Topic: Who runs MS and why ?

[Xpanding Man]

I'm told that running MS enables you to 'dial in' the pickup pattern of your choice, from a wide card to a super card type of pickup.  i'm told this can be done in cool edit pro after recording.

if one were so inclined,  couldn't one run this for every show, and then during the conversion just 'dial in' the optimal pattern until the soundstage is optimized?  am i being naive ?  i have TLs and could run card or hyper for the M component.

thanks,
john

[Craig T]

I like to use m/s, but sometimes don't want to bother with the m/s>stereo mixdown.  I've had good results using it on stage and from a distance.  from a distance you'll end up with the music coming from a very focused center image.

There are a few of my m/s recordings up on Archive.org from the ADK TL's.  Search ADK and you'll find them.  There should be a few Charlie Hunter, Will Bernard, and SKB.

[todd e]

now i am no expert in this field, but mid side configurations aren't just about being able to dial in the settings to suit the room.  it takes a figure eight microphone, in conjunction with a cardiod or a sub cardiod (etc...)  

the nice thing that the vms box does for schoeps is that is can do the mix-down 'real-time', as in before it goes to your A>D.  something i plan to try is both options at once.  both the I/II and the M/S settings, send signal simultaneously.  so that way we can walk away with a playable tape, allowing us to then mix-down at home for the BEST width setting.  

the schoeps folks definitely have proven themselves in the field (even FOB!!), so i'd suggest getting their catalog and start reading.  

i can send you some tapes, if you'd like to hear some.  

[Swanny]

I've only run it a couple of times. It is best in a good sounding situation. Outside you can get some wind phasing. I would like to try running an omni for the center channel sometime. But the main reason to run it is because it just looks cool...

[todd e]

i think the real reason, is that it so simple to setup.  the schoeps mount basically allows it to be point and shoot (plug and record, you know what i mean)

we typically run the (mk8 + mk4) > kcy (active cable) > vms02ib (width btwn 1-9) > ad1k (or mini-me)
nice small footprint.  

[Nick's Picks]

M-S does not allow you to choose polar pattern in post.
what it does do is give you the ability to adjust the amount of presence (vai gain) of the forward facing (mid) mic and the width (side) of the figure of 8.
The side info is more ambient info where as the mid is forward signal.

Kicks ass on stage!
It gained innital popularity as it is very easy to mix in post to a mono signal for broadcasting purposes.

When I run it, I tend to like a lot of side information.  If you are in a not so good local, like the TS in a large indoor arena, it can sound like ass.  if you give it too much mid (forward) gain, then you get an uninvolving mono sounding crap recording.
I've got examples of great and crappy M-S recordings if anyone wants one.


many preamps will do the M-S mixing internaly (if you want them to) and then it outputs an XY signal.  Personaly, I like doing it "on the fly" this way.  You just need Etymotic earphones so you can hear what you are doing, and then its a pice of cake.
the V2/3 does a great job at it.

[Xpanding Man]

thank you gentlemen....

so, no on arena shows, yes on FOB/stage tapes, especially outdoors.  Will try it out on 04/04/04 with Bela at pompano; have 8th row DFC.

Also, I had no idea that the V2 could do a MS....thought that was just on the V3.  Muchas Garcias

[Nick's Picks]

same jumpers in the V2 I believe.
have fun!

[sickrick43]

Look for me @ Bela in Pompano, TLM170's.  10th Row, Seats 15 & 16.  I want to try Blumlien, if I can get my mike-clamps-shit together by then.

Rick

[Kwonfidelity]

I've only run it a couple of times. It is best in a good sounding situation. Outside you can get some wind phasing. I would like to try running an omni for the center channel sometime. But the main reason to run it is because it just looks cool...

Whoa, hold up now.  M/S is a perfect set-up for windy situations b/c it defeats against phasing from wind since it is a single point configuration.  

M/S can also 'create' your own polar pattern in post because of the flexibility you have with the soundstage.  This is because of my next point.

The greatest advantage of M/S, alongside those aforementioned, is that it can yield three channels from one.  Actually, if done right, you can extract up to 5 usable channels from one fig-8 and another mic of choice.  Never use an omni in m/s unless the soundstage is surrounding you ie on-stage.  Subs, cards, and hypers all work very well with m/s  (Respectively in that order as you get farther away from the soundstage).

Agreed that m/s is better suited for post.  If you want to wing it and do it live, go ahead.  Sort of defeats the effectiveness and versatility of m/s, even with etymotics earwax plugs.

Not enough people do it, but as also mentioned, if you were to do this all the time and mix in post, you would be spending a whole lot of time in front of your desk/studio.

[Xpanding Man]

 thanks kwon; i'm a bit confused on how one can get 5 channels, but mine is a 'macro-acidomics' approach....

slick, are you recording with anyone from down here  ?  a friend of mine mentioned having tenth row center as well....also, i'm pretty sure that pompano  is about 24 seats wide at the 8th row, so at seats 11/12  should be DFC, and close enough to run MS....if you wanna clamp that should be cool, i'm pretty sure this will be a sitdown show until the inevitable 'hoedown' closer/encore...long XLRs might help.

[Kwonfidelity]

1. Mid
2. Side
3. M+S
4. M-S
5. M&S Panned Matrix (Phase inverted)

There's more to it than that, but you get the idea.
This is a surround matrix I am developing with Tonmeister, to make a single point, realistic soundstage, portable surround set-up.  The same concept can be applied to blumlein, with phase inversion - which is the trickiest part of it all.

[Swanny]

Sorry I was just going by what I've heard on tapes. You can get some phasing, but deffinitely not like you would with cards/hypers. I would like to try the omni center channel on stage. I'll have to see if I can figure out how to get those 5 channels in post sometime.

[Kwonfidelity]

Sorry I was just going by what I've heard on tapes. You can get some phasing, but deffinitely not like you would with cards/hypers. I would like to try the omni center channel on stage. I'll have to see if I can figure out how to get those 5 channels in post sometime.

Well that was my point about phasing.   You will get less phasing from the m/s than you would from cards/hypers etc where the caps are a coincident stereo and apart from each other.  If you get wind noise with m/s, the wind noise will be consistent on both channels.  Wind noise on a stereo configuration, not an intensity stereo config, will occur at different times for each mic therefore creating more of an effect.

The 5 channels is cool to experiment with.

Robert

[dmonterisi]

charles fox' panic redrox tapes from 03 are a good example of using m/s to reduce wind phasing issues.