Topic: DPA-406X Mics

[NewTaper]

I am looking into buying a set of the DPA-Microphones and I see
several threads touting one or the other.

I would like to see which is the more popular mic.
I would also like just a few comments as to why
you picked the mic set you have.

Thanks - NT

[Petrus]

4060 for lowest self noise levels. I record mostly ambience, nature and voice (lavalier), so high SPLs are not needed. And even 4060 can take fairly high levels.

[Arni99]

DPA 4061: I´m taping amplified rock from smalls club to big arenas.

It´s also suited for jazz/rock/blues. I wanted to be on the safe side at really loud amplified shows.
Thats why I chose 4061s.
I had 4060s before, which are also great mics but the high signal at extremely loud shows overloaded my irivers analog input => brickwalling.
With 4061 I have 10db less signal which is perfect for my needs and the iriver h120.

DPA 4063 would also be interesting as its between 4060 and 4061 concerning SPL-handling AND needs plugin-power only (3V minimum).

4060, 61, 62 need at least 5V.

I taped THE POLICE with 4060+bbox+iriver => NO PROBLEM close to the soundboard in a big indoor arena ...10.000 people, but closer to the stacks my iriver would have brickwalled as only +4db gain headroom where left .


I guess with 4060ies you can tape anything IF you place yourself at safe distance from the stacks .

[NewTaper]

DPA 4061: I´m taping amplified rock from smalls club to big arenas.

It´s also suited for jazz/rock/blues. I wanted to be on the safe side at really loud amplified shows.
Thats why I chose 4061s.
I had 4060s before, which are also great mics but the high signal at extremely loud shows overloaded my irivers analog input => brickwalling.With 4061 I have 10db less signal which is perfect for my needs and the iriver h120.

DPA 4063 would also be interesting as its between 4060 and 4061 concerning sensitivity AND needs plugin-power only (3V minimum).

4060, 61, 62 need at least 5V.

I taped THE POLICE with 4060+bbox+iriver => NO PROBLEM close to the soundboard in a big indoor arena ...10.000 people, but closer to the stacks my iriver would have brickwalled as only +4db gain headroom where left .


I guess with 4060ies you can tape anything IF you place yourself at safe distance from the stacks .

Do you think if a pre-amp was used between the DPA-4060 mics and the i-river h120this would still be a problem ?

Thanks - NT

[Gutbucket]

^^^^
Actually what is needed in that case an attenuator, which reduces the signal level rather than boosting it (which is a direct opposite to the traditional roll of a preamplifier).  The 4060s can probably handle the high sound levels Arni99 experiences just fine, but because they are more sensitive than the 4061s they output a stronger signal.  A sensitive mic and strong output level are good because there is less chance of interference and noise problems and because there is less amplification needed for recording quieter things. As long as the recorder's input can handle the higher signal level present for very loud sounds (up to the limit of the microphone) that's not a problem.  Some recorders can handle higher input levels than others.  Some offer higher level line-in inputs as well as lower level mic-inputs.  For Arni99, his Iriver can't handle the high level input and distorts but can handle the lower output of the 4061s so that mic is a good fit for his use.  He could also use an attenuator between the mics and the recorder to reduce the level before it reaches the Iriver.  Sometimes attenuation switches are included in the battery box or preamp that is used to power the microphones.  Sometimes attenuation takes the form of some resistors in an adapter cable, sometimes there is an input attenuation switch (often called a pad) on the recorder itself.

If your recorder is capable of accepting the higher input level or if you record very quiet things then the 4060 has better specifications. The 4061 was designed so that it's output level better matches most body-worn wireless transmitters since many of those are designed to work at lower levels and could have the same problem that Arni99 describes.  Lots of stage productions choose 4061's for that very reason and so there are usually more of them available used.  Both are very good omnis and can make great recordings.

The 4063 is interesting because it might be able to be powered directly by the plug-in-power available on many small recorders where the 4060 and 4061 need a battery box (or preamp) to provide sufficient power, but 4063s are not common around here and I don't know if that has been confirmed to work or not.

CoreSound HEBs are rewired with different connectors, include a special battery box and are supposedly specially matched.  I've never used those, but the four 4060s I have are all very close in level and frequency.

Lots of information and specifications available at the DPA site.

