Topic: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50 PT II

[flintstone]

The XLR-1 is a battery box, permitting you to use mics that need 48V phantom anad XLR connections.  It's an excellent, but very expensive, way to solve this problem.  It's definitely not a preamp, however. 

The internal pre of the D50 is very good, arguably better than any other pocket-size recorder.  If you plan to use an external preamp, and bypass the D50's preamp by recording line in, then you should consider purchasing a less expensive recorder like the Edirol R-09HR or Olympus LS-10 instead.

Preamp models I've used that would be a good match for a pocket-size recorder, both in performance and size, include the Sound Device MixPre, the previously mentioned Sound Devices MP-2 (now available only as used equipment), and the Aerco MP2.  These models provide excellent sound, phantom power, and up to 66 dB gain.

If you don't need that much gain, then look at the Sonic Studios PA-24NJ.  However, I'm not sure this model provides 48V phantom power.  Somebody help me here!

An intriguing possibility is the Core Sound Mic2496 version 2.  The Mic2496 has 60 dB of gain, and digital output. Among small recorders, the D50 has optical digital input (1/4-inch miniplug), and the M-Audio Microtrack II has an electrical digital input  (RCA plug). The Mic2496 V2 can provide full 48V phantom power, and you can attach mics with XLR connectors using a breakout cable that Core Sound sells.

A preamp a lot of us are interested in is the Five Fish Studios TS-2.  It will be available soon.  Read about it over on the Preamp section of this forum
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105112.0.html and
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,108569.0.html

Flintstone

[spcyrfc]

i know the xlr1 is not a pre, but permits the d50 to be run with xlr cables. are the pres on the d50 such that it would be unreasonable/unnecessary to use a mp2 or some other pre.  if so, then the xlr1 could be a nice (albeit overpriced) option.

i will probably wind up going with a external pre along with the d50 (which i plan to use as a point and shoot recorded in certain instances), but if anyone has any input on experience with the xlr-1 or pictures of the alleged streamlinedness, that would be great.

thanks again for the responses

[headroom]

Hi I just use the ART Phantom and an adapter XLR to Mini jack. With my AT Miks 3031/3032 ist pure joy...

[jlykos]

I just returned from overseas and finally got the chance to use my D50 last night for the first time.  After using it for a grand total of one time, I think that I can say that it is the best recorder that I have ever used.  I have used a D8, Microtrack, and PMD671 in the past as a way of comparison.  The single most significant thing that Sony did with this unit is place as many of the controls on the outside of the box so you aren't wading through an endless succession of menus like on the Microtrack or the PMD671.  While not as feature-rich as the PMD671, it has everything that I need.  A dual level control would be nice, but I can clean really bad levels up in the post anyway.  As many others have mentioned, the unit's construction is also outstanding.  It doesn't feel like a cheap piece of crap like a Microtrack that will explode in my hand at any second, nor does it have that unit's flaky interface.  It feels solid and well-built.

To anybody considering purchasing this unit, don't be put off by the fact that it is slightly more expensive than competing products.  The ease of use and construction are off the charts, and the D50 just feels like something that has been tested and tweaked to death and is a better product for it.  You get what you pay for, and in this case, it is worth every penny.

[Todd R]

Glad you're liking it -- and ditto, I agree completely.  I really like the D50, fantastic little recorder, well built, solid construction, good features, very good battery life, easily field-replaceable AAs, digital-in for use as a bit bucket, and to top it off, really good sound on line-in and mic-in.

I've owned and used probably 15 or 20 field recorders, and the D50 is definitely in the front of the pack.  I'd say the SD 7xx boxes are the top in their class of recorder, and likewise the D50 is the top in its class for the smaller hand-held recorders.  I'm always recommending it, esp since it doesn't seem to get nearly enough use in our application.  People seem to overlook it since it is a bit larger and a bit more expensive, which is too bad.

