping for $400 price. Wish someone would send one here on short loan for some testing for knowing what's up with the inputs.
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Here's a German language test recording created with the built-in mics of the LS-10, high mic sensitivity, sounds a bit noisy in my opinion, but perhaps, the preamp produces less noise, when external mics are used:
http://www.audiotranskription.de/podcast/LS-10.mp3
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LS-10 looks to be a great little deck (needs bench testing to know for sure), and seems to be the first potentially pro-quality flash deck to easily pass as being a cell phone with its slim profile case.
I was thinking the same thing, especially since it comes with a nice leather case that appears to hide the mics a bit. It would be quite feasible to walk through the turnstile holding this thing to your ear and having it pass as a somewhat largish cell phone.
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It would be quite feasible to walk through the turnstile holding this thing to your ear and having it pass as a somewhat largish cell phone.
Well, that's quite possible - I've got through holding my Zoom H2 to my chin and pretending to be having a shave.
OK, I'm fibbing. ;)
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I know there are a few members here who has the LS-10 now so I'm just curious if it can do seamless splits.
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Seamless splits: NO
When the recorder arrives at 2GB, it saves the file and stops.
The LS-10's file size limit for MP3 and WMA is 4GB! Maybe Olympus
can be convinced to add a 4GB limit for WAV as well in a future
firmware update.
Olympus audio products used to be limited to dictation gear.
This means Olympus audio dealers are not oriented to
"audiophile" pricing. So I expect to see deeper discounts
in the future.
Flintstone
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"I went today and tested both, the Olympus LS-10 and the Tascam DR-1. Tascam won hands down. I really WANTED to buy the Olympus, because it looks cool and sexy, but the limiter was BAD and we were unable to record drums without distortion. I think it is really really good for interviews etc but defo not for my loud band rehearsals."
http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=20674&view=findpost&p=132323
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"I went today and tested both, the Olympus LS-10 and the Tascam DR-1. Tascam won hands down. I really WANTED to buy the Olympus, because it looks cool and sexy, but the limiter was BAD and we were unable to record drums without distortion. I think it is really really good for interviews etc but defo not for my loud band rehearsals."
http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=20674&view=findpost&p=132323
Post further on, same page:
"I in NO way regret , letting go of the Zoom H2 ."
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It would be quite feasible to walk through the turnstile holding this thing to your ear and having it pass as a somewhat largish cell phone.
Well, that's quite possible - I've got through holding my Zoom H2 to my chin and pretending to be having a shave.
OK, I'm fibbing. ;)
lol... that would work with the R-90 too... that thing looks almost exactly like my electric shaver.
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Seamless splits: NO
When the recorder arrives at 2GB, it saves the file and stops.
Ohhh.. that is bad news. Guess I'll be selling the LS-10 when I get it and keeping the R-09 after all, sheesh.
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Here's a video of a demo by an Olympus rep (I think). Looking forward to user reviews in concert settings.
http://livefrom.musicplayer.com/clip.aspx?key=BD6B352C8432BE61 (http://livefrom.musicplayer.com/clip.aspx?key=BD6B352C8432BE61)
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I've got to say that level dial looks way too easy to move by accident in stealthing situations -- unless there's a hold function that renders it useless, but considering it's numbered on the dial, I doubt hold will prevent level changes (in your pocket for example).
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The level dial is protected by the protruding edge of the speaker. The dial is slightly smaller in diameter than the speaker so it doesn't turn when you rub against the case. Also, there's a bit of resistance when you turn the level dial. It's unlikely to move by accident. The numbers on the level dial are pretty small, and they are hard to read when the lighting is poor.
Flintstone
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The level dial is protected by the protruding edge of the speaker. The dial is slightly smaller in diameter than the speaker so it doesn't turn when you rub against the case. Also, there's a bit of resistance when you turn the level dial. It's unlikely to move by accident. The numbers on the level dial are pretty small, and they are hard to read when the lighting is poor.
Flintstone
Have you tried it out in real world recording situations? Please let us know how you like it!
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The manual is now online
http://www.olympusamerica.com/files/LS-10_Instructions_EN.pdf
On page 25 of the manual, it says *don't* connect an external mic to the line-in jack.
Oh dear.
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The manual is now online
http://www.olympusamerica.com/files/LS-10_Instructions_EN.pdf
On page 25 of the manual, it says *don't* connect an external mic to the line-in jack.
Oh dear.
You're suppose to connect a preamp to the line-in jack, which is more logical.
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Really interesting: Talked with an Olympus engineer a few days ago. The LS-10's mic preamps are made by the very same company that makes the Sony PCM-D50 pre-amps.
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I've got the LS-10 for some days now, and like to share my first impressions:
The device is very nicely built, and it's super easy to use with the big rec button and red LED light when recording (can be switched off). After some 15 minutes, I went through the menus and they're easily understandable even without manual.
After having used the microtrack, I'm overwhelmed by the LS-10. I think the LS-10 just sounds great, has extremely sensitive internal mics, and quite low noise (IMO, but can't compare to the D50...).
The volume- and rec-level dials still work when on hold, but they are quite hard to move so that this doesn't matter to me at all.
My only two, rather small complaints are the not so very high maximum phone level, and the 2GB WAV-file limit (mp3s are 4GB). Interestingly, the manual sais the file limit for all files was 4GB, so one can hope this will be corrected with a firmware update. Other than that, I'm very happy having bought this one as a successor to the MT.
