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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: TheJez on May 12, 2023, 02:43:54 AM
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Hi all,
I've been using my Edirol R09HR for stealth recording gigs since 2009. Not too many gigs, maybe a couple per year. Most of them are loud shows, but also some acoustic/quiet theatre shows) The results with my Core Sound cardioid mics have always been very nice imho (although the quiet shows come out a bit noisy due to the CS mics), so I couldn't be much happier with my R09HR.
However, over the years the display of the R09HR has started to fail. It is showing less and less lines. So far it's still usable but I don't know how long it will last.
So I'm thinking of replacing it with a new model. I've been doing some research (e.g. by reading the long threads on several recorders on taperssection), and my main contenders are the Roland R07 and the Sony PCM-A10. They seem quite similar on functions, quality and price.
I like the bluetooth monitoring & control option on both, which seems ideal for stealthing. (Although I don't want to rely 100% on this, e.g. for gigs where phones are not allowed...)
These are some pro's & con's and differences that pop up in my mind:
Roland R07:
- Bright red lights when recording which cannot be shut off through some maintenance menu. Not nice for stealthing. (My old Edirol R09HR is covered with tape on the top and the menu buttons to kill the recording lights. Could do that too with the new Roland, but it's not my preferred option)
- Bluetooth connection doesn't seem too reliable (maybe depending on type of phone??)
- Lesser battery life than the Sony, but not a real issue to me. I never needed more than 3.5h for main+support act, and it's easy to replace batteries e.g. on festivals.
Sony PCM-A10:
- As I keep reading, it is small.
- Bluetooth connection apparently more reliable than the Roland.
- Rechargeable battery built in. If battery brakes (which it will after X years of use), the device is dead. I much prefer the 'normal batteries' option of the Roland, even if it means less battery life 'on a single charge'
- I like the idea of recording on internal memory and handing over the sd card with some dummy wav files on it when caught :bigsmile:.
- Internal mics seem slightly better than the Roland's (??). (Good to know in cases of emergency when external mics are not possible for some reason.)
I just do stealt gig recording, no other use cases for me...
So my questions to you are these:
- What would you choose and why?
- Are there other differences between these two recorders that could be relevant for me?
- Are there other recorders out there that would be better for my use case (similar or better quality/features, similar price range)?
- I read here and there about 32bit recorders (e.g. with dual A/D conversion per channel). This seems a very nice feature. Is anyone aware if Sony and/or Roland is planning to release new devices in the foreseeable future that may have 32-bit support? (Or have these two companies completely given up on this market segment?)
Looking foward for your reactions, thanks a bunch!
TheJez
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Re Roland R07
Red light CAN be turned off with latest firmware (I did it based on a post in the R07 thread).
The bluetooth connection has been rock solid on my iPhone 5s, iPhone 8 and my current iPhone 14pro.
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I have both the A10 and the Zoom F3. I am only using Zoom now with the 32bit , it is just hit record, use tape on the hold button and you are good to go. I use a PFA from Naiant for the micromics (AT) to go from xlr > minijack, but soundprofessionals sells them too. No hassle with extra batteryboxes, wires, levelsetting etc. bit strange size, but once inside the venue, not trouble.
A10 is smaller and works nice with a phone. but it distracts a bit if you are unsure about the levelsettings. (keep checking)
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I'd look into the Zoom F3 - 32bit set it and forget it.
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Re Roland R07
Red light CAN be turned off with latest firmware (I did it based on a post in the R07 thread).
The bluetooth connection has been rock solid on my iPhone 5s, iPhone 8 and my current iPhone 14pro.
For my Samsung S10, one deck connects via Bluetooth every time, other one maybe 10%. Weird.
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Thanks all for your thoughts and experiences. The 32bit floating point/ multiDAC technology seems to be quite amazing and a big pro for the Zoom F3. No need for bluetooth to monitor and control levels with a device like that. But when initially going through the threads to get an idea of the currently available hardware, I must admit I skipped the Zoom F3 after seeing its form factor and size. It just seems so oddly shaped for stealth recording... Now if they would put the F3 hardware in an F2-ish shaped/sized device then there would be no doubt. I've been taping through mini-jack input for about 35 years, so I have no personal need to switch to XLR inputs now...
I guess the 32bit fp technology is something that won't go away and will show up in more and more devices. As my trusty ol' Edirol R09HR is still recording fine for the time being, I think I might stick with it till Zoom or another vendor will come with a stereo 32bit floating point device that has a more sensible shape...
(And if I can't resist any longer, it's good to know the F3 is there for me to get... :))
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Thanks all for your thoughts and experiences. The 32bit floating point/ multiDAC technology seems to be quite amazing and a big pro for the Zoom F3. No need for bluetooth to monitor and control levels with a device like that. But when initially going through the threads to get an idea of the currently available hardware, I must admit I skipped the Zoom F3 after seeing its form factor and size. It just seems so oddly shaped for stealth recording... Now if they would put the F3 hardware in an F2-ish shaped/sized device then there would be no doubt. I've been taping through mini-jack input for about 35 years, so I have no personal need to switch to XLR inputs now...
I guess the 32bit fp technology is something that won't go away and will show up in more and more devices. As my trusty ol' Edirol R09HR is still recording fine for the time being, I think I might stick with it till Zoom or another vendor will come with a stereo 32bit floating point device that has a more sensible shape...
(And if I can't resist any longer, it's good to know the F3 is there for me to get... :))
That's what I'm doing. I seriously considered getting an F3, and I actually like the form factor, but the XLR plugs extend the actual size of the device to a point it doesn't look so small, and I'd have to mess around with adaptors if I wanted to keep using my mini-jack mics (not a huge issue, but yet another possible point of failure, and it isn't that easy or cheap to find adaptors that convert phantom to 9V plug-in power).
I got myself an old Roland R-05 on Ebay to carry me through (£65, much cheaper than a Sony M-10 goes for, and similar quality) while I wait for a 32-bit float recorder that actually fits my requirements. This one might be a good candidate: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder (https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=202228.0).
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Good to hear I'm not alone in this :D. That Deity PR-2 comes indeed closer to what I'd be looking for in a 32bit fp device. Unfortunately there's no mention of multi-DAC on its website, so I hope they're not simply converting 24bit samples to the 32bit fp format... I am curious about when this thing will be on the marker, and at what price... Patience is a virtue...
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The Roland R07 might not be 32-bit but the fact that it can simultaneously record two different levels means that you can set and forget. My R07 is an early model and does have flaky bluetooth connection but I never use it, I just set the levels where I think they should be and then another ‘safety’ recording set at -12dB. I just press REC and forget.
The battery life might not be as good as on my M10, but perfectly adequate for the longest of shows. It’s now my preferred recorder for stealth recording, mainly down to the dual recording levels and size. I usually walk into venues just holding it in my hand, along with my phone.