Topic: Feedback on recording and EQ suggestions

[depp91]

Hello guys!

I started stealth taping last year. I'm not the most prolific taper, having taped about ten shows since then.
A few days ago, I happened to make my favorite recording yet! It was a show by Kevin Morby and his band. I stood right in front of the stacks. The equipment I used was my SP-CMC-4Us and my Zoom F3 in 32bit float mode. The only thing I did in post was to adjust the levels and to limit a few stray peaks, then convert to 24bit FLAC. I didn't do any EQ and recorded without any bass rolloff. All in all, I've got two questions:
- How would you rate my recording?
- Do you think it needs EQ? If it does, what would you do?

Here's one song from my tape:
https://www.mediafire.com/file_premium/gfdpoxsx0i2tzyh/11._I_Have_Been_To_The_Mountain.flac

Any feedback and help is greatly appreciated!

[u2_fly_2]

I think the sample sound nice...I also listened on big speakers and one can hear all instruments quite clear...rating is always difficult because rating a live recording is quite subjective and everyone has their opinions...there is a bit of audience noise from time to time, but nothing too disturbing...well done!

[nulldogmas]

This sounds really good! Did you use omni or card caps on the 4U's?

I might experiment with nudging up the EQ over 1 kHz and nudging down the bass slightly to see if it brings out a bit more of the vocal. (See image below for a sample curve that I'll often start with.) But that's all a matter of taste — it sounds really good as-is, so it's all about how much richness you want to trade off for clarity.

(What I would actually do myself is pull it into iZotope RX and play with raising the vocals a dB or two and lowering the percussion a dB or two in Music Rebalance, which is my new favorite toy.)

[depp91]

I think the sample sound nice...I also listened on big speakers and one can hear all instruments quite clear...rating is always difficult because rating a live recording is quite subjective and everyone has their opinions...there is a bit of audience noise from time to time, but nothing too disturbing...well done!

Thanks a lot for the kind words! You're right, it's always subjective. And being a newbie I find it even harder to listen to my own recordings a bit more "objectively" as I would listen to recordings by others. (If you knew how many times I've listened to it since I've made it and every time it sounded different to my ears  ) So hearing from others that it's an enjoyable recording really means something!

[depp91]

This sounds really good! Did you use omni or card caps on the 4U's?

I might experiment with nudging up the EQ over 1 kHz and nudging down the bass slightly to see if it brings out a bit more of the vocal. (See image below for a sample curve that I'll often start with.) But that's all a matter of taste — it sounds really good as-is, so it's all about how much richness you want to trade off for clarity.

(What I would actually do myself is pull it into iZotope RX and play with raising the vocals a dB or two and lowering the percussion a dB or two in Music Rebalance, which is my new favorite toy.)

Thanks a lot, exactly the advice I was looking for!

I used cardioid capsules, they're the only ones I own. I stood at the right side of the stage directly in front of the stage and the stacks. The venue was small and of course I turned a bit left (would have looked really weird otherwise), so the right mic was actually turned directly to the stacks while the left one was probably directed somewhere between stage and audience. Strangely, the sound from both was rather similar except that the left one was about 2db quieter and of course picked up a bit more audience noise. But other than that, pretty similar.

That EQ suggestion is very useful to me, because I'm absolutely new to EQing recordings. Only thing I have done before was to reduce the bass in a recording I made that had that really rumbling bass.
What you're saying about richness vs. clarity is interesting and probably hard to decide. I might prefer keeping the richness and sacrificing a bit of clarity, at least that's what I'm leaning to in recordings by others, but we'll see. I'll report back!

What you're saying about reducing the percussion and raising the vocals a bit would probably involve AI? Creating stems and mixing them? It sounds enticing! Would you be willing to have a go with the song I posted above?
That being said, I don't have the means right now to purchase software like iZotope RX right now, having just ordered all the components for a 2nd, smaller stealth rig (Sony PCM A-10, CA-14 cards, battery box). So I'll have to make do with freeware software like Audacity for now...

[nulldogmas]

What you're saying about reducing the percussion and raising the vocals a bit would probably involve AI? Creating stems and mixing them? It sounds enticing! Would you be willing to have a go with the song I posted above?

Sure, I'll give it a shot. It's not going to make a huge difference, but you're really just looking for an incremental improvement, since it sounds good already.

That being said, I don't have the means right now to purchase software like iZotope RX right now, having just ordered all the components for a 2nd, smaller stealth rig (Sony PCM A-10, CA-14 cards, battery box). So I'll have to make do with freeware software like Audacity for now...

RX Standard 11 is actually on sale now at Sweetwater for $200, but I get that that's not nothing. Btw, in my experience the CA-14 cards are pretty much identical in sound to the CMC-4U cards, though I guess they are a smidge smaller.

[nulldogmas]

Here's an example of Music Rebalance set to vocals +2 dB, bass -1, percussion -2, other instruments 0. I don't actually think I like it better — the vocals get a little harsh when boosted this much — but it should give you a sense of what splitting to stems can do.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hek64ksdwftihp2h2ou7a/11.-I-Have-Been-To-The-Mountain-rebalanced.flac?rlkey=16aucl3ay63o8gi6b75yt860k&dl=0

[depp91]

What you're saying about reducing the percussion and raising the vocals a bit would probably involve AI? Creating stems and mixing them? It sounds enticing! Would you be willing to have a go with the song I posted above?