This is a damn nice toy :-)
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I have had my LS-10 for a couple of days now. It is a very nicely made machine, but there is one problem: the Line-in doesn't work at well with external mics and pre-amp.
I made some recordings using Sonic Studios DSM6S-EH mics and a Sonic Studios PA-3SX preamp, plugged into the LS-10's Line-in. With two other recorders, a Nagra Ares M and a Zoom H2, this set-up has worked fine. Not so with the Olympus.
Although those mics are sensitive, and the PA-3SX was set to maximum gain, *and* the LS-10's rec level wheel was set to maximum, the sound levels recorded were still very low. This is really disappointing, as in other regards the LS-10 seems a well-thought-out bit of kit.
Reading the specs in the manual shows Line-in to have an impedance of 78k-Ohm. I have no technical expertise but from memory some other recorder specs have Line-in impedances of around 20k-Ohm. Maybe this is something to with the problem.
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LS-10's EIN is tested to be -121 dBu (A) according to
http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
The PCM-D50 is claimed to have EIN comparible to fr-2le.
Therefore, -129 dBu (A) would be a reference.
However, unless you use dynamic mics, there would be difference regarding to the EIN of the two preamps. Otherwise, the system would mostly be dominated by the self-noise of the condenser mics.
More information can be found in
http://www.rane.com/note148.html
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Emailed Olympus about the very low Line-in sensitivity. The reply basically said, "It's made that way, there's nothing you can do about it."
Have tried plugging the external mics and external pre-amp into the Mic socket and using the lowest settings, but the results aren't good that way either. Will probably try to sell the machine and get a Marantz PMD 620 or the new upgraded Edirol R-09.
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the sound levels recorded were still very low
As a matter of interest, how low is low? What did the recording actually peak to?
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I managed to push the levels to a mighty -12dB by shouting loudly into the mics from a distance of about 3 feet ;D That's with everything set to maximum on pre-amp and recorder.
But the low Line-in sensitivity aside, the LS-10 is good in other ways, so it'll be a shame to have to sell it.
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I don't recommend this recorder at all...... unless you're using it for what it was intended: ENG.
Even so, the Olympus is extremely noisy and very thin sounding. Check out the www.wingfieldaudio.com samples. These samples reflect the tonal quality your sound will reflect with a particular recorder.
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What do you recommend then because I'm eyeing this recorder? As per avisoft.com this recorder has a nice -121 dBu (A weighted) EIN. I was trying to decide between this recorder and R-09HR but I don't know R-09HR's EIN. So I'm sticking to this recorder. Just waiting for the price to drop down a little bit.
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Get an R09 or wait for the new R09HR. Either is head n' shoulders above this recorder as far as sound quality. Forget about the stats and go with what you hear.
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Emailed Olympus about the very low Line-in sensitivity. The reply basically said, "It's made that way, there's nothing you can do about it."
The line-in specs for the ls-10 seem to be reasonable, and I don't think the impedence is the problem. All I can think is that your particular ls-10 is defective, unless something has gone wrong with your mics or preamp. Can you try it with another input?
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@IanR: Sorry to hear about your negative experience with your equipment. Especially that also trying with the mic-in set to low didn't help either. What was the problem when going that way?
With my LS-10, I can only partly confirm this. As for input levels, yes the line-in is adjustable from quiet to just normal level, but if I want to rec really low line-levels, I can change to mic-in set to low which works very well here. Having this combined line-in range is more than sufficient for my needs.
@spyder9: What do you base "very noisy and thin sounding" on?
I already recorded two live classical concertos and did some experimental outside recordings. With "low-cut" set off, I find the sound to be natural, and completely with enough bass. As for the noise, I only notice it when mic-sense is set to high, but still all my earlier mini-disc recorders and the MT had much higher noise levels, so the LS-10 produces the least noise of all devices I've ever owned.
Best portability, and long-time mp3 recordings (@256mbps) are also important to me, that's why I didn't go for the D50. For my ears, the LS-10 records more than good, but maybe that's from someone who still used tape in his younger days :-)
My only small two complaints: The maximum output level is not extremely high, I'd appreciate if it went a little higher. And I hope the 2GB file limit for WAV (mp3s are 4GB strangely) will be corrected, even more as the manual states a 4GB limit for all files.
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Two things:
1. R-09 is a solid performer, based on what I've seen and heard of the LS-10, I'd recommend the R-09.
2. WAV has a 2 GB file limitation. WAV files larger than 2 GB are non-standard (though many apps will handle them now). The 4 GB limit is based on the file system (in this case FAT32)
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2. WAV has a 2 GB file limitation. WAV files larger than 2 GB are non-standard (though many apps will handle them now). The 4 GB limit is based on the file system (in this case FAT32)
I think the file limit is actually 4 GB. According to the wikipedia:
The WAV format is limited to files that are less than 4 GB in size, due to its use of a 32 bit unsigned integer to record the file size header (some programs limit the file size to 2-4 GB).
EDIT: For what it's worth, my recorder will record 4 GB files. At first, I was just running one file for a long show but now I break it into two at the set break or between songs. The huge files are pretty cumbersome to deal with, at least on my middling laptop. :)
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The line-in specs for the ls-10 seem to be reasonable, and I don't think the impedence is the problem. All I can think is that your particular ls-10 is defective, unless something has gone wrong with your mics or preamp. Can you try it with another input?
