Topic: (Newb) Recording device that won't break the bank

[jbell]

I am looking into purchasing a JB3, Iriver h120 or Microtrack 2, but not sure if it is the right route.  I want a device that would be good to patch to a soundboard or easy to patch into another tapers gear without causing them to much trouble!!!  I live in Asheville where there is tons of taper friendly music and this summer I am traveling and hitting the 10,000 lakes fest. (if anyone is going would appreciate a patch and some mentoring advice at the shows) and catching other shows along the way.  I eventually want to build a rig, but I want to start small.  Back in the late 90's my brother and I recorded some show with minidisc, but it seems like that is a dieing technology.  Any advice would be much appreciated!!!  Thanks to everyone in advance

JB

[acidjack]

I am looking into purchasing a JB3, Iriver h120 or Microtrack 2, but not sure if it is the right route.  I want a device that would be good to patch to a soundboard or easy to patch into another tapers gear without causing them to much trouble!!!  I live in Asheville where there is tons of taper friendly music and this summer I am traveling and hitting the 10,000 lakes fest. (if anyone is going would appreciate a patch and some mentoring advice at the shows) and catching other shows along the way.  I eventually want to build a rig, but I want to start small.  Back in the late 90's my brother and I recorded some show with minidisc, but it seems like that is a dieing technology.  Any advice would be much appreciated!!!  Thanks to everyone in advance

JB

If the R-09HR isn't out of your price range (it's $300 new; less used; see www.soundprofessionals.com for a new unit), that's your best bet and it has somewhat decent built-in mics.  You can probably find a used unit on here or elsewhere. Its predecessor, the R-01, was also pretty solid, though the preamp in it is not as good.

My familiarity with the three you mentioned is lower, but I feel like I see the most positive comments about the iRiver.  But, I'll leave that to the folks that actually use them.

Honestly, if you have access to an MD or DAT and know how to get the recordings onto a computer, those options (especially a DAT) are just fine. A reliable DAT machine like an old workhouse D8 or D100 is certainly a fine unit for recording, though a bit more of a pain to transfer to computer obviously than something that records to an SD card.  The MD being lossy makes it less desirable, but if it meant that I could afford some decent mics like SP-CMC-8 or Church CA14s, I'd use that or a DAT in a heartbeat.

Just my $.02. 

[darby]

DAT is totally out... why even bother?
if you plan on patching out of another taper, you shouldn't go the analog route
then you need something with SPDIF input so you can receive a digital input
and the iRivers need an optical input which no machine I am aware of can pass
(I didn't say pre amp) so that leaves you with the MTII out of what you mentioned
that also gives you the option of 24 bit (the JB3 doesn't, which is also optical)

I think that patching is a good way to start if you are unsure about what you want
you can try different mics and pre amps to see what YOU like

[jbell]

much appreciated!!! I would like to stay away from Minidisc or DAT recorders.  R-09 HR it seems to be a favorite.  Thanks for your advice.

[jbell]

would the R-09 be a better choose than the microtrack 2? 

[F.O.Bean]

would the R-09 be a better choose than the microtrack 2? 

Well, it depends on what exactly you want to do with it. The R-9/R-9HR DO NOT HAVE DIGITAL INPUTS, ONLY ANALOG, correct? While the MTI/MTII have a COAX DIGITAL INPUT that you CAN get a patch with. So if you do plan on patching more than running your own rig, I would go with an MTII! Then if you decide you like the hobby and want to get your own mics/preamp/adc/etc, then you already have the backend of your rig and can use the MTII you'd already have.

[jbell]

Thanks Bean I was leaning towards the MT II because of price, but was kind of hesitant based on complaints on TS. 

[Jeremy Lykins]

Thanks Bean I was leaning towards the MT II because of price, but was kind of hesitant based on complaints on TS. 

You'll need an external battery pack for the MTII because the life of its internal battery is horrible.  The R-09 will run for at least 7 hours on AA batteries. 

[jbell]

Thanks JackDog, What about a Korg MR1?  Does this device have a Coax digital input?  You can get one brand new on ebay for $199 or should I invest in a MTI or II?  I want to start with something that I could get a digital patch out of.  I am still skeptical about Microtrack due to some many complaints, but the price isn't bad.  Any advice or suggestions would help and thanks to everyone for their input!!