[NewTaper]

^^^^
Actually what is needed in that case an attenuator, which reduces the signal level rather than boosting it (which is a direct opposite to the traditional roll of a preamplifier).  The 4060s can probably handle the high sound levels Arni99 experiences just fine, but because they are more sensitive than the 4061s they output a stronger signal.  A sensitive mic and strong output level are good because there is less chance of interference and noise problems and because there is less amplification needed for recording quieter things. As long as the recorder's input can handle the higher signal level present for very loud sounds (up to the limit of the microphone) that's not a problem.  Some recorders can handle higher input levels than others.  Some offer higher level line-in inputs as well as lower level mic-inputs.  For Arni99, his Iriver can't handle the high level input and distorts but can handle the lower output of the 4061s so that mic is a good fit for his use.  He could also use an attenuator between the mics and the recorder to reduce the level before it reaches the Iriver.  Sometimes attenuation switches are included in the battery box or preamp that is used to power the microphones.  Sometimes attenuation takes the form of some resistors in an adapter cable, sometimes there is an input attenuation switch (often called a pad) on the recorder itself.

If your recorder is capable of accepting the higher input level or if you record very quiet things then the 4060 has better specifications. The 4061 was designed so that it's output level better matches most body-worn wireless transmitters since many of those are designed to work at lower levels and could have the same problem that Arni99 describes.  Lots of stage productions choose 4061's for that very reason and so there are usually more of them available used.  Both are very good omnis and can make great recordings.

The 4063 is interesting because it might be able to be powered directly by the plug-in-power available on many small recorders where the 4060 and 4061 need a battery box (or preamp) to provide sufficient power, but 4063s are not common around here and I don't know if that has been confirmed to work or not.

CoreSound HEBs are rewired with different connectors, include a special battery box and are supposedly specially matched.  I've never used those, but the four 4060s I have are all very close in level and frequency.

Lots of information and specifications available at the DPA site.

Fantastic information and a superb read. Thank You.

Does anyone here know or have experience on a DPA-4060 and R-09HR set up ?
Would that recorders input & the DPA-4060 Mics be able to handle a loud rock concert recorded up close ?
Would a good pre-amp make a difference in sound quality ?

Thanks again - NT

[Gutbucket]

4060s work great into the older R-09 which can accept a quite strong line-input level.  I suspect they'd work just as well into the new HR and you might check in new R-09HR threads for actual users.

Into the R-09, you need to power the mics with either a battery box or preamp.  The preamp section built into the new HR is reportedly quieter than the older R-09 version so an external preamp is probably less necessary but still may be a good idea for recording quiet things.  For loud music a battery box would be probably be all you need.

The DPA MMA6000 is a great preamp that was designed for these mics.  It has DPA microdot inputs that match the ones that come on the mics.  I've used one for years and typically add around 10dB of gain with it into the R-09, never more than 20dB and only ran it at 0db (which is mic power only, no amplification) a couple of times for super loud bass heavy music.  I don't record much of that.

I recently bought a couple tiny CA-Ugly preamps from Church Audio that work well too, based his larger 9100 model which many others here also use and seem to like.  Most people using non-DPA battery boxes and preamps re-terminate the mic cable with a more standard connector like a mini phone jack or a mini-XLR and Chris Church can build the amps with different connectors including the microdots if you send them to him.  I made an adapter cable so I didn't have to alter my mic cables and can use either preamp.  Eternal preamps all work a little differently and have different features, options and controls.

[run_run_run]

Don't know enough to tell you which one I life best, but I love the sound. Maybe you could use one of those -10 m-audio pads into a iriver?

[blastroknow]

I run my CS-HEB DPA-4060s into an iriver h120 line-in for loud close up rock shows no problem.  The safety gain control within Rockbox works great and I go into a loud show at about +7 gain and it usually loses 2-3 db mostly due to loud clapping next to me.

4060s probably would give you more flexibility in a variety of SPL recording situations.

[Arni99]

I run my CS-HEB DPA-4060s into an iriver h120 line-in for loud close up rock shows no problem.  The safety gain control within Rockbox works great and I go into a loud show at about +7 gain and it usually loses 2-3 db mostly due to loud clapping next to me.

4060s probably would give you more flexibility in a variety of SPL recording situations.

