Topic: Advices needed for SP-CMC-4U "saturation" problem

[willndmb]

Attenuator cable won't work.

OP, if you can solder, restore the mics back to 3-pin mini-XLR.  Then you can order a cable from darktrain that will add the required resistors.  Otherwise, you need to send the mics to someone (no, not me) who will add the resistors inside the capsules or miniplug, whichever they prefer.

Maybe I have been lucky but I have not had any issues running into a tb via 1/8

[achtungpop]

thanks for clearing guys, Chris Church confirmed me by PM that it's not possible on a cable too . But if I could find to make this in Europe would be far easier and cheaper for me, I'm in France .... The amoint asked is really too much for me adding the send back and return it's even double !! .....
Is there somewhere available some schemes to see how to build this ? I'm afraid to try this myself for sure .... but who knows, if it's not very complicated !!

[darktrain]

Chris's diagram is in this thread, it will probably be easiest to do this in the plug but you will need a slightly larger plug than the neutrik/rean plugs that they usually come with, the switchcraft plugs are just a bit bigger and have just enough room to fit the resistors in there

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155550.msg1965996#msg1965996

[achtungpop]

Thanx, I think I'm not able to do this myself ...

So why to decrease the gain of recorder is not a solution ? this is not clear to me .

Is there no way to try to avoid this saturation "manually" like putting 10 windscreen ( schemeticly ... ) ones on the others ?? would it work even if giving a not so clear sound ?

[acidjack]

Thanx, I think I'm not able to do this myself ...

So why to decrease the gain of recorder is not a solution ? this is not clear to me .

Is there no way to try to avoid this saturation "manually" like putting 10 windscreen ( schemeticly ... ) ones on the others ?? would it work even if giving a not so clear sound ?

The answers to your questions are "no".  The issue is that the microphone itself is overloading because the power supplied to it by this miniplug setup is inadequate, and resultingly lowers the microphone's sound pressure level tolerance.   The only way to make the mic not distort is to not have as loud of a sound coming at it.  A windscreen won't do anything. 

Your choices are:
1. Fix the mic yourself
2. Find someone in Europe who can fix it (this should be doable).
3. Have Chris Church or Sound Professionals fix it by shipping it back to the USA
4. Sell the mics in Europe, use the funds to start over and buy a set with the mod
5. Chop the mics off the miniplug, re-install the proper three-wire mini-XLR connectors they were made for, and run them with a P48 preamp.  Then you don't need the mod.

I realize 5 is probably too complex, but it would work.  And it would result in you using the mics they way they were intended.

[Church-Audio]

Thanx, I think I'm not able to do this myself ...

So why to decrease the gain of recorder is not a solution ? this is not clear to me .

Is there no way to try to avoid this saturation "manually" like putting 10 windscreen ( schemeticly ... ) ones on the others ?? would it work even if giving a not so clear sound ?

The distortion is happening at the Mic capsule end. Nothing you do down stream will fix that. My mod is best performed by me not by my competition. Best bet is to send it to me not only do I do the mod correctly I also replace the thick cables with smaller ones and make the mic body smaller wile I am at it. I do the mod inside the capsule and its much more reliable. Then trying to cram resistors into a 3.5 mm stereo plug. This mod is a MUST for concert recording of loud sources, or you must run three wire power. I would also suggest a preamp if you are going to be recording quiet sources from time to time.

Chris Church

[bryonsos]

Chris's diagram is in this thread, it will probably be easiest to do this in the plug but you will need a slightly larger plug than the neutrik/rean plugs that they usually come with, the switchcraft plugs are just a bit bigger and have just enough room to fit the resistors in there

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155550.msg1965996#msg1965996

This is quite simple to do if you have decent soldering skills. I'm certain that a local electronics repair store would be able to do this for you for a few Euros if you give them the schematics.

[Church-Audio]

Chris's diagram is in this thread, it will probably be easiest to do this in the plug but you will need a slightly larger plug than the neutrik/rean plugs that they usually come with, the switchcraft plugs are just a bit bigger and have just enough room to fit the resistors in there

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155550.msg1965996#msg1965996

This is quite simple to do if you have decent soldering skills. I'm certain that a local electronics repair store would be able to do this for you for a few Euros if you give them the schematics.

Actually not that easy to do. I also adjust the values for the capsules And I test the mics for distortion before and after the mod and adjust values based on each capsule / and expected operating voltage to maximize output and minimize distortion.
And Even I cant get the mod to be reliable inside a 3.5 mm plug and I am the one that came up with it. Thats why I only do that mod to the capsule. Unless its a countryman mic where that is impossible.

[yousef]

I would say:

buy this:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157652.0

And get a local shop to re-terminate your mics to mini XLRs.

It might feel like a bit of a sting now (although $130 is more than reasonable for the 9100) but you may never have to buy another set of mics ever again: AT-853s properly powered and mounted take some beating...

[darktrain]

Thanx, I think I'm not able to do this myself ...

So why to decrease the gain of recorder is not a solution ? this is not clear to me .

Is there no way to try to avoid this saturation "manually" like putting 10 windscreen ( schemeticly ... ) ones on the others ?? would it work even if giving a not so clear sound ?

The distortion is happening at the Mic capsule end. Nothing you do down stream will fix that. My mod is best performed by me not by my competition. Best bet is to send it to me not only do I do the mod correctly I also replace the thick cables with smaller ones and make the mic body smaller wile I am at it. I do the mod inside the capsule and its much more reliable. Then trying to cram resistors into a 3.5 mm stereo plug. This mod is a MUST for concert recording of loud sources, or you must run three wire power. I would also suggest a preamp if you are going to be recording quiet sources from time to time.

