Topic: Edirol R-09 mic replacement

[Toki]

Hi,
I couldn't figure out where to post this.
The standard mics in Edirol R-09 (not HR, the old one) seems to be easily replaceable (on the noob's look) with something that fits the size but performs better.
Can anyone please share their experience if they have successfully replaced the original mics with some other ones? Which capsules will do, and what other modifications to the internals of the unit should be made? A "how-to" guide would be an ultimate achievement
Sorry if I've missed this discussed somewhere.
I know that such mod is available via Church Audio but the shipping will be too expensive for me and it will take too long.
Thanks for looking!

[dorrcoq]

Chris Church offers, or at least offered, this service.

[Toki]

Chris Church offers, or at least offered, this service.

Thanks, but
1) I know that - read my post, and
2) I'm not looking for a service but would like to do it myself (if it's possible of course).

[guitard]

Chris Church offers, or at least offered, this service.

Thanks, but
1) I know that - read my post, and
2) I'm not looking for a service but would like to do it myself (if it's possible of course).

Quite obviously, he did read your post.  And he said Chris Church offers the service - so the advice would be to ask Chris Church how to do it.

Word to the wise:  snarky responses won't get you much help around here.

[Toki]

Sorry if I was sounding mean. I haven't noticed an advice in that post (just a rephrased quote from my message) - maybe my bad english prevents me from clear understanding, sorry again for that.  Obviously I can address my question straight to Chris Church, but I wanted to initiate a more open discussion.
Would be extremely grateful if someone share his own experience on the topic here.

[fmaderjr]

I'd be surprised if anyone besides Chris Church has done this. Nobody has previously posted anything about doing so (I'd have remembered if they did) and Chris has said it was rather difficult to figure out how to get the mics to operate optimally on the low (2.5 volt) plug in power provided by the R-09. I do remember Chris saying it can be done with AT853 caps as well as his CA-11 caps.

Chris is very helpful and would probably be happy to give you a bit of advice.

[Toki]

I'd be surprised if anyone besides Chris Church has done this. Nobody has previously posted anything about doing so (I'd have remembered if they did) and Chris has said it was rather difficult to figure out how to get the mics to operate optimally on the low (2.5 volt) plug in power provided by the R-09. I do remember Chris saying it can be done with AT853 caps as well as his CA-11 caps.

Chris is very helpful and would probably be happy to give you a bit of advice.

Thank you very much for the valuable info!
That's exactly what I wanted to know - now I see that it's not a simple thing to do.
I hope Chris will notice this topic and will be so kind to offer some more info about this.

Edit: I've found this topic, it answers most of my questions:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=98290.0
Maybe it should be included in R-09 FAQ?

[Giant_Rick]

I know that caps can be replaced easily on a Zoom H2; perhaps you can do on your R09.. if you want to do it yourself you should consider the Panasonic WM61 caps -- they are really good, and the frequencies go from 20 to 20K Hertz.

[darktrain]

I know that caps can be replaced easily on a Zoom H2; perhaps you can do on your R09.. if you want to do it yourself you should consider the Panasonic WM61 caps -- they are really good, and the frequencies go from 20 to 20K Hertz.

I would say if you are going to go through the effort, put a good cap in, the panasonic are ok but not really worth switching out the ones that are already in there

[stevetoney]

This doesn't really address your question, but given the effort and potential damage you might do to your R-09 in taking it apart without any experience, is it worth doing this as opposed to simply buying some HQ external mics and a small battery box?  Otherwise, I don't have any knowledge or experience to be able to add to what others have posted.

[Giant_Rick]

I know that caps can be replaced easily on a Zoom H2; perhaps you can do on your R09.. if you want to do it yourself you should consider the Panasonic WM61 caps -- they are really good, and the frequencies go from 20 to 20K Hertz.

I would say if you are going to go through the effort, put a good cap in, the panasonic are ok but not really worth switching out the ones that are already in there

Really? I have some WM61 but I don't have  R09 so i can't compare, but I trust you.

[Toki]

This doesn't really address your question, but given the effort and potential damage you might do to your R-09 in taking it apart without any experience, is it worth doing this as opposed to simply buying some HQ external mics and a small battery box?  Otherwise, I don't have any knowledge or experience to be able to add to what others have posted.

Yes, external mic is a better option for sure, and I already have one, but I wanted to turn my R-09 into something "stand-alone", capturing music at good resolution in situations where I cannot use a separate mic.
It is now more or less clear to me that the risk of screwing the things up is too high for a noob like me, and it's not really worth trying to do it myself. I should really consider Chris Church mod when I'll have enough money for that.
P.S. Btw taking R-09 apart is a really easy task after reading invaluable guysonic's instructions posted on this forum. I did it in order to prevent problems with jack input, and now I would recommend anyone who can solder to do it before it breaks - sooner or later.