My iriver H120 safety-clip-gain showed -4 after the brickwalled show with the 4060ies.
Now with the 4061 I never had similar problems.
I used earplugs at that particular show which I taped for a buddy of mine....nevertheless my whole body felt strange during this concert  .

[run_run_run]

whats the deal with the 4062?

[Gutbucket]

^^^
Least sensitive mic of the family.

Some comparison specs from the DPA link posted above:

4060-
Power supply: Min. 5 V - max 50 V through DPA adapter
Equivalent noise level A-weighted: Typ. 23 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 26 dB(A))
Equiv. noise level ITU-R BS.468-4: Typ. 35 dB (max. 38 dB)
Total harmonic distortion (THD): <1% THD up to 123 dB SPL peak
Max. SPL, peak before clipping: 134 dB
Dynamic Range: Typ. 100 dB
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL): 71 dB(A)
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB: 20 mV/Pa; -34 dB re. 1 V/Pa

4061-
Power supply: Min. 5 V - max 50 V through DPA adapter
Equivalent noise level A-weighted: Typ. 26 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 28 dB(A))
Equiv. noise level ITU-R BS.468-4: Typ. 38 dB (max. 40 dB)
Total harmonic distortion (THD): <1% THD up to 123 dB SPL peak
Max. SPL, peak before clipping: 144 dB
Dynamic Range: Typ. 97 dB
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL): 68 dB(A)
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB: 6 mV/Pa; -44.5 dB re. 1 V/Pa

4062-
Power supply: Min. 5 V - max 50 V through DPA adapter
Equivalent noise level A-weighted: Typ. 33 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 37 dB(A))
Equiv. noise level ITU-R BS.468-4: Typ. 45 dB (max. 49 dB)
Total harmonic distortion (THD): <1% THD up to 123 dB SPL peak
Max. SPL, peak before clipping: 154 dB
Dynamic Range: Typ. 90 dB
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL): 61 dB(A)
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB: 1 mV/Pa; -60 dB re. 1 V/Pa

4063-
Power supply: Min. 3 V - max 50 V through DPA adapter
Equivalent noise level A-weighted: Typ. 26 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 28 dB(A))
Equiv. noise level ITU-R BS.468-4: Typ. 38 dB (max. 40 dB)
Total harmonic distortion (THD): <1% THD up to 123 dB SPL peak; <1% THD up to 120 dB SPL RMS sine
Max. SPL, peak before clipping: 138 dB
Dynamic Range: Typ. 97 dB
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL): 68 dB
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB: 6 mV/Pa; 44.5 dB re. 1 V/Pa

DPA 4060 has an impressive sensitivity of 20 mV/Pa. The noise floor of the DPA 4060 is 23 dB(A) re. 20 µPa and and if powered correctly, the microphone will be able to handle sound pressure levels up to 134 dB SPL before clipping occurs.

DPA 4061 is acoustically identical with the award winning DPA 4060, but the sensitivity is adjusted to 6 mV/Pa to match some of the more sensitive transmitters on the market. The noise floor of the DPA 4061 is 26 dB(A) re. 20 µPa and if powered correctly the microphone will be able to handle sound pressure levels up to 144 dB SPL before clipping occurs.

DPA 4062 is acoustically identical with the award winning DPA 4060, but the sensitivity is adjusted to 1 mV/Pa to match some of the more sensitive transmitters on the market. The noise floor of the DPA 4062 is 33 dB(A) re. 20 µPa and if powered correctly the microphone will be able to handle sound pressure levels up to 154 dB SPL before clipping occurs.

DPA 4063 is acoustically identical with the DPA 4061, but the FET preamp in the input stage is designed for working with the lower supply voltage, matching systems delivering down to 3 V power supply. The noise floor of the DPA 4063 is 26 dB(A) re. 20 µPa and it is able to handle sound pressure levels up to 138 dB SPL peak before clipping occurs.

[Arni99]

Here a sample(mp3) how DPA 4061 +12V battery box + iriver H120 rockboxed sound at a funk song:
http://www.file-upload.net/download-1090463/02-wooten_compressed_normalized02.mp3.html

Small club (max. 300 people) center 5-10m from l+r hanging stacks.

[sml42]

I own both a pair of dpa4060 and a pair of dpa4061.