Hi there, I have tried my mic and pre-amp with three other recorders borrowed from work: a Nagra Ares M, a Marantz PMD 620 and (very briefly) a Zoom H2. They all worked fine. It could be that my particular LS-10 is defective but some of the reviews and comments on the Amazon.com pages for the LS-10 describe similar problems (should have read them before buying eh :-\). Would be good to try and compare results with another LS-10 though.
jboyzh: Thanks for your comments. Using the Mic socket is less than ideal as I can't plug my mics straight into the LS-10. They terminate in a mini-XLR and there are powering issues specific to DSM mics. So they have to go via the external pre-amp anyway. The result is over-sensitivity and an unacceptable amount of hiss.
However, recorded an interview last night using the LS-10's internal mics and the result sounded good. The machine's build quality, battery life, ergonomics and combination of 2Gb internal memory and SD card slot are all excellent too.
(http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/artikelen/36/olympus-ls-10.jpg)
". . . and how long have you been a treefrog?"
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@spyder9: What do you base "very noisy and thin sounding" on?
I've owned the Zoom H4, Marantz PMD620, Sony PCM-D50, Tascam DR-1, Edirol R-1, and Edirol R09. IMO, the R09 sounds best, followed by the 620 as a close 2nd.
Click the link below and check out the samples.
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-sound-samples.html
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@spyder9: What do you base "very noisy and thin sounding" on?
I've owned the Zoom H4, Marantz PMD620, Sony PCM-D50, Tascam DR-1, Edirol R-1, and Edirol R09. IMO, the R09 sounds best, followed by the 620 as a close 2nd.
Click the link below and check out the samples.
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-sound-samples.html
SLUT! >:D ;D
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:lol: :turnevil:
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@spyder9: What do you base "very noisy and thin sounding" on?
I've owned the Zoom H4, Marantz PMD620, Sony PCM-D50, Tascam DR-1, Edirol R-1, and Edirol R09. IMO, the R09 sounds best, followed by the 620 as a close 2nd.
Click the link below and check out the samples.
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-sound-samples.html
Seems to me you had a Tascam HD P2 for a while...based on the list though, I think it was an honest oversight. 8)
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True, but the P2 is a full size recorder. The above are handheld recorders. Totally different animal(s).
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@spyder9: What do you base "very noisy and thin sounding" on?
I've owned the Zoom H4, Marantz PMD620, Sony PCM-D50, Tascam DR-1, Edirol R-1, and Edirol R09. IMO, the R09 sounds best, followed by the 620 as a close 2nd.
Click the link below and check out the samples.
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-sound-samples.html
Not much to argue against this list :-) and I also understand what you mean by checking wingfieldaudio. It's true IMO that the internal mics of the LS-10 do sound quite bright. For classical concerts, I use an external mic anyway which yelds some deeper sound. Compared to other handhelds, I don't think noise is an issue with the LS-10 however.
After all, I can hear sound character and noise depend more on the mic than the recorder itself; check those samples:
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-noise.html
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The DR-1 sounds pretty good in those noise samples. Warmest sound of the bunch.
To add, where can I get one of those FEL 3.5 thingamabobs in the States?
http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/products/fel3.5series.html
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LS-10 measurements. These were taken from the headphone output of the recorder I will post tests of the actual wav files when I get around to making them. There are clearly issues with using the mic input as far as low frequency response is concerned. I think they limited the low end of the mic input to prevent overload of the built in speakers...That's my theory anyway.
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I think they limited the low end of the mic input to prevent overload of the built in speakers...That's my theory anyway.
I think it's more that the LS-10 is a small recorder that will often be used outdoors for interview work and the bass roll-off was put in to minimise wind and handling noise.
Either that, or that was the circuit compromise they had to do to maximise battery life - ie: putting in a full frequency response mic. pre. required components with a higher current drain.
That's my theory anyway.
If the answer was the former, I wish they had made it switchable.
Oh - thanks for the graphs, by the way, very useful.
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I think they limited the low end of the mic input to prevent overload of the built in speakers...That's my theory anyway.
I think it's more that the LS-10 is a small recorder that will often be used outdoors for interview work and the bass roll-off was put in to minimise wind and handling noise.
Either that, or that was the circuit compromise they had to do to maximise battery life - ie: putting in a full frequency response mic. pre. required components with a higher current drain.
That's my theory anyway.
If the answer was the former, I wish they had made it switchable.
Oh - thanks for the graphs, by the way, very useful.
The other thing I found out is the line input is at unity gain when the input level is at 10. I have been trying to get a schematic from Olympus but no luck if I can see the schematic I might be able to see where the HPF is in the circuit and remove it. I think if the bass roll off can be fixed it would be a good thing. It might be firmware based. But I am thinking its a few caps.
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I think they limited the low end of the mic input to prevent overload of the built in speakers...That's my theory anyway.
I think it's more that the LS-10 is a small recorder that will often be used outdoors for interview work and the bass roll-off was put in to minimise wind and handling noise.
Either that, or that was the circuit compromise they had to do to maximise battery life - ie: putting in a full frequency response mic. pre. required components with a higher current drain.
That's my theory anyway.
If the answer was the former, I wish they had made it switchable.
Oh - thanks for the graphs, by the way, very useful.
