Topic: Advices needed for SP-CMC-4U "saturation" problem

[achtungpop]

Hello all !
First I have to tell english is not my language so I apologize for bad words sometimes, also it explains why it's hard for me to read all the pages here about this microphone finding easily answers to my questions .

Here's my equipment : SP-CMC-4U + battery box SP-SPSB-8 ( no roll-off ) > Tascam DR-2D (line in 95 dB) wave 48 Khz / 24 bit

I've a kind of saturation with this lineage, hard to explain with words so you can listen to this to understand my problem http://soundcloud.com/achtungpop/2012-10-22-muse-nantes-follow  (around 1min40sec)

Is it a problem of recorder level ? I've read almost everywhere that NO . It could be a problem of power , my bbox is 9V and some told me a  12V should solve the problem . But on other threads I've read that nothing else than a transistor 4,7K would solve the problem ... i've really not the money and the motivation to take this risk with brand new microphones !!  The drums sounds perfect to me, it's more a " bass" problemI guess . Should I use the roll off ? I'm afraid to have a worst sound without enough basses ....  I guess the real problem is the high SPL of the show ? it was very loud yes, but this also happend to me at a coldplay show in a stadium ....
So I'm wondering if some "manual" settings could help me to solve this : I mean for example to use the outdoor windscreen indoor to receive maybe " less" levels, or maybe adding several couchs of "stockings"  on the microphone to let it receive less volumes ! Please tell me what you think about this stupid solutions ?? .... I'm very sad that those"expansive " ( for me ) microphones have such a problem that could cost me even the same amount to solve it !! thanx in advance !!

[willndmb]

IMO that's a 4.7 fix but others will know better

[beatkilla]

You need the 4.7k....but you dont have to send the mics off you can have someone here make you a cable??i beleive.....Shouldnt be too much money.

[achtungpop]

could you explain this more clearly ? we can plug the microphone to something else with this 4.7k and the to the bbox to have the same effect ? it becomes very interesting ! one more plug so one more risk to have problems but it could be very interesting ! But who kind of guys builds this exactly ??

[LikeASong]

I've recorded that same song in my show (a few days before) and got the exact same problem. I think Chris Wostenholme's bass in that song likes to f**k up our recordings

Yours sounds significatly better than mine though (CAFS > Roland R-05 using plug in power - far from an optimal setup, I know), I was in a bad position due to having worked until 8PM and arriving only 30 minutes before Muse went on stage

http://www.goear.com/listen/0e6b5c5/follow-me-muse

[achtungpop]

hehe interesting to see that's it's more due to the show than the material, anyway even if this song is the worst of my recording, all the recording is touched by the problem , and also an other one with Coldplay which is a far less loud sound theorically .... !!!

[adrianf74]

I'll throw my $0.02 into the mix.  I had a similar issue happen to my Muse recording back in 2004 -- the bass distorted the AT-933 mics I was using (those mics were SP-CMC-8's without the 4.7k mod).   That said, I think the 4.7k mod _will more than likely_ fix your problem.

[fmaderjr]

I'm very sad that those"expansive " ( for me ) microphones have such a problem that could cost me even the same amount to solve it !! thanx in advance !!

You need the 4.7k....but you dont have to send the mics off you can have someone here make you a cable??i beleive.....Shouldnt be too much money.

Sound Pro's adapts the AT853 mics, which are designed to be run 3 wire (mini-xlr cables) so that they have a single stereo cable with a 1/8 mini-plug and can be run directly into a recorder's mic input or a battery box or preamp with a 1/8 jack. Unfortunately it was soon noticed that when run this way they will distort at a fairly loud show. Chris Church devised the 4.7 mod to remedy this issue (although it does reduce the mic sensitivity by around 10-12 dBs). Sound Pro's copied his mod and now offers it as a $45 option.

In my opinion they should make much more mention on their site of who should order their mics with the mod (basically anyone who sometimes records stuff louder than acoustic & nature recordings). Anyone who is not a regular taperssection member would have a hard time realizing they should get the mod from reading the sound Pro's options, which would confuse the hell out of me if I were a newbie.

[achtungpop]

Thanx for those explanations, of course I should have read all this forum before buying the microphone, at least to choose directly the good option on SP website because importing to Europe costs me a lot, and send back and received again would really be a lost of money :-S .....
Someone here  told that maybe a cable is possible to build, without having to send back my microphones, does someone know more about this please ? Is that what Chris Church builds or does he " only" fix the mics themselves ?? thanx in advance !!

