Topic: Drum mic kits

[cybergaloot]

Any recommendation for affordable drum mic kits? I'm starting to look into them and am not anywhere near ready to buy some but I'm looking for a kick mic, three tom mics, a snare mic and maybe two overheads. Something for the high hat would be nice but I'm thinking a SM57 would work well for that. For toms and snare, I'd prefer shorter bodied mics, not longer ones like the SM57.

[jefflester]

I bought a cheap set of CAD mics but haven't really used them much. A thread on Drummers Forum indicates the Audix sets give you the best performance vs cost.
Like these (no overheads):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/audix-fp5-drum-mic-pack

Or these (w/overheads):
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/audix-fp7-drum-mic-pack

http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/topic/81228-mic-my-drums-what-do-you-recommend/

Seems like you already have plenty of choices in hand for overheads.

[cybergaloot]

I've heard varying reviews on Audix drum mics. That doesn't mean I've ruled them out by any means. Anybody can write a bad review and any company can make a bad model but have otherwise good gear. You have to take that stuff with a grain of salt. Right now I'm using my MXL 603s mics as the drum overheads but am thinking of trying my ADK A6 mics in that spot and see how they work out. I'm not going to rule out getting a kit with overheads though. I think a set of drum mics is my next logical step into the multitrack world.

[yousef]

The general consensus seems to be that the cheap/midrange mic kits are worse value than buying separate kick, snare and a pair of overheads in terms of sound quality per unit cost.

We've got a budget seven-piece kit but I suspect that for the money it would have cost new (not to mention setting up and packing away seven clips and leads) we'd have been better off getting a decent kick mic, couple of sm57s/AKG310s and a pair of cheap condensers. I've never mic'd a hi-hat btw - the damned things seem louder than the rest of the kit put together...

I keep reading up on the Glyn Johns technique - seems quite an elegant solution if you can pull it off.

[Patrick]

Really can't go wrong with Audix all over the kit.  I prefer the full size D series for toms as opposed to the Micro-D condensers.   But if I have a choice I don't prefer Audix overheads, tending to go with AT or AKG's.  For live sound I would say you would get the most mileage out of an Audix 5 or 7 piece drum mic kit.  For studio or session work, maybe consider some Audix drum mics and a pair of Earthworks overheads, or even the earthworks 3 piece drum kit which sounds absolutely fantastic on a well tuned drumset.

I am mixing a show in Cancun this summer and this is what my drum mics look like:

1.  Kick In  -  Shure Beta91a
2. Kick Out -  Audix d6 (with Earthworks KickPad inline)
3.  Snare Top - Audix i5
4. Snare Bottom - Shure sm57 (transformer removed mod)
5. Hi Hat          - Audix f15 or AT Pro37
6. Tom 1          - Audix d2
7. Tom 2          - Audix d4
8.  Percussion   - AT ATM450
9. OVHL           - Shure sm81
10. OVHR         - Shure sm81

[cybergaloot]

The general consensus seems to be that the cheap/midrange mic kits are worse value than buying separate kick, snare and a pair of overheads in terms of sound quality per unit cost.

We've got a budget seven-piece kit but I suspect that for the money it would have cost new (not to mention setting up and packing away seven clips and leads) we'd have been better off getting a decent kick mic, couple of sm57s/AKG310s and a pair of cheap condensers. I've never mic'd a hi-hat btw - the damned things seem louder than the rest of the kit put together...

I keep reading up on the Glyn Johns technique - seems quite an elegant solution if you can pull it off.

For most of the acts I record I wouldn't use a high hat mic either. But sometimes we get a drummer with a jazz background who can really play one. That's who I'd use it for.  Right now the club I record at most has digital reference mics for the kick, tom and snare plus another for the tom If I'd go get a mount for it. I use a pair of MXL 603s condensors for the overheads. I'm going to try using my ADK A6 mics for overheads and see how I like that. I just think I could do better than the digital reference mics and it would be nice to have my own kit for gigs away from the club. I'm already planning on getting some basic Shure SM series mics for my personal use plus some Sennheiser e609s mics for guitar cabs.

[cybergaloot]

Really can't go wrong with Audix all over the kit.  I prefer the full size D series for toms as opposed to the Micro-D condensers.   But if I have a choice I don't prefer Audix overheads, tending to go with AT or AKG's.  For live sound I would say you would get the most mileage out of an Audix 5 or 7 piece drum mic kit.  For studio or session work, maybe consider some Audix drum mics and a pair of Earthworks overheads, or even the earthworks 3 piece drum kit which sounds absolutely fantastic on a well tuned drumset.

