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Author Topic: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!  (Read 10962 times)

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Offline morst

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Most backup strategies rely on three total instances of any file, such that when a drive fails, you don't have to run to your nearest outlet as soon as they open, to get a new empty drive, and immediately back up your remaining (fragile) version.

If you have a DVD or Blu-Ray data disc burned, or have saved the original SD card files intact, like some do, then that does count as three.
I hate to hear about folks losing precious files, and am overly cautious about risky scenarios.
If you share everything with others and could get it back if you needed it, I suppose that counts too.
Call me alarmist, but an oz of prevention ...
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Offline GLouie

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2023, 10:13:37 AM »
I tend to agree, and note that any media can fail or be lost at any time. For large amounts of data, hard drives are the only practical media for me, but people should realize they can fail at any time. In additional, I'm a believer in an off site copy as well; I keep a  large HDD copy of my home data at the office, and rotate the drive with one kept at home, along with the primary drives with my data. Cloud storage seems too expensive and slow for me, despite the cost of several large HDs. I dislike optical media now, nor leaving things on memory cards which seems inefficient to me, along with longevity questions.

Ask yourself at any time, what do I do if my primary computer died, the house burned down, a pipe bursts, etc. I was burglarized once, and they took my main computer at the time, a laptop. I had a clone of the drive at work, and was back in business a day later after merely buying a new computer, with only minimal loss of a few emails (POP) due to not cloning for a week. I have only had a few HDs fail, but it does happen. There are systems to automatically do backups, which could be great for most people.

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2023, 10:38:16 AM »
Also agreed — I keep one local backup via Time Machine, and one cloud backup via Backblaze. It's a small price to pay for peace of mind.

Offline voltronic

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2023, 12:16:35 PM »
I have long been a big fan of BD-R as part of a backup strategy. It is more long-term stable than HDD or other magnetic storage media as long as you use quality HTL media (not LTH) and store it carefully.

You can find a list of the different media types here:

https://blu-raydisc.info/licensee-list/discmanuid-licenseelist.php
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 05:21:32 AM by voltronic »
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2023, 03:50:23 PM »
I have my recordings on my internal hard drives, in RAID on my NAS server, and backed up in a cloud storage system (iDrive). Sometimes I will back things up to my workstation at the office, as well (please don't tell the boss). A little paranoid, perhaps, but experience is a harsh master: when my son was about 6 or 8 months old, our hard drive crashed with all of the baby photos (including sonograms). My wife was crushed. Luckily, I had a colleague who was a real computer guru and he helped me recover everything. Learned my lesson, though...

Offline voltronic

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2023, 05:49:04 PM »
I have my recordings on my internal hard drives, in RAID on my NAS server, and backed up in a cloud storage system (iDrive). Sometimes I will back things up to my workstation at the office, as well (please don't tell the boss). A little paranoid, perhaps, but experience is a harsh master: when my son was about 6 or 8 months old, our hard drive crashed with all of the baby photos (including sonograms). My wife was crushed. Luckily, I had a colleague who was a real computer guru and he helped me recover everything. Learned my lesson, though...

That's not paranoid at all. I always assume every hard drive will fail, it's just a matter of when. The people who have the best backup strategies tend to be those who have had unpleasant experiences like yours.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 05:20:54 AM by voltronic »
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Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2023, 10:13:09 PM »
That's not paranoid at all. I always assume every hard drive will fail, it's just a matter of when. The people who have the best backup strategies tend to be those who have had unpleasant experiences like yours.
To be glib, there are only two types of storage media; those that have already failed, and those that will do so in the future.


And thanks, Volt, for the reminder about BD-R media!!
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Offline moondust.and.solitude

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2023, 03:38:58 AM »
I have long been a big fan of BD-R as part of a backup strategy. It is more long-term stable than HDD or other magnetic storage media as long as you use quality HTL media (not LTH) sand store it carefully.

You can find a list of the different media types here:

https://blu-raydisc.info/licensee-list/discmanuid-licenseelist.php

+1

I'm a fan of BD-R backups as well. I have over 460 BD-R's (a little over 10TB of DATA) neatly tucked into a suitcase. Some of my BD-R's are creeping up on 18-20 years old and still read without hesitation.  I have the same files on HD and (some) on cloud services.
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Offline guitard

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2023, 10:17:52 AM »
I have long been a big fan of BD-R as part of a backup strategy.

I'm a fan of BD-R backups as well.