[fmaderjr]

If it is possible to build such a cable, and I think it is, Darktrain
http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=17532
or Ted Gakidis  would be your best choice:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=19317

An advantage of having the mod on a cable is that you could use the mics without the mod (less gain necessary) when doing acoustic.

[darktrain]

The 4.7k mod isn't/can't be done in an extension, and Chris can correct me if I am wrong but it has to be done in the mini plug or each of the bodies of the mics, when i do it its in the plug end and involves 2 resistors, one for each channel and u cant do that through a extension, although u could get a attenuator cable for that or maudio makes a -10db pad. That being said, I can do the mod if you want to send em my way, and could have em back out next day after receiving them, shoot me a pm if u want to go that route.

[Javier Cinakowski]

A 4.7 adapter cable cannot be made for a 1/8" terminated mic set. The mod needs done before the wires become common in the 1/8" plug..

[darktrain]

A 4.7 adapter cable cannot be made for a 1/8" terminated mic set. The mod needs done before the wires become common in the 1/8" plug..

Thats what I was trying to say, just took me longer:)

[Ziggz]

How well does an attenuator cable perform vs. the mod?

[acidjack]

BTW, I sent a friendly email to Sound Pros about this and the many, many other threads that contain essentially the same thing. I was lucky that I asked a lot of questions and bought my 853 set with the low-sens mod, but they don't make it nearly clear enough that it's not really an "option" for recording loud music. 

[willndmb]

Attenuator cable won't work.

OP, if you can solder, restore the mics back to 3-pin mini-XLR.  Then you can order a cable from darktrain that will add the required resistors.  Otherwise, you need to send the mics to someone (no, not me) who will add the resistors inside the capsules or miniplug, whichever they prefer.

Maybe I have been lucky but I have not had any issues running into a tb via 1/8

[achtungpop]

thanks for clearing guys, Chris Church confirmed me by PM that it's not possible on a cable too . But if I could find to make this in Europe would be far easier and cheaper for me, I'm in France .... The amoint asked is really too much for me adding the send back and return it's even double !! .....
Is there somewhere available some schemes to see how to build this ? I'm afraid to try this myself for sure .... but who knows, if it's not very complicated !!

[darktrain]

Chris's diagram is in this thread, it will probably be easiest to do this in the plug but you will need a slightly larger plug than the neutrik/rean plugs that they usually come with, the switchcraft plugs are just a bit bigger and have just enough room to fit the resistors in there

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155550.msg1965996#msg1965996

[achtungpop]

Thanx, I think I'm not able to do this myself ...

So why to decrease the gain of recorder is not a solution ? this is not clear to me .

Is there no way to try to avoid this saturation "manually" like putting 10 windscreen ( schemeticly ... ) ones on the others ?? would it work even if giving a not so clear sound ?

[acidjack]

Thanx, I think I'm not able to do this myself ...

So why to decrease the gain of recorder is not a solution ? this is not clear to me .

Is there no way to try to avoid this saturation "manually" like putting 10 windscreen ( schemeticly ... ) ones on the others ?? would it work even if giving a not so clear sound ?

The answers to your questions are "no".  The issue is that the microphone itself is overloading because the power supplied to it by this miniplug setup is inadequate, and resultingly lowers the microphone's sound pressure level tolerance.   The only way to make the mic not distort is to not have as loud of a sound coming at it.  A windscreen won't do anything. 

Your choices are:
1. Fix the mic yourself
2. Find someone in Europe who can fix it (this should be doable).
3. Have Chris Church or Sound Professionals fix it by shipping it back to the USA
4. Sell the mics in Europe, use the funds to start over and buy a set with the mod
5. Chop the mics off the miniplug, re-install the proper three-wire mini-XLR connectors they were made for, and run them with a P48 preamp.  Then you don't need the mod.

I realize 5 is probably too complex, but it would work.  And it would result in you using the mics they way they were intended.

[Church-Audio]

Thanx, I think I'm not able to do this myself ...

So why to decrease the gain of recorder is not a solution ? this is not clear to me .

Is there no way to try to avoid this saturation "manually" like putting 10 windscreen ( schemeticly ... ) ones on the others ?? would it work even if giving a not so clear sound ?