I am mixing a show in Cancun this summer and this is what my drum mics look like:

1.  Kick In  -  Shure Beta91a
2. Kick Out -  Audix d6 (with Earthworks KickPad inline)
3.  Snare Top - Audix i5
4. Snare Bottom - Shure sm57 (transformer removed mod)
5. Hi Hat          - Audix f15 or AT Pro37
6. Tom 1          - Audix d2
7. Tom 2          - Audix d4
8.  Percussion   - AT ATM450
9. OVHL           - Shure sm81
10. OVHR         - Shure sm81

Thanks for the info! I think the Earthworks drum mic kit is a bit out of my range unless I win Powerball tonight. I wish I could handle all those mics on drums but I'll have to be a bit more conservative. I'm going to keep the list though, who knows what may show up through the used channels. I'm definitely going to rethink Audix mics.

[BonoBeats]

The good news is that you already have a pair of useable overheads- I know plenty of drummers who use C4's with good results (likewise, my KSM137's work double time as drum OH's and in my taping rig).

As was mentioned before, I'm a fan of Audix mics on toms and snare. D2 and D4 are really great mics; the Fusion series isn't bad either if you're on a budget.

As for kick mics, I recommend checking out the Recording Hacks Mic Shootout; it has audio and video samples from a wide range of kick mics, from open and natural to uber scooped:

http://recordinghacks.com/2012/06/08/kick-drum-mic-shootout/

[Patrick]

the only reason I have a hi hat mic on my list is for my onstage in ear mixes.  I'll push the hihat channel up in the monitors so the band doesn't miss the count-in to the next song.  It is usually not routed to the mains.  But it's there if I need it.  Otherwise it's just an out of phase snare drum mic, most of the time. 

[cybergaloot]

the only reason I have a hi hat mic on my list is for my onstage in ear mixes.  I'll push the hihat channel up in the monitors so the band doesn't miss the count-in to the next song.  It is usually not routed to the mains.  But it's there if I need it.  Otherwise it's just an out of phase snare drum mic, most of the time. 

I hadn't thought about it being out of phase. I've run into out of phase problems with cymbals before. I accidentally left my stage lip ambience mics way to high in the mix and it was grabbing the cymbals out of phase with the overheads. Still, if I have a free channel I can mic it at times when I feel it might help and then choose whether to use it or not during the performance or later if I'm running the HD24 recorder.

[cybergaloot]

The good news is that you already have a pair of useable overheads- I know plenty of drummers who use C4's with good results (likewise, my KSM137's work double time as drum OH's and in my taping rig).

As was mentioned before, I'm a fan of Audix mics on toms and snare. D2 and D4 are really great mics; the Fusion series isn't bad either if you're on a budget.

As for kick mics, I recommend checking out the Recording Hacks Mic Shootout; it has audio and video samples from a wide range of kick mics, from open and natural to uber scooped:

http://recordinghacks.com/2012/06/08/kick-drum-mic-shootout/

Thanks for the link! I do have three pairs of C4 mics. Two pairs have a dead mic each that I need to send in for repair. They would probably be better than the MXL 603s mics though I seem to be one of the lucky few who got a decent pair of those. I've considered doing the mod on them, at least the electrical part. That's something I can handle myself for relatively little money. I also remembered my Joe Meek JM27 mics. I left them at the club for them to use as needed and well, they haven't needed. I might as well get them back, I didn't like them for stereo taping in the field as they had a heavy flavor to them but sometimes that can work to your advantage in the right places on individual instruments. The problem is that I don't have enough experience in individually micing instruments to know which flavorings might work where.

[BonoBeats]

I've run JM27's as OH's before. They work best if you have darker cymbals that you want to brighten up a bit; otherwise the top end is a little overkill. 

Keep in mind your OH's are not only capturing the cymbals, but an overall stereo image of the kit (Ive actually had great results without mics on the toms; OH's can capture them well if positioned correctly). Use the best pair of stereo mics you have, or invest most of your money in the best pair you can afford. They're the most important mics on your kit, IMO.

