Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: jb3newbie on November 05, 2003, 11:25:33 PM
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Looking to get some mics in the near future. Dont have a budget planned out but there will be one in place. I just want to know what is everyones fav. mics. I know the easiest way to find your own fav. is to listen to diff. sources. I have listened to quite a few tapes and so far I am partial to Neumans (sp) , but I have heard some great FOB recordings with Schoeps (sp). But when they are running from the "Tapers Section" I find them a bit too basey (is that a word?)
what is your fav?
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I'd take several things into account when choosing mics.
#1 is if they sound good. That's obvious. I'm also partial to the Neumann's. I've patched into a few of them and I really like the KM184's. They aren't obscenely expensive. You're still talking $2000-ish with a preamp that is appropriate for them. I've also patched into some smaller Neumans the I like for reason #2. Don't recall the model # on them, but I'm sure someone could help me out on that one.
#2 (for me) is size. Many of the bands that I like don't allow taping or forget to inform the venue that they do. I'm leaning toward the DPA 4061's. I don't think there's anything smaller than those (at least that sound good). Not sure what route I'm going with to power them. I'd like to use them with my JB3 because I can play it off as my "walkman that doesn't record" if anyone finds it on the way in (when I shouldn't have it). Seems like the Core-Sound High End Binaural set is the way to go. I've been happy with my regular CS binaurals. I've heard the High End version is much better.
If you're looking for a deal I've been very happy with my Oktava MC012's > UA5. Best sound for the buck IMO.
Well, thats my 2 cents.
MIKE B
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+T to team AKG, good mics for great prices... i like them cause they are flat, and sound pretty natural, although hearing some of daryan's tapes with his geffels, i like them very much...
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Buy my Earthworks SR77s (see Yard Sale thread)!
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Buy my Earthworks SR77s (see Yard Sale thread)!
Great sound, Earthworks were my first mics.
I'd look into AKG bluelines, ADK (not sure of model #'s), Oktavas... a budget would definately help us out.
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Royer Ribbons - best transient response and detail of any mic I've heard, liked it even better than the Stephen Paul modded SM69 that we did a comparison with. Unfortunatly, to fragile for taping, though I used it several times. I am very happy with my Josephsons now, what they lose in transient response against the Royer they make up for in extreme high-frequency clarity and detail, and the price is right at around $1000 per pair, I'd put them up against any current small diaphram condenser mic. The new Stephen Paul mics are on their way, they should be interesting, and I can't wait.
peace, chris
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I love schoeps, that is no secret, but trust what your ears like, not what others tell you sounds good.
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buy the adk 51tl's. dont be afraid of the large dia's. the multi pattern option is fun to play with. plus they are a great value.
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yea i like the switchable multi pattern option, like lee said, check out some AKG blueline sources, i love my 391's can't beat it for the $$$. good luck man. and +T's all around
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Soundfield ST-250!!! I got mine about a month ago and have come out with some somewhat displeasing results, but I've about got it figured out. There is no other mic on the planet that comes close to the 3D imaging this mic provides. If you want to hear a sample go to digitalpanic.org and download the 11-1-03 show. UNBELIEVABLE QUALITY! Deep down, most taper's goal is to pull the best tapes out of say 30-40 rigs, well this mic is the way to do it.
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>> Deep down, most taper's goal is to pull the best tapes out of say 30-40 rigs, well this mic is the way to do it.<<
your opinion :)
(others may beg to differ....)
