Topic: entry level recording mic suggestions

[tbirdbuzz]

I got an Alesis Palmtrak digital recorder for Christmas, and after using it a few times I have found out a couple of thing (none of them are good):

1: I record a lot of punk and harcdcore shows so most of the venues are small and the bands are loud.  Even with the gain on low and the recording level on 1, the recording levels are still too hot. I find myseld backing up to dial in the sound like I did with my old school Panasonic cassette recorder with a hard-wired Radio Shack breadboard mic on 4 feet of wire.

2: The microphone is super sensitive.  I recorded a band at one show where there seem to be more drinkers chatting behind me than fans of the band that wer watching the show.  When I listened to the playback, I could distinctly hear the murmur of the people behind me to the point of partially overshadowing the music.

I'm looking for an inexpensive microphone that may cut down the crazy sensitivity of the Palmtrack.  It has to be small so I can clip it on to my shirt. It would also be nice if it would only record what is in front of me rather than being omnidirectional.  The Palmtrack has a 1/8 extrenal mic jack and I see that most mics require a 3.5 mm jack.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am almost ready to return recording shows in mp4 video mode with my Ericsson 750A cell phone.

[newplanet7]

Unless you plan on recording with a stereo mic or two external mics, you will be recording mono.
In all fairness, I am not sure what you expect the quality to be like using the equipment you are using.
it's an $80 recorder in high spl(LOUD) environments. There are ZERO published specs on it even on the alesis site
and it looks to be discontinued from quite a few places.
It doesn't even say if it has plug in power to operate a mic, so you may even need a pre or battery box and then go line in.
Without even basic information like the line specs, which probably aren't right anyway, recommending a mic
is pointless with a recorder that can't handle it. 
My advice, and I am sure most others will be, save a few dollars and get a good starter rig or at least a capable recorder.
Get something that is proven.
Go to our recording gear thread to search for a recorder that fits your needs.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=11.0

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Define "inexpensive"

...I consider my Nevaton's to be inexpensive. They run about $600 a pair, and you'd need a preamp. My preamp is $200.

[H₂O]

My starter/entry level rig was:
km140 > PSP-2 > DA-P1

What is your budget?

I would get an M10 and a church setup or something similar

[manida]

total newb here as well.  Im building up my first rig now.  I'd been thinking of recording shows for 20 years now and finally took the plunge.

I bought the Tascam DR-2d for around $120
Bought (from a member here) a set of used AT853s (w/ the 4.7k mod terminated to a 3.5mm miniplug) for $135
I just ordered a CA9100 pre amp for this setup, around $165 I think it was

Im around $420 into it so far.  Which, for now, is totally good enough for me.

so, my setup will soon be:  AT853s>CA9100>Tascam DR-2d  (damn, I always wanted to be able to post a lineage of my own!)

Still need to figure out a mounting setup, some other cables, mic stand and a bag or gun box to store everything....

[bryonsos]

total newb here as well.  Im building up my first rig now.  I'd been thinking of recording shows for 20 years now and finally took the plunge.

I bought the Tascam DR-2d for around $120
Bought (from a member here) a set of used AT853s (w/ the 4.7k mod terminated to a 3.5mm miniplug) for $135
I just ordered a CA9100 pre amp for this setup, around $165 I think it was

Im around $420 into it so far.  Which, for now, is totally good enough for me.

so, my setup will soon be:  AT853s>CA9100>Tascam DR-2d  (damn, I always wanted to be able to post a lineage of my own!)

Still need to figure out a mounting setup, some other cables, mic stand and a bag or gun box to store everything....

Good choices, you'll make nice tapes. My buddy has those ATs and made a nice mount for them with PVC pipe.

[manida]

yeah, a buddy of mine here (and is also on this forum) made a PVC mount that I used the other night for Blitzen Trapper.  Worked great and I think Im gonna do the exact same thing.

Also, I just went to Sportsman's Warehouse during my lunch hour and bought a foam-lined plastic gun box for $25.  Big pimpin now.

[TimeBandit]

its not the best recorder but does it have a Line in / mic in?

Get a set of church audio mics + battery box, run them into line in and you are set for loud shows.

After few months you learned to handle the mics with placing them, and if you see then you still enjoy taping you can invest in a better recorder, and more mics for different needs and so on.

[tbirdbuzz]

Many thanks for all of the advice.  I would consider spending 3/400 on a complete setup. I have been recording since '85 and I thought is was time to step into the digital age, but apparently my recorder was the wrong choice. 