[kirk97132]

Best toms mics IMO are the EV ND 308/408/468.  If you haven't tried them they you have to, they will blow you away.  can handle any SPL you throw at them, great proximity effect and their build allows great positioning.  The Audix I% is aos now taken over any theing I would think about using a 57 on.  Cleaner and flatter.  I actually do like to run a hat mike, an SDC right at the lip back side away from snare.  I don't like the over under snare sound personally but will do beater and deep in the hole kick micing.  I have also run a pair of ADK A51S mics tucked in tight under the rack and snare on each side of kick with a single overhead in a pinch for acoustic stuff with good results.  I like me ADK SC-T cards as OH's but have used a set of Toa K1's too.  I also ran a pair of ADk vienna's as OH before and liked the results but didn't feel real safe running on rock and roll drummers.  Just a little too top heavy.  The audix D4 is also a nic sounding mic that I've used.  And the Shure beta 52 would be hands down my favorite kick mic.  Stick it deep in the hole and run it a tad hot 

[cybergaloot]

I've run JM27's as OH's before. They work best if you have darker cymbals that you want to brighten up a bit; otherwise the top end is a little overkill. 

Keep in mind your OH's are not only capturing the cymbals, but an overall stereo image of the kit (Ive actually had great results without mics on the toms; OH's can capture them well if positioned correctly). Use the best pair of stereo mics you have, or invest most of your money in the best pair you can afford. They're the most important mics on your kit, IMO.

The JM27's sound a bit murky to me, that's why I didn't use them for stereo field recording. I got them for next to nothing so I wasn't worried about leaving them with the club but they haven't used them at all in at least two years so I got them back. They may come in handy one day. I was going to put up my ADK A6 mics as overheads last night but couldn't get the clips I had up for pencil mics to come loose. I would have had to run for a couple of pairs of pliers and just didn't have time. I ended up using them at the stage lip though and they sounded great there!

Our stage is small so the drum overheads can sometimes pick up other things. If the drummer is light on the cymbals there might end up being enough gain to hear the room which I don't like. The overheads are not on stands, they are hung from the ceiling by a mic flange>stereo bar>goose neck arrangement. Like I said, the stage is small so the less stands the better.

This video will give you an idea of what I deal with most often: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVyNg6apDA8
That audio comes from my 24 track recording that the video crew then mixed and coupled with their video. I think the drums could have been a tad further up in the mix. I saw a tutorial lately where Bobby Owsinski recommended adding some reverb with delay on the snare. I tried that this weekend and it does sound better. Also I run the overheads through a gate/compressor to try and tame the dynamics. But I know jut enough to really screw things up which is why I'm asking questions.

The reason I'm looking for a decent kit or selection of mics for the drums it to be able to take advantage of my 24 track recorder. I don't have to use everything in the final mix but by micing the toms, high hat, etc. I can make that choice later. You can't add it if you don't have it!

So, another question. How do you recommend placing the overheards? How far from the cymbals. etc? I don't have the luxury of being able to move anything once the show is underway.

[yousef]

That's a lovely video. Nice work on the recording.

I thought the drum overheads looked a little high up to me, but I don't think that that it something that is audible on this recording.

Re hi-hat mics - would it be possible to use a dedicated hi-hat mic and channel to actually reduce the amount of hh heard in the mix, via altering the phase or some clever subtraction technique? Or am I just being stupidly optimistic? I mean, of course,  when mixing a recording, rather than in the room on the night.

[cybergaloot]

That's a lovely video. Nice work on the recording.

I thought the drum overheads looked a little high up to me, but I don't think that that it something that is audible on this recording.

Thanks on the compliment!

I too think the overheads are kind of high up. I've already added a section of gooseneck to lower them some. I bought a couple of boom arms at radio shack a year or so ago because they had them price stupid low. If I were to mount one to the ceiling pointing back and the other off the end of it pointing back forward then attach the gooseneck rig, that would make a height adjustable overhead setup. I also just bought two rolling overhead studio stands used (for a stupid low price as well!) and if been wondering how if I can do away with the bases and fit them into sockets on stage but out of the way. I dunno, I'll think about it some more. Adding another short section of gooseneck is probably the easiest solution and not permanent if it doesn't work out.

I have had a drummer reach up and smack one of the overhead mics hard with his stick. I felt like going up on stage, taking the stick away from him and driving it through his snare head while yelling "two of us can abuse gear!"