The other thing I found out is the line input is at unity gain when the input level is at 10. I have been trying to get a schematic from Olympus but no luck if I can see the schematic I might be able to see where the HPF is in the circuit and remove it. I think if the bass roll off can be fixed it would be a good thing. It might be firmware based. But I am thinking its a few caps.
In 4 hours I´ll tape a show using the internals/then dpa4061 on mic-in with bbox and plugin-power OFF/and the 3rd part of the show on line-in.
To get an idea how this unit´s internal bass-roll-off(internals and mic-in) works with "bassy" DPA mics. Might be a wanted roll-off using 4061s. Nevertheless you can boost low-frequenecies in post. I guess mic-in´s sensitivity won´t have any problems also at loud rock shows with low-sens DPA 4061s.
3 samples to come tomorrow.... ;).
I recorded from Radio on LINE-in yesterday and had to use gain 7 (of 10) for levels peaking at -1.
Chris, how do you like the ls-10´ look and feel? ;)
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I think they limited the low end of the mic input to prevent overload of the built in speakers...That's my theory anyway.
I think it's more that the LS-10 is a small recorder that will often be used outdoors for interview work and the bass roll-off was put in to minimise wind and handling noise.
Either that, or that was the circuit compromise they had to do to maximise battery life - ie: putting in a full frequency response mic. pre. required components with a higher current drain.
That's my theory anyway.
If the answer was the former, I wish they had made it switchable.
Oh - thanks for the graphs, by the way, very useful.
The other thing I found out is the line input is at unity gain when the input level is at 10. I have been trying to get a schematic from Olympus but no luck if I can see the schematic I might be able to see where the HPF is in the circuit and remove it. I think if the bass roll off can be fixed it would be a good thing. It might be firmware based. But I am thinking its a few caps.
In 4 hours I´ll tape a show using the internals/then dpa4061 on mic-in with bbox and plugin-power OFF/and the 3rd part of the show on line-in.
To get an idea how this unit´s internal bass-roll-off(internals and mic-in) works with "bassy" DPA mics. Might be a wanted roll-off using 4061s. Nevertheless you can boost low-frequenecies in post. I guess mic-in´s sensitivity won´t have any problems also at loud rock shows with low-sens DPA 4061s.
3 samples to come tomorrow.... ;).
I recorded from Radio on LINE-in yesterday and had to use gain 7 (of 10) for levels peaking at -1.
Chris, how do you like the ls-10´ look and feel? ;)
Its a very well built unit I would not use the mic input I would use the line input.. And then put the bass roll off after. Its extremely quiet I am going to be selling the one I have because I have done the tests I needed to do with it but its a nice recorder. I suspect this recorder is built by Panasonic not Olympus there is so many Panasonic parts inside its not funny not to mention the fact it came with Panasonic batteries. I would say its one of the best little recorders out there its got a great vu meter with good ballistics.. You can rely on the metering system. And the battery consumption is amazing No need for an external pack with this baby for sure atleast 10 hours on a single pair of AA's
Chris
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Just returned from my 1st testrun with the ls-10.
Small club and a rock/blues band was playing.
I started with dpa4061+bbox on MIC-IN, after 1 hour I switched to line-in but only for a short period - as supposed not enough output from the 4061s ...pushed the level to max. 10 and still peaks at only -20 to -16.
Then I switched to internal mics for some minutes and went home :) .
Conclusion: with dpa4061 the internal bass-roll-off of the ls-10 is perfect :) on mic-in.
For big arenas with higher SPLs LINE-IN (without roll-off) might be an option with 4061-alike low-sens mics.
Of course high-sens mics like dpa 4060ies or sp-cmc-8 should work fine on line-in, which is really quite INsensitive ;).
The internals sound fine too and the roll-off is really not too bad at and easy to boost in case you think it should be more.
Amazing low noise on all 3 tests.
sample 1: 24bit/44.1kHz => mp3 256kbit/s VBR lame 3.8
dpa4061+bbox on mic-in
post: normalization to -0,1db with Adobe Audition 3.0
LS10-dpa4061_bbox on mic-in.mp3 - 3.08MB (http://www.zshare.net/audio/202339170384cded/)
LINE-IN sample 24bit 44.1kHz =>mp3 256kbit/s VBR lame 3.8
normalized
LS10-dpa4061_bbox on LINE-IN.mp3 - 3.13MB (http://www.zshare.net/audio/202341744b110b66/)
INTERNAL Mics sample: 24bit 44.1kHz=>mp3 256kbit/s VBR lame 3.8
ls10-internal mics-lowsens-lowcutoff-normalized
http://www.zshare.net/audio/2023444371cdd7f7/
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Just returned from my 1st testrun with the ls-10.
Small club and a rock/blues band was playing.
I started with dpa4061+bbox on MIC-IN, after 1 hour I switched to line-in but only for a short period - as supposed not enough output from the 4061s ...pushed the level to max. 10 and still peaks at only -20 to -16.
Then I switched to internal mics for some minutes and went home :) .
Conclusion: with dpa4061 the internal bass-roll-off of the ls-10 is perfect :) on mic-in.
For big arenas with higher SPLs LINE-IN (without roll-off) might be an option with 4061-alike low-sens mics.
Of course high-sens mics like dpa 4060ies or sp-cmc-8 should work fine on line-in, which is really quite INsensitive ;).
