Topic: coupla n00b questions (phantom AT853 content)

[kuba]

I have learned a lot by reading forums and by taping myself. Hopefully I'll earn some extra money till summer, so that I'm thinking about upgrading from AT831s, they're not bad, but you know.. 

My idea is to get AT853 (or SP-CMC-4 what's the real diference anyway?), and mod them to mini-XLR connectors in order to have two possibilities:
AT853 > phantom power adapters > phantom power supply > iRiver H120 (stealthy)
AT853 > 9V batt. box > iRiver H120 (more stealthy )

I got a feeling that by replacing the mini-jack with mini-XLRs you can do both, phantom and battery (AT853a). But is it possible to run AT853Rx on battery? I bet not, but don't know why, obviously there's some other difference than connectors.. 

What's the best stealth phantom power supply? I'd say PS2, am I right?

Where to get the mics for lowest price? AT853a cost $310 here, which is just insane.


Thanks for any information.

[§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥]

I can't speak to whether the AT853's will run on batteries, but I can tell you I mod'd my AT933/853's about a year ago and have gotten much more enjoyment from them. I've ran them via the new xlr's straight into a PS2 and/or Beyerdynamic MV100 (both are great for stealthing) and an Edirol UA-5 for open taping. good luck!

[kuba]

ooops, wrong forum... sorry

I've ran them via the new xlr's straight into a PS2 ....

I think I finally got it. Is it like AT853Rx straight and AT853a with adapter? There's an adapter soldered to the end of AT853Rx's cables right?

[§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥]

ooops, wrong forum... sorry

I've ran them via the new xlr's straight into a PS2 ....

I think I finally got it. Is it like AT853Rx straight and AT853a with adapter? There's an adapter soldered to the end of AT853Rx's cables right?

I'm not sure... there seems to be many different scenarios with the small AT mics. when I originally purchased my pair, they were termintated together into one 1/8" mini-plug which I could plug (a) into a battery box or (b) straight into my DAT deck. I unterminated them and put separate xlr connectors (the AT8533x in my sig line) on each cable, so now I can plug them into a phantom power providing preamp.

[kuba]

I'm not sure... there seems to be many different scenarios with the small AT mics. when I originally purchased my pair, they were termintated together into one 1/8" mini-plug which I could plug (a) into a battery box or (b) straight into my DAT deck. I unterminated them and put separate xlr connectors (the AT8533x in my sig line) on each cable, so now I can plug them into a phantom power providing preamp.

Yeah, that's very similar to what I wanna do. I think I understand now, I understand kinda slower when it comes to technical english 

I must use AT853a for this purpose 'cause Rx is phantom only.

Thanks.

[§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥]

+T for a mighty fine drawing! good luck and let us know how it turns out.

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

The AT mics will run on batterys they have a max supply voltage or bias voltage of 12 volts dc. Even when you use a phantom preamp that comes with the mics they are only supplying 10 volts. So there is no advantage over the phantom or non phatom. Infact the only thing the preamp does is act as an impedence converter to convert the high imp to low imp 3 pin XLR. So if you are not going to use a high end preamp with XLR inputs, don't bother with the phantom option. If how ever you want to use a preamp with XLR imputs you must use the phantom interface. Hope this helps there are lots of great mic builders out there that make great mics like me for example everyone makes a good product to one degree or another but look around first not just at me but other companyies as well

Chris Church
Church-Audio

I have learned a lot by reading forums and by taping myself. Hopefully I'll earn some extra money till summer, so that I'm thinking about upgrading from AT831s, they're not bad, but you know.. 

My idea is to get AT853 (or SP-CMC-4 what's the real diference anyway?), and mod them to mini-XLR connectors in order to have two possibilities:
AT853 > phantom power adapters > phantom power supply > iRiver H120 (stealthy)
AT853 > 9V batt. box > iRiver H120 (more stealthy )

I got a feeling that by replacing the mini-jack with mini-XLRs you can do both, phantom and battery (AT853a). But is it possible to run AT853Rx on battery? I bet not, but don't know why, obviously there's some other difference than connectors.. 

What's the best stealth phantom power supply? I'd say PS2, am I right?