It didn't start out as part of a backup strategy, but I have been making blu-ray versions of all my shows for some years now.  Not for me; I don't even own a blu-ray disc player.  I do it for my brother; someone who doesn't have a single "techie" bone in him.  But he has a blu-ray player and knows how to use it.  So I have given him a blu-ray disc copy of each of my shows.  But as I said, I didn't start doing this as part of a backup strategy; it was because he goes to many of these shows with me, and that's the only way he can watch my videos.  He keeps them all neatly organized on a shelf.  I've come to realize that it's sort of a backup for me.  Not of my 4K video masters (I back those up with a NAS, additional HD, and Backblaze).  But it's an HD copy of my (4K) videos synced with 24bit audio I recorded.  With the 3x backup system I have in place, it's not likely that I'll run into problems.  But it's still nice knowing that if all else fails, there is still something out there.
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Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2023, 03:52:34 PM »
I have long been a big fan of BD-R as part of a backup strategy. It is more long-term stable than HDD or other magnetic storage media as long as you use quality HTL media (not LTH) and store it carefully.

You can find a list of the different media types here:

https://blu-raydisc.info/licensee-list/discmanuid-licenseelist.php
It appears that the manufacturers agreed that LTH discs must be labeled as such.
I have some old JVC discs that clearly say LTH on the packaging, and I have some Ritek discs which don't say that, and they mention that they use "inorganic" dyes, which is the HTL material.
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Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2023, 04:12:04 PM »
I definitely need to take a look at my backup setup and make some changes/updates

Offline aaronji

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2023, 04:19:49 PM »
I have my recordings on my internal hard drives, in RAID on my NAS server, and backed up in a cloud storage system (iDrive). Sometimes I will back things up to my workstation at the office, as well (please don't tell the boss). A little paranoid, perhaps, but experience is a harsh master: when my son was about 6 or 8 months old, our hard drive crashed with all of the baby photos (including sonograms). My wife was crushed. Luckily, I had a colleague who was a real computer guru and he helped me recover everything. Learned my lesson, though...

That's not paranoid at all. I always assume every hard drive will fail, it's just a matter of when. The people who have the best backup strategies tend to be those who have had unpleasant experiences like yours.

It's kind of funny: I had thought about some sort of backup solution for quite a long time. Seeing the devastated look on Mrs. aaronji's face when she thought all of the baby photos were gone was all it took to get me off my lazy butt. At this point, a decade plus later, I am so glad I finally did. There is just too much vital stuff that exists only in digital form. I would be willing to bet, though, that at least one of the people reading this post has to go through a similar trauma before they take action...

Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2023, 07:22:50 PM »
Wondering if Verbatim is worth close to a buck a disc when other brands are going for more like fifty cents each, and neither brand is directly listed on the handy reference page as being a registered manufacturer?! Thinking I'll take a chance with some PlexDisc from B&H or maybe even Clamazon...
Logo top is only 40 cents each plus tax at B&H
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1117556-REG/plexdisc_plex_633_814_25gb_bd_r_logo_top.html
*** Was thinking about starting a thread to discuss deals on blank BD-R media...*** edit: I have done so: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=201702.0


OMG those Ritek BR-3 plexdiscs are garbage to my Samsung external USB-2 samsung 6x.
One good burn, and the rest fail verify on at least one file each!!
The more costly verbatim CMC IMe discs are great. No errors so far.


got me thinking about how to make sure that the burns are verifiable. Need to include a tested checksum on every burn, for later comparison!




OOPS did not mean to edit this but here we are. d'oh.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 10:49:00 PM by morst »
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2023, 10:41:10 PM »
Take a look at the second column on the licensee page. Verbatim is all over the place, and their discs are made by CMC Magnetics or Mitsubishi Chemical.
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Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2023, 12:24:50 AM »
Take a look at the second column on the licensee page. Verbatim is all over the place, and their discs are made by CMC Magnetics or Mitsubishi Chemical.

I searched for Verbatim...
LOL at VERBAT
thanks
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Offline daze

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2023, 08:49:32 AM »
I have my files backed up in multiple places, but I've been meeting for quite a while to get a Blu-ray burner as an extra backup source. Does anyone have any recommendations for the best Blu-ray burner for this purpose?  Thanks

Offline detroit lightning

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2023, 10:26:37 AM »
I have my recordings on my internal hard drives, in RAID on my NAS server, and backed up in a cloud storage system (iDrive). Sometimes I will back things up to my workstation at the office, as well (please don't tell the boss). A little paranoid, perhaps, but experience is a harsh master: when my son was about 6 or 8 months old, our hard drive crashed with all of the baby photos (including sonograms). My wife was crushed. Luckily, I had a colleague who was a real computer guru and he helped me recover everything. Learned my lesson, though...

How do you like idrive? I've been using it for years...seems like it does what it's supposed to. However, finding files / searching, accessing files seems to be a real chore. Also wish it was easier to host/disseminate recordings - but I suppose that's not really what it's set up to do.

Offline guitard

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2023, 10:38:35 AM »
I have my recordings on my internal hard drives, in RAID on my NAS server, and backed up in a cloud storage system (iDrive). Sometimes I will back things up to my workstation at the office, as well (please don't tell the boss). A little paranoid, perhaps, but experience is a harsh master: when my son was about 6 or 8 months old, our hard drive crashed with all of the baby photos (including sonograms). My wife was crushed. Luckily, I had a colleague who was a real computer guru and he helped me recover everything. Learned my lesson, though...