The distortion is happening at the Mic capsule end. Nothing you do down stream will fix that. My mod is best performed by me not by my competition. Best bet is to send it to me not only do I do the mod correctly I also replace the thick cables with smaller ones and make the mic body smaller wile I am at it. I do the mod inside the capsule and its much more reliable. Then trying to cram resistors into a 3.5 mm stereo plug. This mod is a MUST for concert recording of loud sources, or you must run three wire power. I would also suggest a preamp if you are going to be recording quiet sources from time to time.

Chris Church

[bryonsos]

Chris's diagram is in this thread, it will probably be easiest to do this in the plug but you will need a slightly larger plug than the neutrik/rean plugs that they usually come with, the switchcraft plugs are just a bit bigger and have just enough room to fit the resistors in there

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155550.msg1965996#msg1965996

This is quite simple to do if you have decent soldering skills. I'm certain that a local electronics repair store would be able to do this for you for a few Euros if you give them the schematics.

[Church-Audio]

Chris's diagram is in this thread, it will probably be easiest to do this in the plug but you will need a slightly larger plug than the neutrik/rean plugs that they usually come with, the switchcraft plugs are just a bit bigger and have just enough room to fit the resistors in there

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155550.msg1965996#msg1965996

This is quite simple to do if you have decent soldering skills. I'm certain that a local electronics repair store would be able to do this for you for a few Euros if you give them the schematics.

Actually not that easy to do. I also adjust the values for the capsules And I test the mics for distortion before and after the mod and adjust values based on each capsule / and expected operating voltage to maximize output and minimize distortion.
And Even I cant get the mod to be reliable inside a 3.5 mm plug and I am the one that came up with it. Thats why I only do that mod to the capsule. Unless its a countryman mic where that is impossible.

[yousef]

I would say:

buy this:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157652.0

And get a local shop to re-terminate your mics to mini XLRs.

It might feel like a bit of a sting now (although $130 is more than reasonable for the 9100) but you may never have to buy another set of mics ever again: AT-853s properly powered and mounted take some beating...

[darktrain]

Thanx, I think I'm not able to do this myself ...

So why to decrease the gain of recorder is not a solution ? this is not clear to me .

Is there no way to try to avoid this saturation "manually" like putting 10 windscreen ( schemeticly ... ) ones on the others ?? would it work even if giving a not so clear sound ?

The distortion is happening at the Mic capsule end. Nothing you do down stream will fix that. My mod is best performed by me not by my competition. Best bet is to send it to me not only do I do the mod correctly I also replace the thick cables with smaller ones and make the mic body smaller wile I am at it. I do the mod inside the capsule and its much more reliable. Then trying to cram resistors into a 3.5 mm stereo plug. This mod is a MUST for concert recording of loud sources, or you must run three wire power. I would also suggest a preamp if you are going to be recording quiet sources from time to time.

Chris Church

I just want to add this, after some trial and error years ago , i came up with a way to put them in the plug that is reliable and i dont have to "cram" em in there and they are secure and have had no issues. For a long time people would ask me to do this and i declined until i was confident in its dependability.  Part of that is using a little bigger plug(switchcraft). I wouldn't do it if I thought it wasn't reliable and I stand behind all the sets I have modded if they ever do need a repair. I guess I am just saying there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[achtungpop]

I would say:

buy this:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157652.0

And get a local shop to re-terminate your mics to mini XLRs.

It might feel like a bit of a sting now (although $130 is more than reasonable for the 9100) but you may never have to buy another set of mics ever again: AT-853s properly powered and mounted take some beating...

well thanx, but the problem is I had a maximum budget to buy microphones, and the only thing i've been aware of was the quality of the recordings of other tapers, without reading all this stuff before . So I decided to buy the at853 putting all my possible money in it .... something like 250 euros here because import to europe is huge shipping cost, not only the travel but also taxes here to the postman ....  So the 2 solutions here are around 130 / 150 $ more and I really can't ... I'm already impressed by myself to have bought such expansive microphones, + the recorder .... !!  I'm angry against SP not to have warned me about this problem, even more if they can fix it themselves !! And do they fix this as properly as you guys seem to be able to do it ? I mean all the checkings etc ??

[acidjack]

I would say:

buy this:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157652.0

And get a local shop to re-terminate your mics to mini XLRs.

