Topic: Which small diaphram mics would fit in...

[su6oxone]

... a hat?

Just curious...

Wondering if the Beyer mc930 or the Neumann km184 would fit inside of a bucket-style Kangol.  Are they too long, especially after attaching the cables?  Anyone know? 

[jeromejello]

both of the ones you mention are huge compared to what you already have and will still provide very nice results.

[su6oxone]

both of the ones you mention are huge compared to what you already have and will still provide very nice results.

Hi and thanks for the response.  I'm not sure what you mean though, are you saying that they are huge and definitely would not likely fit inside an average Kangol?  Which ones will provide very nice results... those two I mentioned or the AT853s I am using these days?  Thanks for any clarification!

[jeromejello]

i was referring to the AT853s were ideal in size and they would have very good results. 

i have seen all sizes of mics used in stealth situations, so i am sure the 184s can be done, but it would probably be a lot more awkward then the little AT's with only little (imho) improvement over the 184s when in a stealth mode (which are naturally more noisy and chatty).

[su6oxone]

i was referring to the AT853s were ideal in size and they would have very good results. 

i have seen all sizes of mics used in stealth situations, so i am sure the 184s can be done, but it would probably be a lot more awkward then the little AT's with only little (imho) improvement over the 184s when in a stealth mode (which are naturally more noisy and chatty).

I see... thx for the input.  I thought I was satisfied with my AT853s until I heard a recording of the same show done with MBHO 703a mics and then I realized how much difference a good mic can make.  I wish I could get the schoeps ccm4/41 mics but those are a tad expensive so I'm hoping to get something cheaper like the km184s that could theoretically fit inside a Kangol for those stealthy situations...

[flipp]

Rather than trying to put a full-bodied mic in a Kangol, you would probably have better luck looking into active mics. Do a search her on ts, plenty of information available. Actives basically sep er ate the capsule from the mic body. Some of the more popular active setups are the MBHO 603a, various Schoeps combinations and Neumann KM100 series. Beyer is reportedly releasing to market an active setup sometime this fall which may be the cheapest of those listed. There are a few lesser known brands that also offer actives. Like I said, use the search function to find them.


<edited for a bad case of fatfingeritis this morning>

[Nick's Picks]

you can easily stealth 184's or mc930s.  the 184 is only about 2" longer than the 140 on an active cable.
It will take some effort, but once you have it ...you have it.


and yea, good mics make a difference, as you have noted. 

[su6oxone]

you can easily stealth 184's or mc930s.  the 184 is only about 2" longer than the 140 on an active cable.
It will take some effort, but once you have it ...you have it.


and yea, good mics make a difference, as you have noted. 

Thanks for all suggestions, +T to all. 

Using actives like the km140s sounds like a good idea, except that it sounds pretty cumbersome, with cables from the caps to the bodies and from the bodies to the preamp/power supply, unless you could directly plug the km140s into, say, a PS-2. 

But are there any reasons not to connect the mic bodies directly into a PS-2?. 

I'm thinking the 184s are my best option to stealth inside a Kangol.  I would prefer the mc930s but they are about 1" longer than the 184s and would be harder to squeeze under the roof of the hat.

[Nick's Picks]

nope, you can plug the km100 body directly into a preamp or phantom.  you can w/any microphone in fact.
*edit*
that is to say, condenser microphone.

[su6oxone]

nope, you can plug the km100 body directly into a preamp or phantom.  you can w/any microphone in fact.

Awesome.  Thanks Nick's Picks. 

[Todd R]

I used to run km184's and ran them stealth in a kangol-type hat (similar, but not kangol) a number of times.  I used some custom XLR cables I made that were even smaller than the custom RA stubbies some people make/run and used a low profile cable stock -- a really small mogami cable IIRC, but the Canare L2-B2AT is another good cable option.

I still own AT853's, but the km184s are a different league.  Your recordings will be much better, but they are a fairly difficult stealth option.  With the hat I had, I was able to run them XY in the brim, but AB on the sides of the head would be easier.

My overall judgement is that if you mainly do open taping and want to step up to full size mics, you can still do the occasional stealth recording with 184's, but if stealth is your main application I don't think I'd recommend the 184s.

All that said, didn't someone just have some MBHO active mics on sale in the yardsale?

[cmoorevt]

I used to run km184's and ran them stealth in a kangol-type hat (similar, but not kangol) a number of times.  I used some custom XLR cables I made that were even smaller than the custom RA stubbies some people make/run and used a low profile cable stock -- a really small mogami cable IIRC, but the Canare L2-B2AT is another good cable option.

I'm using Mogami 2490 with my 184s and exactly as Todd mentions, shorty xlr connectors and AB on the sides.  I found that a regular right angle Neutrik connector fit, but it eventually gave me a headache.