How do you like idrive? I've been using it for years...seems like it does what it's supposed to. However, finding files / searching, accessing files seems to be a real chore. Also wish it was easier to host/disseminate recordings - but I suppose that's not really what it's set up to do.

It took me a while to figure it out, but I can (now) send download links to anything on my NAS and folks can download straight from there.  It all goes through my home internet, but I have good internet and I know people have downloaded 35GB files in a matter of a few hours.  So, it seems to be working well; at least when there are only one or two downloaders.
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2023, 11:36:12 AM »
How do you like idrive? I've been using it for years...seems like it does what it's supposed to. However, finding files / searching, accessing files seems to be a real chore. Also wish it was easier to host/disseminate recordings - but I suppose that's not really what it's set up to do.

I really like it. It's relatively cheap, encrypted, and the web interface allows you to access your files from anywhere. My subscription allows up to five devices, so I backup my desktop hard drive, parts of the NAS, my laptop and my wife's laptop. Easy to schedule backups (I do it every night). Indeed, not the best for hosting on a large scale, but it works pretty well for sharing with a few people. Also, I just got a new laptop and it was easy to transfer all of the files from my old one.

Offline voltronic

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2023, 09:02:07 PM »
I have my files backed up in multiple places, but I've been meeting for quite a while to get a Blu-ray burner as an extra backup source. Does anyone have any recommendations for the best Blu-ray burner for this purpose?  Thanks

Internal SATA or external USB?

I like LG and Pioneer drives. Get whatever latest 16x drive has the best reviews. Internal drives from either brand should be under $100.
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Offline guitard

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2023, 08:03:57 AM »
One other thing I'll mention about the blu-ray disc backups - blu-ray is pretty much a dying technology.  It'll still be a while before they're completely gone, but finding deals on media is getting harder and harder.  So, if you see a good deal on spindles of discs, buy a bunch of them.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2023, 10:29:57 AM »
One other thing I'll mention about the blu-ray disc backups - blu-ray is pretty much a dying technology.  It'll still be a while before they're completely gone, but finding deals on media is getting harder and harder.  So, if you see a good deal on spindles of discs, buy a bunch of them.

Prices are a little higher than they used to be, but what makes you say it's a "dying technology"? Maybe it will be superceded by a new optical disc format, but I don't think optical storage is going away anytime soon. The new drives will likely maintain compatibility with the older disc formats.
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Offline daze

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2023, 12:39:51 PM »
I have my files backed up in multiple places, but I've been meeting for quite a while to get a Blu-ray burner as an extra backup source. Does anyone have any recommendations for the best Blu-ray burner for this purpose?  Thanks

Internal SATA or external USB?

I like LG and Pioneer drives. Get whatever latest 16x drive has the best reviews. Internal drives from either brand should be under $100.

Thanks!  I was thinking of maybe an external because my desktop is getting pretty old. But I'll search around and see what's out there, at some point soon I'll probably need a new desktop and laptop anyways.

Offline moondust.and.solitude

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2023, 10:18:57 AM »
One other thing I'll mention about the blu-ray disc backups - blu-ray is pretty much a dying technology.  It'll still be a while before they're completely gone, but finding deals on media is getting harder and harder.  So, if you see a good deal on spindles of discs, buy a bunch of them.
Prices are a little higher than they used to be, but what makes you say it's a "dying technology"? Maybe it will be superceded by a new optical disc format, but I don't think optical storage is going away anytime soon. The new drives will likely maintain compatibility with the older disc formats.

Again, I agree completely with Voltronic. Optical storage isn't going to be dead anytime soon. The newest versions of BD-R is a 1TB optical media from Folio Photonics, and 200-250GB BD-R's as well. This medium is changing, but not going away.
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Offline guitard

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2023, 06:21:21 PM »
One other thing I'll mention about the blu-ray disc backups - blu-ray is pretty much a dying technology.  It'll still be a while before they're completely gone, but finding deals on media is getting harder and harder.  So, if you see a good deal on spindles of discs, buy a bunch of them.
Prices are a little higher than they used to be, but what makes you say it's a "dying technology"? Maybe it will be superceded by a new optical disc format, but I don't think optical storage is going away anytime soon. The new drives will likely maintain compatibility with the older disc formats.

Again, I agree completely with Voltronic. Optical storage isn't going to be dead anytime soon. The newest versions of BD-R is a 1TB optical media from Folio Photonics, and 200-250GB BD-R's as well. This medium is changing, but not going away.

I wasn't entirely clear in that post.

