Topic: Stereo portable mike for ambient electro-acoustic sound takes

[jlmlord]

Greetings to all ..

I am trying to open up the discussion here on my previous post  ...

My challenge is to find a good quality, easily portable stereo sound take kit for ambient and electro-acoustic stuff. All that (well) under 1000$.
I have an Edirol R-09, and a Digidesign MBOX for studio takes and mixing.

After reading several posts and doing some research on the www, I came to some conclusions about what is available :
1 - AT822, a stereo mike, the lowest cost option
2 - AT853a, which some of you recommend. A discontinued model, single channel, with a power pack, long wires, so not as portable.
3 - AT U853a, the replacement of the 853a, seems to have better performance, hyper-cardiod attachment, but already more expensive.
4 - NT4, a stereo mike, likely a good step above the AT822. By the time you add 2 U853as, you are at the same price level ... Is the quality comparable ?

Beyond that, there is a Shure VP88, but I think it stops there ...

So, what do you think about this ?

Cheers 

[stirinthesauce]

Greetings to all ..


2 - AT853a, which some of you recommend. A discontinued model, single channel, with a power pack, long wires, so not as portable.

Seems to me this would all fit just about in the palm of your hand, all very portable.  Cables can be shortened for use or wrapped in a neat coil secured with velcro, leaving just the needed length.  You said you have a limit of $1000 but would like to spend under.  Lots of options.  Mics require power, some 48v phantom power, others use and internal 9v or an external battery box (very small, size of a pack of cigs or smaller).  So I have to ask you, are you looking for a stereo mic, a stereo pair, mics running off of phantom power or are powered by internal battery? Mini mics ala AT 853, 943, dpa 406x, etc, pencil condesors which are full bodied but still very portable and small, a stereo mic with internal batts with fixed cap postition (at 822) or sp lsd2 which is a stereo mic well under a grand but with many patterns and cap options and is a stellar mic?  Your question could probablly be answered better if we had a more precise dollar amount and exactly what you are looking to use these for.  Then the options could be narrowed down for you.

[SunWizard]

Greetings to all ..
1 - AT822, a stereo mike, the lowest cost option
2 - AT853a, which some of you recommend. A discontinued model, single channel, with a power pack, long wires, so not as portable.
3 - AT U853a, the replacement of the 853a, seems to have better performance, hyper-cardiod attachment, but already more expensive.

I am not sure where you are looking at prices, but you can get a pair of AT-853 at soundprofessionals for $199 (search on CMC-4) and the AT-822 is $248.

From them you can get cardioid, omni, sub-card and hyper caps for the AT-853. 

The 9v battery pack is only needed for loud concerts, we would need more info on what you plan to record to know if you need that.

I find the AT-853 is very easy to use, small and portable when I put the R-09 in my pocket and clip the mics on my glasses.  Easy to forget that I am recording.  The quality is very good, heres some R-09 sample recordings you can check out.  I just put up on Archive.org 24 recordings I made of the 7-4-06 Rainbow Gathering in Colorado.  All acoustic recordings with the CMC-4(AT 853) worn on my glasses > R-09 (44.1 kHz, 16 bit) and no battery box, using mic in low setting.
 http://www.archive.org/details/2006_Rainbow_CO

If you only listen to a few, get the first 2 songs. On many of the songs there were about 15 musicians and the soundstage came out great, there was an upright bass, 3 guitars, mandolin, hand drum, violin, sax, lots of vocals, and you can hear the position of each.  I really liked how easy to run this was in very primitive conditions camping out for 5 days.
 

[jlmlord]

Greetings to all ..


2 - AT853a, which some of you recommend. A discontinued model, single channel, with a power pack, long wires, so not as portable.

Seems to me this would all fit just about in the palm of your hand, all very portable.  Cables can be shortened for use or wrapped in a neat coil secured with velcro, leaving just the needed length.  You said you have a limit of $1000 but would like to spend under.  Lots of options.  Mics require power, some 48v phantom power, others use and internal 9v or an external battery box (very small, size of a pack of cigs or smaller).  So I have to ask you, are you looking for a stereo mic, a stereo pair, mics running off of phantom power or are powered by internal battery? Mini mics ala AT 853, 943, dpa 406x, etc, pencil condesors which are full bodied but still very portable and small, a stereo mic with internal batts with fixed cap postition (at 822) or sp lsd2 which is a stereo mic well under a grand but with many patterns and cap options and is a stellar mic?  Your question could probablly be answered better if we had a more precise dollar amount and exactly what you are looking to use these for.  Then the options could be narrowed down for you.

Hello Stir. Thanks for the unimpeded flow ... Was off for the long week-end ...
I prefer either battery or plug-in power from my R-09 if the mike will accept it. Balanced operation would be nice for studio use, but not essential.
I would prefer a stereo mic for convenience but I am not convinced of its benefit vs using 2 small mics like the CMC-4s that Sunwizard is suggesting. However, portability - small-size - is important.  Flexibility of miking patterns is nice to have. To wear 2 attached lavs is attractive if the noise level is OK.

I would like to spend under 1 grand - 500$ would be good, but to get a better idea of what is out there, and what incremental value one can get for the extra money, I set  the bar at that height.
I want to use the mics for quick setup field recordings, ambient sound takes for concrete music composition, build instruments for samplers, etc ...
I am thinking about using hypercards to get a better control of the sound space and reduce ambient noise.

Does that give you a better picture ? 