The internals sound fine too and the roll-off is really not too bad at and easy to boost in case you think it should be more.
Amazing low noise on all 3 tests.
Now you need a preamp and you will be at 0 :) with the line input :)
Chris
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Just returned from my 1st testrun with the ls-10.
Amazing low noise on all 3 tests.
What about the high noise ( the recorded music ;D ;D)?
Amazing too?
Let me know and take care, my friend.
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Just returned from my 1st testrun with the ls-10.
Small club and a rock/blues band was playing.
I started with dpa4061+bbox on MIC-IN, after 1 hour I switched to line-in but only for a short period - as supposed not enough output from the 4061s ...pushed the level to max. 10 and still peaks at only -20 to -16.
Then I switched to internal mics for some minutes and went home :) .
Conclusion: with dpa4061 the internal bass-roll-off of the ls-10 is perfect :) on mic-in.
For big arenas with higher SPLs LINE-IN (without roll-off) might be an option with 4061-alike low-sens mics.
Of course high-sens mics like dpa 4060ies or sp-cmc-8 should work fine on line-in, which is really quite INsensitive ;).
The internals sound fine too and the roll-off is really not too bad at and easy to boost in case you think it should be more.
Amazing low noise on all 3 tests.
Now you need a preamp and you will be at 0 :) with the line input :)
Chris
I got 2 preamps Chris :) , SP-PREAMP and MM-PREAMP :).
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Samples online on page 6 of this thread.
Normalization with Adobe Audition 3.0 but nothing else was done.
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Samples online on page 6 of this thread.
Normalization with Adobe Audition 3.0 but nothing else was done.
Sounds really, really great,Arni.
The Line In sample is my favorite.
P.S.: This club has a very good PA and sound guy! Of course you know where the sweet spot is, but
the sound on your samples is always clean and the instrument mix is perfect. You're a lucky guy!
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I'm wondering if anyone has disassembled the LS-10 (perhaps Chris, as he mentioned that it is likely made by Panasonic due to the prevalence of Panasonic parts). I removed the front and back plates (and was very impressed with the quality of construction) but I decided leave further disassembly for another time. Beyond my curiosity to see inside, I'd like to shorten the microphone cages to reduce the protrusion. So, as it wasn't clear to me on initial inspection, can anyone advise as to how the microphone cages are attached?
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Samples online on page 6 of this thread.
Normalization with Adobe Audition 3.0 but nothing else was done.
Sounds really, really great,Arni.
The Line In sample is my favorite.
P.S.: This club has a very good PA and sound guy! Of course you know where the sweet spot is, but
the sound on your samples is always clean and the instrument mix is perfect. You're a lucky guy!
The LINE-IN sample was amplified ~+20dB.
With dpa4060s or sp-cmc-8 or your HLSC mics line-in won´t be an issue.
:)
Or as Chris said, low-sens mics like my dpa4061s+preamp on line-in.
Here the technical equipment of this club:
http://www.reigen.at/Download/RGLV_Technical%20Rider0808.pdf
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I'm wondering if anyone has disassembled the LS-10 (perhaps Chris, as he mentioned that it is likely made by Panasonic due to the prevalence of Panasonic parts).
Yeah, like any good techie, Chris takes all of his toys apart. He will probably know how that mic bodies are attached, but I think his main curiosity right now is why the low end response through the mic input is so much worse than through the line input. My bet is that he'll find coupling caps that are too small (electrically) in the front end of the mic path. I also bet he'll find that it's going to be pretty hard to replace them with caps whose capacitance is much higher, due to space constraints. No bigger than that thing is, it's got to be packed pretty tightly.
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Samples online on page 6 of this thread.
Normalization with Adobe Audition 3.0 but nothing else was done.
Sounds really, really great,Arni.
The Line In sample is my favorite.
P.S.: This club has a very good PA and sound guy! Of course you know where the sweet spot is, but
the sound on your samples is always clean and the instrument mix is perfect. You're a lucky guy!
The LINE-IN sample was amplified ~+20dB. Am sure silent parts would show white noise due to low-peaks.
With dpa4060s or sp-cmc-8 or your HLSC mics line-in won´t be an issue.
:)
Or as Chris said, low-sens mics like my dpa4061s+preamp on line-in.
Here the technical equipment of this club:
http://www.reigen.at/Download/RGLV_Technical%20Rider0808.pdf
Great info, Arni.
Thanks for sharing :coolguy:
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here another sample from the Steve Lukather concert:
sp-cmc-8/bbox/line-in
07 07 Steve Weingart Solo.mp3 - 5.26MB (http://www.zshare.net/audio/20286239b3894f12/)
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Started a battery-life test yesterday on my ls-10.
2x Sanyo 2700mAh rechargeables 1,2V
15 hours yet at 44,1kHz 16bit and still running.....recording radio on line-in
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Started a battery-life test yesterday on my ls-10.
2x Sanyo 2700mAh rechargeables 1,2V
15 hours yet at 44,1kHz 16bit and still running.....recording radio on line-in
I knew it was good, but I hadn't realised it was *that* good. ;D
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Just taped some minutes of a "school-band" with my sp-cmc-8 cardioids(standard sensitivity) + bbox on LINE-IN of the ls-10.
Used 10/10 full gain.
Nice levels in a small club peaking between -12 and -6.