Depends on the show as to which I choose to run. For acoustic / quiet shows - 4060 all the way. Electric / loud - 4061.

Yes, I realise you quite possibly won't know what to expect until you're in the venue. Yes, I realise if you're running these mics you're probably running stealth, and changing 4060 <---> 4061 in the field is probably a non-option. Part of the fun of the game though - try to second guess the gig before you get there

The 4060 is the most sensitive of the dpa miniatures. It is surprisingly tolerant of high SPL. I've had my 4060s self-distort only a handful of times (always under *serious* bass). (this was before I bought my 4061s, when the 4060s were my only choice)

I love having the choice. Can't wait for dpa to release their miniature cards, then I'll have even more choice

[sml42]

sorry, just to clarify

I voted for 4060s, on the basis those will probably cover 90% of all your requirements. For the few times you are in high SPL situations, it is nice to be able to choose between these and 4061s...

[sml42]

Oh yes. And fuck coresound and the excuse they call "customer service". DPA all the way.

[illconditioned]

sorry, just to clarify

I voted for 4060s, on the basis those will probably cover 90% of all your requirements. For the few times you are in high SPL situations, it is nice to be able to choose between these and 4061s...

Just run the 4060's into something that has lots of headroom, like the Edirol R09.  This (plus a battery box) is an excellent combination - really hot mics for quiet shows, so you don't need a preamp at all.

I would have stopped here, except that I really don't like the DPA sound.  Super realistic and detailed, but It always seemed a bit "harsh" to me.  I much prefer Nevaton MKE400 or Countryman B3.  Those have a much more pleasant sound to me.

  Richard

[Dede2002]

sorry, just to clarify

I voted for 4060s, on the basis those will probably cover 90% of all your requirements. For the few times you are in high SPL situations, it is nice to be able to choose between these and 4061s...

Just run the 4060's into something that has lots of headroom, like the Edirol R09.  This (plus a battery box) is an excellent combination - really hot mics for quiet shows, so you don't need a preamp at all.

I would have stopped here, except that I really don't like the DPA sound.  Super realistic and detailed, but It always seemed a bit "harsh" to me.  I much prefer Nevaton MKE400 or Countryman B3.  Those have a much more pleasant sound to me.

  Richard

OK, I have to ask.
Can I run a Countryman B3 pair modified with a single mini plug > 9V bb > R-09HR?
Thanks in advance 

[jmz93]

I'm currently using 4061's into the Church Audio ST9100 preamp, then into the line in on my Edirol R-09HR.  I recorded some acoustic jazz up close with the preamp turned up full and the R9HR set to level 52/80, apparently this is close to unity gain. 

I recorded a loud Steely Dan tribute band last night, again really close, with the preamp gain at about 60%, R9HR input set the same as before.  I recorded with the preamp's bass filter engaged last night, but without that for the acoustic jazz.

[illconditioned]

sorry, just to clarify

I voted for 4060s, on the basis those will probably cover 90% of all your requirements. For the few times you are in high SPL situations, it is nice to be able to choose between these and 4061s...

Just run the 4060's into something that has lots of headroom, like the Edirol R09.  This (plus a battery box) is an excellent combination - really hot mics for quiet shows, so you don't need a preamp at all.

I would have stopped here, except that I really don't like the DPA sound.  Super realistic and detailed, but It always seemed a bit "harsh" to me.  I much prefer Nevaton MKE400 or Countryman B3.  Those have a much more pleasant sound to me.

  Richard

OK, I have to ask.
Can I run a Countryman B3 pair modified with a single mini plug > 9V bb > R-09HR?
Thanks in advance 

You can certainly run the B3 with a battery box.  You can either cut the XLR connector off, or buy a (sometimes cheaper) "pigtail" version of these mics.

I'm still experimenting with:
- two wire vs three wire power (they are by default two-wire to the XLR power module, at approx 9v, but I don't think they should be)
- powering directly from Edirol and/or Sony PCM D50 plug in power (this requires more testing)
* getting a matched pair

* I noticed some variation in the mics, particularly in the bass response.  I was able to get one pair hand-matched by Chris Countryman.  I've got a second pair pending matching.  If you buy the mics, buy conditional on testing the match.