Sure, I'll give it a shot. It's not going to make a huge difference, but you're really just looking for an incremental improvement, since it sounds good already.

That being said, I don't have the means right now to purchase software like iZotope RX right now, having just ordered all the components for a 2nd, smaller stealth rig (Sony PCM A-10, CA-14 cards, battery box). So I'll have to make do with freeware software like Audacity for now...

RX Standard 11 is actually on sale now at Sweetwater for $200, but I get that that's not nothing. Btw, in my experience the CA-14 cards are pretty much identical in sound to the CMC-4U cards, though I guess they are a smidge smaller.

My current SP-CMC-4Us have the XLR phantom power configuration. I love them, but the XLR connectors are pretty bulky and so is the ZOOM F3, unfortunately.
So I needed a new set of mics to use with the Sony PCM A10. I picked the CA-14s exactly for the reason that people say they sound very similar to the SP-CMC-4Us and are a bit cheaper 

Here's an example of Music Rebalance set to vocals +2 dB, bass -1, percussion -2, other instruments 0. I don't actually think I like it better — the vocals get a little harsh when boosted this much — but it should give you a sense of what splitting to stems can do.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hek64ksdwftihp2h2ou7a/11.-I-Have-Been-To-The-Mountain-rebalanced.flac?rlkey=16aucl3ay63o8gi6b75yt860k&dl=0

I've played with the EQ of the original file a bit via your suggestion. To be honest, I ended up being completely undecided what I like best, so for the moment, I've left it as it is. 

I like your rebalanced file a lot! Particularly the raised vocals and reduced percussion. I'm not sure about the bass, since in that song, it's an integral part of the sound for me. But it gives me a good idea of what remixing software that uses AI is capable now. Pretty cool!!!

Have you got any experience removing reverb from a recording, using AI?

[nulldogmas]

My current SP-CMC-4Us have the XLR phantom power configuration. I love them, but the XLR connectors are pretty bulky and so is the ZOOM F3, unfortunately.
So I needed a new set of mics to use with the Sony PCM A10. I picked the CA-14s exactly for the reason that people say they sound very similar to the SP-CMC-4Us and are a bit cheaper 

That is an excellent reason! I've run side by side comparisons of the CA-14 and CMC-4U and found them virtually indistinguishable — my one caution would be to go extra gentle on the CA-14s, as the wires are a bit fragile and can develop static. (There are folks on here who can repair them cheap if that happens, though.)

I like your rebalanced file a lot! Particularly the raised vocals and reduced percussion. I'm not sure about the bass, since in that song, it's an integral part of the sound for me. But it gives me a good idea of what remixing software that uses AI is capable now. Pretty cool!!!

If I were doing this for real I would split the recording into stems, dump them all into Audacity, and then ride the faders until I got something I was happy with. (Or, equally often, not be able to figure out what I like best, and decide instead to go with the original version. I do that with EQ constantly as well.)

Have you got any experience removing reverb from a recording, using AI?

The first time I tried the De-reverb filter (from a recording at Carnegie Hall, of all places) it was magic and I decided I would try it on every boomy recording from now on. Then every other recording I tried it on sounded worse after I applied it, so I guess my answer is "Yes, but not necessarily useful experience."

[robgronotte]

If you're looking to try out splitting the recording into stems and remixing, UVR5 is free and works better for that than does RX in my experience.

[nulldogmas]

If you're looking to try out splitting the recording into stems and remixing, UVR5 is free and works better for that than does RX in my experience.

UVR5 is terrific, but it only splits into two stems: vocals and everything else.

[robgronotte]

If you're looking to try out splitting the recording into stems and remixing, UVR5 is free and works better for that than does RX in my experience.

UVR5 is terrific, but it only splits into two stems: vocals and everything else.

No, at least some of the algorithms split into 4 tracks. Can't remember what they are right now.

[AbbyTaper]

If you're looking to try out splitting the recording into stems and remixing, UVR5 is free and works better for that than does RX in my experience.

UVR5 is terrific, but it only splits into two stems: vocals and everything else.

Unless your version is different than mine - it splits to vocals, bass, drums, and other.  Not as many options as SpectraLayers. 

[nulldogmas]

If you're looking to try out splitting the recording into stems and remixing, UVR5 is free and works better for that than does RX in my experience.

UVR5 is terrific, but it only splits into two stems: vocals and everything else.

No, at least some of the algorithms split into 4 tracks. Can't remember what they are right now.

Okay, I need to find those, then. Only outputs to 16 bit, though, right?

[AbbyTaper]

If you're looking to try out splitting the recording into stems and remixing, UVR5 is free and works better for that than does RX in my experience.

UVR5 is terrific, but it only splits into two stems: vocals and everything else.

No, at least some of the algorithms split into 4 tracks. Can't remember what they are right now.

Okay, I need to find those, then. Only outputs to 16 bit, though, right?

Yeah, which sucks.