Topic: DPA 4061 with Tinybox

[taper666]

Can the DPA4061 handle 16 V power with the tinybox? I know lots of people use this combination but I'm not sure if at 9V configuration or at 16V? Found contradictory specs about power options...

[Todd R]

Can the DPA4061 handle 16 V power with the tinybox? I know lots of people use this combination but I'm not sure if at 9V configuration or at 16V? Found contradictory specs about power options...

I don't think the 4061's should have a voltage as high as 16v applied. No need to though -- the tinybox can be configured to supply 8v of plug-in power to the 4061s (the 16v is for phantom powering of mics, not plug in power). Just talk to Jon at Naiant, he can get you set up.

And it probably isn't contradictory specs, it is just that the tinybox is highly configurable, so more likely you're just hearing about different configurations that were put together for different users.

[taper666]

The tinybox is highly configurable if you want to buy a new box or at least if you're not living on the other side of the world. Anyway I don't want to buy a new tinybox with an 8V configuration (that would be simple - though they do not ship to Germany) - I want to run an existing 16V tinybox without doing any modification. And yes, there are different specs in the web, not about the tinybox but about the power options of the DPA mics! The DPA website says:

For wireless systems: Min. 5 V – max. 50 V through DPA adapter. With DAD6001-BC/DAD6024/DAD4099: 48 V phantom power ±4 V for full performance.

My question is: does this mean that the mic elemtents can handle up to 50V (or 48V plug in power) or does the adapter ("through DPA adapter") reduce phantom power? Anybody who's really familiar with these mics?

[aaronji]

I don't know the maximum voltage the mics can handle, but I do know that the DPA power supplies (MPS60x0) and pre (MMA6000) supply about 9V and that the phantom power adapters (DAD6001) step the voltage down to that level as well.  I seem to recall reading that the mics are designed for 8.2V, but I can't recall where I read that.

Personally, I would be a bit reluctant to try 16V without the DAD6001s (or maybe PFAs).  Maybe ask Jon at Naiant what he thinks.  Or Chris Church.

Also, I may be mistaken, but I believe that Naiant is shipping internationally again...

[Todd R]

The tinybox is highly configurable if you want to buy a new box or at least if you're not living on the other side of the world. Anyway I don't want to buy a new tinybox with an 8V configuration (that would be simple - though they do not ship to Germany) - I want to run an existing 16V tinybox without doing any modification. And yes, there are different specs in the web, not about the tinybox but about the power options of the DPA mics! The DPA website says:

For wireless systems: Min. 5 V – max. 50 V through DPA adapter. With DAD6001-BC/DAD6024/DAD4099: 48 V phantom power ±4 V for full performance.

My question is: does this mean that the mic elemtents can handle up to 50V (or 48V plug in power) or does the adapter ("through DPA adapter") reduce phantom power? Anybody who's really familiar with these mics?

Didn't know you were in Germany, and I didn't expect you'd buy a new tinybox.  But I've found Jon to be very willing to change the configuration of my littlebox and his prices for modifying the preamps he's made is very reasonable.  International shipping and potential customs aside, I don't think the cost to provide a 8v PIP output on your tinybox would be very much, but you'd need to ask Jon.

To your issue:  I'm almost positive I've read that the 4061 capsule itself cannot take high voltages.  I would doubt very highly the capsule itself can take 48v or 50v, and I personally wouldn't send it 16v without checking with DPA directly about it.  As Aaronji notes, the DPA adapter is sending 8-9v to the capsule.  I wouldn't try sending 16v directly to the 4061 capsules without checking directly with DPA, regardless of what you might find on the internet (too much potential for mis-information).

I still think an email to Jon would be helpful.  He can discuss the options for altering your tinybox and international shipping, and you can decide if it's worth it.  He can discuss whether your tinybox would support 48v phantom and the cables you'd need to send 48v out of the tinybox to work with the official DPA DAD6001 powering modules, and can discuss the potential for developing a PFA option that brings down the 16v to the 8-9v.  Unless you find out the 4061 capsules can tolerate 16v, your options for getting a lower voltage to the DPAs short of modding your tinybox probably will involve a bunch of somewhat bulky cables and adapters increasing the size of your recording rig, so that's something else to consider.

