Topic: Omni & Cardioid

[Wiesel]

I'm sorry for opening another microphone thread, but I still have some important questions, which I can't answer myself although I've read through nearly the whole forum. I hope you can help. ( I also don't know if this topic belongs to the mics or ask the tapers section, but in principle it's about mics...)

In the beginning I wanted to have omnis, but now I'm rather tending to cardioids. I'm just wondering if there's any situation, where omnis would be better!? When you are standing at the soundboard, for example, it's obvious that cardioids would be better, but what if you're standing front row? Wouldn't omnis be better than?
And where are you pointing cardioids at? The speakers?

I just noticed that the whole range of SP AT (CMC-2, 4 & 8 ) mics isn't available anymore

And then about DPA mics: can the 4061 be powered by a battery box or not? Ok, I know they CAN be powered by a batt box, but does it work well? Everyone on these forums is saying something different, so I'm very unsure. Maybe I'll buy some dpa's if I would get some.

[Wiesel]

I'm familiar with polar patterns, yes, but thanks for the description anyway! But i don't completely understand the mic config patterns. When tapers stealth-tape concerts, i think they would use the a/b pattern in general, is that right?

Assuming that is right, and you have cardioids pointing to the stage, they will pick up most of the sound which comes from the stage/speakers, if you have a particular distance to the stage.
But if you are standing, for example, in the first row, you would have to arrange the cardioids in a different direction:
if that would be the normal a/b arrangement: | |
then you would have to point them this way in the front: \ / or - - in extreme cases.
And exactly in this case, I think omnis would be better. or am I totally wrong?

So which pickup pattern is better? I'm aware that there is no straight this or that... I'm just searching for some convincing arguments. I want to tape (resp. record) as easy as possible, so that I can enjoy the shows as much as possible.

and are there any instructions available for modding a standard batt box (SP type) to fit to the dpa's?

ps: i hope this is somehow understandable; english is not my native language, as you may already have noticed

[Brian Skalinder]

When tapers stealth-tape concerts, i think they would use the a/b pattern in general, is that right?

When I stealth (which isn't frequently enough) I run my cards or hypers roughly DIN (17cm, 90º).

So which pickup pattern is better?

I usually use cards or hypers to minimize crowd noise and room problems.  I find it's easier to come away with a decent recording with cards/hypers - less (though still plenty) dependent on location, more immune to room / people problems.  Though when an omni recordings comes off well, it sounds *great*.

[Humbug]

I'm familiar with polar patterns, yes, but thanks for the description anyway! But i don't completely understand the mic config patterns. When tapers stealth-tape concerts, i think they would use the a/b pattern in general, is that right?

* Gets ruler and protractor out to check *
Well its pretty approximately (depending on how loose my collar is), DIN. I just point the mics vaguely towards the PA and hope for the best.

Assuming that is right, and you have cardioids pointing to the stage, they will pick up most of the sound which comes from the stage/speakers, if you have a particular distance to the stage.
But if you are standing, for example, in the first row, you would have to arrange the cardioids in a different direction:
if that would be the normal a/b arrangement: | |
then you would have to point them this way in the front: \ / or - - in extreme cases.
And exactly in this case, I think omnis would be better. or am I totally wrong?

So which pickup pattern is better? I'm aware that there is no straight this or that... I'm just searching for some convincing arguments. I want to tape (resp. record) as easy as possible, so that I can enjoy the shows as much as possible.

All I know what works for me, and I am lucky in that I have recorded several concerts standing next to, or at least in the same venue, as a friend of mine who uses stealth (Core Sound) Omnis. When the sound is perfect (not too loud, clear, and well balanced), he gets the better recordings; when the sound is muddy, bassy and very loud, mine come out better.

Best thing for you is to download (or trade for) some stealth recordings made with mics you are considering, this will give you a good idea of how they will sound. Want me to send you one made with the mics below?

and are there any instructions available for modding a standard batt box (SP type) to fit to the dpa's?

ps: i hope this is somehow understandable; english is not my native language, as you may already have noticed

Your English is fine, and whats changing most is your attitude towards this hobby.

DPAs typically would come with a battery box, whether new from Core Sound (or wherever), or second hand. Why would you want to modify a SP box? I would imagine the standard box will work best.

[Wiesel]

wow, thanks for your replies, they helped me a lot... If I could pass out tickets you would get some.

Best thing for you is to download (or trade for) some stealth recordings made with mics you are considering, this will give you a good idea of how they will sound. Want me to send you one made with the mics below?

thanks for the offer, but I already own quite a bunch of stealth recordings (you can see the most, but not all, on my web page)

DPAs typically would come with a battery box, whether new from Core Sound (or wherever), or second hand. Why would you want to modify a SP box? I would imagine the standard box will work best.

I would buy them off ebay, I've never seen a dpa batt box there. And I don't want to modify a genuine SP box, just a selfmade one. (which is equally to the SP boxes)... but if the standard box works well with the mics, then I would certainly not modify it.

[Wiesel]

thanks. pfife already offered me his help for this.