Where to get the mics for lowest price? AT853a cost $310 here, which is just insane.


Thanks for any information.

[tthcore]

I'm interested in getting a pair of AT853's.  My MD says it has "Plug in power", could i just plug the AT853's into my MD and get good results?  I plan on buying a pre and other gear, but for now i'm broke.

[jeromejello]

The AT mics will run on batterys they have a max supply voltage or bias voltage of 12 volts dc. Even when you use a phantom preamp that comes with the mics they are only supplying 10 volts. So there is no advantage over the phantom or non phatom. Infact the only thing the preamp does is act as an impedence converter to convert the high imp to low imp 3 pin XLR. So if you are not going to use a high end preamp with XLR inputs, don't bother with the phantom option. If how ever you want to use a preamp with XLR imputs you must use the phantom interface. Hope this helps there are lots of great mic builders out there that make great mics like me for example everyone makes a good product to one degree or another but look around first not just at me but other companyies as well

Chris Church
Church-Audio

i would have to disagree sir.  the specs from AT give a higher max spl: 135dB (vs 121dB with battery), bettery dynamic range: 106dB (vs 94dB with battery), less impedance: 200 ohms (vs 270 ohms with battery) and lower open circuit sensitivity: -44 dB /6.3mV (vs -45dB /5.6mV with battery).

and then there is the whole 'actually listening to it' which pretty much makes the techie talk above self explainatory.  phantom powered, these mics are a completely different caliber then when run off traditional battery packs.

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

You can get good resalts for low volume recording under 90 db or so but anything louder you need a battery box or a preamp to get the best resalts.

Chris Church


quote author=tthcore link=topic=58917.msg804843#msg804843 date=1141575164]
I'm interested in getting a pair of AT853's.  My MD says it has "Plug in power", could i just plug the AT853's into my MD and get good results?  I plan on buying a pre and other gear, but for now i'm broke.
[/quote]

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

Actually you can not make the commparrison because you would have to use a preamp with XLR inputs in order to do the test the real impedance of the mics is 1000k. I know this because I have actually done some consalting work for AUDIO TECHNICA. I don't just talk tech talk I am a sound engineer that has been mixing concerts for over 20 years now. As far as your specs for SPL there is a preamp that takes the high output of the capsule and "steps it down" for mic input level so yes they do sound different, but if you were to compair the output of the mics via LMS with just a phantom supply connected NOT A PREAMP. you would see they both sound exactly the same. Electronicly and sonicly with one exception the Phantom supply has a roll off at around 30-40hz using them with out the phantom supply removes this and allows them to acctually go deeper 
but what do I know?

Chris Church

The AT mics will run on batterys they have a max supply voltage or bias voltage of 12 volts dc. Even when you use a phantom preamp that comes with the mics they are only supplying 10 volts. So there is no advantage over the phantom or non phatom. Infact the only thing the preamp does is act as an impedence converter to convert the high imp to low imp 3 pin XLR. So if you are not going to use a high end preamp with XLR inputs, don't bother with the phantom option. If how ever you want to use a preamp with XLR imputs you must use the phantom interface. Hope this helps there are lots of great mic builders out there that make great mics like me for example everyone makes a good product to one degree or another but look around first not just at me but other companyies as well

Chris Church
Church-Audio

i would have to disagree sir.  the specs from AT give a higher max spl: 135dB (vs 121dB with battery), bettery dynamic range: 106dB (vs 94dB with battery), less impedance: 200 ohms (vs 270 ohms with battery) and lower open circuit sensitivity: -44 dB /6.3mV (vs -45dB /5.6mV with battery).

and then there is the whole 'actually listening to it' which pretty much makes the techie talk above self explainatory.  phantom powered, these mics are a completely different caliber then when run off traditional battery packs.

[som]

Well, heck, now I'm all confused.....

I'm planning on sending my mics to Sanjay to get the mini-xlr's and the 3-wire battery box. Now I'm hearing that this *won't* improve the sound quality?

I'm also concerned about the drop in output.....I don't have a preamp, just record line-in to a D7. Sometimes I can't get adequate levels going line in, so this will be be even more of a problem with the 3-wire box?

