Topic: DPA 4081

[aaronji]

I just discovered these things existed (although they have apparently been around since June).  I am curious if anyone has tried them out yet...I searched here and didn't see anything...

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=129&item=24376

[Gutbucket]

Interesting. I've been wondering about their miniature supercards.

No polar pattern or response graph posted yet.
The 4081 seems to use the same capsule as the 4099 instrument mic (which I see applied everywhere for acoustic instrument mic'ing these days), or a less sensitive version of the 4098H hanging choir mic, which is the one that interests me as its sensitivity matches the 4060.  I was wondering if all these were 4060/4061 based using the intereference tubes from the 5100 surround mic, yet the supercardioids are specified as pressure gradient mics.  "Pre-polarized condenser element with vertical diaphragm" seems to indicate a similar design at least, and I assume all incorporate the vertical diaphram design.

Here's the comparison specs from the DPA site:

4081 Miniature Supercardioid Microphone
Directional characteristics:  Supercardioid
Principle of operation:  Pressure gradient
Cartridge type:  Pre-polarized condenser element with vertical diaphragm
Frequency range:  20 Hz to 20 kHz
Frequency range, ± 2 dB, 20 cm (7.9 in) distance:  80 Hz to 15 kHz with 2 dB soft boost at 10 to 12 kHz
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB at 1 kHz:  6 mV/Pa; -44 dB re. 1 V/Pa
Equivalent noise level, A-weighted:  Typ. 23 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 26 dB(A))
S/N ratio (A-weighted), re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL):  71 dB
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD):  < 1 % up to 123 dB SPL peak, < 1 % up to 120 dB SPL RMS sine
Dynamic range:  100 dB
Max. SPL, peak before clipping:  142 dB


4099U Universal Clip Microphone
Directional characteristics:  Supercardioid
Principle of operation:  Pressure gradient
Cartridge type:  Pre-polarized condenser
Frequency range:  20 Hz to 20 kHz
Frequency range, ± 2 dB, 20 cm (7.9 in) distance:  80 Hz to 15 kHz with 2 dB soft boost at 10 to 12 kHz; second order low-cut filter at 80 Hz with DAD4099
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB at 1 kHz: 6 mV/Pa; -44.5 dB re. 1 V/Pa
Equivalent noise level, A-weighted:  Typ. 23 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 26 dB(A))
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL):  71 dB
Total harmonic distortion (THD):  <1 % up to 123 dB SPL peak; <1 % up to 120 dB SPL RMS sine
Dynamic range:  100 dB
Max. SPL, peak before clipping:  142 dB


4098H Hanging Supercardioid Microphone
Directional characteristics:  Supercardioid
Principle of operation:  Pressure gradient
Cartridge type:  Pre-polarized condenser
Frequency range:  20 Hz to 20 kHz
Frequency range, ± 2 dB, 20 cm (7.9 in) distance:  80 Hz to 15 kHz with 3 dB diffuse field boost at 8 to 15 kHz
Sensitivity, nominal ± 3 dB at 1 kHz:  20 mV/Pa; -34 dB re. 1 V/Pa
Equivalent noise level, A-weighted:  Typ. 23 dB(A) re. 20 μPa (max. 26 dB(A))
Equivalent noise level, ITU-R BS.468-4:  Typ. 35 dB (max. 38 dB)
S/N ratio (A-weighted), re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL):  71 dB(A)
Total harmonic distortion (THD):  <1 % up to 123 dB SPL peak; <1 % up to 120 dB SPL RMS sine
Dynamic range:  Typ. 100 dB
Max. SPL, peak before clipping:  134 dB


4060 Omnidirectional, Hi-Sens
Directional chacteristics:  Omnidirectional
Principle of operation:  Pressure
Cartridge type:  Pre-polarized condenser element with vertical diaphragm
Frequency range, ± 2 dB:  Soft boost grid: 20 Hz – 20 kHz, 3 dB soft boost at 8 – 20 kHz. High boost grid: 20 Hz – 20 kHz, 10 dB boost at 12 kHz.
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB at 1 kHz:  20 mV/Pa; -34 dB re. 1 V/Pa
Equivalent noise level A-weighted:  Typ. 23 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 26 dB(A))
Equiv. noise level ITU-R BS.468-4:  Typ. 35 dB (max. 38 dB)
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL):  71 dB(A)
Total harmonic distortion (THD):  < 1 % THD up to 123 dB SPL peak; < 1 % THD up to 120 dB SPL RMS sine
Dynamic range:  Typ. 100 dB
Max. SPL, peak before clipping:  134 dB