It might feel like a bit of a sting now (although $130 is more than reasonable for the 9100) but you may never have to buy another set of mics ever again: AT-853s properly powered and mounted take some beating...

well thanx, but the problem is I had a maximum budget to buy microphones, and the only thing i've been aware of was the quality of the recordings of other tapers, without reading all this stuff before . So I decided to buy the at853 putting all my possible money in it .... something like 250 euros here because import to europe is huge shipping cost, not only the travel but also taxes here to the postman ....  So the 2 solutions here are around 130 / 150 $ more and I really can't ... I'm already impressed by myself to have bought such expansive microphones, + the recorder .... !!  I'm angry against SP not to have warned me about this problem, even more if they can fix it themselves !! And do they fix this as properly as you guys seem to be able to do it ? I mean all the checkings etc ??

Yes, of course Sound Professionals can do the mod themselves.  It's listed as an option when you buy the microphones; they can easily do it after the fact. That just doesn't solve your problem of having to ship it back to them. If it's a warranty repair, it should not incur customs charges.  I happen to know this having just sent mics in the other direction for repair.

In fairness to them, it does say (at least now) right on the page for the mic "2-For strong sound levels, consistent with loud amplified concerts, you can add a battery module for increased high SPL performance and dynamic range. You can select the battery module shown above in the option box, or choose one of the many other types that are available on this page if you prefer. We also recommend that you add the "Low sensitivity" modification as an option (details on this option here)"

There is now an FAQ on "what to buy" as well: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category/microphone-selection-chart

[achtungpop]

Yes I've read this option now that I'm carefull of this ....

[yousef]

I'm in Europe too, so I can appreciate your pain re postage and taxes...

But I will say this: if this hobby is for you, one day soon you will look back in amazement that you ever worried about spending this sort of money - it will seem like small change 

And if you do feel otherwise, you'll be able to make back the vast majority of what you've spent by selling your gear on this site.

If you want to go the absolutely cheapest route, I'd imagine that someone local to you would be able to put together a 3-wire 9v battery supply for you (I think there is a schematic somewhere on here) and re-terminate your mics to mini XLRs. I'd still go for the Church 9100 on the Yard Sale though: works out about 100E plus postage and is probably too small to attract the attention of the import people...

[willndmb]

I would say:

buy this:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157652.0

And get a local shop to re-terminate your mics to mini XLRs.

It might feel like a bit of a sting now (although $130 is more than reasonable for the 9100) but you may never have to buy another set of mics ever again: AT-853s properly powered and mounted take some beating...

well thanx, but the problem is I had a maximum budget to buy microphones, and the only thing i've been aware of was the quality of the recordings of other tapers, without reading all this stuff before . So I decided to buy the at853 putting all my possible money in it .... something like 250 euros here because import to europe is huge shipping cost, not only the travel but also taxes here to the postman ....  So the 2 solutions here are around 130 / 150 $ more and I really can't ... I'm already impressed by myself to have bought such expansive microphones, + the recorder .... !!  I'm angry against SP not to have warned me about this problem, even more if they can fix it themselves !! And do they fix this as properly as you guys seem to be able to do it ? I mean all the checkings etc ??

Yes, of course Sound Professionals can do the mod themselves.  It's listed as an option when you buy the microphones; they can easily do it after the fact. That just doesn't solve your problem of having to ship it back to them. If it's a warranty repair, it should not incur customs charges.  I happen to know this having just sent mics in the other direction for repair.

In fairness to them, it does say (at least now) right on the page for the mic "2-For strong sound levels, consistent with loud amplified concerts, you can add a battery module for increased high SPL performance and dynamic range. You can select the battery module shown above in the option box, or choose one of the many other types that are available on this page if you prefer. We also recommend that you add the "Low sensitivity" modification as an option (details on this option here)"

There is now an FAQ on "what to buy" as well: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category/microphone-selection-chart

imo its not very clear or straight forward though

[F.O.Bean]

Yeah that's bullshit that's its not more apparent

[achtungpop]

But I will say this: if this hobby is for you, one day soon you will look back in amazement that you ever worried about spending this sort of money - it will seem like small change 

And if you do feel otherwise, you'll be able to make back the vast majority of what you've spent by selling your gear on this site.

I see what you mean, but I'm between both . I love to tape , and if possible to tape good, what I attend . But I " only" attend 6/8 shows per year so ....

[achtungpop]

Actually not that easy to do. I also adjust the values for the capsules And I test the mics for distortion before and after the mod and adjust values based on each capsule / and expected operating voltage to maximize output and minimize distortion.
And Even I cant get the mod to be reliable inside a 3.5 mm plug and I am the one that came up with it. Thats why I only do that mod to the capsule. Unless its a countryman mic where that is impossible.

