Author Topic: AT853 and Phantom Power--clarification (Read 12765 times)

Karl · « **on:** April 11, 2004, 07:05:21 PM »

There have been a few in depth threads about the AT 853's, and the consenus has been that you can get the best sound out of them when they are using phantom power. One thing that needs clarification--Sound Professionals offers two different options for phantom power--what EXACTLY is the difference? One option allows phantom OR battery power, the other only phantom power--what's the physical/electrical difference? (see link):

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&item=SP-CMC-4&type=store

In one of the previous threads, joemango asserted that the power adapters choked 48V down to about 10V--I have real doubts about that. I don't know how 10V would get you 13 additional dB of SPL capability.

leegeddy · « **Reply #1 on:** April 11, 2004, 07:48:29 PM »

Quote from: Karl on April 11, 2004, 07:05:21 PM

There have been a few in depth threads about the AT 853's, and the consenus has been that you can get the best sound out of them when they are using phantom power. One thing that needs clarification--Sound Professionals offers two different options for phantom power--what EXACTLY is the difference? One option allows phantom OR battery power, the other only phantom power--what's the physical/electrical difference? (see link):

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&item=SP-CMC-4&type=store

In one of the previous threads, joemango asserted that the power adapters choked 48V down to about 10V--I have real doubts about that. I don't know how 10V would get you 13 additional dB of SPL capability.

see Fintstoneesq drawing attached:

>>In one of the previous threads, joemango asserted that the power adapters choked 48V down to about 10V--I have real doubts about that. I don't know how 10V would get you 13 additional dB of SPL capability.

i haven't verified those voltages mentioned above, but you should understand that phantom power (equal voltages across pins 2 and 3 respect to pin 1 ground) is not the same as "plug in" power.

marc

BCostigan · « **Reply #2 on:** April 11, 2004, 07:51:26 PM »

I could give a whole bunch of educated guesses as to the difference between plugin power and phantom power......but cannot say for sure. I CAN say for sure that 99% of all high end gear supplies 48 volts phantom power and not plug in power.

Do you have a pre with phantom power? If so I'd say get that phantom adapters...if not get the battery box.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2004, 05:03:57 AM »

if you can swing the cash and you have a pre that provides 48V phantom, go for it. There is most likely no difference between options 2 and 3 as long as you use phantom on option 3, it just gives you the option of battery or phantom....I believe the sound to be much better with phantom.

hoyt · « **Reply #4 on:** April 12, 2004, 07:33:43 AM »

Quote from: Karl on April 11, 2004, 07:05:21 PM

There have been a few in depth threads about the AT 853's, and the consenus has been that you can get the best sound out of them when they are using phantom power. One thing that needs clarification--Sound Professionals offers two different options for phantom power--what EXACTLY is the difference? One option allows phantom OR battery power, the other only phantom power--what's the physical/electrical difference? (see link):

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&item=SP-CMC-4&type=store

In one of the previous threads, joemango asserted that the power adapters choked 48V down to about 10V--I have real doubts about that. I don't know how 10V would get you 13 additional dB of SPL capability.

The difference is that the option with the power box, allows you to be a little more stealthy if you can't crotch the preamp. If you ever think you'll stealth a pretty secure place, it's a nice option.

--hoyt

nickgregory · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2004, 08:49:42 AM »

there are lots of threads about this on this board, so I wont go into too much detail, but I can tell you from experience, if you are going to be taping loud rock/rap/metal shows, you will have distortion problems with the mic overloading with the 9V batt box option. By raising the SPLs the mics can manage with the use of a preamp, this risk is minimized.

lds490 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2004, 08:54:50 AM »

I purchased the phantom power only option of the AT 831s. I'm happy with the results and I bet the 853s will be even better. Keep in mind that the set up from SP is a little differend from what you get from purchasing directly from an AT dealer. SP gives you phantom power modules by Samson, not AT. I think the AT modules have a bass roll-off switch which the Samson's lack. Also, one of my Samson modules was dead and I had to send it back. SP turned it around quickly.

Karl · « **Reply #7 on:** April 12, 2004, 12:41:36 PM »

So, I'm taking it that the only difference between the two options is how the cables are terminated. Right

Does any know for sure?

blu666z · « **Reply #8 on:** April 12, 2004, 02:01:12 PM »

And the power adapters.

-Kevin

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #9 on:** April 12, 2004, 02:20:46 PM »

they have pictures of all this on the site

pfife · « **Reply #10 on:** April 12, 2004, 02:49:48 PM »

IS there anything in particular about these mics that allow this to mod to be done, or can I do this mod with any SP mics? I have a set of their Innovative Specialist mics... and making them run on phantom power is pretty appealing...

Thanks...