Now I did some bass boost in post and also the silent parts with talking only show extremely low noise(actually I can´t hear any noise!) although i used full gain.
=>Don´t fear using 100% (10/10) gain on the ls-10´s LINE-IN ;) .
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info-update:
With a 16GB-SD(HC)-card(Transcend), the max. recording time(2GB limit) at 24bit 44.1kHz increases from 2h09min to 2h 15min compared to a 2GB SD-card or the built in 2GB flash-memory.
Don´t ask me why ::)!?
I don´t want to miss the analog rec-level-wheel anymore, much more convenient than digital buttons IMHO.
With 16GB+2GB internal, there´s plenty of space:
3h22min x 9(at 16bit 44.1kHz)=>30,3 hours or 2h15min x 9(at 24bit 44.1kHz)=>20,25 hours.
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info-update:
With a 16GB-SD(HC)-card(Transcend), the max. recording time(2GB limit) at 24bit 44.1kHz increases from 2h09min to 2h 15min compared to a 2GB SD-card or the built in 2GB flash-memory.
Don´t ask me why ::)!?
Because with a > 2GB card, there is a full 2 gigabytes available to each file, where a gigabyte is 1024 megabytes and a megabyte is 1024 bytes.
By contrast, on what is legally sold as a 2 "gigabyte" card, they are measuring capacity assuming 1 GB = 1000 MB and 1 MB = 1000 bytes.
(1024x1024)/(1000x1000) = 1.049
135 minutes / 129 minutes = 1.046
The slop can be accounted for by rounding error, and perhaps settings or other hidden files taking up a couple bytes that make even less of the 2 GB card available.
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Another thing that should be mentioned:
When using a 16GB SD card and you turn on the ls-10, the boot-up takes considerably longer....about 15sec.
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Another thing that should be mentioned:
When using a 16GB SD card and you turn on the ls-10, the boot-up takes considerably longer....about 15sec.
I use an 8GB SDHC card - I think that two 8GB cards are cheaper than a single 16GB.
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Prices for 8GB continue to fall. I saw several deals for 8GB Class 6 SDHC for $16 USD
over the weekend.
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Hi!
I've been trying out my LS-10 with two different setups:
* CA14s > CA-9100 > LS-10 (line in)
* Core Sound cardioids > Sonic Studios PA-3SX-U > LS-10 (line in)
For both of these setups I need to have a very loud sound source to get decent levels, even with the LS-10 rec volume on 10. Is this normal? Anyone else has had the same problem?
-Colargol
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Hi!
I've been trying out my LS-10 with two different setups:
* CA14s > CA-9100 > LS-10 (line in)
* Core Sound cardioids > Sonic Studios PA-3SX-U > LS-10 (line in)
For both of these setups I need to have a very loud sound source to get decent levels, even with the LS-10 rec volume on 10. Is this normal? Anyone else has had the same problem?
-Colargol
The ls-10 does not provide any gain what so ever in the line input, As a matter of fact you have to set the level control to 10 in order to get unity gain. I suggest setting the mic input sensitivity to low and the plug in power off then use my preamp on the mic input with all the gains down low.
Chris
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Hi!
I've been trying out my LS-10 with two different setups:
* CA14s > CA-9100 > LS-10 (line in)
* Core Sound cardioids > Sonic Studios PA-3SX-U > LS-10 (line in)
For both of these setups I need to have a very loud sound source to get decent levels, even with the LS-10 rec volume on 10. Is this normal? Anyone else has had the same problem?
-Colargol
The ls-10 does not provide any gain what so ever in the line input, As a matter of fact you have to set the level control to 10 in order to get unity gain. I suggest setting the mic input sensitivity to low and the plug in power off then use my preamp on the mic input with all the gains down low.
Chris
But that mic input has that strange bass-roll-off feature that I would not want, right? Maybe I'll have to use my R09 for a while still...
If Olympus could fix the line input level and 2gb file limit, it would be an awesome recorder... Right now it does not seem like one...
-Colargol
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Hi!
I've been trying out my LS-10 with two different setups:
* CA14s > CA-9100 > LS-10 (line in)
* Core Sound cardioids > Sonic Studios PA-3SX-U > LS-10 (line in)
For both of these setups I need to have a very loud sound source to get decent levels, even with the LS-10 rec volume on 10. Is this normal? Anyone else has had the same problem?
-Colargol
The ls-10 does not provide any gain what so ever in the line input, As a matter of fact you have to set the level control to 10 in order to get unity gain. I suggest setting the mic input sensitivity to low and the plug in power off then use my preamp on the mic input with all the gains down low.
Chris
But that mic input has that strange bass-roll-off feature that I would not want, right? Maybe I'll have to use my R09 for a while still...
If Olympus could fix the line input level and 2gb file limit, it would be an awesome recorder... Right now it does not seem like one...
-Colargol
That is the reason I got rid of mine. It was a great recorder for voice but that stupid roll off on the low end for the mic input was crazy and the line input not having any gain what so ever was also crazy. It seems it was designed for recording a headphone output from a cd player and nothing more. And the built in mics sound like crap for another other then speech and even then I find the speech to be totaly unnatural sounding and thin.
The self noise is very low but hell anyone can make a recorder with no self noise if they DONT PUT ANY GAIN STAGE INTO IT :)
Chris
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Use high-sens mics like standard SP-CMC-8 +bbox on line-in.