There's an electronic shop not very far to me . But what should I ask them exactly ? I mean if they never made this I have to be very accurate in the description of what they have to make ! and except the diagram I have not lots of informations, how do you check all this values then ? when you tell you test the mics for distortion before and after , etc ... can they do that too ?

[bryonsos]

Actually not that easy to do. I also adjust the values for the capsules And I test the mics for distortion before and after the mod and adjust values based on each capsule / and expected operating voltage to maximize output and minimize distortion.
And Even I cant get the mod to be reliable inside a 3.5 mm plug and I am the one that came up with it. Thats why I only do that mod to the capsule. Unless its a countryman mic where that is impossible.

There's an electronic shop not very far to me . But what should I ask them exactly ? I mean if they never made this I have to be very accurate in the description of what they have to make ! and except the diagram I have not lots of informations, how do you check all this values then ? when you tell you test the mics for distortion before and after , etc ... can they do that too ?

I would go ahead and give them the schematics, ask them to do it, and then test the mics in a non-critical situation afterwards. Find a local band at a bar or club to tape, or just crank up your stereo and stick the mics right next to the speakers. If it sounds OK, then things should be fine. What Chris does is awesome, he goes the extra step to make sure the mics are balanced and performing well with extensive testing, but if the mod is done well by someone else, with the proper resistors, then that testing isn't needed. I had my B3s modded by someone without the testing equipment, and it worked out great. PM tgakidis or darktrain, ask them which connector and resistors they use, and have that information ready when you go to the shop. It's really not a huge deal and should only cost you 20-30 Euros or so.

[achtungpop]

I've read somewhere that my problem "could" be solved or at least be less important with a 12V bbox .
Ok my question will maybe seem stupid but ... what if I put the "plug in power" on  on my recorder, and the 9V bbox ... could it make an addition of both powers ? or would it destroy the mics ?? thanx

[acidjack]

I've read somewhere that my problem "could" be solved or at least be less important with a 12V bbox .
Ok my question will maybe seem stupid but ... what if I put the "plug in power" on  on my recorder, and the 9V bbox ... could it make an addition of both powers ? or would it destroy the mics ?? thanx

No, don't do that. 

[Church-Audio]

I've read somewhere that my problem "could" be solved or at least be less important with a 12V bbox .
Ok my question will maybe seem stupid but ... what if I put the "plug in power" on  on my recorder, and the 9V bbox ... could it make an addition of both powers ? or would it destroy the mics ?? thanx

Its not only voltage thats the problem.. Putting 12 volts on that mic is not going to reduce distortion very much when its wired 2 wire only my mod will help.

[achtungpop]

Actually I've taped the same band approximatly in the same conditions ( same position, but not the same venue so the sound was of course different ) and I've set up the bass roll off to the minimum of bass . And the miracle happened, I've not this saturation anymore . But of course I've a cruel lack of bass ! Anyway I guess I can set a few more bass but not the maximum . So no need to fix this anymore . YES !! lol

[fmaderjr]

I just want to add this, after some trial and error years ago , i came up with a way to put them in the plug that is reliable and i dont have to "cram" em in there and they are secure and have had no issues. For a long time people would ask me to do this and i declined until i was confident in its dependability.  Part of that is using a little bigger plug(switchcraft). I wouldn't do it if I thought it wasn't reliable and I stand behind all the sets I have modded if they ever do need a repair. I guess I am just saying there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I love Chris Church's products & innovations, but for people that want to have switchable caps for their 853's it seems far more economical and less hassle to have the mod in the plug. Then you don't need to mod each set of caps that you buy.

Perhaps when Chris said the mod is best done by him, he was really saying it should not be done by Sound Pro's and was not addressing the abilities of skilled cable makers on this board like darktrain.

[Church-Audio]

I just want to add this, after some trial and error years ago , i came up with a way to put them in the plug that is reliable and i dont have to "cram" em in there and they are secure and have had no issues. For a long time people would ask me to do this and i declined until i was confident in its dependability.  Part of that is using a little bigger plug(switchcraft). I wouldn't do it if I thought it wasn't reliable and I stand behind all the sets I have modded if they ever do need a repair. I guess I am just saying there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I love Chris Church's products & innovations, but for people that want to have switchable caps for their 853's it seems far more economical and less hassle to have the mod in the plug. Then you don't need to mod each set of caps that you buy.