The portion of the post to which I replied was referring to single-layer (25GB) blu-ray discs:

I'm a fan of BD-R backups as well. I have over 460 BD-R's (a little over 10TB of DATA)

Those 25GB blu-ray discs are the dying part of blu-ray tech to which I was referring.  Quite a few companies have already stopped making them (Taiyo Yuden in 2015 and more recently Panasonic stopped this month).

edit: a word
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 09:08:16 AM by guitard »
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Offline Scooter123

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2023, 12:25:53 PM »
I still burn CDRs for friends.  I recently purchased two boxes of them.  2/3rds of them are bad disks. 
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Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2023, 04:26:15 PM »
I still burn CDRs for friends.  I recently purchased two boxes of them.  2/3rds of them are bad disks.
AWFUL!
Care to name and shame the brands, perhaps save some of the rest of us that hassle?

By the way I just received a shipment of blank BD-R from B&H photo. Happy to see they are all HTL discs.

The PlexDisc logo top resolve as
RITEK CORPORATION  RITEK  BR3  1-6X  HTL  25GB  (12cm)

and the Verbatim, for about twice the price per disc, show as
CMC Magnetics Corporation  VERBAT  IMe  1-6X  HTL  25GB (12cm)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 04:28:21 PM by morst »
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2023, 08:22:17 PM »
I know that some of the old reliable disc manufacturers, namely Taiyo Yuden, have moved their production facilities and their newer stuff is lower quality.
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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2023, 10:44:35 PM »
It is not getting any easier to deal with optical media as time goes on.
I also still have to do quite a bit of audio CD-R burning, both for long term university library archiving, plus the Luddites. This wouldn't bother me so much, as I have been doing this for a long time and have procedures in place, but now the media is a moving target as it seems to approach end of life.

After much testing decades ago, we settled on MAM gold for archival with very good error rates and Taiyo Yuden for absolute lowest error rate. We looked for a sweet spot of speed and low errors for each drive we used. We test every burned archival disc with Plextools (and a Clover before that) and reject any with C2 errors. We seldom had a bad disc of either, but the MAMs consistently had a slightly higher error rate than T-Y, which always had an amazingly low error rate.

Then in 2015, T-Y, which had previously been acquired by JVC, announced it was abandoning the market completely and CMC was buying their technology. Here's a press release:

Quote
CMC Magnetics purchases Taiyo Yuden Technology

We are happy to announce that late last summer CMC Magnetics purchased the technology and manufacturing license for Taiyo Yuden optical media products.

This past June, JVC/Taiyo Yuden made the announcement that it would be stopping production of all optical media products at the end of 2015 and making a complete withdrawal from the market. JVC/TY's withdrawal left a huge void in the professional media market and CMC quickly seized the opportunity to purchase the technology to meet that need. CMC has committed to produce all current JVC skus and maintain the unmatched quality and consistency the professional market demands. With the help of Taiyo Yuden engineers, CMC has built dedicated production lines using the exact same processes, raw materials and strict quality control measures to ensure the TY quality is maintained.

The CMC made products will be branded as "CMC Pro" and all cartons will be labeled "Powered by TY Technology". Part numbers for the CMC Pro products will be very similar to the existing JVC part numbers. All current JVC part numbers start with "J" and the new skus will be exactly the same except they will start with "T".

Example:
JVC Sku - JCDR-ZZ-SB
CMC Pro Sku - TCDR-ZZ-SB

We bought the CMC version when we reordered, and while they are pretty good, the errors were consistently higher. I will continue to use these until shown a better alternative. If they use the same T-Y formula, it should last well - I have a "That's" branded T-Y burned in 1993 IIRC, and Plextools shows it to still be good. All MAMs we've tested that are about 25 years old also test fine.

Now I've run out of MAM golds, and I discovered the entire production has been acquired by what appears to be a duplication firm in Chattanooga TN, WTSMedia.com. Their T-Y rep, Lora, emailed me:

Quote
CMC Magnetics purchased the Verbatim brand name in 2019, and they also purchased the rights to use the Taiyo Yuden disc technology in 2015.
MAM-A was formerly Mitsui Advanced Media America, when the 3 Japanese companies had direct ownership.  Verbatim was started by Mitsubishi. It's been an interesting industry.

I tried buying "gold" Verbatim archive CD-Rs from B&H, and found that the first couple of dozen all had C2 errors (some say these are still correctable, but others say still no good. I feel that we never used to have these, so why accept them now). And they are not cheap. These say Made in UAE, as I believe Falcon media is.

Gary Galo published some 2022 tests of CD-R and DVD-R media on ARSClist, and found that Falcon was pretty good. I'm not sure if it's cool to pass on his PDFs here.

Sorry for the length, maybe ripe for a new thread.

Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2023, 11:17:33 PM »
If we're gonna make a thread about BD-R, let's file it under Recording Media!
https://taperssection.com/index.php?board=59.0


> If they use the same T-Y formula, it should last well - I have a "That's" branded T-Y burned in 1993 IIRC, and Plextools shows it to still be good.
That disc probably cost $50 or more for the blank!
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Offline GLouie

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2023, 09:00:22 AM »
Yeah, my old That's CD-R was won at a studio demo raffle to demonstrate the then amazing ability to actually make your own CDs, on $50 blanks.

Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2023, 10:49:39 PM »

dang it, edited instead of new message, well here ya go.

Wondering if Verbatim is worth close to a buck a disc when other brands are going for more like fifty cents each, and neither brand is directly listed on the handy reference page as being a registered manufacturer?! Thinking I'll take a chance with some PlexDisc from B&H or maybe even Clamazon...
Logo top is only 40 cents each plus tax at B&H
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1117556-REG/plexdisc_plex_633_814_25gb_bd_r_logo_top.html
*** Was thinking about starting a thread to discuss deals on blank BD-R media...*** edit: I have done so: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=201702.0

OMG those Ritek BR-3 plexdiscs are garbage to my Samsung external USB-2 samsung 6x.
One good burn, and the rest fail verify on at least one file each!!
The more costly verbatim CMC IMe discs are great. No errors so far.


got me thinking about how to make sure that the burns are verifiable. Need to include a tested checksum on every burn, for later comparison!

OOPS did not mean to edit this but here we are. d'oh.

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Offline ijwthstd

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2023, 12:21:51 AM »
I came here to start a thread but

What's the deal with DVD burners only lasting like a few hundred burns give or take?

I like to back up all my masters / friends masters FLAC files on DVD's, 1 Verbatim and 1 Taiyo Yuden. I stared doing this before you could buy 1TB drives for $40.

Still like to do it.

So I have been pretty much burning gobs of stuff for one luddite friend (who doesn't even have a cell phone) but is a taper / filmer going back to the 1970's. And another friend who is semi-developmentally disabled (will never be computer literate) but likes to watch DVD's / listen to live shows by his favorite bands. 30 years ago I was making him cassettes. Friend A I told him no more CD-R's, if you can't handle digital files, not my problem. He is more of a "I need it all" hoarder but I guess he needs another source. But proud of my masters of which there were several I would still burn those for him. Friend B, at the risk of sounding like a shameless profiteer / bootlegger he brings me a burrito every times he comes over and will sometimes gimme a $20 or something especially since I tell him I gotta buy new burners like ALL THE TIME. So the cost is somewhat subsidized but still a total pain.

Local bands I record I give them CD-R's though some are down with FLAC files.

It started when my last new computer had the slimline burner in the case. Lasted a month or so. So now I am buying USB burners by various brands and burning them out. I can make them last a bit longer if I let them "rest" between burns but not by much. I have returned so many I am afraid Amazon is going to stop selling them to me.

Can't go by reviews because none of the reviewers are using them like I am.

Still a big music DVD burner, and never figured out playing from my computer to TV but I know I gotta.

Just opened a new burner today, ASUS ZenDrive which I have been kinda using the most recently and it has a USB-C hardwired plug I can't plug into my computer. Guess I should have read the fine print but didn't even know that was a thing.

Actually wasn't going to even make anything for my friends til I got caught up on data backups which I am like 20 discs behind on.

I even got a standard bigger burner and used the same conversion to USB kit I use for my old internal hard drives but even that didn't last very long.

Anyway, any ideas or do I just gotta tell my friends I can't help them out anymore and be a bit more diligent making sure my hard drives keep working?
"Never have I seen such a derisive comment by an uploader here about the music he is uploading." - TexasSkeptic

"is this a bad recording, or was that just a joke?" - monogwai

2012 Live Music Recap:

http://www.freewebs.com/ijwthstd/apps/blog/show/12314294-2012

Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2023, 06:12:30 AM »
Sounds like you either keep getting bunk drives, or maybe you have dirty power at your place, that's making the things crap out?
Are you running a UPS or power conditioner?
I've never really HAD TO do that but I've been paranoid about it!



Lately, I'm on a tear burning BD-R's on this nearly ten-year-old external Samsung drive in a USB-2 slim case. It loves Verbatim HTL and my OLD ritek spindle of HTLs, and these old JVC LTH, but the PlexDisc HTL's are crap to it. Got one good burn and then nothing else on those blanks!


(MediaTek MT1956 > TSSTcorp BDDVDW SE-506BB is how my drive identifies itself, the SE506BB is a samsung part number with two known firmware versions. I am still running the older one)
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Offline robeti

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2023, 06:49:35 PM »
checking in
mics schoeps mk22/mk4/mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/o) | ca-11 c/o | ca-14 c
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Offline Popmarter

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2023, 08:58:52 AM »
This can be very useful. Maybe a bit outdated, but you get the idea.

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/ca-academy/computer-audiophile-cd-ripping-strategy-and-methodology/

Recorders: Zoom F3; SD MixPre 3 II; Sony A10; Edirol R44; Sony M10; Sony WM-D6; iRiver IHP-120; Sharp MD-MT20; Sharp MD-MT190
Microphones: Schoeps MK41; Nevaton MC59/S (cards); Milab VM-44 Links (cards), AT853 7.4mod (cards); AT831 (cards); Nakamichi CM300 (all CP's); Soundman OKM II Rock Studios
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Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2023, 11:19:02 PM »
This can be very useful. Maybe a bit outdated, but you get the idea.