No problem for amplified concerts with that setup.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=212223&hit=1
OR low-sens mics like yours or dpa 4061 + preamp on line-in.
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Use high-sens mics like standard SP-CMC-8 +bbox on line-in.
No problem for amplified concerts with that setup.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=212223&hit=1
OR low-sens mics like yours or dpa 4061 + preamp on line-in.
If you dont mind losing all that bottom end in your recordings by all means use the mic input for mics like the DPA 4060 it might not be such a bad thing but for Cardioid mics like the 853 or my mics you dont want to lose any bottom end at all. And at almost 20 db down at 25hz... you really dont want to lose all that even before you start recording. * as can be seen in the purple line *
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Use high-sens mics like standard SP-CMC-8 +bbox on line-in.
No problem for amplified concerts with that setup.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=212223&hit=1
OR low-sens mics like yours or dpa 4061 + preamp on line-in.
If you dont mind losing all that bottom end in your recordings by all means use the mic input for mics like the DPA 4060 it might not be such a bad thing but for Cardioid mics like the 853 or my mics you dont want to lose any bottom end at all. And at almost 20 db down at 25hz... you really dont want to lose all that even before you start recording. * as can be seen in the purple line *
yes, for my dpa 4061 setup mic-in is no problem as the bass-roll off is not bad for these boomy mics.
With sp-cmc-8 mics Line-In works great aswell.
I knew about the mic-in and internal-mic bass-roll-off before I purchased the ls-10.
I´d go line-in with just a bbox and my sp-cmc-8 for loud rock shows and it works great as you can hear in the Steve Lukather sample above from dimeadozen(NOT my recording though).
Additionally I can use my SP-PREAMP and even record speech on line-in ...with lotsa gain from thy external pre :) of course.
The result still sounds great though.
=> no issue at all for me using the ls-10.
::)
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Use high-sens mics like standard SP-CMC-8 +bbox on line-in.
No problem for amplified concerts with that setup.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=212223&hit=1
OR low-sens mics like yours or dpa 4061 + preamp on line-in.
If you dont mind losing all that bottom end in your recordings by all means use the mic input for mics like the DPA 4060 it might not be such a bad thing but for Cardioid mics like the 853 or my mics you dont want to lose any bottom end at all. And at almost 20 db down at 25hz... you really dont want to lose all that even before you start recording. * as can be seen in the purple line *
yes, for my dpa 4061 setup mic-in is no problem as the bass-roll off is not bad for these boomy mics.
With sp-cmc-8 mics Line-In works great aswell.
I knew about the mic-in and internal-mic bass-roll-off before I purchased the ls-10.
I´d go line-in with just a bbox and my sp-cmc-8 for loud rock shows and it works great as you can hear in the Steve Lukather sample above from dimeadozen(NOT my recording though).
Additionally I can use my SP-PREAMP and even record speech on line-in ...with lotsa gain from thy external pre :) of course.
The result still sounds great though.
=> no issue at all for me using the ls-10.
::)
Well if you take into consideration that your mics are going to be somewhere around -38 to -35 db with a acoustic level of around 105 db that's a whole lot of gain to make up...... I just personally think the R09HR is a much better recorder. And since I did own a ls-10 and now own a hr I can say that with certainty. Not to mention the better signal to noise specs on the HR.
Chris
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Use high-sens mics like standard SP-CMC-8 +bbox on line-in.
No problem for amplified concerts with that setup.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=212223&hit=1
OR low-sens mics like yours or dpa 4061 + preamp on line-in.
If you dont mind losing all that bottom end in your recordings by all means use the mic input for mics like the DPA 4060 it might not be such a bad thing but for Cardioid mics like the 853 or my mics you dont want to lose any bottom end at all. And at almost 20 db down at 25hz... you really dont want to lose all that even before you start recording. * as can be seen in the purple line *
yes, for my dpa 4061 setup mic-in is no problem as the bass-roll off is not bad for these boomy mics.
With sp-cmc-8 mics Line-In works great aswell.
I knew about the mic-in and internal-mic bass-roll-off before I purchased the ls-10.
I´d go line-in with just a bbox and my sp-cmc-8 for loud rock shows and it works great as you can hear in the Steve Lukather sample above from dimeadozen(NOT my recording though).
Additionally I can use my SP-PREAMP and even record speech on line-in ...with lotsa gain from thy external pre :) of course.
The result still sounds great though.
=> no issue at all for me using the ls-10.
::)
Well if you take into consideration that your mics are going to be somewhere around -38 to -35 db with a acoustic level of around 105 db that's a whole lot of gain to make up...... I just personally think the R09HR is a much better recorder. And since I did own a ls-10 and now own a hr I can say that with certainty. Not to mention the better signal to noise specs on the HR.
Chris
I ´ve also tested the R09HR for some weeks but like the ls-10 more.
Of course it always depends what you intend to record and what mics you are using.
I like the look and feel of the ls-10 more.
Both a great recorders for sure.
;)
-
Use high-sens mics like standard SP-CMC-8 +bbox on line-in.
No problem for amplified concerts with that setup.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=212223&hit=1
OR low-sens mics like yours or dpa 4061 + preamp on line-in.