Perhaps when Chris said the mod is best done by him, he was really saying it should not be done by Sound Pro's and was not addressing the abilities of skilled cable makers on this board like darktrain.

I am not going to go into details about what exactly I do with my mod, but I will tell you its much more than simply adding a resistor.

[beatkilla]

Out of curiosity of the 4.7k mod needing to be in the miniplug or capsule doesn't church build a preamp with a switch for 4.7 k how does that work and maybe thats an option for original poster.

[Church-Audio]

Out of curiosity of the 4.7k mod needing to be in the miniplug or capsule doesn't church build a preamp with a switch for 4.7 k how does that work and maybe thats an option for original poster.

i do and that requires 3 wire termination via 3 pin mini xlr

[achtungpop]

Hi

does anyone know how it's possible to unscrew the capsules in the sp-cmc-4u to access to the cables please ? thanx in advance ...

[Church-Audio]

These mics need to be wired three wire or be modified to handle high spl you can put 12 volts on these mics hell you can put a million volts on this mic it will not change the overload issue. I offer two solutions a mod * you send me your mics * $50 + Return shipping. I recable the mics and do a few other mods to this mic that I am not sharing publicly. Or you can buy my ca-9200 three wire preamp and have me reterminate your mics with mini xlr connectors. This is the more expensive option but the most flexible. I also offer a new 3 wire battery box option that allows you to turn the mod on and off and provides proper power. All options require you to send me your mics. NO adapter can be made to work with 3.5 mm that will reduce the distortion issues you are having.

[lukpac]

I love Chris Church's products & innovations, but for people that want to have switchable caps for their 853's it seems far more economical and less hassle to have the mod in the plug. Then you don't need to mod each set of caps that you buy.

Also, if you ever want to switch to using phantom adapters, the mod isn't necessary, so *not* doing it in the mic body seems to make more sense.

[mauxworld]

Has anyone ever disassembled the microphone capsule? you need to use a special screwdriver compass ?

http://imageshack.us/a/img821/5926/t23a.jpg[/img]]

[achtungpop]

These mics need to be wired three wire or be modified to handle high spl you can put 12 volts on these mics hell you can put a million volts on this mic it will not change the overload issue. I offer two solutions a mod * you send me your mics * $50 + Return shipping. I recable the mics and do a few other mods to this mic that I am not sharing publicly. Or you can buy my ca-9200 three wire preamp and have me reterminate your mics with mini xlr connectors. This is the more expensive option but the most flexible. I also offer a new 3 wire battery box option that allows you to turn the mod on and off and provides proper power. All options require you to send me your mics. NO adapter can be made to work with 3.5 mm that will reduce the distortion issues you are having.

thanx but you already told me that, that was not my last question lol

[red]

I recently attempted 3 stealth recordings with SP-CMC (4u's, and 8's) -- two w/ sp mics with the 4.7k mod (excellent results), one without (disaster lol, but the disaster could also have been a faulty battery box, I need to isolate the issue)...here is a description of my results:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=164258.0   ...

[Church-Audio]

These mics need to be wired three wire or be modified to handle high spl you can put 12 volts on these mics hell you can put a million volts on this mic it will not change the overload issue. I offer two solutions a mod * you send me your mics * $50 + Return shipping. I recable the mics and do a few other mods to this mic that I am not sharing publicly. Or you can buy my ca-9200 three wire preamp and have me reterminate your mics with mini xlr connectors. This is the more expensive option but the most flexible. I also offer a new 3 wire battery box option that allows you to turn the mod on and off and provides proper power. All options require you to send me your mics. NO adapter can be made to work with 3.5 mm that will reduce the distortion issues you are having.

thanx but you already told me that, that was not my last question lol

Adding the resistor to the fet housing is not a DYI project. It requires special abilities to solder fine things. And the knowledge and back up parts incase you screw something up. So yeah you can do it but its not advisable. If you want to do it your self just get a big switcraft 3.5mm plug and do the mod inside there.

[jbraveman]

I just got a pair of SP-CMC-4u with the card and omni caps and a 12v battery box.  I'm running it into a m10 through the microphone input with the plug in power off.  This was my first recording at an acoustic, but amplified show.  2 guitars and a stand-up bass. The SPL was not very high.  I ran the recording with conservative levels.  Mic sensitivity was set to low.  The limiter was off.  Recording levels were on manual. There was no clipping on the wav form.  The bass, unfortunately is distorted.  I've attached a sample.  I haven't done any editing with it.  My understanding of the mod was for high spl shows.  Recording level was set at "2" on the m10.

