Topic: Hyper Caps

[deadahead93]

Just got a set of AKG c480b (ck61 ck63), and I have never ran Hypers before. Only Cards and Omni...

I guess I'm just wondering when to use and when not to use the Hyper Caps? Super excited to run these and we have a lot pulling through Vegas in the next 5 months...

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers all!

[yltfan]

You will get much more detailed info elsewhere on these boards, but generally speaking, you should run the hypers when you are a little further back from the source, and/or you want to cut out some audience noise or room noise.

[StuStu]

As a VERY general rule of thumb for me: hypers indoors and cards outdoors. There are definitely exceptions.

[acidjack]

Just got a set of AKG c480b (ck61 ck63), and I have never ran Hypers before. Only Cards and Omni...

I guess I'm just wondering when to use and when not to use the Hyper Caps? Super excited to run these and we have a lot pulling through Vegas in the next 5 months...

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers all!

Remember that what tapers think of as "far back" versus the intended applications of the microphones are two very different things. There are exceptions (classical recording made in an acoustically flawless space) where a wider-patterned mic is used, say, halfway back in the room, but generally remember that most of these mics are intended to be used VERY up close -- miking a piano, a guitar, a drum, etc. The stereo patterns we are most familiar with (ORTF, etc.) are meant for mics being used right up at the source, roughly what we'd think of as "onstage". So when I see people saying stuff like "run wide cardiods" FOB, I kind of laugh, because FOB is VERY FAR from the source compared to where those kinds of mics are supposed to be used. (Small omnis can be recommended up close for stealth taping, but stealth recording is a different conversation).

Which is a long way of saying, feel free to use your hypers anywhere you normally feel free to tape from, including up close. If anything you're taping is in any kind of arena or club of any size, I'd suggest hypers over almost every other option, as a general rule. The only distance-taping I hesitate to recommend them for is outdoors, where to me they can sound thin, and you're less worried about reverberance from the venue walls.

[hi and lo]

... feel free to use your hypers anywhere you normally feel free to tape from, including up close. If anything you're taping is in any kind of arena or club of any size, I'd suggest hypers over almost every other option, as a general rule. The only distance-taping I hesitate to recommend them for is outdoors, where to me they can sound thin, and you're less worried about reverberance from the venue walls.

Agree, but I'm going to nitpick a bit here... I would only recommend Schoeps hypers anywhere you normally feel free to tape from. Not to say the CK63s are bad - they might very well be the 2nd best (commonly used) hyper out there, but beyond that there are plenty of hypers I wouldn't recommend in any environment.

[achalsey]

What is your reasoning behind that statement?  Not trying to accusatorial at all, but you seem to have a strong feeling about that, so am just curious what the basis for it is.

[datbrad]

only recommend Schoeps hypers anywhere you normally feel free to tape from. Not to say the CK63s are bad - they might very well be the 2nd best (commonly used) hyper out there, but beyond that there are plenty of hypers I wouldn't recommend in any environment.

I usually don't bite on these threads, but this one I have to chime in. I couldn't even count the occasions where at any given show, a different brand of mic sounded better than other brands being used. While I have personally considered the CK63 one of the best sounding hyper caps, there are instances where I think the AK50s sounded best of the bunch, then at another show the MG21s seemed the most dialed in, and the next show MK41s/MK41Vs did the best job. I don't think I have heard any brand of large diaphram hypers I like the sound of, however.

Of course, what I just stated is 100% subjective since I am going by my own ears, which is the best recommendation I could possibly give to the OP or to anyone else is to do the same, trust your ears.

[acidjack]

What is your reasoning behind that statement?  Not trying to accusatorial at all, but you seem to have a strong feeling about that, so am just curious what the basis for it is.

I think h and l is suggesting that the MK41 is the flattest-sounding hyper of them all, which in my anecdotal experience (having owned M-G, Schoeps, AKG ck93, AKG 414, AT 853h and MBHO KA500 hypers) is true. Haven't owned ck63s. Of the ones I have owned, the MBHO KA500 (EDIT TO ADD: And the AT 4053, which I borrowed once) was the least-worst next option. Neumann KM150 I have taped beside a ton of times and respect for what they do, but they are a "special purpose" microphone in my opinion -- meaning I would not make the recommendation I made above about them. Likewise the Neumann TLM-170.

No opinion whatsoever about Milab or Senn MKH-8050 hypers, or the DPA quasi-hyper product. Or others.

[adrianf74]

Full disclosure, I'm using MK41's these days, however, having owned the CK63's and a close friend has used 483's for years, I'd say they'll soon become your "go to" capsule most of the time when indoors.  Outdoors, you might consider the CK61 or CK62's depending on wind, location. 

The CK63's have a very pleasant pickup -- much more-so than the CK61's (which I also owned but rarely used).

[obaaron]

I always prefer 63's indoor a lot less crowd and room noise.  Outdoors its the 61's close up, hypers further back. Ymmv

[hi and lo]

Sorry.. I needed to add a bunch of these with my exaggerated statement. 

I think h and l is suggesting that the MK41 is the flattest-sounding hyper of them all

That's a great way of putting it. I think it's without question that the MK41 is the closest hyper capsule in terms of being on par with its cardioid counterpart, almost to the point that it actually better sounding. It's the only hyper I will probably ever own and if I had to sell everything, it would also the only microphone that I keep. I think that says something given that I've got way to many cardioidsto choose from and get a huge kick out of running all the various flavors. When it comes to hypers, I can honestly say I've never once listened to an akg, mbho, or mg hyper recording that even held an inch to an MK41 tape. It's just that much better, imo.

 

[deadahead93]

I can't thank you all enough for wealth of info... I think I'm going to try the 63's on their first outing at the end of the month. I had recorded one show, a while ago, with these mics before I just recently bought them. My buddy just showed up at a random Hips show and asked if I wanted to run his mics for the night. They had the 61's on them and it was a smaller-ish venue. Came out nice, but wondering how much difference the the 63's would have been... I'm sure I'll find out soon enough

Once again, thank you guys!
Here's the link to the Hips show, with said mics. Cheers

https://archive.org/details/hips2012-04-26.AKG480.flac16

[achalsey]

Ah, gotcha.  Sorry, Poe's Law and all. 

I'd have to agree with datbrad though.  I'm not a connoisseur at all (but full disclosure also not a schoeps fan boy at all) but often I find others recordings sound better than mine in different ways.  I would never say one mic sounds (subjectively) better almost every time.

[jbell]

Ah, gotcha.  Sorry, Poe's Law and all. 

I'd have to agree with datbrad though.  I'm not a connoisseur at all (but full disclosure also not a I am a schoeps fan boy at all) but often I find others recordings sound better than mine in different ways.  I would never say one mic sounds (subjectively) better almost every time.

Fixed that for ya!!     Haven't seen many new Philly recordings 

[achalsey]

Ah, gotcha.  Sorry, Poe's Law and all. 

I'd have to agree with datbrad though.  I'm not a connoisseur at all (but full disclosure also not a I am a schoeps fan boy at all) but often I find others recordings sound better than mine in different ways.  I would never say one mic sounds (subjectively) better almost every time.

Fixed that for ya!!     Haven't seen many new Philly recordings 

  Fair.  I've been slacking on recording big time.  Posted a show from last month in community audio a couple days ago.  Another nice CK63 recording.