5100 Mobile Surround Microphone
Directional characteristics:  Directional
Principle of operation:  Pressure, with interference tube
Cartridge type:  Pre-polarized condenser element
Frequency range:  L, C, R, LS, RS: 20 Hz to 20 kHz; LFE: 20 Hz to 120 Hz
Frequency range, ± 3 dB:  L, C, R: 200 Hz to 16 kHz; LS, RS: 100 Hz to 12 kHz; LFE: 20 Hz to 120 Hz
Sensitivity, nominal ± 3 dB at 1 kHz:  L, C, R: 26 mV/Pa; LS, RS: 28 mV/Pa
Equivalent noise level, A-weighted:  L, C, R: Typ. 18 dB(A) (max. 21 dB(A)); LS, RS: Typ. 20 dB(A) (max. 23 dB(A))
Equivalent noise level, ITU-R BS.468-4:  L, C, R: Typ. 29 dB (max. 32 dB); LS, RS: Typ. 31 dB (max. 34 dB)
S/N ratio (A-weighted), re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL):  L, C, R: Typ. 76 dB(A); LS, RS: Typ. 74 dB(A)
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD):  <1% up to 123 dB
Dynamic range:  L, C, R, LS, RS: 103 dB; LFE: 100 dB
Max. SPL, peak before clipping:  132 dB

[datbrad]

These mics have taylored response curves, not flat, and I think that makes them useful for close placement for instruments, but not great for far-field recording like most members here are doing. If you look at the specs for the 4081, despite having a total stated frequency response of 20-20K, you will see this:

"80 Hz to 15 kHz with 2 dB soft boost at 10 to 12 kHz" within a ± 2 dB range.

This means that there is a roll off below 80Hz, and above 15kHz, with a 2 db boost between 10-12 kHz.

Someone could rent a pair and make a recording with them to decide for sure, but I imagine these specs limit this mic to very close placement. 

[Gutbucket]

These mics have taylored response curves, not flat, and I think that makes them useful for close placement for instruments, but not great for far-field recording like most members here are doing. If you look at the specs for the 4081, despite having a total stated frequency response of 20-20K, you will see this:

"80 Hz to 15 kHz with 2 dB soft boost at 10 to 12 kHz" within a ± 2 dB range."

You make a good point.  I feel there is no question a highly taylored response such as their 4080 cardioid would not be sutible for the type of recording we do. Yet the response for the supercards is somewhat more balanced and not dissimilar to many other supercardioids.

Those specifications are measured at the mics nominal mic'ing distance, which means at a distance, the low end of the mics designed for close instrument mic'ing will not be within -2dB at 80Hz but far lower.  I have heard some samples of these run HTRF style for classical/opera from the audience and they sounded great, with that trademark DPA clarity.  Some of those samples matrixed them with 4060s to reinforce the low end, but even without that they sounded nicely balanced if somewhat bass-light.  Granted the material I heard was not bass intensive to begin with.

I have no problem at all with the bit of top end boost which is welcome in a diffuse field mic.  Notice that the 4098, designed for mic'ing from a greater distance has a slightly larger 3dB boost. 

Agreeed though, I'd love to hear more from these.

[jefflester]

"The DPA 4081 Supercardioid Miniature Microphone is a high quality directional condenser microphone primarily intended to use for ultra-low profile, discreet recordings in the field ......"

Sound familiar? 

[acidjack]

I was just going to add that a lot of supercard/hypercard mics have a "tailored" response curve...  Look at the Neumann 150s... isn't their response curve even more rolled off/boosted than that?  That in and of itself wouldn't make these non-useful for what we do...