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most taper's goal is to pull the best tapes out of say 30-40 rigs,
I sincerely hope that is not the goal of "most" tapers. i feel sorry for any taper that's out there just to have the best sounding tape. that just seems dumb to me. of course you want it to sound good-so you buy the best gear your money can get-but for me it's just having the the ability to record shows and have them at my disposal to listen and spread.
the other goal is to help spread Missouri music ;D
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Soundfield ST-250!!! I got mine about a month ago and have come out with some somewhat displeasing results, but I've about got it figured out. There is no other mic on the planet that comes close to the 3D imaging this mic provides. If you want to hear a sample go to digitalpanic.org and download the 11-1-03 show. UNBELIEVABLE QUALITY! Deep down, most taper's goal is to pull the best tapes out of say 30-40 rigs, well this mic is the way to do it.
pretty much any mic can pull a great tape if used properly, its all about the user combined with the environment, not the equipment
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I shouldn't have said "goal" I don't go to a show thinking, I've got to show all these other guys up or anything like that. But you can't deny that it is a great feeling knowing that you made the best tape. Spreading the music is important too. Creekfreek- you're pretty much saying equipment plays no role, huh, I wish I would've known that before I dropped that $10K into my rig, damn! ::)
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I shouldn't have said "goal" I don't go to a show thinking, I've got to show all these other guys up or anything like that. But you can't deny that it is a great feeling knowing that you made the best tape. Spreading the music is important too. Creekfreek- you're pretty much saying equipment plays no role, huh, I wish I would've known that before I dropped that $10K into my rig, damn! ::)
no, I am not saying that equipment plays no role, but just because one has the most expensive mic doesn't mean they pulled the best tape, and seriously, how do you really know if you did pull the best tape? Do you take a survey or something after the show? ;D
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But you can't deny that it is a great feeling knowing that you made the best tape.
Oh i'm sure it's great but i tape mostly local stuff where i am the only taper so i'm never in that situation really.
Except for The Dead 7/02/03 in St. Louis. Not too sure of this now but i know back when seeded it it was the only source going around for a few months. Not sure if beats any of the other rigs that were there but i think it sounds pretty damn good for a Lawn TS tape ;D
does it really matter? maybe for you since you spent $10k on a rig and that's how you justify spending that much...
EDIT: don't get me wrong i'm not trying to bust your balls or anything just curious if it really matters in the end?
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Soundfield is nice.
AllGood Fest in 2001 a friend of mine from Charlottesvile rented a Soundfield ST-250 and ran it into a AD1000. I patched a D8 out of him and clamped some 391's on his stand(we were WAY FOB-maybe 20+ feet in front of every other taper). I ran the 391> PS2> AD20> M1, and honestly, the 391 source sounds MUCH better than the Soundfield.
in this case Im chalking it to "user" instead of equipment as he didnt know the Soundfield that well(he ran 1 pair as Hyper and 1 pair as Card X/Y). dont get me wrong, the ST-250 sounded really good but had NO bass response at all(he didnt have any rolloff or HPF on)
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Soundfield ST-250!!! I got mine about a month ago and have come out with some somewhat displeasing results, but I've about got it figured out. There is no other mic on the planet that comes close to the 3D imaging this mic provides. If you want to hear a sample go to digitalpanic.org and download the 11-1-03 show. UNBELIEVABLE QUALITY! Deep down, most taper's goal is to pull the best tapes out of say 30-40 rigs, well this mic is the way to do it.
:jawdrop: wow... so many things in just one post!
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Soundfield is nice.
AllGood Fest in 2001 a friend of mine from Charlottesvile rented a Soundfield ST-250 and ran it into a AD1000. I patched a D8 out of him and clamped some 391's on his stand(we were WAY FOB-maybe 20+ feet in front of every other taper). I ran the 391> PS2> AD20> M1, and honestly, the 391 source sounds MUCH better than the Soundfield.
in this case Im chalking it to "user" instead of equipment as he didnt know the Soundfield that well(he ran 1 pair as Hyper and 1 pair as Card X/Y). dont get me wrong, the ST-250 sounded really good but had NO bass response at all(he didnt have any rolloff or HPF on)
That is the point I am trying to make, you can have the best gear in the world, but if you don't know how to use it........you get :sick: tapes ;D
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Soundfield ST-250!!! I got mine about a month ago and have come out with some somewhat displeasing results, but I've about got it figured out. There is no other mic on the planet that comes close to the 3D imaging this mic provides. If you want to hear a sample go to digitalpanic.org and download the 11-1-03 show. UNBELIEVABLE QUALITY! Deep down, most taper's goal is to pull the best tapes out of say 30-40 rigs, well this mic is the way to do it.