Karl · « **Reply #11 on:** April 12, 2004, 05:57:27 PM »

Kevin, it looks like both options come with power adapters.

hoyt · « **Reply #12 on:** April 12, 2004, 06:32:40 PM »

Quote from: Karl on April 12, 2004, 05:57:27 PM

Kevin, it looks like both options come with power adapters.

I think Kevin was refering to modified or non-modified. If you get option 2 you do not have the option to run it on a battery box. In other words, if you go to a show where you don't have your phantom powering preamp, your mics won't work. In essence when I modified the mics myself, I would get option 2 if I juts cut my wires and tossed the 1/8" end.

Option 3 allows you to choose (at a show) whether or not you want to run off of phantom powering, or off of a battery box. When I modified mine myself, this is achieved by taking that cut off 1/8" piece and adding male mini xlrs to the ends.

If you're going to stealth with these things, it's certainly worth it to go with option 3. Just in case you can't get in with that pre...

Kevin - your's went in the mail today!

--hoyt

blu666z · « **Reply #13 on:** April 12, 2004, 06:51:30 PM »

Can't wait to try them out...going to Boise this weekend. Maybe then.....repot to follow.

-Kevin

Karl · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2004, 02:39:17 AM »

Okay, thanks, I think I got it now. Nowhere was it very obvious that the phantom power adapters were modified also.

What I have right now is the standard AT853's from sound pro's, terminated in the 1/8" miniplug (they are the option with the gooseneck). Couple of questions--if I hack the ends off, right near where the miniplug is, can I make the necessary mods right there? Or is the wiring further up in the mics? And is it easy to mod the Samson adapters, to work with phantom and/or battery box power?

caymanreview · « **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2004, 02:55:38 AM »

you can mod the mics anywhere on thier cables

all you do is add mini-xlr connections to the cables, which you can also add to the cut off cable that has the 1/8" miniplug on it. so then if you wanted to run phantom, just unplug the mini-xlrs and plug them into the power adapter/mic pre w/ 48v phantom

you wouldnt need the samson adapters if you chose to run the battery box, so you wouldnt ned to mod them

hope im of help, i dont own any of these mics currently and have never modded or owned modded ones, just info from what ive read

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #16 on:** April 13, 2004, 03:25:06 AM »

ok, you put mini-xlr connectors on the end of each mic. The mini-xlr will plug straight into the adapters providing phantom. Then make a dual mini-xlr > single 1/8" mini adapter cable. This will allow the mini-xlr ends to be converted into a single 1/8" output, just as you had before.

SP will do this for $100 but they might use different connectors, instead of the mini-xlrs.

Hoyt and leegeddy have done this mod themselves, maybe they can post pics or add a link. Either way, it's not that difficult and it would be something I would try if I ever considered going back to battery power (which I wouldn't)

dano420 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 13, 2004, 05:10:43 PM »

FWIW, I bought the phantom power modules from SP about 5-6 months ago and they are indeed genuine AT phantom modules. I mod'ed my setup with mini-xlr's to use both phantom and the 1/8" plug. I must say that it works great! Here's a picture. Peace

leegeddy · « **Reply #18 on:** April 13, 2004, 06:17:25 PM »

Quote from: dano420 on April 13, 2004, 05:10:43 PM

FWIW, I bought the phantom power modules from SP about 5-6 months ago and they are indeed genuine AT phantom modules. I mod'ed my setup with mini-xlr's to use both phantom and the 1/8" plug. I must say that it works great! Here's a picture. Peace

dano;

just out of curiosity, have you ran your setup WITH phantom power yet? i hate to say that it looks impossible with the setup in that photo.

marc

mattb · « **Reply #19 on:** April 13, 2004, 06:37:02 PM »

I was about to ask how you got away with one mini XLR for two channels? But maybe he didn't get away with it...

dano420 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 13, 2004, 06:50:15 PM »

Yes, I have used it and it works flawlessly (and sounds WAY better than the SP batt box). XLR has three connections, a "+" or hot, a "-" or drain and a ground. The ground is a shared common so what I did was use a 5 pin mini-xlr and wired it "+" to "+", "-" to "-" and shared the common ground on the 5th pin. It works.

Another side note, the mic2496 comes standard with a 5-pin mini-xlr input. So as it sits stock, it also shares the 5th pin common ground.

leegeddy · « **Reply #21 on:** April 13, 2004, 07:02:42 PM »

Quote from: dano420 on April 13, 2004, 06:50:15 PM

Yes, I have used it and it works flawlessly (and sounds WAY better than the SP batt box). XLR has three connections, a "+" or hot, a "-" or drain and a ground. The ground is a shared common so what I did was use a 5 pin mini-xlr and wired it "+" to "+", "-" to "-" and shared the common ground on the 5th pin. It works.