 Richard

PS: Comments welcome on my B3 recordings.  I think they're excellent, but I'd like to hear what others think., eg., compared to some DPA and Sennheiser stuff I've put up.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I run the 4060's so I voted for those.

As others have said, I went with those so I can get better results with quieter music. I have NEVER had a single problem with the sound being too loud.

[javertim]

Does anyone know where I could buy a set of the DPA-4060s that terminate in a single 1/8" plug? I know that Core Sound offers a set like this, but I'm fairly certain that they are hardwired into the battery box.  I'm looking for a set that I could plug into my own preamp.

[live2496]

I have listened to quite a few samples from recordings made with the Core Sound HEB's and preamp.

I like the uncolored sound of the 4060 capsules. If you have a great sounding room they are the way to go. Really good eq curve and accurate reproduction of the low end too. Surprisingly, really good for capsules that small.

[NewTaper]

Just run the 4060's into something that has lots of headroom, like the Edirol R09.    Richard

I taped THE POLICE with 4060+bbox+iriver => NO PROBLEM close to the soundboard in a big indoor arena ...10.000 people, but closer to the stacks my iriver would have brickwalled as only +4db gain headroom where left. ARNI99

 I recorded some acoustic jazz up close with the preamp turned up full and the R9HR set to level 52/80, apparently this is close to unity gain.  JMZ93

What exactly is Gain / Unity Gain ?

I have seen this term a few times and I am not sure I fully understand it.
If someone could give a quick explaination or point me to a good resource on it.

Thanks - NT

[Church-Audio]

Just run the 4060's into something that has lots of headroom, like the Edirol R09.    Richard

I taped THE POLICE with 4060+bbox+iriver => NO PROBLEM close to the soundboard in a big indoor arena ...10.000 people, but closer to the stacks my iriver would have brickwalled as only +4db gain headroom where left. ARNI99

 I recorded some acoustic jazz up close with the preamp turned up full and the R9HR set to level 52/80, apparently this is close to unity gain.  JMZ93

What exactly is Gain / Unity Gain ?

I have seen this term a few times and I am not sure I fully understand it.
If someone could give a quick explaination or point me to a good resource on it.

Thanks - NT

When people talk about gain. They are talking about the amount of "boost" a single requires to reach a good level on a recorder. When we are talking about unity gain we are saying the the signal going in is the same as the signal going out of a device. So if you take a preamp and you plug a set of mics in you can adjust the levels on the preamp so they are the same as the signal coming straight from the mic it self. Unity = the same input level expressed in dB & the same output level expressed in dB or Decibels.

Unity gain
http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/glossary/t--UnityGain

Decibel 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel



Chris

[fourdegreeswarmer]

Does anyone know where I could buy a set of the DPA-4060s that terminate in a single 1/8" plug? I know that Core Sound offers a set like this, but I'm fairly certain that they are hardwired into the battery box.  I'm looking for a set that I could plug into my own preamp.

Actually Core Sound will do a set of 406Xs terminated in a single 1/8" - without the after market connectors used on the HEB sets - so you are free to plug it into anything you like. You'd just have to email Len and get a quote.

[NewTaper]

What exactly is Gain / Unity Gain ?

I have seen this term a few times and I am not sure I fully understand it.
If someone could give a quick explaination or point me to a good resource on it. - NewTaper

When people talk about gain. They are talking about the amount of "boost" a single requires to reach a good level on a recorder.
So if you take a preamp and you plug a set of mics in you can adjust the levels on the preamp so they are the same as the signal coming straight from the mic it self.
Unity = the same input level expressed in dB & the same output level expressed in dB or Decibels. Chris Church

I know this may be quite obvious and staring me in the face but how would I go about performing a test to determine the above ?
Is there a guide to follow or a tutorial anywhere that can help me do this test and determine where the Unity / Unity Gain is with my set up ?

Thanks - NT

[guitard]

I can't say I prefer them based on experience, because I don't own them yet - but I have heard some amazing tape pulls at loud shows from 4061s.  I've decided to get a set for use at shows when I can get a decent spot to record.  However, as I often end up in the cheap seats, I know I also need a set of cards, and that is my next mission: to decide on what my second set of mics will be.  I've got the new model Edirol on the way, so things are starting to come together for me.