[Jeremy Lykins]

Why do you need a digital patch?  There's nothing wrong with an analog patch, IMO.  I don't know anything about the Korg MR1, but I'd stay away from the Microtrack recorders if I were you.

[darby]

Why do you need a digital patch?  There's nothing wrong with an analog patch, IMO.  I don't know anything about the Korg MR1, but I'd stay away from the Microtrack recorders if I were you.

why add an analog/digital conversion?... get the signal originally converted
I have 2 friends locally that use the MTII
one uses a Mini ME, and the other gets DIGITAL patches from me
both are EXTREMELY happy with their units

the only unit that accepts SPDIF in your price range, is the MTII

[jbell]

Thanks Darby, I am leanin' towards the MT II based on the dig. coax, but want to give others a chance to support their devices and see what the best value for my money is!!!!!  Not getting allot of info. on the other devices.  It you have any expertise with these devices please chime in.  Thanks a ton JB

[darby]

I have a friend that uses a Marantz 620, and another that uses the R-09
but otherwise I don't know anyone personally that uses a machine in your price range

all units obviously have their pros and cons, it just depends what you want to use it for
by having SPDIF, you can get a digital patch from another taper
and the ability to run out of a pre amp like my V3 or the Mini ME in the future
other pre amps like the V2, the Neve Portico or the Aerco MP2 only have analog out capability
which will be fine with the Marantz 620, the R-09 and a few other units in your price range
 
don't be in a hurry to get something you may not want down the line

[jbell]

so I am gettin the feeling I should lean towards the MTII

[E@rl]

I'm actually in the process of upgrading to the MTII, from my JB3... I dont know if your still in the market but shoot me a PM and let me know if you are interested.

Its fully functional has two batteries, wall charger and USB cable. Works great ive used it for the past year, but I just recently bought almost a whole new rig so i figured id just upgrade my recording device as well..

[jbell]

E@rl I emailed you for some reason I can't PM people? 

[fmaderjr]

Honestly, if you have access to an MD or DAT and know how to get the recordings onto a computer, those options (especially a DAT) are just fine. A reliable DAT machine like an old workhouse D8 or D100 is certainly a fine unit for recording, though a bit more of a pain to transfer to computer obviously than something that records to an SD card.  The MD being lossy makes it less desirable, but if it meant that I could afford some decent mics like SP-CMC-8 or Church CA14s, I'd use that or a DAT in a heartbeat.
Just my $.02. 

I like MD more than most people here (even pre Hi-MD) but a definite no to the DAT. I used a D100 for years and it made great recordings when it was working fine, but it was NOT reliable. Every 2 years or so I started getting too many dropouts and had to spend $200+ at ProDigital to correct the problem. Paul said it is full of plastic parts that can break even when you are not using the machine. Plus if you use it for say 1000 hours, I think, the heads will go. The repair job on that costs way more than the recorder is now worth. This is all in addition to the hassle of uploading your recordings to the computer, which for many people would be reason alone to stay away from DAT.

[acidjack]

Honestly, if you have access to an MD or DAT and know how to get the recordings onto a computer, those options (especially a DAT) are just fine. A reliable DAT machine like an old workhouse D8 or D100 is certainly a fine unit for recording, though a bit more of a pain to transfer to computer obviously than something that records to an SD card.  The MD being lossy makes it less desirable, but if it meant that I could afford some decent mics like SP-CMC-8 or Church CA14s, I'd use that or a DAT in a heartbeat.
Just my $.02. 

I like MD more than most people here (even pre Hi-MD) but a definite no to the DAT. I used a D100 for years and it made great recordings when it was working fine, but it was NOT reliable. Every 2 years or so I started getting too many dropouts and had to spend $200+ at ProDigital to correct the problem. Paul said it is full of plastic parts that can break even when you are not using the machine. Plus if you use it for say 1000 hours, I think, the heads will go. The repair job on that costs way more than the recorder is now worth. This is all in addition to the hassle of uploading your recordings to the computer, which for many people would be reason alone to stay away from DAT.

