Topic: Zoom H5studio: New 32bit float recorder with F series preamps announced.

[unidentified]

I would concur with the above. Whatever those knobs are for, it would be senseless for them to be there for somehow adjusting gain for 32-bit float recording. In my humble opinion.

[rastasean]

The handling noise on the outside video isn't good, but we don't know if he was holding it or had it mounted to something that was transferring the noise to the recording.
I guess Zoom doesn't include a windscreen with this recorder? Seems like it would make recording outdoors or possibly even in a room with a fan kind of difficult.

I had not realized the Tascam portacapture X6 is about $100 less than the H5Studio, making the former more appealing to me. Although a more fair comp would probably be to the X8, which is about the same price as the H5stduio.
If I were to have a recorder with large external mics, I would like them to be movable, like the X6.
I don't think the original H5 mics were movable either.

Just curious: is recording at a sample rate of 192kHz that common?

[Niels]

I don't think the original H5 mics were movable either.

They were removable, and they were interchangeable with the original H6 and H8 as well as F4 and maybe more recorders.

Just curious: is recording at a sample rate of 192kHz that common?

It is my impression that fieldrecording at 192kHz is becoming the standard when intended for sale in commercial sound libraries.
I don't think the 192kHz is often utilised, but gives the headroom to process and slow sounds down for effects, if required.

I don't think most amateurs like myself have much benefit from more than 48kHz unless you plan to record ultrasonic sounds, like bats.

[capnhook]

I don't think the original H5 mics were movable either.

They were removable, and they were interchangeable with the original H6 and H8 as well as F4 and maybe more recorders.

Just curious: is recording at a sample rate of 192kHz that common?

It is my impression that fieldrecording at 192kHz is becoming the standard when intended for sale in commercial sound libraries.
I don't think the 192kHz is often utilised, but gives the headroom to process and slow sounds down for effects, if required.

I don't think most amateurs like myself have much benefit from more than 48kHz unless you plan to record ultrasonic sounds, like bats.

 

 

[Nick's Picks]

nice looking deck.   looks pretty small too.

[morst]

It is my impression that fieldrecording at 192kHz is becoming the standard when intended for sale in commercial sound libraries.
I don't think the 192kHz is often utilised, but gives the headroom to process and slow sounds down for effects, if required.

I don't think most amateurs like myself have much benefit from more than 48kHz unless you plan to record ultrasonic sounds, like bats.

Not headroom precisely, but oversampling.
Each octave of pitch shift requires a halving or doubling of frequency.
With 192 kHz, one is able to play back at 1/4 speed, and still retain samples with listenable audio content up to 24kHz (equivalent to recording at 48Khz, but two octaves lower in pitch)

[Ozpeter]

nice looking deck.   looks pretty small too.

Oh.  I thought it looked huge in the reviewer's hand.  But I'm much more familiar with smaller form factor devices, rather than this class.

[Ozpeter]

I think the limiter(s) are disabled in 32-bit mode. They are only useful in 24-bit.

I don't know the answer to that short of going through the 180 page manual again, but I can imagine limiting being useful even at 32 bit float as an "effect" in essence, particularly on dialog - though personally I'd do that in post rather than at the source.

[Ozpeter]

I would concur with the above. Whatever those knobs are for, it would be senseless for them to be there for somehow adjusting gain for 32-bit float recording. In my humble opinion.

Adjusting gain post-DAC in 32 bit float can be useful when playing back lowish level recordings, which would usually have been recorded at higher levels than zero gain when using 24 bit.  But on the other hand, the device does have optional normalised playback which gets around that problem within the device itself.  Also, the recorder can capture a mix of the built in mics and the external mics (or four inputs if the alternative top module is attached) and the gain controls play a part in the balance of that mix, as I understand it.

[Ozpeter]

Comparisons with the Portacapture X6 are indeed interesting.  As you would expect from me, my first comment is that there is a curious lack of mention of Dual ADCs in respect of the X6.  Tascam's own page and the standard text on vendors' pages do not mention that.  But with the X8, dual ADCs are featured in such places.  Hmmm.  These days, as far as I am concerned, if the blurb doesn't say dual ADCs then I would assume single unless told otherwise.  The H5Studio claims dual ADCs on all 4 channels.

The Zoom device refers to F series preamps which are well respected.  But Avisoft state that the X6 has -127dB noise figure, same as Zoom claim for the H5Studio.