Another side note, the mic2496 comes standard with a 5-pin mini-xlr input. So as it sits stock, it also shares the 5th pin common ground.

ahh, a 5 pinner!! that would explain it. i assumed that you were using a 3pinner.

+t for the mod.

marc

Karl · « **Reply #22 on:** April 13, 2004, 07:05:13 PM »

Sweet. When I get some time in the next few weeks, I'm going to break out the soldering iron and get to work. I have been a little unhappy with the tonal quality of my mics, but hearing that phantom power helps out gives me hope. Thanks a bunch guys, and plus t's as soon as I get 50 posts!

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #23 on:** April 14, 2004, 01:08:55 PM »

those mini-connectors are sweet, saves some space, thanx for the pics and the feedback
+

hoyt · « **Reply #24 on:** April 14, 2004, 08:27:49 PM »

Quote from: Schwillster on April 13, 2004, 03:25:06 AM

Hoyt and leegeddy have done this mod themselves, maybe they can post pics or add a link. Either way, it's not that difficult and it would be something I would try if I ever considered going back to battery power (which I wouldn't)

Yup: http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=15247;start=msg196993#msg196993

All in all it doesn't take long to do it yourself. The real pain is soldering with the tiny mini-xlrs terminals.

--hoyt

WizDawg · « **Reply #25 on:** April 15, 2004, 10:20:04 PM »

Hello,

I have a Samson Mixpad 4. I was wondering if I could use AT853s with the Mixpad Phantom option.

Thanks,
Mike

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #26 on:** April 16, 2004, 12:19:53 AM »

mattb · « **Reply #27 on:** April 19, 2004, 12:32:01 AM »

Alright. Got my 933s done. Went with the dual mini xlrs and Samson adaptors. The hardest part was reading the little numbers by the pins on that connector. Thanks to leggedy, my last-minute fears were overcome and they seem to work. Now I just need to build the adaptor to still be able to use the BB - oh and some music to tape...

AT853rxwh · « **Reply #28 on:** May 01, 2004, 08:59:52 PM »

So if I am reading this right, I should be able to take a pair of 853's (that were not sp mod'd) build up a minixlr to stereo mini and I would be able to use batt box or phantom?

AT853rxwh · « **Reply #29 on:** May 03, 2004, 12:00:02 PM »

Got a lot of AT853's offa an auction (they used to be choir mics) that are coming with transformers. Hoping that I will be able to make a cable to go from the at853's to plug power... Does anyone have the pinouts from the original mics? Don't wanna let the smoke out of em

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #30 on:** May 03, 2004, 12:35:55 PM »

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/images/gold/full/SP-CMC-4-Z.jpg

AT853rxwh · « **Reply #31 on:** May 03, 2004, 12:51:37 PM »

Thanks Schwill, but I think the stock AT853s have mini xlrs or? So I would like to leave those alone (then I could just plug em back into the transformers. The only example that I have seen was using a 5pin xlr instead of the stock ones...

Make sense?

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #32 on:** May 03, 2004, 01:03:15 PM »

the AT853a mics have mini-xlr (i think) that can be used for battery or phantom. The AT853Rx have regular XLR power modules "in-line"

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #33 on:** May 03, 2004, 01:04:19 PM »

And if it helps, in that picture, just imagine mini-xlrs instead of 1/8" minis. Either way it gets the job done

AT853rxwh · « **Reply #34 on:** May 03, 2004, 01:56:14 PM »

Gotcha! Well I have 6 at853's with transformers coming (4 black, 2 white, dunno what I am gonna do with white 853's with 25' cords but hey the price was right!) for $160 shipped! so hopefully between the 2 sets of black ones I can come up with a pair of mics that are close.

Woohoo taping on the cheap!!

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #35 on:** May 03, 2004, 05:18:16 PM »

so the transformers are in-line, attached to the mic cable?

did you get all 6 for $160?

AT853rxwh · « **Reply #36 on:** May 03, 2004, 09:22:45 PM »

Yeah got em all for $160, they are former choir mics. From what it looks like they have the connector on em (actually he said they cut off and need to be reconnected on the black ones) so I am hoping that all of em come with the at xformers... Emailed the guy and they all have card elements too...

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #37 on:** May 03, 2004, 11:27:14 PM »

holy shit, I should have just gotten my recently purchased pair from you :-p

good luck with that. If any of the transformers are AT8533 (not AT8533x) I'd be interested in buying them, if you are selling.

dano420 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 04, 2004, 01:15:33 AM »

What are the differences between the at8533 and the at8533x?

AT853rxwh · « **Reply #39 on:** May 04, 2004, 03:11:53 AM »

One is strictly phantom powered, and the other has the ability to go 1.5v button cell? I think...