Agree, DAT is a pain in the ass. The only point of my post was, if you had access to a FREE or VERY CHEAP DAT or MD, given the OP's desire to do a few SBD patches here and there, maybe tape shows later, the thing would do the job.  Clearly a good solid state recorder like the R-09 is superior, but if price is a major issue, again, I'm just pointing out that an old unit like that will do the job, especially if you don't have to pay for it.   

FWIW, I recorded hundreds of shows with my D8 and used pretty unremarkable home decks... never had any maintenance issue other than just doing regular cleanings with the head cleaner.  No doubt I was one of the lucky ones!

[Jeremy Lykins]

I have 2 friends locally that use the MTII
one uses a Mini ME, and the other gets DIGITAL patches from me

Does the guy who patches out have to use an external battery? 

[jbell]

I am leaning towards the MT II or the edirol r09!  Price is a concern, but I cant spend some $ I just don't want to drop $400-$500 on a recorder.  I just want a reliable device I can patch with until I can put together my own rig!  Also would I need and external battery with the MT II if I was patched into another tapers gear?  Man you guys have been tons of help!!!

[darby]

I have 2 friends locally that use the MTII
one uses a Mini ME, and the other gets DIGITAL patches from me

Does the guy who patches out have to use an external battery? 

they both use a USB type of battery
I don't know if they HAVE to
I think they do it for peace of mind knowing they can get the entire show

[jbell]

Thanks Darby!!! How about the MTI I found a new one for under $200.  Is this a problematic device, I have read some not so great posts.   I think I am going to most likely buy an MTII.  I think for the money it will provide what I need.  I have read some bad reviews on the MTII, but I think most recorder in this price range have some short comings.  Everyone has been really helpful and I thank all the folks on TS that have shared their knowledge.

[darby]

new MTIIs can be had for $250

[jbell]

Thanks Darby, I purchased a MTII for $234 on ebay! 

[taperwheeler]

Thanks Darby, I purchased a MTII for $234 on ebay! 

Welcome to taping!  Any questions along the way, feel free to buzz.  I've been running my mt2 for awhile now.

First things first, be sure to firmware update as soon as you get it out the box.  Another piece of useful info, I've recently been told to reformat the card every so often.  Think it helps prevent read/write errors.

Enjoy!

[jbell]

Thanks tapewheeler, could you suggest some SD cards that are a reliable brand!  Also what cables would I need to get a dig. or analog patch into another tapers gear or a sound board?

[taperwheeler]

Thanks tapewheeler, could you suggest some SD cards that are a reliable brand!  Also what cables would I need to get a dig. or analog patch into another tapers gear or a sound board?

not sd...the mt2 takes compact flash.  check out newegg.com, they usually have great deals on cards.  i suggest at least an 8gb card.  i use a 16...will hold a ton of music.  that way i don't worry about taking cards in and out risking damage.  my 16gb card is an a-data.  from what i've heard and read, the mt2 seems to work with most cf cards.

you'll need a spdif>spdif cable to get feeds from digi spdif sources.  soundboards have a variety of outputs so eventually you'll need a variety of cables.  most boards have xlr connects.  for sbd feeds, you'll be mostly receiving an analog source.  for that you will be running into the 1/4" line-in's of the recorder.  as i'm sure you've read, running in via the 1/4" input you need a specially wired cable (if you will be using any internal preamp gain).  i picked one up from the sound professionals.  they can wire you either a female 1/8" to dual 1/4" male or 1/8" male to 1/4" male cable.  from there you can pick up the additional adapters and interconnecting cables that will have you setup for receiving any kind of signal.  This link is useful to show the diff interconnects: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,14253.0.html

[F.O.Bean]

Format your CF Card after you transfer to your comp. I reformat my 32GB CF Card before EVERY SHOW. After every show, I save a copy on my 722's 40GB INHDD, and then reformat my CF Card again. Unless you want weird errors or dropouts, just format the card before every recording What I'm saying is, DO NOT DELETE and then record. Format, write until card is full, transfer to comp, reformat card to be fresh again, DONE!

Got it? Ive heard MANY weird things happening to tapers that resulted in a loss of a recording, or dropouts, that can be traced back to a CF Card that wasnt formated in a while!