[aaronji]

I personally wouldn't send it 16v without checking with DPA directly about it.  As Aaronji notes, the DPA adapter is sending 8-9v to the capsule.  I wouldn't try sending 16v directly to the 4061 capsules without checking directly with DPA, regardless of what you might find on the internet (too much potential for mis-information).

I meant to suggest this previously.  I would highly recommend checking with DPA.  They are quick to respond to e-mails and they'll know better than anyone.  Try Colorado first probably (frequently, the requests to Denmark get answered by Longmont)...

[Gutbucket]

!!Do not attempt to power them directly with 16V!! That voltage is highly likely to damage them. The 5-50V specification assumes use of the adapters which step down the voltage. The DPA specification for the mics is 5 or 6V but 9V power works well.  As I recall upper the upper safe limit is something like 12V.  I have the the MMA6000 and the DAD6001 and assumed that they provide 5-6V but have never measured the voltage of either of them.  If Aaron has measured those then I stand corrected on that.

[edited to correct this after aaronji's DPA inquiry]

[aaronji]

^^^ I didn't measure them either.  But DPA says 9V from the two channel battery boxes in this brochure:  http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/Download/~/media/PDF/Download/Users%20Manuals/MPS6040.pdf.  Jon implies 8.2V from the phantom adapter in this post (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=107535.msg1435365#msg1435365) and there is also a discussion about it on micbuilders.  I know I have seen a similar figure for the MMA6000 but can't find it at the moment...

[aaronji]

^^^Yes, sorry, my wording was a bit sloppy.  That doesn't really change the point I was trying to make, though, which is that, given the voltages supplied by DPA's powering options and phantom adapters, I would be very hesitant to use 16V...

What do you think?  Would that voltage fry the mics?

[aaronji]

Curiosity got the better of me and I inquired with DPA...

These are very good questions, the mics ideally like 8-12V to run. I have seen people use as high as 18V with no problems and as low as 5V.  If you get lower than that the mic gets really noisy. Most of our little power supplies put out around 7-8V.

And in response to a follow-up question, they said, "16V is fine and it will not void the warranty". 

EDIT:  By the way, they responded in less than 30 minutes.  My experiences with DPA customer service have been nothing short of excellent.

[Gutbucket]

Good to know and thanks for checking!

BTW, I took note of the info below in the link to the DPA power battery box supply PDF you posted earlier-

Battery lifetime
The power consumption of a DPA miniature microphone is approx. 0.7mA.

Good to know as I have not seen current draw for these posted previoulsy.  Jon, is that about average or a higher draw than is typical for most small elecrets?

[taper666]

Curiosity got the better of me and I inquired with DPA...

These are very good questions, the mics ideally like 8-12V to run. I have seen people use as high as 18V with no problems and as low as 5V.  If you get lower than that the mic gets really noisy. Most of our little power supplies put out around 7-8V.

And in response to a follow-up question, they said, "16V is fine and it will not void the warranty". 

EDIT:  By the way, they responded in less than 30 minutes.  My experiences with DPA customer service have been nothing short of excellent.

Thanks for all your comments... got reply today after one week - the message seems contradictory to the quote above:

With the latest DAD6001 XLR adapter you can supply the microphone with Phantom Power voltage from 12 – 48V.

If you do not use DAD6001 connector you risk to damage the small mic pre in the microphone head when the supply voltage is more than 5V. It may work with 9V but it’s not recommendable however I need to inform you that violate the DPA warranty policy.

[aaronji]

^^^ Interesting.  The e-mail I quoted above is from the service manager at DPA Colorado.  You would hope he knows what he is talking about!  His response also seems more reasonable, to me, than the other (voiding the warranty by running 9V?), but I guess you never know...

[dogmusic]

Would it be safe then to use a simple 9V stereo battery box (i.e., 4.5V per mic), like the Sound Pro SP-SPSB-8 box, to power a pair of 4060 mics?

[adrianf74]

Would it be safe then to use a simple 9V stereo battery box (i.e., 4.5V per mic), like the Sound Pro SP-SPSB-8 box, to power a pair of 4060 mics?

Yes.