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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: Scooter123 on March 19, 2009, 11:20:48 AM

Title: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: Scooter123 on March 19, 2009, 11:20:48 AM
Putting together another mike rig for Schoeps mk4

Requirements are stealthy small, fitting under an armpit or on belt

Onboard DC powered (no external power)

At least 30 db gain. 

I don't need vu's, as I will use the recorder's input vus. 

Mikes will be Schoeps mk4 caps without body

For use with Active cables like Schoeps KC type

Hopefully with 3.5mm Stereo out

Recorder is Edirol

Suggestions?

I don't often recognize initials and code words, so full spelling of preamps would be appreciated.  Thanks in Advance, Guys.
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: Brian Skalinder on March 19, 2009, 11:25:22 AM
I only know of three preamps that work with Schoeps caps and without Schoeps bodies:

Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: Scooter123 on March 19, 2009, 02:24:33 PM
Thanks.

Thats exactly the information I needed.  I suspected the N Box was what I wanted, and the SonoSax is a tad large for my intended use.  I just your guy an email. 

Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: GDfan on March 19, 2009, 02:39:04 PM
Schoeps CMR solution is quite small:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,100090.msg1544717.html#msg1544717
I am sure you could use the same set up going into the edirol as this is pictured going into the PMD620
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: JasonSobel on March 19, 2009, 02:55:01 PM
yes, definitely look into the CMR solution.  Alternatively, you could get the CCM4 mics instead of the mk4 caps, and you'd open up your options to anything that provided +48v phantom... like the aerco mp-2 (as just one example).
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: jerryfreak on March 21, 2009, 01:56:31 PM
cmr with a tiny battery box and your choice of small pre (church, adc20, mic 2496) is your best bet for price and flexibility. ccms are not an option for most because youre looking at 3 grand for every different set of caps you want to have.

i forgot to grab my church custom cmr pre before i went to hampton. sucks but if i woulda missed that flight i would not have been happy. i'll take some pics of it when i can



Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: schoepsnbox on March 21, 2009, 09:03:50 PM
cmr with a tiny battery box and your choice of small pre (church, adc20, mic 2496) is your best bet for price and flexibility.



What would be total cost of the CMR's, BB and let's say the cheapest pre-amp for this set-up??  Truly Curious
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: jerryfreak on March 21, 2009, 09:13:00 PM
cmrs are $1060/pair

battery box is $10-$30 in parts

there are a bunch of tiny stealth pres from church and others in the $100-$300 range

nottingham has had great results using the edirol r09 pre, go to the cmr thread to find a link to his archive shows


cmr with a tiny battery box and your choice of small pre (church, adc20, mic 2496) is your best bet for price and flexibility.



What would be total cost of the CMR's, BB and let's say the cheapest pre-amp for this set-up??  Truly Curious
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: todd e on March 23, 2009, 11:38:28 AM
vms02ib pre-amp, grab yourself a pair of RCA > 1/8" mini and you are in business.
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: udovdh on May 10, 2009, 12:46:11 PM
Please be aware that in some situations the nbox/mic combo produce unnecessary hot signals which could cause issues in the recording/recorder.
See the R09hr thread elsewhere.
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: edtyre on May 10, 2009, 01:18:46 PM
Please be aware that in some situations the nbox/mic combo produce unnecessary hot signals which could cause issues in the recording/recorder.
See the R09hr thread elsewhere.

Let me give you my slant......it's the recorders that there is an issue with, not the schoeps nbox combo.
When the nbox is run into an r-44, or sd 7xx boxes there is no problem. The problem is with the r-09 and r-09hr.
In well over 50 recordings with the nbox/r-09 combo, i had only 2 instances of the distortion with heavy bass, once
for a few seconds and once for a few songs........the last one was a ZZ Top stack tape 10 feet from the speaker
set on #2 (so we shouldn't even count that one)

My opinion is this combo smokes and i encourage others to run this in the field for any taping situations.
I now have an attenuator cable in my kit for those once in a while situations  8)
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: it-goes-to-eleven on May 10, 2009, 01:34:19 PM
Please be aware that in some situations the nbox/mic combo produce unnecessary hot signals which could cause issues in the recording/recorder.
See the R09hr thread elsewhere.

Let me give you my slant......it's the recorders that there is an issue with, not the schoeps nbox combo.

Absolutely agree.  It is the r09 and r09hr that are distorting the audio.   There is no excuse for that.  Otherwise, I like the r09.

