Topic: AKG 414 Preamp alternatives to v2/v3 question

[jazzgtrl4]

My question is i have run my 414's( i have the B-ULS version) into my V3 and it sounds "ok", i thought this as well when i used to run my 480's into a V2. Didnt really dig the sound to much. What are you guys running your AKG's with specifically 414's...Sonosax? Neve? Oade?...just wondering.. thanks

[newplanet7]

I used to love the AKG sound with Apogee.

[ellaguru]

im using a sonosax sxm2 with taper approved results

[page]

im using a sonosax sxm2 with taper approved results

teddy's done that as well I think.

If not that, I was going to suggest an m148 or maybe an mp2 or aerco (those have some punch in the rump don't they?). I know someone (akg460 user) who uses the old transformer based sound devices preamps to warm it up. Maybe that's a thought like the mixpre or sd-mp2.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I have 414 XLS and really like them through the portico with silk mode.  Also they sound very nice straight into the 722. Its been a long time since the V3 was in regular rotation but what I remember is that I liked the neve and direct to 722 better.

If you want samples of either I'll dig something up.

[page]

I have 414 XLS and really like them through the portico with silk mode.  Also they sound very nice straight into the 722. Its been a long time since the V3 was in regular rotation but what I remember is that I liked the neve and direct to 722 better.

If you want samples of either I'll dig something up.

Happen to have a portico/7xx comp handy (of regardless of whether it's the akgs or otherwise, just curious about the differences)?

[F.O.Bean]

Man the 414s are badass. If I ever owned an LD, this would probably be it

[Brian Skalinder]

I wonder if the preamp isn't the primary issue, but perhaps something else.

What about the sound do you not like?
What mic configurations have you tried?

[yltfan]

I wonder if the preamp isn't the primary issue, but perhaps something else.

What about the sound do you not like?
What mic configurations have you tried?

I've been pretty happy running 414's > v3. ORTF Cards, DINa Hypers both worked well. When I ran the Subcards ORTF last week, it came out too muddy, but I blame the room and the far-from-sweetspot mic placement.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Happen to have a portico/7xx comp handy (of regardless of whether it's the akgs or otherwise, just curious about the differences)?

It's pretty easy for me to pull some samples of the various configurations if you would like to hear them but it's not going to be a controlled comparison. 

IMO: The 722 sounds a little bit loose down low compared to the Grace and Neve boxes.* There is something to the 722 sound that doesn't really seem to be as crystal transparent as the V3 but I wouldn't call the 722 sound veiled.  But whatever is going on with the lower end seems to balance really well against the HF bump of the 414XLS and neumann AK40/43 caps.

When the Neve is running with silk disabled, it sounds very close to the V3 across the samples I have made. Currently I'm running TLM170s when I can run open and 4023s when I need to be small. Both of those mics are more flat than the 414XLS and AKxx although the 170s are not purely flat. I think that both of those mics sound OK directly into the 722 but sound best though the V3 and Neve and the Neve especially with the silk mode on. I really love the silk mode of the Neve and run that all the time.  If I had to pick a preamp for the 414XLS (of those I have experienced over a few years) I believe Neve+silk, then SD722, then V3 or Neve without silk.

* there was some discussion in another thread that the V3 may roll off some of the lower bass. IIRC SD claimed that the 722 is flat all the way down to DC. So if there is a roll off in the V3 and Neve, it could be the low end thing is from the mics. ymmv

edit to clarify XLS

[page]

Happen to have a portico/7xx comp handy (of regardless of whether it's the akgs or otherwise, just curious about the differences)?

It's pretty easy for me to pull some samples of the various configurations if you would like to hear them but it's not going to be a controlled comparison. 

no worries. I was just curious how the neve & silk mode sounded compared to the 722 was all.

[dactylus]

I'd love to hear a Neve+silk sample.  Thanks!

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

At http://tapers.org/download/ all those TLM170 and DPA4023 recordings are mine and most of them should be portico+silk.  None of my 414XLS recordings are on there but I'll do something about that in the next couple of days.

[DSatz]

AKG has been using two very different-sounding capsules in their "414" series for many years now. At any given time they offer two models of "414"--one with the one capsule, and one with the other one. One of the capsules is relatively neutral-sounding and has basically flat overall response; it's an all-around studio "workhorse." The other capsule has a high-frequency emphasis and was designed for close-miking of vocals. It comes closer to the characteristics of the capsule in the original AKG C 12 from the 1950s and 60s (although no one who has used the original classic would ever say that the modern version sounds the same).

The C 414 B-ULS uses the capsule that has the basically flat high-frequency response. Lil Kim Jong Il mentioned that he uses the C 414 XLS. There have been several versions of that, but they all use the other type of capsule (the kind designed for close-miking vocals).

So just a caution--you can't make valid judgments about preamps when the microphones involved are so completely different. The sonic difference between the two capsule series is WAY greater than the difference between any two preamps would normally ever be.

