Topic: Results of different setups

[blu666z]

I understand the way to setup mics in different configs.  The part I don't understand  is how different setups affect sound.  ie. why some setups can 'roll' bass where others with seem to intensify it.

[jpschust]

well you are changing the stereo image as one would call it, that gap in the center (depending how you change it) will change the sound.  Here is what i mean:

Turn on your stereo and set it to a middle to reasonably soft level.  ok sit right in the center of the two speakers (wherever your sweet spot is).  now put your hands behind your ears, kinda make your ears like spock ears.  Now play with how your hands are around your ears- cup them, curve them, etc.  You will notice the sound is changing.  now do one ear vs the other- imagine each ear is a mic.  should give you kind of an idea of whats going on.

Sorry, i know that was a bit convoluted, but basically as you change each individual component for spacing, you change what goes into it.

[Chanher]

Stereo-imaging is definitely one of the main reasons for different mic configurations, and that is why a majority tape using two mics as opposed to a single-point stereo mic.  If the board at a show is producing a stereo sound (different sounds coming out of different speakers, most commonly the left side seperated by the right side, I think) than you will assess your specific location and choose a mic config that works best.  The reason why you don't just randomly point the mics at each stack is that these pre-determined configurations (with very specific dimensions for setting up) have been tested to provide the most (according to opinion) "pleasant" images.  The image changes with each config. and my advice is that you not only listen to tapes with different configs but maybe set up your own little test site by setting up two speakers spaced apart and recording with the different setups.

I believe also that if a board is producing a mono feed you should still try and find the best set up because any imaging you'll produce sounds better than a straight mono.

ps, If incorrect anywhere here, please correct me.  thanks!

[plucks]

Yes, Chris made some fine points.
ORTF, DIN, AB, XY, etc, are all methods used in professional recording applications where the environment is controlled...we tapers try to extend this into a format that works in field envrionments as best as possible.  Some work better than others, and some people try to make their own by simple tweaks in what the "book" says.  
As for different bass intensities, generally, the farther spaced/angled the caps are from eachother, it will generally intensify the bass.  That is why XY produces a very specific bass intensity that is very direct and the rest of the low end is sort of rolled off.(if that's the way to describe it)  
However, the stereo imaging when the capsules are right next to eachother, unless used in very close proximity to the sound source, often produces a mono sounding recording.
Another reason for why the sound produced is different in each setup method is a type of cancellation in phasing and frequencies.  When sound arrives at different times in each capsule there is a slight difference to the human ear, even .02 milliseconds can be understood by the brain!  This is why recording stereo in a mono environment can be real neat since it reproduces what you can hear.  
Frequencies can also be cancelled out which may bring out certain low/mid/high ranges that might otherwise be covered up....or vissa-versa.

Hoped this helped out!  If i remember anything else, i will post it up.

Phil

[cpclark]

for the 12/20/03 global funk council show at the barrelhouse in cincinnati, i used DIN for the first set and ORTF for the second to kind of check out how the imaging was different, what a differnence ORTF made in the application being as close to the stage as i was.  The tightness of the instruments and clarity of the bass improved so much from set 1 to set 2, you can download it from archive.org/audio if you would like to check it out, it really does go to show that the right config can make or break the quality of the tape you amke

[nickgregory]

it depends alot on the mics as well.  I ran my bluelines exclusively DIN for the cards and XY/DIN for the hypers.  Quite honestly, none of the other configurations really matched what those configs provided.  

[dmonterisi]

by choosing different configurations, you are changing the amount of off-axis attenuation and, depending on your mics, coloration of the sound source.  for a first order cardioid, for example, sound is attenuated 3 db down at 55 degrees off axis (if i remember right).  so in ortf (which is 110 degrees), both caps are attenuating the souurce at 0 degrees by 3db.  and, different frequencies are attenuated slightly differently off-axis, depending on your mics.  some mics attenuate the frenquencies more or less uniformly off-axis, creating different coloration in what you hear.  a lot of mics would sound pretty similar if always run A-B because on-axis, they have a more similar frequency response.

[Kindguy]

Nice info......T+ to All

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I have a folder of samples and documentation I put together for someone who was interested in sound of different mic configs and locations.  If you want them and have someplace I can upload them via FTP, let me know before I delete them.  

[Chanher]

I'd love to see what you put together, I have high speed but no server, I have to use my dad's comp and he banned me from putting anything else on it.  can anyone host this?

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I screwed up.  They got deleted already.  I'll see if the guy who got them still has copies.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

OK, found them.  This is what I put together:

unless otherwise noted, samples recorded via coax SBM1 to D7 at 48k,
then transfered to CD using Tascam CDRW700 with resample to 44.1


Sample 1,2
   Frank Gregory 6-29-2002 - Chris Gregory Housewarming party
   KM184->V2->SBM1->DAT

   mics were clamped to Franks mic stand.  Lower mic was just
   above lap and directed at the guitar, upper mic was directed
   at the vocal mic capsule.

Sample 3,4
   Trey Anastasio Band 7-28-2001 - Merriweather Post Pavillion
   KM184->MV100->SBM1->DAT
   (XY85, behind soundboard, center section, row DD, seat 132)

Sample 5,6
   Widespread Panic 4-19-2002 - Walnut Creek Pavillion
   KM184->V2->SBM1->DAT
   (XY80, 15 seats right of center, row behind board)

Sample 7,8
   Widespread Panic 11-17-2001 - Idependence Arena
   KM184->MV100->SBM1->DAT
   (ORTF, DFC FOB 30ft from stage)

Sample 9, 10
   Govt Mule 5-9-2001 - 930 Club
   KM184->MV100->SMB1->DAT
   (XY - on axis to stacks but slightly wide, far right 1st row OTS)

Sample 11,12
   Phil & Friends 7-21-2002 - Merriweather Post Pavillion
   KM184->V2->SBM1->DAT
   (ORTF, FOB 10 ~7 seats right of DFC, ~6 rows ahead of sbd)

Sample 13,14
   KVHW 12-10-1999 - State Theater
   KM184->MV100->SBM1->DAT
   (XY90 was perfect on axis to stacks, DFC FOB)

Sample 15
   SKB 10-21-2001 - State Theater
   KM184->MV100->SBM1->DAT(44.1)
   (XY90, 1st row balcony DFC)

[Diggin]

hey, I have a webserver that they can be uploaded too
PM me for the info

[Diggin]

it is now on my server, you can access it a
http://www.the-remedy.org/tapers/km184samples/