Topic: Noob setup - what's my best bang-for-buck upgrade?

[Sarah]

I'm stealth taping, mainly at loud rock clubs with rock/folk/alt.country kind of stuff. Occasionally I'll do a quieter seated venue too. My current taping gear consists of an iRiver H140 (rockboxed of course), Sound Professionals cardioid mics (SP-CMC-19) and a mini battery box which I don't always use since I haven't noticed a lot of difference with it. I can't remember where I got it and there's no label on it so I can't say what kind it is... probably from Sound Professionals as well.

I generally come up with pretty clean recordings, but they have a bit of that bottom-of-the-well / distant / tinny thing going on. (Not terrible, but enough to want improvement.)  What's the best place to spend money for a good SQ improvement? I'm thinking a new mic but I'm not sure where the sweet spot is for pricing and where you hit diminishing returns. I'm also not sure what kind of mic would work best with the H140, or if I'm better off with omnidirectional or cardioid. I tend to like to stand as close to the stage as possible since my priorities are usually for show enjoyment over show taping (and also the not-very-tall thing, I can't see over anyone if I'm further back). I've also wondered if I'd be better off with a single mic since I don't do a left/right stereo placement anyway.

If you think that tinny sound is more from methodology / placement I'd love to hear that too. I think I often set the gain too low, I don't tape often enough to really nail it down for each venue I go to so I am usually conservative to avoid clipping.

I'd love to keep any expenditures under $150 but could go higher if it would make a real improvement.

[yltfan]

Would these work?
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,126296.0.html

I like my AT853s with the Church Audio 9100 preamp. Lots of folks around here will recommend Church Audio mics.

Lastly, it's best to keep your stealthy techniques stealth.

[Sarah]

Edit: you edited while I was replying....

Do you have a link to the AT853s? I googled but I'm not sure I'm finding the right thing...

[yltfan]

They are Audio Technica 853, pretty popular, Sound Pro sells them along with lots of accessories. But you should be able to find some used ones easily. Looks like there are some still for sale here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,124112.0.html

But I have not used the SP-CMC-19, I would look for advice from someone more familiar with those in terms of what is a good upgrade.

[Sarah]

In lieu of other advice I went ahead and ordered AT853... I found a sound sample and they do sound like they would be a good improvement for me. Thanks for your help.

[Ziggz]

CMC-19s were the first mics I owned, and yes, I know what you mean about the "tinny" sound. The 853's will be a huge upgrade   

[Belexes]

I love my 853's and have all 4 capsules.  Prior I was a SP-CMC-8 user (AT943) and wasn't completely satisfied.  If you end up taping a lot of quiet music, consider the CA-9100 pre.

[Ziggz]

Which 943 caps didn't you like? I'm slightly disappointed with my cards, they seem a little thin on the bottom end. Omnis have given good results. Not sure about the hypers as I haven't really done much with them, plus I had the battery box settings all wrong with the new switches so I'm not sure what they're capable of.

[su6oxone]

In lieu of other advice I went ahead and ordered AT853... I found a sound sample and they do sound like they would be a good improvement for me. Thanks for your help.

I would have recommended the Church Audio CA-11 cardioid mics, since they are similar in quality to the AT853 but more in line with your stated budget, but I think you'll like the AT853 as well.  I used them for awhile and got some good recordings with them. 

[yltfan]

Let me know what you think. Did you buy a new pair? You got everything you need to run them?

[Sarah]

I bought new... though I decided to go for a mono mic because it's half the price and the stealth method I've been using doesn't let me separate the mics anyway. I'm going to try recording a show with it and see what I think, I've got 30 days to exchange/refund... it's also small enough to hide for anything short of a body cavity search 

I have the recorder and battery box already, so I think I have everything I need... unless the AT853s have some other requirements I don't know about (hope not).

[su6oxone]

I bought new... though I decided to go for a mono mic because it's half the price and the stealth method I've been using doesn't let me separate the mics anyway. I'm going to try recording a show with it and see what I think, I've got 30 days to exchange/refund... it's also small enough to hide for anything short of a body cavity search 

I have the recorder and battery box already, so I think I have everything I need... unless the AT853s have some other requirements I don't know about (hope not).

You should be all set.  But I really think that taping with only one mic is a terrible idea... even taping with two mics with little separation gives you some stereo image but a one mic mono recording isn't worth listening to IMHO.  You should consider the Church CA-11 mics, they probably cost the same for a pair as one AT853 mic does.  Drop Chris Church an email (you can't PM until you hit 50 posts) and see what he can do for you.  You can fit the CA-11 in a pair of croakies, which might be a reasonable idea given that you don't want to wear a hat and you probably have hair to cover the croakies. 

[Sarah]

Well, as I said - I will see how it sounds, and I can exchange it for something better if I hate it. Taking baby steps till I get something I'm happy with for minimum expenditure. Mostly I am recording these for myself (though I do share if anyone wants them) and it's just local bands in crummy little clubs... I'm not expecting pro quality audio.

I think I might look even more peculiar with those fat croakies on my glasses than I would in a hat...    Don't have the right sort of hairstyle to cover them.

[Belexes]

Which 943 caps didn't you like? I'm slightly disappointed with my cards, they seem a little thin on the bottom end.

The cards. My recordings needed a lot of EQ in post.

[fmaderjr]

You should be all set.  But I really think that taping with only one mic is a terrible idea... even taping with two mics with little separation gives you some stereo image but a one mic mono recording isn't worth listening to IMHO.  You should consider the Church CA-11 mics, they probably cost the same for a pair as one AT853 mic does. 

I agree 100%. With an H140, battery box, and CA-11's you can make great sounding recordings of loud shows. For acoustic stuff an ST-9100 pre would be a great addition (it's best not to turn the H140's gain above 24 because then you get digital gain and more added noise).   

If you get the CA-11's I would pay the additional $40 or so and get both card & omni caps (unless you go the croakie route). You'll probably use the cards most often but its great to have omni's when closeup (as you like to be) at a great sounding venue in cases where there is minimal crowd chatter going on behind you (which cards would be better at reducing). Having CA-11's with both sets of caps gives you a lot of flexibility for a bargain price.