[kirk97132]

rule of thumb on OH is two drumstick lengths over the cymbals

[cybergaloot]

rule of thumb on OH is two drumstick lengths over the cymbals

So, somewhere between 30 to 34 inches.

[yousef]

I hope this doesn't descend into a 'my drumstick is longer than yours' argument.

Mine are 16". With a nylon tip 

[cybergaloot]

I hope this doesn't descend into a 'my drumstick is longer than yours' argument.

Mine are 16". With a nylon tip 

Ha! That makes you just average. I Googled it.

[yousef]

You be careful just what you're Googling for...

[cybergaloot]

You be careful just what you're Googling for...

I learned a long time ago to never search the Internet for "hand ball."

[Patrick]

Re hi-hat mics - would it be possible to use a dedicated hi-hat mic and channel to actually reduce the amount of hh heard in the mix, via altering the phase or some clever subtraction technique? Or am I just being stupidly optimistic? I mean, of course,  when mixing a recording, rather than in the room on the night.

I've played with this idea several times and it's never worked for me.  Never effective, always sounded worse than the original signal.  I wouldn't try it.

[kcmule]

I've never mic'd a hi-hat btw - the damned things seem louder than the rest of the kit put together...

Virtually every show I've ever multitracked, or recorded in general, has a mic on the hat.  Opening acts often get Kick, Snare, Overhead due to available channels on the console.  Some small rooms don't need it, but it's still nice to have for post production purposes.

[cybergaloot]

I've never mic'd a hi-hat btw - the damned things seem louder than the rest of the kit put together...

Virtually every show I've ever multitracked, or recorded in general, has a mic on the hat.  Opening acts often get Kick, Snare, Overhead due to available channels on the console.  Some small rooms don't need it, but it's still nice to have for post production purposes.

Some guys bash on a high hat like it was a crash cymbal but others can work it with a finesse that just begs for a mic. Now if we could just get rid of those damn Chinese cymbals that sound like the friggin' lid of a stew pot. I hate those things with a passion and most of the drummers I run into who have them use them way too much. Trashy sounding crap. Fortunately they seem to be fading in popularity.

[allan]

my live kit consists of:
kick - audix D6
snare - shure SM57
toms - sennheiser MD504 - aka e604 - these are fantastic - small with nice easy to use rim clips - great for guitar and bass as well
OH - nakamichi CM300

Studio kit:
kick - AKG D112
Snare top - Beyer M201 or Shure SM7
Snare bottom - shure SM57
rack toms - Sennheiser md421 or Beyer Soundstar X1
floor tom - Shure beta 52
OH - AKG C414
hat - Neumann KM184
room - Cascade Fat head

[yousef]

I've played with this idea several times and it's never worked for me.  Never effective, always sounded worse than the original signal.  I wouldn't try it.

It did sound too good to be true...

Interesting to hear other approaches to mic'ing a kit, especially the HH stuff. I often look at those crazy 10-cymbal, 6-tom, double bass drum and assorted percussion type kits and wonder where on earth you would start with all that...

[cybergaloot]

I've played with this idea several times and it's never worked for me.  Never effective, always sounded worse than the original signal.  I wouldn't try it.

It did sound too good to be true...

Interesting to hear other approaches to mic'ing a kit, especially the HH stuff. I often look at those crazy 10-cymbal, 6-tom, double bass drum and assorted percussion type kits and wonder where on earth you would start with all that...

Fortunately I'm a blues fan and most blues acts don't use kits like that. In fact when I see a drummer set up with more than four cymbals I wonder if they wandered into the wrong club.

[Patrick]

my live kit consists of:
kick - audix D6
snare - shure SM57
toms - sennheiser MD504 - aka e604 - these are fantastic - small with nice easy to use rim clips - great for guitar and bass as well
OH - nakamichi CM300

Studio kit:
kick - AKG D112
Snare top - Beyer M201 or Shure SM7
Snare bottom - shure SM57
rack toms - Sennheiser md421 or Beyer Soundstar X1
floor tom - Shure beta 52
OH - AKG C414
hat - Neumann KM184
room - Cascade Fat head

Solid choices all around.  Love the CM300's on overheads!  They've been my primary "taping" microphones for almost 10 years, but I rarely bring them out on rock stages finding them way too harsh for anything involving cymbals or drums.  I have used them in the studio on really muddy, thick metal guitar amps and it worked extremely well.