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/ca-academy/computer-audiophile-cd-ripping-strategy-and-methodology/
that's a cool perspective, thanks for the link!
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Offline robeti

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2023, 04:31:46 PM »
For the video tapers out there:
I was wondering how you archive your raw video masters.

Recently I purchased lifetime pCloud storage (10 TB) but that's about 100 shows in 4k quality.
I already have 350 shows or so that need archiving.

Right now I save them on 2 different external hard drives and M discs.

Any ideas?   
mics schoeps mk22/mk4/mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/o) | ca-11 c/o | ca-14 c
power ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox | schoeps cmbi (pair)
recorder roland r-05 
video panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v | samsung s23 ultra
playback fiio m17 > final d8000

Offline guitard

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2023, 09:24:36 AM »
For the video tapers out there:
I was wondering how you archive your raw video masters.

Recently I purchased lifetime pCloud storage (10 TB) but that's about 100 shows in 4k quality.
I already have 350 shows or so that need archiving.

Right now I save them on 2 different external hard drives and M discs.

Any ideas?

I bought a NAS (networked attached storage).  It has four 16TB drives in it, and can store up to 42GB, even if one of the drives craps out.  Currently, I've got 26.5GBs stored in the NAS; so it will probably start getting close to full in a few years.  Maybe not.  Just depends on how many shows I go to.  But it doesn't really matter, because I can pull one of the four drives out and replace it with a (much?) larger drive anytime I want.  So, increasing storage is a relatively easy process.  And what happens if the NAS box itself craps out?  Just buy another NAS box, swap the drives, and voila - you're up and running again.  Another really nice thing is that I can transfer large files back and forth between my video editing work station computer (in my downstairs man cave) and the NAS (upstairs) at super fast speeds.  It probably helps that they are both hardwired to the router.  But I'm talking about transferring 80GBs of video in 15 minutes - going both ways.  I hope to work out an arrangement with a good friend or two where we have our NASes backed up with with each of the other NASes in a group.  As storage costs go down - that becomes more and more feasible.

Last thing on the NAS -- Thanks to my youngest son, I am pretty good at video editing and a few other things on the computer.  But I am in my 60s and definitely NOT a computer geek; especially when it comes to hardware.  So, I approached the whole NAS thing with a bit of trepidation.  But setting it up was ridiculously easy.  I literally just plugged the four drives into the drive bays in the NAS box, connected the power cord, connected the NAS to my internet router (with an RJ45 cable), and turned it on.  I watched a 15 minute Youtube video on how to set it up, and since then (July 2022), it has run flawlessly in the background.  FYI - the NAS box was $370 and the four drives were $820, for a total setup cost of $1,190.

I also back most of my collection to Backblaze.  And I keep everything backed up on 4 or 5TB external drives.
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
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Offline fobstl

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2023, 11:58:02 AM »
For the video tapers out there:
I was wondering how you archive your raw video masters.

Recently I purchased lifetime pCloud storage (10 TB) but that's about 100 shows in 4k quality.
I already have 350 shows or so that need archiving.

Right now I save them on 2 different external hard drives and M discs.

Any ideas?

I bought a NAS (networked attached storage). 
guitard what are you using for the OS on your NAS? I'm looking at setting up a NAS with TrueNAS.

Offline guitard

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2023, 03:48:02 PM »
For the video tapers out there:
I was wondering how you archive your raw video masters.

Recently I purchased lifetime pCloud storage (10 TB) but that's about 100 shows in 4k quality.
I already have 350 shows or so that need archiving.

Right now I save them on 2 different external hard drives and M discs.

Any ideas?

I bought a NAS (networked attached storage). 
guitard what are you using for the OS on your NAS? I'm looking at setting up a NAS with TrueNAS.

I purchased a NAS made by Synology, and use the Synology software that came pre-installed; along with other "packages" I downloaded and installed while (watching that Youtube video and) setting it up.  I did some research and Synology seemed pretty reputable and easy to manage, so that's why I went that route.  Having said that, I have no experience whatsoever with any other NAS boxes.  So maybe I got lucky.  Or maybe there's something way better out there, but I just don't know it.
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
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Offline fobstl

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2023, 04:52:47 PM »
For the video tapers out there:
I was wondering how you archive your raw video masters.

Recently I purchased lifetime pCloud storage (10 TB) but that's about 100 shows in 4k quality.
I already have 350 shows or so that need archiving.

Right now I save them on 2 different external hard drives and M discs.

Any ideas?

I bought a NAS (networked attached storage). 
guitard what are you using for the OS on your NAS? I'm looking at setting up a NAS with TrueNAS.