The mics on the X6 have the advantage of being rotatable whereas those on the H5Studio are not.  But the H5Studio mics are larger - which can be good, not always - and can be swapped with other top modules including the XLR module.  Thus it can support 4 phantom mics but the X6 only two (and the X6 connectors coming out of the side may or may not suit individual purchasers).  I have not seen any spec for the X6 max SPL but for the H5Studio it's 140dB which is about as loud as anyone would want to encounter.

Here in Australia a quick survey of pricing shows these two devices being sold at the same price.  But of course in coming months, heaven only knows where prices might end up...

[rastasean]

As a reminder, Tascam has a page listing which products have which preamps. The X6 and X8 have the same ones:
https://tascam.com/us/category/hdda
As far as I have seen, zoom doesn't have such a page so we're dependent on asking in video reviews or product review pages to get the info. It would be nice if Zoom had such a page, and it would be nice if both companies clearly spelled out which recorders have dual ADC vs single. However, at least in this case, they are claiming to have the same pre-amps as the F series, so we're not as dependent on it.

Regarding the h5studio, it might be worth investigating how many tracks can be recorded in 32 bit. Apparently the X6 can only record two channels in 32 bit.

The video you linked to in this post is no longer available: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=206984.msg2425722#msg2425722
hmmm...

[Ozpeter]

In the specs published by Zoom they say the device is capable of recording 6 simultaneous tracks (the mic or whatever at the top, the inputs at the bottom, and a stereo mix of those sources).  Checking the full manual, they state that recording the mix file when the inputs are set to 192kHz is not possible, but I'm not seeing anything about not being able to record 32 bit float from only one pair of inputs.  And if the Zoom H2e can do that, well, I'd expect the H5Studio to do it!

As for the X6 only recording two channels in 32 bit float, looking rather quickly through the manual I can't see any reference to that limitation - the nearest thing is that 32 bit float is not available at all in 'podcast mode'.  I have to say that I'm glad I haven't got an X6 as it seems very confusing to use, though perhaps that's my antiquity speaking...

Interesting that they took down that video.  The video they should have taken down was the one for the humble H2e, where they show a group of musicians being recorded with the H2e placed in the centre of the group.  And it's mono audio, which kind of completely undermines the point of the video.  A couple of comments suggested they should take it down but it's still there.  Anyway, back to the H5Studio...

[rastasean]

Curtis will be doing a live zoom h5 studio first impressions stream today in a couple hours:
https://youtu.be/zBlsbkOWEVI

I won't be able to join live but will watch on the playback. Hopefully he'll have a separate video about the recorder on his other channel in the next few days.

[Ozpeter]

Thanks for the heads-up.  I watched the show after it was finished and then posted the following comment.  As usual from me, it's not short...

"One very important factor you didn't mention is that the gain controls are digital, not analog.  Have a look at the full manual and check out the circuit diagram right at the end.  The first thing after the input sockets / mics are the A/D converters. 

Now this affects the whole way you might regard this device.  It offers 24 bit and 16 bit as well as 32 bit float, but that choice is only of any importance if you want to hand over to someone else a 24 or 16 bit recording - or if you can't handle 32 bit float when you edit.  The usual thing about setting gain in 24 or 16 bit manually really becomes close to pointless.  Anything you could do with the gain controls on the device, you could do when editing later.  Digitally raise the gain in-device, or in editing, same thing. 

The risk when recording other than in 32 bit float on this device is that you could turn the digital gain controls up to the point where the 24 bit file can't handle the level, and you'd get digital clipping.  So they advise aiming for -12dB on the meters (which by the way can be presented in three different display styles, worth exploring).   On the other hand, max digital gain applied when recording in 32 bit float won't matter because you'd never hit the +1500dB limit (or whatever it is).  I know you tend to prefer setting gain manually for 24 bit recordings, fair enough, but with this device it's hard to come up with a reason to do that (other than the scenarios I mentioned before).  If you do really, really need 24 or 16 bits, then the gain controls would mean that the output could be made to look at a healthy level when handing it to someone else, and/or they would instantly replay at a clear level, but  I'm not sure there is much point in the rapidly standardising 32 bit float world we seem to be marching into.

I think this is a great device which I would buy in a heartbeat if I was actually doing any recording these days, sigh, but it is not a device suitable for anyone who wants a traditional approach to 24 or 16 bit recording, where you set the gain to get the best from the preamp.  On this device, the preamp levels are fixed."

I suspect Mr Judd may be surprised to read that.  Let's see.