Here's my original post on the issue from two years ago:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,84587.0.html
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: udovdh on May 12, 2009, 12:18:32 PM
Please be aware that in some situations the nbox/mic combo produce unnecessary hot signals which could cause issues in the recording/recorder.
See the R09hr thread elsewhere.

Let me give you my slant......it's the recorders that there is an issue with, not the schoeps nbox combo.
Did I imply otherwise?
So far only Schoeps anr/or nbox users.
No conclusive signals/levels to use to recreate the situation in the lab.
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: jerryfreak on July 06, 2009, 09:27:04 PM
heres some recordings i made at high sierra with mk4v>cmr>church ugly pre>r09hr

devil makes three http://www.sendspace.com/file/4h6r04

marco benevento trio w/skerik http://www.sendspace.com/file/6gx3ki
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: paulbaptiste on July 07, 2009, 02:28:53 AM
are you uploading the DM3 show anywhere?  I'd love to have it.  Recently found out about this band, and so far very impressed.

Nick
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: jerryfreak on July 07, 2009, 03:50:37 AM
ill tell ya what, dl that mp3 and help me out with a tracklist on all those old bluegrass tunes and well talk!




are you uploading the DM3 show anywhere?  I'd love to have it.  Recently found out about this band, and so far very impressed.

Nick
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: funkoff13 on July 15, 2009, 07:54:29 PM
I only know of three preamps that work with Schoeps caps and without Schoeps bodies:

  • Sonosax SX-M2/LS2 ("Lemosax") with Schoeps or custom KCY cable (discontinued, available used)
  • N-Box with custom active cables ("boutique" manufacture; contact schoepsnbox here on TS)
  • Schoeps VMS (not familiar enough with the different models to list them all here)

1.  i have a new one.... sonoslacks, but its swiss made brah.  a little refresher, sonoflat, sonosux, sonolax, sonocrap. 
2.  nbox....boutique is right and the ONLY 60V option (yes  i am still on a 60V parade).  nicky provides great customer service and the box is built very well. nice full frequency range.  sounds amazing with the mk21's NOS. 
3.  Schoeps VMS....the VMSo2ib has bass rolloff.  nice pre.  IMO the 2nd best option behind the nbox. 



as others have mentioned the 'hot signals' from the nbox are only sometimes an issue with the edirol mini recorders.  edtyre said it best.  additionally, i would read freelunches original posts regarding the r09.  these 2 members are both great resources. 

Please be aware that in some situations the nbox/mic combo produce unnecessary hot signals which could cause issues in the recording/recorder.
See the R09hr thread elsewhere.

Let me give you my slant......it's the recorders that there is an issue with, not the schoeps nbox combo.
Did I imply otherwise?
So far only Schoeps anr/or nbox users.
No conclusive signals/levels to use to recreate the situation in the lab.

you clearly did.  you said 'nbox mic combos produce.'  did i read it wrong.  i know my reading comprehension sonosux.
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: carpa on July 18, 2009, 05:20:10 AM
freelunch says: "It is the r09 and r09hr that are distorting the audio.   There is no excuse for that."

I'm not an expert, but I wonder how can R09hr overload the line input, which has a nominal +2 db, and a max of +28 (as Guysonic measured); this is not +4, but neither -10, which is found in most consumer pocket recorder.

On ts there are a lot of posts of Digifish and others which run r09hr with external preamps (church audio, mixpre ecc.) with no particular issues.

I'n not doubting the fact, of course, just wondering how can it be and if there's a way of guessing how preamp+line in will be just  by reading the specs.
thanks
c
Title: Re: Stealthy Preamp Request for Schoeps > Active Cable > Preamp > Edirol
Post by: DSatz on November 23, 2009, 11:32:29 PM
Just wanted to tack on a note because I saw that the Schoeps CCM 4 was being talked about, and someone had said that it requires 48 Volt phantom powering.

Actually any microphone in the CCM series will have two available phantom powering modes, one at 48 Volts and the other at 12 Volts. That's a big advantage for battery-powered live recording. Not only is 48 Volts rather awkward to generate while 12 Volts is not, but DC converters can be more efficient when stepping a voltage up by a substantial factor (12 Volts to 60 Volts) rather than a small one (48 -> 60). In short, the power consumption per microphone is 50% lower when powered at 12 Volts than at 48 Volts, and the performance (dynamic range, etc.) of the microphone is identical in all respects.

The same happens to be true of Schoeps CMC 6-- amplifiers, by the way.

--best regards