I purchased a NAS made by Synology, and use the Synology software that came pre-installed; along with other "packages" I downloaded and installed while (watching that Youtube video and) setting it up.  I did some research and Synology seemed pretty reputable and easy to manage, so that's why I went that route.  Having said that, I have no experience whatsoever with any other NAS boxes.  So maybe I got lucky.  Or maybe there's something way better out there, but I just don't know it.
Right on Guitard, thanks for the info!

Offline Datfly

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2023, 10:34:34 AM »
For those that use external HD's Costco has Seagate 14TB HD's for 149.00 That's an amazing price!

Everything I have is on duplicate hard drives. I always buy two at a time & transfer masters to both before erasing cards.
I run 4K video on 5 to 6 cameras & blow through 2 8TB HD's every month & a half.

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Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2023, 12:10:22 AM »
For those that use external HD's Costco has Seagate 14TB HD's for 149.00 That's an amazing price!

Been a long time since I bought a seagate, but this EDIT: WAS an heck of a deal!
Last best deal I saw was 16 TB WD external for $200, which a major retailer with the initials BB sold out of really quickly. . .

"out of stock"
« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 12:19:57 AM by morst »
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Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2023, 12:28:31 AM »

I bought a NAS (networked attached storage). 
guitard what are you using for the OS on your NAS? I'm looking at setting up a NAS with TrueNAS.
Oddly enough, I'll chime in that this line of discussion is off topic here!


NAS is an availability solution, not exactly a backup method!!


Personally I don't keep all my data online 24/7/365, but maybe you have better solar than we do?
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Offline robeti

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2023, 04:46:21 AM »
Thanks. I agree.

Nas is nice, but no back-up.

I wonder how people that do video and therefor have large amounts of data to back-up, handle their back-ups.
mics schoeps mk22/mk4/mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/o) | ca-11 c/o | ca-14 c
power ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox | schoeps cmbi (pair)
recorder roland r-05 
video panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v | samsung s23 ultra
playback fiio m17 > final d8000

Offline guitard

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2023, 11:09:51 AM »
I bought a NAS (networked attached storage). 

NAS is an availability solution, not exactly a backup method!!

For the sake of discussion, can we agree that most practical methods for backing up several TBs of data involve SSDs and HDDs?  Either our own drives that we physically control, or drives located in an off-site cloud storage center?

Assuming that's true, how is connecting a (NAS) box with four 16TB drives to my computer - both of which are in my house ... how is that NOT considered a backup method?  Especially if one of those four drives fail, I still have all my 42TBs of files intact?  What about this setup doesn't scream BACKUP?

Availability is just that: availability.  Only because a NAS also can have great availability, doesn't mean it isn't a viable backup method.
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
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Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2023, 11:44:24 AM »
I bought a NAS (networked attached storage). 

NAS is an availability solution, not exactly a backup method!!

For the sake of discussion, can we agree that most practical methods for backing up several TBs of data involve SSDs and HDDs?  Either our own drives that we physically control, or drives located in an off-site cloud storage center?

Assuming that's true, how is connecting a (NAS) box with four 16TB drives to my computer - both of which are in my house ... how is that NOT considered a backup method?  Especially if one of those four drives fail, I still have all my 42TBs of files intact?  What about this setup doesn't scream BACKUP?

Availability is just that: availability.  Only because a NAS also can have great availability, doesn't mean it isn't a viable backup method.

(1) If your house burns down, your data are gone. A NAS is no *offsite* backup.
(2) If some of your files are corrupted and you've got the disks set up as a RAID, the corrupted files will be sync'ed to the other drive(s) in the RAID. Garbage in, garbage out.

You should have offline backups (either in the cloud or at a 2nd residence) and current and integrity-checked "snapshots" on disks, if you "love" your data.

Offline Datfly

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2023, 03:23:15 PM »
For those that use external HD's Costco has Seagate 14TB HD's for 149.00 That's an amazing price!

Been a long time since I bought a seagate, but this EDIT: WAS an heck of a deal!
Last best deal I saw was 16 TB WD external for $200, which a major retailer with the initials BB sold out of really quickly. . .

"out of stock"

For shipping...You have to go to the store...I forgot to add that!
Mics: Schoeps MK41's - Ass't Shure & Sennheiser for stage
Pre-Amps: Naiant Tinybox 2.2 o/t 
Cables: Nbob Actives V1
Recorders: Zoom F8nPro - F3 - H6 x 3 + Tascam DR-2d x 2
Panasonic ZS100 4K X 2
Sony NX80 4K | Sony AX700 4K  X 4 Camcorders
Canon 5D MK III
Canon 300 2.8 IS II | Canon 70-200 2.8 IS II | Canon 24-70 2.8 II | Canon 16-35 4.0

Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2023, 03:30:13 PM »
Availability is just that: availability.  Only because a NAS also can have great availability, doesn't mean it isn't a viable backup method.
I know that it's one method, but so is any old hard drive.
It does count towards three...


For shipping...You have to go to the store...I forgot to add that!


AHA!
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Offline guitard

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2023, 04:13:14 PM »
I bought a NAS (networked attached storage). 