Also, I should have mentioned that all of my recordings are stealth. The equipment has to be small enough to conceal from the door police.
There is no mic placement except maybe clipped to my shirt or in a shirt/jacket pocket. 

The Alesis does have a line in/mic in.

Church mics,  Tascam DR-2d, as well as the PCM-M10 are all good reccomendations for me.

I'm going to a larger venue show this Saturday so I will test the Alesis onboard mics again. If someone buys my Metallica jacket on ebay, maybe I will be able to afford a new setup sooner than later!


In the meantime, I will browse the recorder section to see what fits my needs best.

[rastasean]

Lots of good advice here, as expected.

Countryman b3 should also be considered. These mics are sold unterminated so you will have to get them terminated or do it yourself.
http://soundmann.com/ has some sample clips of the mics. The b3s won't need a pre-amp and can go in mic in with plug in power.

[TimeBandit]

Also, I should have mentioned that all of my recordings are 

For that some small mics like CAFS very small or CA-11 with croakies to mount on glasses.  Good point for the CA-11 you can choose omni or card capsules for different need on them.
If theres still some deal breaker availiable get an Dr2D for 90 Dollars. ottherwise an Sony m10

Good for Dr2D 4 channel recording.

[drivingwheel]

I have a pair of $125 mxl993s I sent to Busman to get modded for $120 - so less than $300 in mics, got a used ua-5 with a t-mod for $150 and a dr-2d to run it into.

Easy peasy - the dr-2ds internals aren't bad for stealthing, either.

[yltfan]

Another vote for AT853>ca9100. It's a great lo-pro setup, inexpensive, and would probably work fine with the Alesis.

[tbirdbuzz]

Many thanks for all of the advice.  I bought a gently used  R-09 off of ebay last night.  I like the fact that its onboard mics can handle loud situations. The seller says the inputs still work in case I decide to buy external mics somewhere down the road. 

[Chimney Top]

Many thanks for all of the advice.  I bought a gently used  R-09 off of ebay last night.  I like the fact that its onboard mics can handle loud situations. The seller says the inputs still work in case I decide to buy external mics somewhere down the road.

That is a good recorder. 

I would go with the Tascam DR40.  $199 new.  4 channels, line in, XLR inputs, and pretty darn good preamps.  it can fit in your pocket.

[TimeBandit]

Maybe that recorder can handle loud SPL but how would you fix it with clear Mic position to the sound source, especially in  situations?

If you don't want to fiddle around with extra preamp, the Internal Preamp from the PCm_m10 is nice or get a Marantz PMD 620, which has even one of the hottest PIP inputs.

[SmokinJoe]

Darktrain had a set of 4.7k mod AT853's in the yard sale for a reasonable price. A battery box can be used to power the mics, then run line in to the Alesis, and you are set for under $200. Battery boxes are a lot cheaper than preamps, and if you are talking about loud music, you don't need the gain of the preamp.  I have a similar set of AT's > St9100 > R09, and the preamp is great for acoustic stuff but on loud stuff it gets turned down.

Another setup I liked was the Core-Sound Binaurals. They are omni mics with their own battery box, $250 new. The advantage here is the mics/battery box connection locks. Maybe I'm just a klutz, but when I ran the St9100 with miniplug connections undercover I had things coming unplugged in my pockets. Locking connectors won't do that.

[manida]

I snagged those AT853s......muchos Garcias to darktrain

[tbirdbuzz]

I'm testing the R-09 this weekend and I will post how it records.  A lot of the shows I tape are in small to claustrophobic venues with semi-decent to absolute shit PAs so I trained myself not to be a perfectionist (pretty dificult for a Virgo).  I think the R-09s internal mics will work just fine for me. Now I have to brush up on the 108 page manual.

[acidjack]

I'm testing the R-09 this weekend and I will post how it records.  A lot of the shows I tape are in small to claustrophobic venues with semi-decent to absolute shit PAs so I trained myself not to be a perfectionist (pretty dificult for a Virgo).  I think the R-09s internal mics will work just fine for me. Now I have to brush up on the 108 page manual.

Assuming you are recording rock music, amplified music, or really any music you intend to listen to again, I'd say they won't.      

You've spent money to have a decent quality recorder.  You may as well invest a bit more to have some mics that will do your endeavor justice, IMHO.

[jbou]

I also would recommend AT 853s. They will give good quality for the price.