--best regards

[darby]

I have used both types of 414 capsules (ULS/XLS) thru a V3 and feel they both pair rather nicely

EDIT: for far field recording I preferred the XLS

[jazzgtrl4]

Thanks everyone for the replies...To be honest i really havent given it a fair shot with the 414>V3...i have run it pretty much Hyper (DINa) a few times. Sounded muddy to me with the V3..? i dont know.., but when i used my 414's straight into my PMD661 Oade Mod i really liked that sound. I still haven't tried the 414's straight into the MiniMe yet....was seeing what everyone else thought...thanks

[acidjack]

I like mine with the oade 248 or oade mod 44

[F.O.Bean]

Thanks everyone for the replies...To be honest i really havent given it a fair shot with the 414>V3...i have run it pretty much Hyper (DINa) a few times. Sounded muddy to me with the V3..? i dont know.., but when i used my 414's straight into my PMD661 Oade Mod i really liked that sound. I still haven't tried the 414's straight into the MiniMe yet....was seeing what everyone else thought...thanks

So why dont you just get another Oade Mod 661

[NOLAfishwater]

Thanks everyone for the replies...To be honest i really havent given it a fair shot with the 414>V3...i have run it pretty much Hyper (DINa) a few times. Sounded muddy to me with the V3..? i dont know.., but when i used my 414's straight into my PMD661 Oade Mod i really liked that sound. I still haven't tried the 414's straight into the MiniMe yet....was seeing what everyone else thought...thanks

you have km150's, run those hyper. the hyper setting on the 414's was my least favorite setting. V3 sounded great with the 414's imo.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

EDIT: for far field recording I preferred the XLS

I've found that I have a preference for the XLS and AKxx caps from the lawn or way back and DPA or TLM170 at the board or FOB. There might be a reason for that. Higher frequencies attenuate more than low frequencies over distance.  Mics further back behind the soundboard are going to hear less of the HF than the guy doing the mix. According to this calculator, sound at 10kHz is attenuated 4.8db/100ft, sound at 13kHz is attenuated 7.8db/100ft. I think the HF attenuation running 30ft-50ft behind the board would be compensated by the response bump of the XLS.  Someone running ULS should run up front with me

I am uploading some shows to tapers.org that are 414XLS > Portico+silk in case anyone is interested in hearing samples of various configurations with that chain. They should be visible in the public download area by this evening.

07/20/2007 Kate Gaffney - Blumlein FOB in a tent
04/11/2007 NRPS - hypers XY at the board in a club
05/26/2007 Mule - subs NOS FOB in a fieldhouse
08/14/2007 Ratdog - cards ORTF FOB in a shed

[F.O.Bean]

I think running coincident w/ the 414s is the way to go. I have heard some SMOKIN 414>v3 sources running Hypers/XY

[Fried Chicken Boy]

AKG has been using two very different-sounding capsules in their "414" series for many years now. At any given time they offer two models of "414"--one with the one capsule, and one with the other one. One of the capsules is relatively neutral-sounding and has basically flat overall response; it's an all-around studio "workhorse." The other capsule has a high-frequency emphasis and was designed for close-miking of vocals.

Pertinent info from DSatz.  For the past several years, AKG has been selling the "flat response" 414 as the XLS.  The version with the mid-range bump (better presence for vocals) is marketed as the XLII.  Owning the XLS version myself, I have heard excellent pulls with both versions of the mic.

To answer the OP's question, I've run my 414's straight into an unmodded R-44 and through a Sound Devices MixPre and have gotten great results with both.  While the MixPre doesn't have much of it's own color, it definitely brings out clarity and depth with the 414's.

[jazzgtrl4]

Thanks everyone for the replies...To be honest i really havent given it a fair shot with the 414>V3...i have run it pretty much Hyper (DINa) a few times. Sounded muddy to me with the V3..? i dont know.., but when i used my 414's straight into my PMD661 Oade Mod i really liked that sound. I still haven't tried the 414's straight into the MiniMe yet....was seeing what everyone else thought...thanks

you have km150's, run those hyper. the hyper setting on the 414's was my least favorite setting. V3 sounded great with the 414's imo.

Thanks, ill just have to try some different configs etc...i was just expecting it to sound better with the V3. when i ran it the way i did.

[SmokinJoe]

I had AKG414-XLS's for a while, maybe a couple of years, and I ran them quite a bit, mostly with my V3, occasionally straight into my Busman R4, either Tmod or Vintage Mod.  Personally I preferred the V3.  I don't think the preamp is nearly as big a factor as deciding "is this the right tool for the job here tonight?"  If you are in the right place and you pick the right setup/patterns it can yield great results.  If you choose poorly you will be disappointed.  That's the thing about having lots of options... knowing which ones are bad ones.

[Gutbucket]

That's the thing about having lots of options... knowing which ones are bad ones.

QFT

Instant classic quote right there.

[kindms]

I used to run the AKG414XLS/st in to a V3 and loved the sound.

I currently run the 414's directly in to my Oade T-Mod HDP2. I don't hear much of a difference and the less gear + added battery life are a nice bonus.

IMHO the 414's shine in fig8's blumlien. Of course it is rare when this pattern is ideal but when it is look out.

[F.O.Bean]

I used to run the AKG414XLS/st in to a V3 and loved the sound.

I currently run the 414's directly in to my Oade T-Mod HDP2. I don't hear much of a difference and the less gear + added battery life are a nice bonus.

IMHO the 414's shine in fig8's blumlien. Of course it is rare when this pattern is ideal but when it is look out.

Wonder where my old V3 is now

[Fried Chicken Boy]

IMHO the 414's shine in fig8's blumlien. Of course it is rare when this pattern is ideal but when it is look out.

Right on the money.

[macdaddy]

Aren't the caps in the c422 the 414 caps?

I have have tried a bunch of different preamps with the c422: I like the v2 first, then the psp2, then the aerco...

and. I agree-blumlein is where it is at.