[WiFiJeff]

I am tempted to try these out.  I have been running the 4099s (cut out of their instrument mounts by DPA USA, powered by DPA6000 preamp, no DAD4099 bass-killer) for more than a year and a half, and I find that on their own they smoke any miniature cardioid I've tried (most of the ones familiar here, AT, Core Sound, MM etc.).  No graphs for 4099 bass roll-off at a distance, though, and I regularly run 4 track with each 4099 mixed with a low-passed signal from near-coincident (usually DPA 4063) omnis.  I hear a big improvement for this mix over omnis alone especially on piano and opera.  I didn't love the 4080s when they came out, but I know DPA was planning to augment the offerings, maybe this is the one I want.

Jeff

[Gutbucket]

I wonder if the only thing different between the 4099 and the 4081 is the mount, and that the 4081 is available in a stereo kit.  Your experience with the 4099s is what has me very interested, Jeff.

[WiFiJeff]

I just called Bruce Myers at DPA USA, and as you guessed the 4081 is basically the same mic as the 4099 with a different mount.  It is clearly the way I would go if I were buying today, eliminating the connector mine needs to join up to its cable (a very slight lump in a croakie). 

Jeff

[aaronji]

Jeff, out of curiousity, is the "basically" your word or Bruce Myers?  It implies some small differences so I was wondering what those might be (if any)...

Also, what is your impression of the low (< 80 Hz) and high (> 15 kHz) frequency roll-offs with your 4099s?  How would you characterize the way they affect your results?

 

[WiFiJeff]

I believe he  said it was the same mic with different mount.  Several years ago when they brought out the 4080, and then the 4099, the hope was that this series would eventually have a mic with less severe bass roll-off so as to be ideal for distance taping.  The impression I got was that the problems of getting a mic with the response of say a Schoeps MK4 into this form-factor was just too daunting for the limited market they see for such a mic. 
As I said, the 4099 by itself does pretty well, better than any micro cardioid I know for the classical music I record, so the frequency specs are not a drwback.  I do see stuff above 15kH (though I can't hear it) in iZotope.  The bass however is definitely improved with a low-passed track mix from a DPA tiny omni.

Jeff

[aaronji]

^^^ Thanks!  It's a shame that they are light in the low-end, but I would love to get a pair of small, high-quality cardioids.  Maybe I'll give these a shot...

[Gutbucket]

As I said, the 4099 by itself does pretty well, better than any micro cardioid I know for the classical music I record, so the frequency specs are not a drwback..
The bass however is definitely improved with a low-passed track mix from a DPA tiny omni.

What Jeff is doing is obviously more complicated than simply runing two mics as a stereo pair on the recording end.. and takes more work to mix the omni and supercardioid recorded channels afterwards, but technology marches on and complicated thing become easier.

Obviousy not alot of people are willing to accept those complications simply for the persuit of great sound, but the primary requriement is recording four syncronized channels (or possibly building a custom preamp/mixer that combines the omni & supercard pairs prior to recording, but though convenient, that seems even more complicated).  Four sync'ed channels has become much easier, or at least far less expensive, with the appearance of lower cost 4 channel recorders like the R-44 and the pocket sized Tascam DR2d.  It then only requires two preamps to power the four mics.. and the necessary computer work afterwards if the recording is worth it, of course the individual channel pairs can be used alone as well.

I've been recording 4 channels for a while with the slightly different goal of surround recording.  I previously ran four 4060s into two CA-UGLY preamps and two R-09s, sync'ing the files from the two recorders in the computer on the rare ocassion that I actually got around to doing the work, usually I'd just carefully play them back directly from the two recorders and get a very close approximate sync.  Fortunately the sync requirements for surround are slighly less critical than for mixing the two channels together like Jeff is doing.  All that became much easier when I started using the Dr2d in place of the two R-09s.  No more sync'ing/stretching required.

I haven't tried Jeff's technique myself yet as I'm not willing to give up the center and surround channels (the center mic somewhat improves the omni presence and 'reach' since it is baffled and semi-boundary mounted, and therefore sort of serves a similar purpose to adding the supercardioids for stereo).  But I would (and I'm already planning on it) when an affordable 6 or more channel pocketable recorder shows up.  Then I can also play around with interesting surround configurations like variations on OCT.

[fandelive]

Anyone tried those mics since then ?? Couldn't find any recording on LMA or Dime...