Am I doing something wrong or do the mics need the mod to sound good?

http://joshbraveman.subsonic.org/share/SaBsQ

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q19omey24vfyn45/AADmgNRlD51J6_chI4ym9NH1a?dl=0

[yousef]

I'm only listening through laptop speakers (with a toddler running around the room) so can't really hear the distortion. But:

I know the M10's mic input can take a fairly hot signal but that's the first thing I'd change - I always go line-in unless it's a desperately quiet show and I need some extra gain. Having said that, I'm not sure I've ever done that with the M10.

And is your battery box's battery fresh?

The fact that you had to set the M10's gain so low (I usually need go no lower than 5/6 - often higher) suggest to me that you were overloading either the mic input or the mics themselves. As per similar threads here and elsewhere, I suspect you may need to run modded mics or use a 3-wire box. I do the latter when using At853s and have never once had an issue even at very loud shows.

[Gene Poole]

I just got a pair of SP-CMC-4u with the card and omni caps and a 12v battery box.  I'm running it into a m10 through the microphone input with the plug in power off.  This was my first recording at an acoustic, but amplified show.  2 guitars and a stand-up bass. The SPL was not very high.  I ran the recording with conservative levels.  Mic sensitivity was set to low.  The limiter was off.  Recording levels were on manual. There was no clipping on the wav form.  The bass, unfortunately is distorted.  I've attached a sample.  I haven't done any editing with it.  My understanding of the mod was for high spl shows.  Recording level was set at "2" on the m10.

Am I doing something wrong or do the mics need the mod to sound good?

http://joshbraveman.subsonic.org/share/SaBsQ

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q19omey24vfyn45/AADmgNRlD51J6_chI4ym9NH1a?dl=0

It sounds like the vocals are what is distorting, or some harmonic of the vocals and the bass.  The bass notes when there are no vocals sound fine.  Maybe the PA (or whatever the vocals were running through) was overdriving it and had nothing to do with your mics.  The highest SPL seems to be the applause at the end and it doesn't distort at all.

[jbraveman]

It seems like I inadvertently ran down the battery in the batt box.  I left it plugged in to the mics before the show not knowing that this would drain the battery.  I am curious about the 3 wire mod.  Does it lower the sensitivity or just make the signal path more resistant to overloading?

[lukpac]

It seems like I inadvertently ran down the battery in the batt box.  I left it plugged in to the mics before the show not knowing that this would drain the battery.

The battery was actually drained? My recollection is that generally takes a long time. I believe I left some plugged in overnight once and the battery barely registered a change the next day.

I am curious about the 3 wire mod.

It's worth noting that the "mod" actually wires the mics how they were designed to be used in the first place. Running them via plug-in power is a bit of a kludge.

[jbraveman]

It seems like I inadvertently ran down the battery in the batt box.  I left it plugged in to the mics before the show not knowing that this would drain the battery.

The battery was actually drained? My recollection is that generally takes a long time. I believe I left some plugged in overnight once and the battery barely registered a change the next day.

I am curious about the 3 wire mod.

It's worth noting that the "mod" actually wires the mics how they were designed to be used in the first place. Running them via plug-in power is a bit of a kludge.

I left them plugged in overnight.  Likely many nights.  I was used to using a box with an on/off swtich.  My mistake.

What is the best option for a small form factor phantom power box?  Something in the size range of the m10?

[adrianf74]

It seems like I inadvertently ran down the battery in the batt box.  I left it plugged in to the mics before the show not knowing that this would drain the battery.

The battery was actually drained? My recollection is that generally takes a long time. I believe I left some plugged in overnight once and the battery barely registered a change the next day.

I am curious about the 3 wire mod.

It's worth noting that the "mod" actually wires the mics how they were designed to be used in the first place. Running them via plug-in power is a bit of a kludge.

I left them plugged in overnight.  Likely many nights.  I was used to using a box with an on/off swtich.  My mistake.

What is the best option for a small form factor phantom power box?  Something in the size range of the m10?

Seeing that Jon @ Naiant has left the game as far as preamps go, you're pretty much left with Church Audio.  A CA-9200 preamp is probably what you're looking for.  Chris has a 9200 option that's 3-wire if you need it (Mini XLR) or 1/8" if your mics are terminated that way.

-a