:jawdrop: wow... so many things in just one post!
come on gonads, let it rip ;D
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exactly creek! I mean you could have like $10,000 invested in a rig and still walk away making statements like this...
>>>>Soundfield ST-250!!! I got mine about a month ago and have come out with some somewhat displeasing results, but I've about got it figured out.<<<<<
so you make the best tapes? what's the playback gear that you utilize to make these assements?
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my rig, if bought new would cost upwards of $9k and I have made lots of bad tapes... of course I'll never let any of you hear them!
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I've made some just SHITTY tapes, and a few I'd put up there with some official releases. It's kinda like golfing, I think. Most of the time you suck, but once in a great while everything falls right. Perfect spot, good rig, good sound, no dumbasses yelling or falling into your shit, etc. My favorite all-time tapes might be from Panic 00 at Oak, Row 14 fob but WAY off center, 483>dmic.
Alltime favorite mic, dpa 4022. Transparent and flat, great ringing high end, love it.
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unless you are my dad when golfing, and never sucks
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exactly creek! I mean you could have like $10,000 invested in a rig and still walk away making statements like this...
>>>>Soundfield ST-250!!! I got mine about a month ago and have come out with some somewhat displeasing results, but I've about got it figured out.<<<<<
so you make the best tapes? what's the playback gear that you utilize to make these assements?
Just to let you know who you're talking to, NO i did not buy a soundfield a month ago and start taping. I have been taping with schoeps since '98 and after hearing the soundfield at its full potential sold all the schoeps caps/bodies/accessories I had accumulated and actually it came out cheaper for me to get the soundfield.
As far as my playback goes:
2 B&W 802's
2 B&W CDM9NT's
1 Arcam PV7
1 Arcam AV8
1 BelCanto DAC
1 Onkyo Universal disk player
1 Tascam DA-20MkII
And about $1500 connecting it
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but you admit there is a learning curve with new gear though right? so even though you've been taping since 98 you still had problems getting the soundfield dialed in, even though it's 10k, right?
your playback gear is solid! just suprised that someone with so much "experience" would make statements like the ones you made earlier. Everyone here is proud of their gear and tapes but self fluffing is lame...
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the golf analogy is a good one- when I play golf, 50% of the time I have a decent day, 35% of the time I have a horrible day, and the other 15% I kick ass. It's those 15% days that keep me coming back.
But 85% of my tapes never make it out of my work room
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but you admit there is a learning curve with new gear though right? so even though you've been taping since 98 you still had problems getting the soundfield dialed in, even though it's 10k, right?
your playback gear is solid! just suprised that someone with so much "experience" would make statements like the ones you made earlier. Everyone here is proud of their gear and tapes but self fluffing is lame...
1-yes there is a learning curve, I never said there wasn't
2-the soundfield doesn't cost $10k and yes it is a lil more complicated mic than the average
3-I don't need you to tell me my playback gear is solid!
4-I was not self fluffing (you may want to read the thread topic again and re-read my previous posts)
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didn't sound like self-fluffing to me. +T Wes
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I'm with Jbandtheboys.
The ST-250 is the best sounding and most virsitile microphone for stereo recording. Bar none.
Other peoples opinions are lacking the ownership experience, or have not heard many Soundfield recordings on a true high-end playback system.
Like any pair of mics, this single mic requires a certain level of skill and familiarity to produce the killer tapes.
it is truely a work of art, and easily the most sophistcated location recording microphone in the world. Thats why its used by the pros around the globe and remains virtualy unchanged in its design as the years go by.
But, $4250 is too much for this hobbie, IMO.