NAS is an availability solution, not exactly a backup method!!

For the sake of discussion, can we agree that most practical methods for backing up several TBs of data involve SSDs and HDDs?  Either our own drives that we physically control, or drives located in an off-site cloud storage center?

Assuming that's true, how is connecting a (NAS) box with four 16TB drives to my computer - both of which are in my house ... how is that NOT considered a backup method?  Especially if one of those four drives fail, I still have all my 42TBs of files intact?  What about this setup doesn't scream BACKUP?

Availability is just that: availability.  Only because a NAS also can have great availability, doesn't mean it isn't a viable backup method.

(1) If your house burns down, your data are gone. A NAS is no *offsite* backup.
(2) If some of your files are corrupted and you've got the disks set up as a RAID, the corrupted files will be sync'ed to the other drive(s) in the RAID. Garbage in, garbage out.

You should have offline backups (either in the cloud or at a 2nd residence) and current and integrity-checked "snapshots" on disks, if you "love" your data.

Maybe you should read through the thread next time before making assumptions?  It's only four pages long (at this point).

my 4K video masters (I back those up with a NAS, additional HD, and Backblaze)

Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline rigpimp

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2023, 12:29:49 AM »
It doesn't take long to fill drives. The more free space you have the faster you'll move to fill it. 4k video is ruthless and has complete disregard for drive space.

I have a hand built 24-bay NAS that runs TrueNAS 13.0. The main vdev (array) is 8x14tb in ZFS2 which means I can drop two drives and it will recover data fine. My backup is 8x8tb in ZFS2 with single driver parity. I have a backup routine that logs into my Google workspace account, encrypts files, and does incremental uploads. There is my 3 instances.
Mics: Schoeps MK 5 MP, Schoeps MK 8 MP, Schoeps MK 41 MP, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Baby Nbox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6ii, Sony PCM-A10
Playback: Jolida 1501 Hybrid > McIntosh MX 130 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR, or Little Dot MK III > Sennheiser HD700
http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider
https://www.concertarchives.org/kskreider
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Offline rigpimp

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2024, 12:18:50 AM »
I just dropped two drives at the same time; a 14tb in my main array and a 8tb in a local backup. No data lost (ZFS2 arrays) both arrays are currently rebuilding
Mics: Schoeps MK 5 MP, Schoeps MK 8 MP, Schoeps MK 41 MP, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Baby Nbox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6ii, Sony PCM-A10
Playback: Jolida 1501 Hybrid > McIntosh MX 130 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR, or Little Dot MK III > Sennheiser HD700
http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider
https://www.concertarchives.org/kskreider
https://archive.org/details/thespps

Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2024, 12:29:34 AM »
I just dropped two drives at the same time; a 14tb in my main array and a 8tb in a local backup. No data lost (ZFS2 arrays) both arrays are currently rebuilding
physically dropped them, like from a desk to the floor?
#ItCanHappen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeVgcIFEh3I
(Yes - It Can Happen video, circa 1983)
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Offline rigpimp

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2024, 03:34:46 AM »
I just dropped two drives at the same time; a 14tb in my main array and a 8tb in a local backup. No data lost (ZFS2 arrays) both arrays are currently rebuilding
physically dropped them, like from a desk to the floor?
#ItCanHappen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeVgcIFEh3I
(Yes - It Can Happen video, circa 1983)

LOL, you were the second person to ask me that. No, when I say "drop" I mean that the drive dropped functionally out of the drive array.
Mics: Schoeps MK 5 MP, Schoeps MK 8 MP, Schoeps MK 41 MP, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Baby Nbox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6ii, Sony PCM-A10
Playback: Jolida 1501 Hybrid > McIntosh MX 130 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR, or Little Dot MK III > Sennheiser HD700
http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider
https://www.concertarchives.org/kskreider
https://archive.org/details/thespps

Offline morst

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2024, 03:08:35 PM »
LOL, you were the second person to ask me that. No, when I say "drop" I mean that the drive dropped functionally out of the drive array.
ah, the array dropped two drives, that makes sense, why would you be carrying two at once?
 :hmmm:
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Offline Chanher

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Re: Back Up Your Stuff! 3 instances of every file makes me sleep better!
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2024, 06:36:49 PM »
Used the recent cold weather to get caught up on backups. Over the years I've collected various hdd's out of different builds etc etc and I decided to wipe em all and fill em up with all my recordings. I made 3 separate copies across all the hdd's and I''m gonna take them to my parents cool dry basement. The secret is to not overthink it too much, just start copying everything and don't stop till it's done. Leave notes with the date, contents and a general explanation and be done with it.
Line Audio CM4 / AT853Rx (c,h,o) / Studio Projects C4 MKII (c,h,o)
Sound Devices MP-2 / bm2p+ Edirol UA-5
Zoom F3 / F6 / Marantz Oade Warm Mod PMD661 / Tascam DR-70D

 

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