If you dont mind losing all that bottom end in your recordings by all means use the mic input for mics like the DPA 4060 it might not be such a bad thing but for Cardioid mics like the 853 or my mics you dont want to lose any bottom end at all. And at almost 20 db down at 25hz... you really dont want to lose all that even before you start recording. * as can be seen in the purple line *
yes, for my dpa 4061 setup mic-in is no problem as the bass-roll off is not bad for these boomy mics.
With sp-cmc-8 mics Line-In works great aswell.
I knew about the mic-in and internal-mic bass-roll-off before I purchased the ls-10.
I´d go line-in with just a bbox and my sp-cmc-8 for loud rock shows and it works great as you can hear in the Steve Lukather sample above from dimeadozen(NOT my recording though).
Additionally I can use my SP-PREAMP and even record speech on line-in ...with lotsa gain from thy external pre :) of course.
The result still sounds great though.
=> no issue at all for me using the ls-10.
::)
Well if you take into consideration that your mics are going to be somewhere around -38 to -35 db with a acoustic level of around 105 db that's a whole lot of gain to make up...... I just personally think the R09HR is a much better recorder. And since I did own a ls-10 and now own a hr I can say that with certainty. Not to mention the better signal to noise specs on the HR.
Chris
I ´ve also tested the R09HR for some weeks but like the ls-10 more.
Of course it always depends what you intend to record and what mics you are using.
I like the look and feel of the ls-10 more.
Both a great recorders for sure.
;)
I wish the R09 was built like the LS-10 For sure the LS10 is built very well. I tried finding out what surface mount caps were in the signal path so I could maybe replace them I suspect thats the problem with the low end roll off. Its always a compromise when you use surface mount caps and need to make something small its very hard to find tiny Mylar or other quality surface mount caps that are high in value say 5 to 10uf. I think if they can fix this flaw it could be a great recorder also adding at least 20 db of gain to the line input would be nice maybe they can fix these things in firmware.
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I´ll tape a blues-rock-show in a 300 people club tomorrow with the internals only and boost low frequencies in post.
Tried that yet some weeks ago and the result was great to my ears. Better than the dpa4061 recording from the same show.
The internals-bass-boosted result was much more sharp edged sounding with less boominess and still great low-end after the boost.
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Just don't understand why the LS-10 was designed with the Line-in with the way it is. I've emailed Olympus about this but the reply basically said 'That's the way it is, there's nothing that can be done about it.'
But it works fine for recording in noisy environments. And the battery life is excellent unlike my R09HR, which eats through them like there's no tomorrow.
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Battery life for my 09HR is pretty good. A pair of Duracell Ultras last thru a 4 hour show and still have more than a half a life left. And that is with another deck or headphones patched into it. When you turn down the display and kill the red blinking record light, it does save a lot of energy. I also used regular Duracells at a 4 hour show recently, patched in another deck and came home with a 1/3 life left. In general, I don't see any need to go more than 5 hours of taping for any show I see. Of course I don't use re-chargeables. Can't trust them...
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I´ll tape a blues-rock-show in a 300 people club tomorrow with the internals only and boost low frequencies in post.
Tried that yet some weeks ago and the result was great to my ears. Better than the dpa4061 recording from the same show.
The internals-bass-boosted result was much more sharp edged sounding with less boominess and still great low-end after the boost.
Use my graph to create a boost model so you can put it all back... If you use a parametric eq and adjust the q properly and the center frequency you should be able to use 2 bands and get the bottom end to be flat again..
Chris
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Just don't understand why the LS-10 was designed with the Line-in with the way it is. I've emailed Olympus about this but the reply basically said 'That's the way it is, there's nothing that can be done about it.'
But it works fine for recording in noisy environments. And the battery life is excellent unlike my R09HR, which eats through them like there's no tomorrow.
Its a huge design flaw in my opinion they could have made a product that knocked the R09 off its perch but failed miserably when it comes to the mic preamp design and the sound of the internal mics makes the Zoom h2 sound like a Neumann.
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I´ll tape a blues-rock-show in a 300 people club tomorrow with the internals only and boost low frequencies in post.
Tried that yet some weeks ago and the result was great to my ears. Better than the dpa4061 recording from the same show.
The internals-bass-boosted result was much more sharp edged sounding with less boominess and still great low-end after the boost.
Use my graph to create a boost model so you can put it all back... If you use a parametric eq and adjust the q properly and the center frequency you should be able to use 2 bands and get the bottom end to be flat again..
Chris
Thx Chris, last time I did +10db(or +12db) up to 200Hz and it sounded really nice.
Usually I mess around with bass boost until i like the result.
Actually I like the ls-10 internals more than the R09HR internals which are real omnis.
The LS-10 internals are cardioids which I realized last time when I changed the position(angle towards stage) of the ls-10 just a little bit => the result was totally different.
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here's my result, recorded from right infront of the speaker
csc's > bbox > ls-10 (line-in) > wav > normalized > mp3
listen here: http://www.zshare.net/audio/513256657a48b079/
I can't complain...
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Retro Dude, what band is that? I really dig the sound.
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Retro Dude, what band is that? I really dig the sound.
Tito & Tarantula
if anyone is interested in more recordings made by me with the LS-10 check here (http://www.retrodudetapes.com)
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...bumping an old thread...
So, unity on LS-10 is 10 on Line In. Don't use mic in @ all.
Explains why some of my stuff sounds so thin from last year.
Also, has anyone noticed that using google to search TS.com is much more efficient? ;)