Still, i'm confident that given equal circumstances the ST-250 will outperform any stero pair of amost any mic on the surface of the earth.
However...it has limitations to, and doesnt shine in all applications. To make that happen you need to have a few years experience with it. I never got there pesonally, but talk to the Jeff Silbermans and Ron Kaisers of the world. They know!
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oh yea...
Still, my favorites are:
Neumann small diaphram mics. Love that squishy, wet sound they have to them
AKG small diaphram mics. Love that "sizzle" they have, especialy when recording WSP.
DPA omnis. Ooohhh so realistic.
DPA cards, Ooooohh so punchy
Anything set up in a blumlein pair.
That should narrow it down.
:)
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exactly creek! I mean you could have like $10,000 invested in a rig and still walk away making statements like this...
>>>>Soundfield ST-250!!! I got mine about a month ago and have come out with some somewhat displeasing results, but I've about got it figured out.<<<<<
so you make the best tapes? what's the playback gear that you utilize to make these assements?
One thing that really makes taping enjoyable is the lack of competition. I've always been somewhat disheartened by the competition that's so embedded in the performance of music (all the way from experiences in school bands to playing as an adult in rock bands), that I fully expected when I showed up with a newbie rig, people would laugh at me.
You know what -- they didn't. Even when I showed up (the first time I recorded a show other than my own) with a Sony ECM-MS907 and an (old, even) MD using a freakin' boom mike stand, the only thing that happened was a guy with a quality rig came over after a few minutes and said, "Hey -- why don't you patch that MD off me instead."
Not trying to rant here. I figure that "best tape" comment wasn't meant to indicate that he's trying to beat everyone else as much as just expressing that it's nice to know you got it right, as having a desirable source would indicate.
I think the "knowledge over gear" part of this thread is the best advice. Certainly better results can be had with a $4500 mic than with my $300 C1000s, but as someone new to 2-mic stereo field recording, maybe it's better for me to spend some of the $4200 on going to more shows and learning how things work. There's always time to get infected with GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) later. :)
In a number of threads (mostly started by njb3newbie, I see) I've recommended C1000s as starter mics, not as much because they're sonically superior to others in the price range (that's arguable and individual ears decide), but because of other practical reasons. They get a lot of bashing, most of which I think is undeserved. Maybe some of it is because it reminds people of what it was like getting started, not having the right gear, not knowing how to use it, etc. I have to admit that for a while after I got my Modulus bass I wasn't a big fan of my old Mexican Fender jazz. But now it's just a good old friend.
Sorry, everyone. Looks like you got the brunt of my morning rambling... :P
Chuck
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"I think the "knowledge over gear" part of this thread is the best advice. Certainly better results can be had with a $4500 mic than with my $300 C1000s, but as someone new to 2-mic stereo field recording, maybe it's better for me to spend some of the $4200 on going to more shows and learning how things work. There's always time to get infected with GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) later. "
IMO, the best way to spend $4k + in the taping world is to invest it into your stereo.
thats the conclusion I came to any way.
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"I think the "knowledge over gear" part of this thread is the best advice. Certainly better results can be had with a $4500 mic than with my $300 C1000s, but as someone new to 2-mic stereo field recording, maybe it's better for me to spend some of the $4200 on going to more shows and learning how things work. There's always time to get infected with GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) later. "
IMO, the best way to spend $4k + in the taping world is to invest it into your stereo.
thats the conclusion I came to any way.
agreed, a good play back system is key if one if going to enjoy one's recordings to the fullest....great gear and a shitty playback system really doesn't work too well.
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:lol: first time i've ever seen the st-250 suggested to a newbie looking for mic suggestions!
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yeah, its like when Grandma asks what is a good car to get her from home to the grocery store and she is told a Landrover with nitrous boosts :)
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:lol:
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yeah, its like when Grandma asks what is a good car to get her from home to the grocery store and she is told a Landrover with nitrous boosts :)
:lol: :nightfevah:
+t
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Some of my fav tapes done with Gefell 2000's, and AKG 393's.. totally different sound, but I like them both.