[stevetoney]

This doesn't really address your question, but given the effort and potential damage you might do to your R-09 in taking it apart without any experience, is it worth doing this as opposed to simply buying some HQ external mics and a small battery box?  Otherwise, I don't have any knowledge or experience to be able to add to what others have posted.

Yes, external mic is a better option for sure, and I already have one, but I wanted to turn my R-09 into something "stand-alone", capturing music at good resolution in situations where I cannot use a separate mic.
It is now more or less clear to me that the risk of screwing the things up is too high for a noob like me, and it's not really worth trying to do it myself. I should really consider Chris Church mod when I'll have enough money for that.
P.S. Btw taking R-09 apart is a really easy task after reading invaluable guysonic's instructions posted on this forum. I did it in order to prevent problems with jack input, and now I would recommend anyone who can solder to do it before it breaks - sooner or later.

I wish the MT2496 was easy to take apart, although I'm not sure whether it is or not.  Would love to be able to replace the internal battery myself without having to send the darn thing in for replacement.

[fmaderjr]

I wish the MT2496 was easy to take apart, although I'm not sure whether it is or not.  Would love to be able to replace the internal battery myself without having to send the darn thing in for replacement.

Check this out:
http://www.greendog.co.uk/microtrack/howto.php

Probably wouldn't be easy for me, though.

[stevetoney]

I wish the MT2496 was easy to take apart, although I'm not sure whether it is or not.  Would love to be able to replace the internal battery myself without having to send the darn thing in for replacement.

Check this out:
http://www.greendog.co.uk/microtrack/howto.php

Probably wouldn't be easy for me, though.

Thanks alot for this link.  I'm gonna give it a shot.  What've I got to lose?  My MT2496 holds a charge now for I think about 3 minutes.

[fmaderjr]

It is now more or less clear to me that the risk of screwing the things up is too high for a noob like me, and it's not really worth trying to do it myself. I should really consider Chris Church mod when I'll have enough money for that.

I highly recommend the Micsketeer for anything moderately loud up to ear cushingly loud. I sounds incredible. For the quieter stuff, the recorder's less than stellar preamp requires external mics and and external pre for best results.

[acidjack]

I think the bigger question is the overall utility of this mod, which depends on the use intended.

If the intent is to "stealth" or record performances with the recorder concealed (say, in a shirt pocket), it is worth pointing out that the quality of the recording will likely be significantly worse than a comparable recording made with the same mics mounted higher up and aimed more properly (I'm not intimately familiar with the R-09's mics since I wouldn't use them for anything other than interviews, but I believe they point out from the "top" of the unit, no?).  People can debate for hours whether mounting mics on your chest or collar is as good as mounting on your head.  I suppose my answer would be, sure, if you're 7' tall.  And actually, even then, I'd still want the mics on my head....

If you're going to put the thing on a stand or some other type of boom, then it seems like a wise one-box option.  Given that the price is, I believe, also comparable, I'd think CA-11>battery box>R-09 is a smarter move than changing out the mics.  Just my $0.02

[fmaderjr]

You'll note that I didn't say a word about stealth. I've used it mainly as a backup recorder for open taping and even as a main recorder for my friend's bar band. I wouldn't dream of stealthing with it when I have much better options (hat mounted CA-14's, etc.).

I assumed we were all in agreement it is never a good idea to stealth with any recorder's built in mics, no matter how good, unless there were no other options.

Given that the price is, I believe, also comparable, I'd think CA-11>battery box>R-09 is a smarter move than changing out the mics.  Just my $0.02

I agree 100% for someone on a limited budget. I just think it's great to have in addition to an external mic rig for the times when you want to be able to set up quick for open taping with a minimum of hassle. 

[acidjack]

You'll note that I didn't say a word about stealth. I've used it mainly as a backup recorder for open taping and even as a main recorder for my friend's bar band. I wouldn't dream of stealthing with it when I have much better options (hat mounted CA-14's, etc.).

I assumed we were all in agreement it is never a good idea to stealth with any recorder's built in mics, no matter how good, unless there were no other options.

Given that the price is, I believe, also comparable, I'd think CA-11>battery box>R-09 is a smarter move than changing out the mics.  Just my $0.02

I agree 100% for someone on a limited budget. I just think it's great to have in addition to an external mic rig for the times when you want to be able to set up quick for open taping with a minimum of hassle.

We are in total agreement, I think - as I said, all depends on the use intended.  Micsketeer seems like a useful mod if the goal is simply to have better mics in the R-09, and I agree that for open taping (or interviews) where you could optimally position the machine, it should work fine. As you say, if you are doing any kind of recording where you cannot optimally position the device openly, internal mics, whether upgraded or not, are suboptimal.

[fmaderjr]

Agreed!

It does sound great when internal mics are called for. The original mics with the R-09 are useless for music recording. They sound awful.