Topic: NAK CM300 what is a fair price?

[creatured]

I found a guy who has a set of 3 NAK CM300's with 3CP-1 and 3 CP-2 HEADS for sale along with a variety of other mics too. My question is, he wants me to make him an offer and I'm not sure what to offer. He says the are in perfect working order with 2 different sets of caps and have only been used in the studio.  I wonder if he is on TS?
  Any help is appreciated.
 Also, I have a Sony D6C and a Edirol R1. Will the NAK's work with either of these decks and if not, what do I need?
  Thanks, Rick

[Patrick]

Last time I checked, the 3pack was going for around $300 with all the accessories.  Be sure to ask him if batteries are included, because those things can cost upwards of $7 a piece.

[acidjack]

$300 sounds reasonable for good condition.

You can run naks direct into the D6C or R1 on battery power no problem - you just need an adapter to go from dual XLR>stereo mini.  Folks will probably tell you that you could do better with an outboard preamp as well.  I used to run them both Nak300>D8 and Nak300>Zefiro InBox (an outboard A/D converter)>D8.   I sounded maybe a little better with the Zefiro, but honestly, I'd give it a shot running in direct and then decide for yourself.  Since neither of your machines has a digital input, an outboard ADC makes no sense for you, and preamp-wise, you could use something simple like a Church Audio CA9100.  Supposedly the R-1 has kind of nasty/noisy internal pre, so maybe that would be worth it for you down the line.  But like I said, just grab the mics first, then try it out.  The Naks have a very pleasant sound IMO.

[SmokinJoe]

Make sure the insides are clean... if someone left an old battery in there and it corroded, you have a mess.  I've run my Naks right into my R09 and it works, but Naks have a low output, so you have to crank the gain all the way and then it gets some hiss.  It works, but it's not ideal.  Using a respectable XLR size preamp between the Naks and the recorder is a big improvement.

Chris Church doesn't recommend a 9100 preamp behind the full body Naks.  The Naks have impedance transformers which act like a dead short across the Plug-in-power circuit of the Church preamp (or probably any similar small preamp).  That's rough on the preamp and may cause early failure.  You might get away with it, and you might not.

[creatured]

Thanks guys.
After writing the message above, I did remember having several recordings with the NAKs 300's into a D6(Lampinski recordings for one).

 I did just buy a set of CA11 mics and the CA9000 pre amp, but sounds like the  CA9000 might not be ideal with the NAKS.

 I did find the thread on TS about NAKS and using a preamp. I guess an XLR down the line would be ideal.

[kirk97132]

  $300 sounds reasonable for good condition.

You can run naks direct into the D6C ....Since neither of your machines has a digital input, an outboard ADC makes no sense for you

Well it would be the first time I ever seen a cassette deck with digital input

[Roger Gustavsson]

I would recommend bypassing the output transformers. They lowers the output by 10-14dB and degrades the signal-to-noise by 5-8dB. Without the transformers the output will be single ended (unbalanced).

Roger

[ts]

I would recommend bypassing the output transformers. They lowers the output by 10-14dB and degrades the signal-to-noise by 5-8dB. Without the transformers the output will be single ended (unbalanced).

Roger

What about the 700's? Same thing. I'm trying to have a battery box made to power my modded/chopped 700's. Just like the old days. Any tips would be appreciated. pin assignments. Thanks.

[Roger Gustavsson]

have no experience of the CM-700. Just as in the case of the CM-300 without balancing transformers, I would avoid running them with long cables. Without the transformers the output impedance is rather high. A Schoeps-like balanced/differential output could be useful, it can use phantom power (P12, P24 or P48) or run of an internal battery. The tiny Mitey Mike 3B board could be an alternative, a version with 14dB of gain is on the way. 

http://users.rcn.com/rhcamp/MM3B-BASIC-T&B.pdf
http://users.rcn.com/rhcamp/howhymm3B.htm

[dave570]

Yes, $300 is a good price for 3 Nak 300s if the insides are clean as stated here.  Ask the seller to take a pic of the insides if he can so you can see. The batteries are a little pricey but they work.  I've run 3 Nak 300s into a Nak MX-100 mixer into an Edirol R-09HR. I use 15 foot XLR-1/4 RCA cables and then RCA cables to mini for connection to the Edirol.  The gain on MX-100 compensates for the low output of the mics. I don't have to crank the Edirol past 30.  I'm no expert here, but this config sounded OK to my ears which I admit are damaged from decades of loud music. I've done the direct (Nak-Edirol) thing and had to crank up the recorder to a level that I didn't like.

[Roger Gustavsson]

Yes, the Nakamichi MX-100 suits the CM-300 very well. Just wish it was more compact! I have played with an idea of using a different enclosure, different connectors, rechargeables inside, power to the microphones, impedance balanced outputs etc.

Roger

[acidjack]

  $300 sounds reasonable for good condition.

You can run naks direct into the D6C ....Since neither of your machines has a digital input, an outboard ADC makes no sense for you

Well it would be the first time I ever seen a cassette deck with digital input

That was my original point.  It's self-evident that the D6 doesn't have a digital in.  Why Edirol and Sony didn't provide them for the R-09 series and M10s is kind of a mystery to me.

[Chuck]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136588.0

[dgale]

What is the deal with the separate power supply for the MX-100 mixer?  Is it really necessary to have both, which makes using the mixer doubly bulky, or can you power the mixer with an external battery?