I've got a Melvins show done with some Neumann 184's that I like, but a show from the same tour done with a AT single point stereo sounds a little cleaner to me.
I've got a nirvana show taped with Schoeps CMC 44 + MK 4 -> PCM recorder that sounds great. But I prefer the ECM909a -> WM-D6 source of the same show.
All depends on what you like sound wise.
-Jim
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>>The ST-250 is the best sounding and most virsitile microphone for stereo recording. Bar none.
Other peoples opinions are lacking the ownership experience, or have not heard many Soundfield recordings on a true high-end playback system. <<
what if we have heard soundfield recordings on a high end system and still like other mics better? :)
>>Still, i'm confident that given equal circumstances the ST-250 will outperform any stero pair of amost any mic on the surface of the earth.
However...it has limitations to, and doesnt shine in all applications.<<
so what is it. it'll outperform everyone and shine in all situations, or it won't shine in all situations?
i'm just bored and messing with you. feel free to say "shut up scott." :)
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Scott, you beat me to it.
I think you may be overstating yourself just a tad fella's!
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I love schoeps, that is no secret, but trust what your ears like, not what others tell you sounds good.
the schoeps is strong in this one...
i like my km184's, love their sound, love their price. when i go for more it will be neuman ld's
jr
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"what if we have heard soundfield recordings on a high end system and still like other mics better? "
then you're obviously drunk
:)
overstating? me?
no way, never.
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You guys kill me, funny stuff.
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never been a fan of the soundfield ...i rather spend the 5k over at stephen pauls lab.never been fan of stereo mics either..but that's just me..
0.4 micron mylar baby!
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Royer Ribbons - best transient response and detail of any mic I've heard, liked it even better than the Stephen Paul modded SM69 that we did a comparison with. Unfortunatly, to fragile for taping, though I used it several times. I am very happy with my Josephsons now, what they lose in transient response against the Royer they make up for in extreme high-frequency clarity and detail, and the price is right at around $1000 per pair, I'd put them up against any current small diaphram condenser mic. The new Stephen Paul mics are on their way, they should be interesting, and I can't wait.
peace, chris
hah..another ribbon slut eh? just wanted to let you know wes dooley is releasing a stereo version r84
http://www.wesdooley.com/
to bad these things break easy...
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"what if we have heard soundfield recordings on a high end system and still like other mics better? "
then you're obviously drunk
:)
overstating? me?
no way, never.
just trying to kepe you honest ;) :)
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In a number of threads (mostly started by njb3newbie, I see) I've recommended C1000s as starter mics, not as much because they're sonically superior to others in the price range (that's arguable and individual ears decide), but because of other practical reasons. They get a lot of bashing, most of which I think is undeserved.
Both the AKG C1000 and Oktava MC-012 are great microphones for people starting out. If folks can spend a bit more the AKG 39x bluelines are another great option. However, there isn't any reason to spend 5K on a hobby starting out and the things that will kill you right out of the gate is microphones, preamp and/or A/D convertor.
I have some C1000 shows and they sound fine. They don't sound like 4k dollar mics, but they also don't sound as bad as some people make them out to be.
Wayne
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What Wes said.
That 11-1-2003 of his is a great example of what that mic is capable of.
I do not have many recordings in my collection that equal or exceed the quality of that one.
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wes I had no idea you had schoeps before I knew you?
wild stuff
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wes I had no idea you had schoeps before I knew you?
wild stuff
Obviously you don't know everything Trey. He was taping with them back in 1998.
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yeah i noticed, what happened to choose yer own mics, not pimp yerself?
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ADK A51s - great inexpensive mic - www.adkmic.com
How about the Rode NT4? I think that's th stereo mic and its not too expensive either...
Terry