Cheers,

[SonicSound]

Let me know if you need an NT4.  I have one and it's just collecting dust - good price possibly

[jlmlord]

Greetings to all ..
1 - AT822, a stereo mike, the lowest cost option
2 - AT853a, which some of you recommend. A discontinued model, single channel, with a power pack, long wires, so not as portable.
3 - AT U853a, the replacement of the 853a, seems to have better performance, hyper-cardiod attachment, but already more expensive.

I am not sure where you are looking at prices, but you can get a pair of AT-853 at soundprofessionals for $199 (search on CMC-4) and the AT-822 is $248.

From them you can get cardioid, omni, sub-card and hyper caps for the AT-853. 

The 9v battery pack is only needed for loud concerts, we would need more info on what you plan to record to know if you need that.

I find the AT-853 is very easy to use, small and portable when I put the R-09 in my pocket and clip the mics on my glasses.  Easy to forget that I am recording.  The quality is very good, heres some R-09 sample recordings you can check out.  I just put up on Archive.org 24 recordings I made of the 7-4-06 Rainbow Gathering in Colorado.  All acoustic recordings with the CMC-4(AT 853) worn on my glasses > R-09 (44.1 kHz, 16 bit) and no battery box, using mic in low setting.
 http://www.archive.org/details/2006_Rainbow_CO

If you only listen to a few, get the first 2 songs. On many of the songs there were about 15 musicians and the soundstage came out great, there was an upright bass, 3 guitars, mandolin, hand drum, violin, sax, lots of vocals, and you can hear the position of each.  I really liked how easy to run this was in very primitive conditions camping out for 5 days.
 

Hello Sunwizard.
Yes, thanks, I had found a lapel version, but was not sure how they compared to the 853a direct from AT. Very attractive price indeed.  

Very nice recordings as well. Much presence is captured ...

If you attach them on your clothing, you do not get any friction noise ? You are using them mainly attached to your glasses ... any troubles using them in different miking patterns? There is not a large selection of clips available that would allow different mike positioning but I imagine one could put together a few using available parts ...  
I am attracted to hypercards to get the maximum directivity and lowest ambient noise.
If I can power the mics with plug-in power from the R-09 and get enough SPL, this is ideal. Do you think the battery box is essential ?

What do you think of the CMC-8 ? They look smaller with somewhat worse SNR, but are made out of brass. One salesguy at Erikson Audio told me that the smaller the cross-section, the more linear the mic is ...

Thanks for the help.
Cheers,

[jlmlord]

Let me know if you need an NT4.  I have one and it's just collecting dust - good price possibly

Certainly something to consider ... how much would it take for you to depart of it ?

[SunWizard]

Hello Sunwizard.
Yes, thanks, I had found a lapel version, but was not sure how they compared to the 853a direct from AT. Very attractive price indeed.  

Very nice recordings as well. Much presence is captured ...

If you attach them on your clothing, you do not get any friction noise ? You are using them mainly attached to your glasses ... any troubles using them in different miking patterns? There is not a large selection of clips available that would allow different mike positioning but I imagine one could put together a few using available parts ...  
I am attracted to hypercards to get the maximum directivity and lowest ambient noise.
If I can power the mics with plug-in power from the R-09 and get enough SPL, this is ideal. Do you think the battery box is essential ?

What do you think of the CMC-8 ? They look smaller with somewhat worse SNR, but are made out of brass. One salesguy at Erikson Audio told me that the smaller the cross-section, the more linear the mic is ...

Thanks for the help.
Cheers,

I have not used them on my clothing so can't answer that one.  I only use the cardiod caps on them so far, and the directionality is very good when worn on my glasses since my head and hair blocks the noises behind.  The battery box is only essential at loud shows, so it sounds like for your uses it may not be needed.  I like the sound of the CMC-4 better than the CMC-8, and there seems to be many on here who feel that way when I searched posts before buying my CMC-4.  The best way to compare would be to listen to some more recordings with those mics.

[SonicSound]

PM sent

Let me know if you need an NT4.  I have one and it's just collecting dust - good price possibly

Certainly something to consider ... how much would it take for you to depart of it ?

[jlmlord]

Hello Sunwizard.
Yes, thanks, I had found a lapel version, but was not sure how they compared to the 853a direct from AT. Very attractive price indeed.  

Very nice recordings as well. Much presence is captured ...

If you attach them on your clothing, you do not get any friction noise ? You are using them mainly attached to your glasses ... any troubles using them in different miking patterns? There is not a large selection of clips available that would allow different mike positioning but I imagine one could put together a few using available parts ...  
I am attracted to hypercards to get the maximum directivity and lowest ambient noise.
If I can power the mics with plug-in power from the R-09 and get enough SPL, this is ideal. Do you think the battery box is essential ?

What do you think of the CMC-8 ? They look smaller with somewhat worse SNR, but are made out of brass. One salesguy at Erikson Audio told me that the smaller the cross-section, the more linear the mic is ...

Thanks for the help.
Cheers,

I have not used them on my clothing so can't answer that one.  I only use the cardiod caps on them so far, and the directionality is very good when worn on my glasses since my head and hair blocks the noises behind.  The battery box is only essential at loud shows, so it sounds like for your uses it may not be needed.  I like the sound of the CMC-4 better than the CMC-8, and there seems to be many on here who feel that way when I searched posts before buying my CMC-4.  The best way to compare would be to listen to some more recordings with those mics.

Thanks Sunwizard. I finally cracked for the CMC4. Should get them today !
Cheers !