On a number of occasions, I've run: mics> Lunatec V3 (optimod)> D50 (digital in) and it is a great, relatively compact, high-end rig.  I've put together a new 2ch rig and will be running: Milab VM44-link> EAA PSP2> D50 (analog in).  First use will be tomorrow, and I've got no fear of using the D50 as my main recorder or as my A/D stage.  From my experience with the D50, this will be an excellent, uber-compact rig to run.

[stantheman1976]

The only thing I don't like is the D50 doesn't have a line level input that I know of.  So if I want to transfer a vinyl or cassette I have to use the gain knob and get the levels where I think they should be.  I would like to be able to transfer line level at 24/96.

[headroom]

The only thing I don't like is the D50 doesn't have a line level input that I know of.  So if I want to transfer a vinyl or cassette I have to use the gain knob and get the levels where I think they should be.  I would like to be able to transfer line level at 24/96.

NOPE, it does indeed have a Linelevel switch on the Outside

[tajAGplayer]

The only thing I don't like is the D50 doesn't have a line level input that I know of.

Maybe apples and oranges, but in case the same, I record off of my board to line in, and have meters. Line in/mic switch on the side in line in position?

tj

[stantheman1976]

That's for switching from internal mics to line in, but the gain knob still affects the sginal, right?

[headroom]

That's for switching from internal mics to line in, but the gain knob still affects the sginal, right?

YES SIR always with the Pot inthe signal way

[Todd R]

That's for switching from internal mics to line in, but the gain knob still affects the sginal, right?

YES SIR always with the Pot inthe signal way

Are you sure?  Do you know the circuit design of the D50?  Sorry, but such blanket statements are difficult to make with any certainty, IME.  It may well be that the audio signal goes thru the pot, which would then have some effect (probably very modest) on the signal.  Gain circuits can also be designed so that the audio signal is not routed through the pot, but rather the pot provides a gain-set resistance to gain circuit (eg., op amps).  In such a case, the fact that a pot is used for setting gain has no practical effect on the audio signal, since the audio signal itself isn't being attenuated with the pot.

Bottom line, without knowing enough about the circuit design used, we can't say anything for sure one way or the other.  People read these blanket statements and get all alarmed that somehow a particular piece of gear is ill-suited to an application.  Personally, I'd say don't worry about setting the gain using the gain knob.  And for that matter, I'd say if you are recording a "line" level signal (which can come in lots of different signal strengths, depending on the gear providing the "line" level output) using anything with an A/D section, you will have some way of setting the exact gain to set the recording level.  Meaning that whatever gear you choose, you will have this "problem", and without knowing alot about the particular design used for the particular gear in question, you won't know which gear option is better than the alternative.  0.02.

[headroom]

Its a bit different I have the copmlete service manual and all schematics

:-)

[Todd R]

Gotcha, good to know. Again, just trying to make sure accurate info gets passed along, and lots of time people make assumptions based on how other gear works, and its hard to know who really knows what.

I was just going to put together a bit more to follow up on my last post, though it seems you know the design of the D50.  To be more clear in what I was saying before for anyone interested in geekiness, in very general terms you could have a pot (potentiomenter, variable resistor) that works to provide a particular signal level using a few different designs:

1)  signal -> pot -> gain stage -> output

2) signal -> gain stage -> pot -> output

3) signal -> gain stage -> output
     pot to set gain -^

In the first two cases, the audio signal goes directly thru the pot, which can then have an effect on the signal itself.  In the third case, the pot provides a resistance that is used to set the gain of the circuit, but the audio signal does not pass through the pot itself, so the pot doesn't degrade the signal.  As an example, look at the application notes on page 4 of the THAT1510 mic preamp IC:  http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/1500data.pdf

[headroom]

Not 1 / 2 /3 its different!!!

[Todd R]

Cool, thanks for sharing!  Minus all the switching and stuff though, it looks like the line level goes thru something like option 1) though, doesn't it?  The switches route the line signal around, but then it goes thru the pot and then into the line-level gain stage.

Can you provide the full block diagram?  It's good to know what's happening inside the recorder.