Chris Church

I just want to add this, after some trial and error years ago , i came up with a way to put them in the plug that is reliable and i dont have to "cram" em in there and they are secure and have had no issues. For a long time people would ask me to do this and i declined until i was confident in its dependability.  Part of that is using a little bigger plug(switchcraft). I wouldn't do it if I thought it wasn't reliable and I stand behind all the sets I have modded if they ever do need a repair. I guess I am just saying there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[achtungpop]

I would say:

buy this:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157652.0

And get a local shop to re-terminate your mics to mini XLRs.

It might feel like a bit of a sting now (although $130 is more than reasonable for the 9100) but you may never have to buy another set of mics ever again: AT-853s properly powered and mounted take some beating...

well thanx, but the problem is I had a maximum budget to buy microphones, and the only thing i've been aware of was the quality of the recordings of other tapers, without reading all this stuff before . So I decided to buy the at853 putting all my possible money in it .... something like 250 euros here because import to europe is huge shipping cost, not only the travel but also taxes here to the postman ....  So the 2 solutions here are around 130 / 150 $ more and I really can't ... I'm already impressed by myself to have bought such expansive microphones, + the recorder .... !!  I'm angry against SP not to have warned me about this problem, even more if they can fix it themselves !! And do they fix this as properly as you guys seem to be able to do it ? I mean all the checkings etc ??

[acidjack]

I would say:

buy this:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157652.0

And get a local shop to re-terminate your mics to mini XLRs.

It might feel like a bit of a sting now (although $130 is more than reasonable for the 9100) but you may never have to buy another set of mics ever again: AT-853s properly powered and mounted take some beating...

well thanx, but the problem is I had a maximum budget to buy microphones, and the only thing i've been aware of was the quality of the recordings of other tapers, without reading all this stuff before . So I decided to buy the at853 putting all my possible money in it .... something like 250 euros here because import to europe is huge shipping cost, not only the travel but also taxes here to the postman ....  So the 2 solutions here are around 130 / 150 $ more and I really can't ... I'm already impressed by myself to have bought such expansive microphones, + the recorder .... !!  I'm angry against SP not to have warned me about this problem, even more if they can fix it themselves !! And do they fix this as properly as you guys seem to be able to do it ? I mean all the checkings etc ??

Yes, of course Sound Professionals can do the mod themselves.  It's listed as an option when you buy the microphones; they can easily do it after the fact. That just doesn't solve your problem of having to ship it back to them. If it's a warranty repair, it should not incur customs charges.  I happen to know this having just sent mics in the other direction for repair.

In fairness to them, it does say (at least now) right on the page for the mic "2-For strong sound levels, consistent with loud amplified concerts, you can add a battery module for increased high SPL performance and dynamic range. You can select the battery module shown above in the option box, or choose one of the many other types that are available on this page if you prefer. We also recommend that you add the "Low sensitivity" modification as an option (details on this option here)"

There is now an FAQ on "what to buy" as well: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category/microphone-selection-chart

[achtungpop]

Yes I've read this option now that I'm carefull of this ....

[yousef]

I'm in Europe too, so I can appreciate your pain re postage and taxes...

But I will say this: if this hobby is for you, one day soon you will look back in amazement that you ever worried about spending this sort of money - it will seem like small change 

And if you do feel otherwise, you'll be able to make back the vast majority of what you've spent by selling your gear on this site.

If you want to go the absolutely cheapest route, I'd imagine that someone local to you would be able to put together a 3-wire 9v battery supply for you (I think there is a schematic somewhere on here) and re-terminate your mics to mini XLRs. I'd still go for the Church 9100 on the Yard Sale though: works out about 100E plus postage and is probably too small to attract the attention of the import people...

[willndmb]

I would say:

buy this:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157652.0

And get a local shop to re-terminate your mics to mini XLRs.

It might feel like a bit of a sting now (although $130 is more than reasonable for the 9100) but you may never have to buy another set of mics ever again: AT-853s properly powered and mounted take some beating...

well thanx, but the problem is I had a maximum budget to buy microphones, and the only thing i've been aware of was the quality of the recordings of other tapers, without reading all this stuff before . So I decided to buy the at853 putting all my possible money in it .... something like 250 euros here because import to europe is huge shipping cost, not only the travel but also taxes here to the postman ....  So the 2 solutions here are around 130 / 150 $ more and I really can't ... I'm already impressed by myself to have bought such expansive microphones, + the recorder .... !!  I'm angry against SP not to have warned me about this problem, even more if they can fix it themselves !! And do they fix this as properly as you guys seem to be able to do it ? I mean all the checkings etc ??

Yes, of course Sound Professionals can do the mod themselves.  It's listed as an option when you buy the microphones; they can easily do it after the fact. That just doesn't solve your problem of having to ship it back to them. If it's a warranty repair, it should not incur customs charges.  I happen to know this having just sent mics in the other direction for repair.

In fairness to them, it does say (at least now) right on the page for the mic "2-For strong sound levels, consistent with loud amplified concerts, you can add a battery module for increased high SPL performance and dynamic range. You can select the battery module shown above in the option box, or choose one of the many other types that are available on this page if you prefer. We also recommend that you add the "Low sensitivity" modification as an option (details on this option here)"

There is now an FAQ on "what to buy" as well: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category/microphone-selection-chart

imo its not very clear or straight forward though