[Rick]

Save and Wait for the Beyer CK930s 

[John Kelly]

I'd recommend Audix m1290s for the full body stealth situations.

[su6oxone]

Thanks to all for the input.  The actives seem to be too costly (cmc and km140s) and the beyers aren't out yet so I think I might try km184 since they seem to be the shortest of the bunch (compared to mc930, akg 480s, etc.).  Hopefully they will fit somehow into the Kangol.  I'll post pics if I'm successful 

[Nick's Picks]

the audix advise was sound.
no pun....

[su6oxone]

the audix advise was sound.
no pun....

I just checked those out, and they (well, evidently they are now replaced by the 1280s) look pretty short (3.5").  Might have to consider these bad boys too... 

[John Kelly]

the audix advise was sound.
no pun....

I just checked those out, and they (well, evidently they are now replaced by the 1280s) look pretty short (3.5").  Might have to consider these bad boys too... 

They're short and also much smaller in diameter than the other mics you're looking at (12mm vs 20mm+)

[su6oxone]

They're short and also much smaller in diameter than the other mics you're looking at (12mm vs 20mm+)

I do like the size...

[Nick's Picks]

and they sound great.  like a little AKG

[Sunday Driver]

Thanks to all for the input.  The actives seem to be too costly (cmc and km140s) and the beyers aren't out yet so I think I might try km184 since they seem to be the shortest of the bunch (compared to mc930, akg 480s, etc.).  Hopefully they will fit somehow into the Kangol.  I'll post pics if I'm successful 

If you are out listening to samples, you might want to listen to some AKG ck9x (blue line) actives samples. I run AT U853s at the moment, but these might be the next step for me since they are slightly more detailed and have additional warmth/bass response. The capsule is larger than the 853, but all you have is the capsule and slightly hacked "body"/cable. Then you just run mini-XLR cables into a three wire battery box for power and then your recorder (or before that, a preamp). The capsules are not cheap, but come in different polar patterns.

Here's one for example: http://www.archive.org/details/localh2008-05-08.cabbage.AKGck93.flac16

[su6oxone]

If you are out listening to samples, you might want to listen to some AKG ck9x (blue line) actives samples. I run AT U853s at the moment, but these might be the next step for me since they are slightly more detailed and have additional warmth/bass response. The capsule is larger than the 853, but all you have is the capsule and slightly hacked "body"/cable. Then you just run mini-XLR cables into a three wire battery box for power and then your recorder (or before that, a preamp). The capsules are not cheap, but come in different polar patterns.

Here's one for example: http://www.archive.org/details/localh2008-05-18.cabbage.AKGck93.flac24

Thanks Sunday Driver, those mics sound pretty good, and mini-XLR would be great for stealthing.  +T.  I've already bought a pair of km184 mics though, just waiting for them to arrive next week hopefully. 

[su6oxone]

and they sound great.  like a little AKG

I'm thinking maybe at some point I will get some Audix m1280s to replace my 853s as my ultrastealth taping gear.  A little AKG would be great to have 

[Nick's Picks]

indeed.
although for ultra, ultra, I am on the dpa 4060 team.  Though, I think you'd pull better (consistantly) recordings w/the audix micro as you can set them up in a nice stereo pattern and conceal it easily.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

You'll be surprised what you can do with those km184s. 

Put together a low profile mount using the standard clips and a schoeps shock mount, like this http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,60750.msg806452.html#msg806452

Put that configuration on a little bogen stand and you'll have a fob rig that throws a shadow barely larger than actives on a kwon bar.  You can run head height in spots where a bigger set up would get you kicked back to the section.  With a short stem you can hand hold that with very little effort.

[su6oxone]

You'll be surprised what you can do with those km184s. 

Put together a low profile mount using the standard clips and a schoeps shock mount, like this http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,60750.msg806452.html#msg806452

Put that configuration on a little bogen stand and you'll have a fob rig that throws a shadow barely larger than actives on a kwon bar.  You can run head height in spots where a bigger set up would get you kicked back to the section.  With a short stem you can hand hold that with very little effort.

Sweet!  Except that the pics are no longer there... or were you referring to the pic with double fist pumping dude in the background?  What you're describing sounds pretty cool, would love to see it what it looks like.  +T.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Yeah, the expired pictures showed it much better from several angles but that one with the double fisted giant punch shows the resulting configuration in action.

PM the original poster of that thread and see if he still has the image files.  Those pictures belong in the TS archive.  It really is a brilliant solution.  I tried a bunch of different ways to mount the 184s when I had them and I never figured out anything as small and clean as that. 

[su6oxone]

It really is a brilliant solution.  I tried a bunch of different ways to mount the 184s when I had them and I never figured out anything as small and clean as that. 

It is pretty cool.  I will be trying to make that for sure.  Just have to ask how to make that middle "attachment piece... "