[taperwheeler]

Format your CF Card after you transfer to your comp. I reformat my 32GB CF Card before EVERY SHOW. After every show, I save a copy on my 722's 40GB INHDD, and then reformat my CF Card again. Unless you want weird errors or dropouts, just format the card before every recording What I'm saying is, DO NOT DELETE and then record. Format, write until card is full, transfer to comp, reformat card to be fresh again, DONE!

Got it? Ive heard MANY weird things happening to tapers that resulted in a loss of a recording, or dropouts, that can be traced back to a CF Card that wasnt formated in a while!

The one and only prob I've had with my mt2 occurred for this very reason.  Had used it a lot and never reformatted.  Then had a read error trying to dump a show to the computer.  Luckily I was able to recover the data, but now I reformat after every outing.

It's funny but I've yet to see any digital recorder company make this reccomendation.

[jbell]

Thanks for the advice!  muck appreciated! 

[F.O.Bean]

Format your CF Card after you transfer to your comp. I reformat my 32GB CF Card before EVERY SHOW. After every show, I save a copy on my 722's 40GB INHDD, and then reformat my CF Card again. Unless you want weird errors or dropouts, just format the card before every recording What I'm saying is, DO NOT DELETE and then record. Format, write until card is full, transfer to comp, reformat card to be fresh again, DONE!

Got it? Ive heard MANY weird things happening to tapers that resulted in a loss of a recording, or dropouts, that can be traced back to a CF Card that wasnt formated in a while!

It's funny but I've yet to see any digital recorder company make this reccomendation.

Its funny you mention that, because I too have NEVER seen/noticed a company to recommend formatting the CF Cards before every outing That's pretty strange actually, now that you mention it You'd think that they would have a HUGE DISCLAIMER stating that the CF Card manufacturer nor recorder manufacturer is NOT liable for any messed up recording sessions, as long as you reformatted the card prior to recording.....

Did I say that right? Hell, I don't know? Did I make any sense at the end of that paragraph Yinz know what I meant to say tho, right?

[John Willett]

muck appreciated! 

You must be a farmer. 

[nak700s]

Stay away from anything that has to use a rechargable battery.  You want to keep it simple if you are not fending for yourself.  Simply put, if you are going to festivals, you want portability.  make sure that whatever you end up with takes flash cards (SD cards) and regular alkaline batteries or you are screwed in the field.

Personally, I have your easy way out if you'd like.  I recently received a Zoom H2 as a gift and have no use for it.  If you want to buy it, I will sell it to you for $160.00 delivered.  It is brand new and never removed from its original box.  This recorder, or another like it, would be best for your needs.

[jbell]

Thanks, I already bought a MTII and a usb battery charger!  I think this should work for my purposes.  I do appreciate the offer!

[darby]

Personally, I have your easy way out if you'd like.  I recently received a Zoom H2 as a gift and have no use for it.  If you want to buy it, I will sell it to you for $160.00 delivered.  It is brand new and never removed from its original box.  This recorder, or another like it, would be best for your needs.

C'mon Brian...
why don't you use it and step into the 21st century    
I know you only quit using your D5 a year or so ago 

[jbell]

I even know that a DAT is a museum piece!!!

[taperwheeler]

Stay away from anything that has to use a rechargable battery.  You want to keep it simple if you are not fending for yourself.  Simply put, if you are going to festivals, you want portability.  make sure that whatever you end up with takes flash cards (SD cards) and regular alkaline batteries or you are screwed in the field.

Personally, I have your easy way out if you'd like.  I recently received a Zoom H2 as a gift and have no use for it.  If you want to buy it, I will sell it to you for $160.00 delivered.  It is brand new and never removed from its original box.  This recorder, or another like it, would be best for your needs.

Is this just a sales pitch?  I remember reading that compact flash has been proven more reliable than sd.  From my experience with my mt, have had no problems in 2 years of consistant use with it.  And the battery issue...the unit runs a good 4-5 hours plus on the internal alone.  My macally battery pack (which is super small) easily doubles it.  Don't consider this "screwed in the field".   

[fmaderjr]

I agree with taperwheeler. Anything from Zoom is has a number of problems. Musicians like the H2 for taping their own rehearsals, etc. but for live concert recording the MT II is FAR better.

[jbell]

I am in on the MTII, it provides all I need!! Also has a dig. coax