Topic: Another ORTF question

[Colin Liston]

Now I know I have asked this sort of quesiton before, but this is little more specific.  Any ideas are grately appreciated

Okay I realize that ORTF is a stereo taping technique, but I have a question/dilemma. 

My dilemma is this:

I usually tape in a small club (Freebird Live), the speaker stacks are about 21’ apart and I usually tape with my mics (DPA 4023’s) hanging from the balcony about 28’ back and I can use either the DPA ORTF bar or a regular t-bar .  If I run ORTF then my mics are pointing toward the walls of the club, one wall being the bar area, which can get chatty.

My question is this: 

Is it better to point my mics at the stacks or run ORTF with my mics not pointing at the stacks? 

Thanks,
colin

[Nick Graham]

One thing to keep in mind is how you want your tapes to sound.

I know that seems really vague, but here's what I'm getting at. Just last night I had a guy ask me why I didn't point my mics directly at the stacks (I was running DIN by the way). I explained it this way - your ears are off axis, i.e. they don't point directly at the sound source either. They create a stereo image in your head. Pointing directly at the stacks too me sounds like a dual mono tape...no imaging. Sure the bar area may be chatty, but it might help create an ambience.

I hope this makes sense

[BC]

You could try the XY position to tighten up the included angle a bit and reduce chatter. This can help clean up the sound also, if it is bassy in there. To me the DPA 402x sound a little too bright when pointed directly at the stacks. Why not run a comparison sometime, go XY or ORTF one set, then try a more "point at the stack" type config with your t-bar for the next set.

Good luck,
Ben

[jhirte]

One thing you could try which has worked well for me, is to point at the outside edges of the stacks.

[F.O.Bean]

BINGO, coouple of nites ago, i ran ORTF way FOB, bout 15ft from the stage lip, well, it just so happened taht the mics were poitning at the outer edges of the stacks, a great way to pull consistent tapes

[MattD]

DPAs also have one of the cleanest off-axis responses in the business. Don't worry about how it "looks" unless whatever you're actually pointing at is louder than the music.

[d5]

being about 28' away, with the stacks about 21' apart, then pointing at the edges would give you an included angle of about 45 degrees and with cardioids I don't think you'd end up with much of a stereo image. it's probably also too far away for ortf and the sound of the room may be exaggerated, but it's worth a test. i'd probably do x-y or din, both 90 degrees.

...my 2 cents

[JAH]

being about 28' away, with the stacks about 21' apart, then pointing at the edges would give you an included angle of about 45 degrees and with cardioids I don't think you'd end up with much of a stereo image. it's probably also too far away for ortf and the sound of the room may be exaggerated, but it's worth a test. i'd probably do x-y or din, both 90 degrees.

...my 2 cents

better yet, a modified din and drop the angle to about 70 degrees and hope for a compromise of evils  ...it's kind of like voting...it's th best you can do given the choices.

[Kyle]

being about 28' away, with the stacks about 21' apart, then pointing at the edges would give you an included angle of about 45 degrees and with cardioids I don't think you'd end up with much of a stereo image. it's probably also too far away for ortf and the sound of the room may be exaggerated, but it's worth a test. i'd probably do x-y or din, both 90 degrees.

...my 2 cents

better yet, a modified din and drop the angle to about 70 degrees and hope for a compromise of evils  ...it's kind of like voting...it's th best you can do given the choices.

I have to agree 100% I have found that ortf with my schoeps at greater distances does exaggerate the sound off the room. The recordings are decent, just somewhat more 'ambient', if you will. I have ben using dina(17cm, 90 deg) fob and further back with very decent, consistent results. Have fun