AT853rxwh · « **Reply #40 on:** May 04, 2004, 03:28:07 AM »

Quote from: schwill on May 03, 2004, 11:27:14 PM

holy shit, I should have just gotten my recently purchased pair from you :-p

good luck with that. If any of the transformers are AT8533 (not AT8533x) I'd be interested in buying them, if you are selling.

Will let ya know. I might have a line on a few more that went before this batch. Guy got a few of em and only wants 2, and said he might be willing to sell me the rest.

Heck, with all of those, I could pick up a mixer and mic the band myself!

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #41 on:** May 04, 2004, 04:39:42 AM »

Quote from: dano420 on May 04, 2004, 01:15:33 AM

What are the differences between the at8533 and the at8533x?

one (3x) is soldered onto the mic cable and the other (3) has a mini-xlr connection, i think

AT853rxwh · « **Reply #42 on:** May 04, 2004, 06:52:41 AM »

AT853rx comes with

AT8533x

Power 9-52 Volts Phantom Power
Switches 2-position: Low-Frequency Roll-Off / Flat
Input Connection Screw Terminals
Output Connection 3-pin XLR-male
Dimensions 3.58 x 0.83" (91 x 21mm) (Length x Diameter)
Weight 2.1 oz (60 grams)

AT8533a comes with

AT8531 power module

Same as above, but allows battery operation lowers dynamic range.

AT8533pmx

Comes with WALL PLATE MOUNTABLE transformer (I think that I am getting a couple of these with the white ones) The mic has bare cable and goes into the xformer with screw terminals.

Even if I just end up with 6 853 and no inline xformers, it still is a smoking deal. As of right now my rig consists of a set of Panasonic mic elements linkiwitz mod'd with a Sound Pro Pre/battery box. So I will more than likely be running 9v for a while anyway.

Seeing as all these would need to be SP mod'd would be the addition of a stereo miniplug, I still think this is a pretty good deal.

merry77 · « **Reply #43 on:** March 30, 2005, 05:01:25 PM »

can someone post the link to the schematic again?

Topic was moved so the link doesn't work anymore.
Thanks.

Reply #24 on: April 14, 2004, 08:27:49 PM »

Quote from: Schwillster on April 13, 2004, 03:25:06 AM
Hoyt and leegeddy have done this mod themselves, maybe they can post pics or add a link. Either way, it's not that difficult and it would be something I would try if I ever considered going back to battery power (which I wouldn't)

Yup: http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=15247;start=msg196993#msg196993

All in all it doesn't take long to do it yourself. The real pain is soldering with the tiny mini-xlrs terminals.

--hoyt

ashevillain · « **Reply #44 on:** March 31, 2005, 09:08:41 AM »

Quote from: merry77 on March 30, 2005, 05:01:25 PM

can someone post the link to the schematic again?

Topic was moved so the link doesn't work anymore.
Thanks.

All you have to do is remove the 'yabbse' from the link.

http://www.taperssection.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=15247;start=msg196993#msg196993

mattb · « **Reply #45 on:** April 06, 2005, 12:20:13 PM »

Quote from: ashevillain on March 31, 2005, 09:08:41 AM

Quote from: merry77 on March 30, 2005, 05:01:25 PM
can someone post the link to the schematic again?

Topic was moved so the link doesn't work anymore.
Thanks.

All you have to do is remove the 'yabbse' from the link.

http://www.taperssection.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=15247;start=msg196993#msg196993

We (Bri?) should put a php script in that yabbse directory that will redirect any of these links to the non-/yabbse/ version. wouldn't be too hard to code. I'd offer a script but I haven't done much php. I could do it in asp.net in about five minutes.

Evil Taper · « **Reply #46 on:** April 08, 2005, 04:19:27 AM »

Can I mod my cmc-4 with xlr plugs to work with a mixer supplying 48v phantom per mic? For running something like a 4 mic or 5 mic mix.

Zaphod · « **Reply #47 on:** April 15, 2005, 03:48:31 PM »

The phantom power adapters are XLR.

You can't just put XLRs on them and run them phantom, you have to use the P48 adapters.

Evil Taper · « **Reply #48 on:** April 20, 2005, 07:08:26 AM »

Is that the AT8333 part that is the phantom adapter or is there some other place I can buy this from. I would like to permanently have these mics terminate with the XLR plugs...so what goes between the mic and those?

§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥ · « **Reply #49 on:** April 20, 2005, 01:44:34 PM »

You'll want the AT8533x (2 of them). This is exactly what I used for the end of my AT933/853's. You can get them from http://www.soundprofessionals.com for about $78 each. I recommend calling them though and talking to Chris... when I got mine last month they had a surplus of them and he sold them to me for $50 each.