[Roger Gustavsson]

You can put two 9V batteries inside the enclosure of the MX-100. They use to last for at least 10 hours. You can also use some rechargeable ones and use one of the existing DIN-connector for an external charger.

There are a lot of things you can change in the setup of 3x Nakamichi microphones and the MX-100. You can supply the microphones from the mixer if you like. You will need to bypass the output transformers inside the microphones, replace the 2-way jacks on the MX-100 with 3-way ones. The third wire supplies the microphones. You can also replace the heavy enclosure of the MX-100 with a lighter and smaller one (but that still can take a pair of batteries inside). As the MX-100 have no balanced inputs, use short cables to the microphones. If you have a recorder/soundcard with balanced inputs, you can modify the MX-100 to balanced outputs.




Roger

[flipp]

What is the deal with the separate power supply for the MX-100 mixer?  Is it really necessary to have both, which makes using the mixer doubly bulky, or can you power the mixer with an external battery?

As Roger said it is not really necessary to supply the MX100.

In the Nak scheme of things the PS100 wasn't designed to power only the MX100. Nakamichi had a series of "Black Boxes". All of them used the PS100 and all were the same bulky size. Some of the other BB could even be daisy-chained as long as the total power consumption didn't exceed a certain amount (sorry, don't recall what that amount is).
Other Black Boxes were:
SF100 - Subsonic Filter
LA100 - Line Amplifier
BA150 - Bridging Adapter
MB150 - Moving Coil Booster Adapter
EC100 - Electronic Crossover

[dgale]

Odd that they would make the MX100 with unbalanced inputs...why not XLR?  Seems like it would match the output of the mics.  Thanks for the info on the other Nak boxes, I had no idea. 

[flipp]

I can't answer why the inputs were unbalanced but Nakamichi's main intended purpose for the MX100 was as a relatively easy way for a Nak home deck owner to be able to record directly into the deck. AFAIK the only decks Nak made with XLR inputs were the MR-1 and MR-2 (not sure about the BX300 which is amazingly similar to the MR1). I also don't recall if Nak's "portable" decks - 250, 350 & 550 - had XLR inputs or not.

[darby]

I can't answer why the inputs were unbalanced but Nakamichi's main intended purpose for the MX100 was as a relatively easy way for a Nak home deck owner to be able to record directly into the deck. AFAIK the only decks Nak made with XLR inputs were the MR-1 and MR-2 (not sure about the BX300 which is amazingly similar to the MR1). I also don't recall if Nak's "portable" decks - 250, 350 & 550 - had XLR inputs or not.

no they did not

[dgale]

Nice stereo racks Darby 

[creatured]

OK, if anyone is interested, we have come to terms, but I havent gotten them yet. 225.00

 I havent seen them yet, but just the agreed price.  I'll be checking the battery area out. Any other hints?  Guy says perfect condition, but ya know how that can be, but I've had it go both ways, truthful and wishful owners.

  So, what recommendations for  a decent XLR pre amp do you guys have for the a D6c and/or Edirol R1. And for a future deck, I might get a Sony D5 or maybe a Marantz 430 or a 360(?)( yes, I like the old school ways), but I would also like to get a good modern deck too at some point when I'll have some extra money again.   Also, what about stands or a stealthy way to use the NAKS, if stealth is even possible. Maybe wrong q for this section.

Thanks for all help.

[Walstib62]

OK, if anyone is interested, we have come to terms, but I havent gotten them yet. 225.00

 I havent seen them yet, but just the agreed price.  I'll be checking the battery area out. Any other hints?  Guy says perfect condition, but ya know how that can be, but I've had it go both ways, truthful and wishful owners.

  So, what recommendations for  a decent XLR pre amp do you guys have for the a D6c and/or Edirol R1. And for a future deck, I might get a Sony D5 or maybe a Marantz 430 or a 360(?)( yes, I like the old school ways), but I would also like to get a good modern deck too at some point when I'll have some extra money again.   Also, what about stands or a stealthy way to use the NAKS, if stealth is even possible. Maybe wrong q for this section.

Thanks for all help.

Are those mics in your hat, or are you just glad to see me? ( Mae West voice) Def. not stealth mics

[weedwacker]

OK, if anyone is interested, we have come to terms, but I havent gotten them yet. 225.00

 I havent seen them yet, but just the agreed price.  I'll be checking the battery area out. Any other hints?  Guy says perfect condition, but ya know how that can be, but I've had it go both ways, truthful and wishful owners.

  So, what recommendations for  a decent XLR pre amp do you guys have for the a D6c and/or Edirol R1. And for a future deck, I might get a Sony D5 or maybe a Marantz 430 or a 360(?)( yes, I like the old school ways), but I would also like to get a good modern deck too at some point when I'll have some extra money again.   Also, what about stands or a stealthy way to use the NAKS, if stealth is even possible. Maybe wrong q for this section.

Thanks for all help.

Price sounds about right. I recently bought a set of 3 with everything for $210.00 but one of the mics needs to be repaired(loose wire on the battery connector needs resoldering). If you are going to stealth record you definately want to have them chopped down in size. Busman audio can do this mod since they've done it for other people I know who have the same mics. It is a standard mod and usually also involves changing the connectors to mini-xlr and either staying on battery power or modded to run on phantom power. I've heard of people modifying these mics to run on AA's and even CR123A batteries. If you are going to run phantom power one option is to have naiant build you a preamp to whatever specs you want and have the mics modded to the same. The other option is buy a recorder with builtin phantom power capability. I personally like the idea of keeping them running on batteries after modification but there are advantages to going either way with them.