Would I be better off just getting the SP pre for the ocassions when I need some boost in gain, and staying with the SP battery box? What stealth preamp options will I have with the 3-wire box? I'd love an all-in-one battery box/preamp....is there such a thing that accepts mini-xlr's and powers the AT's correctly (i.e., no need for adapters)?

Like I said, I'm confused....

[scoper]

I'm planning on sending my mics to Sanjay to get the mini-xlr's and the 3-wire battery box. Now I'm hearing that this *won't* improve the sound quality?

I'm also concerned about the drop in output.....I don't have a preamp, just record line-in to a D7. Sometimes I can't get adequate levels going line in, so this will be be even more of a problem with the 3-wire box?

Would I be better off just getting the SP pre for the ocassions when I need some boost in gain, and staying with the SP battery box? What stealth preamp options will I have with the 3-wire box? I'd love an all-in-one battery box/preamp....is there such a thing that accepts mini-xlr's and powers the AT's correctly (i.e., no need for adapters)?

Like I said, I'm confused....

Welcome to the club <g>. I sent my AT853's out over the weekend for the Sanjay treatment. Chris at SP says I can expect about a 7db drop in gain - you'll certainly need a preamp unless you're going to LOUD!!!! shows. I have one of Chris Church's preamps (ST20A) which provides a fixed gain or pad of +27/-27db. I also use a Denecke AD-20, which is larger, but includes an ADC.

Chris' preamp will not supply voltage if it detects it, so my signal path will be either:
AT853>3 wire box>chuch audio preamp>jb3 analog line in (more stealthy)  or
AT853>3 wire box>AD-20>jb3 digital in.

Sanjay is also making me a reverse 3 wire connector (minixlr to 1/8") so I can theoretically use the mics with my old bb.

We'll see how it goes... I'll do a full report when I get the gear back.

[poorlyconditioned]

I'm not sure... there seems to be many different scenarios with the small AT mics. when I originally purchased my pair, they were termintated together into one 1/8" mini-plug which I could plug (a) into a battery box or (b) straight into my DAT deck. I unterminated them and put separate xlr connectors (the AT8533x in my sig line) on each cable, so now I can plug them into a phantom power providing preamp.

Yeah, that's very similar to what I wanna do. I think I understand now, I understand kinda slower when it comes to technical english 

I must use AT853a for this purpose 'cause Rx is phantom only.

Thanks.

Cute drawing!  Except you should change plugs to mini-XLRf (female plugs).  Everything else is correct.

  Richard

[poorlyconditioned]

The AT mics will run on batterys they have a max supply voltage or bias voltage of 12 volts dc. Even when you use a phantom preamp that comes with the mics they are only supplying 10 volts. So there is no advantage over the phantom or non phatom. Infact the only thing the preamp does is act as an impedence converter to convert the high imp to low imp 3 pin XLR. So if you are not going to use a high end preamp with XLR inputs, don't bother with the phantom option. If how ever you want to use a preamp with XLR imputs you must use the phantom interface. Hope this helps there are lots of great mic builders out there that make great mics like me for example everyone makes a good product to one degree or another but look around first not just at me but other companyies as well

Chris Church
Church-Audio

i would have to disagree sir.  the specs from AT give a higher max spl: 135dB (vs 121dB with battery), bettery dynamic range: 106dB (vs 94dB with battery), less impedance: 200 ohms (vs 270 ohms with battery) and lower open circuit sensitivity: -44 dB /6.3mV (vs -45dB /5.6mV with battery).

and then there is the whole 'actually listening to it' which pretty much makes the techie talk above self explainatory.  phantom powered, these mics are a completely different caliber then when run off traditional battery packs.

The reason for battery different than phantom is that the battery (in the AT8531 adapter) uses 1.5V only (a single AA cell), while the phantom powering gives about 9V.  (I've measured it!!).

So, if you have a proper (9v) 3-wire battery box you will get as good as phantom, at least in terms of volume level.  (The phantom adapters *might* be slightly better in terms of output impedance, eg., driving long cables to a mixer, but for anything we do, the battery box should be just fine.)

  Richard