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Author Topic: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals  (Read 5865 times)

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Offline Sanjay

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Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« on: January 22, 2007, 02:37:53 PM »
I've been thinking of trying to get some recordings of songs i've written recorded just for myself and to remember them.   As ashamed as I am to admit it all i've done is record with the built in microphone on the Iriver.  Now without buying any extra equipment for the time being i'd like to record with my AKG c34.  So my two questions are.

1. What would be the best way to record myself singing and playing guitar with a stereo microphone (pattern (any pattern is available), placement, etc?)

2. My acoustic that I play is quite loud, an all maple Taylor 610.  Probably the loudest acoustic i've ever played.  What can i do to muffle it down so my playing doesn't overwhelm my voice?

3. What program do some of you use to manipulate recordings to get some compression in and such? 

Thanks, I feel like such a newb trying to make studio recordings instead of live ones.
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Offline Chanher

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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2007, 02:42:42 PM »
I've seen an engineer run a "sideways" xy for this setup. The right channel is pointed up towards the mouth and the other at the guitar.

However, I did not like the results as much as other techniques.
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Offline rowjimmy

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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2007, 02:46:12 PM »
I do this all the time @ home as 'demos' and roughs for new songs.

I'm sure you know how to setup your mic (I like to fool around with various configs but x/y cards is what I've used lately) but I tend to simply set the mics back a few feet, depending on how 'live' the room is. I also orient them about head-high (that is, where my head will be when I'm playing & singing.)  The height helps the vocals stand out a bit but, to really overcome your 'loud' guitar; sing louder or play softer.

Think of that 'live' performance as a demo. When you want to get serious, you'll have to re-evaluate and consider recording the vox separately (or, more gear!)


Edit to add:
I've seen an engineer run a "sideways" xy for this setup. The right channel is pointed up towards the mouth and the other at the guitar.

However, I did not like the results as much as other techniques.

I did this once. The results were interesting but I have not tried it again.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2007, 02:47:47 PM by rowjimmy »
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Offline Chanher

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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2007, 02:50:10 PM »
I'm sure you know how to setup your mic (I like to fool around with various configs but x/y cards is what I've used lately) but I tend to simply set the mics back a few feet, depending on how 'live' the room is. I also orient them about head-high (that is, where my head will be when I'm playing & singing.)  The height helps the vocals stand out a bit but, to really overcome your 'loud' guitar; sing louder or play softer.

If all you have is a stereo mic then this might be your best bet IMO.
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Offline Sanjay

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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2007, 02:53:01 PM »
Excellent!  This is basically rough demos so I can find some musicians to work with around here.  I'll try both configs.

If its at head height do you think I should still try and muffle the guitar somehow?
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Offline anodyne33

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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2007, 02:56:08 PM »
Excellent!  This is basically rough demos so I can find some musicians to work with around here.  I'll try both configs.

If its at head height do you think I should still try and muffle the guitar somehow?

I wouldn't do anything that is going to change the tonality of the guitar. If you are limited to a single stereo mic (you have other pairs right?) I'd just experiment with the placement until you get it where the balance is natural.
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Offline Krispy D

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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2007, 02:57:09 PM »

If its at head height do you think I should still try and muffle the guitar somehow?

probably not neccessary
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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2007, 03:00:02 PM »
If its at head height do you think I should still try and muffle the guitar somehow?

No. After a couple takes you'll know if you're singing loud enough or if you need to lighen up your hand but, as anodyne said, you don't want to alter the tone of your guitar.  If it you can't get past it tho, send the guitar to me and i'll let you use my old Sigma...  ;)
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Offline Krispy D

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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2007, 03:01:47 PM »
If its at head height do you think I should still try and muffle the guitar somehow?

No. After a couple takes you'll know if you're singing loud enough or if you need to lighen up your hand but, as anodyne said, you don't want to alter the tone of your guitar.  If it you can't get past it tho, send the guitar to me and i'll let you use my old Sigma...  ;)

oh yeah like that's a good deal...  ;)
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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2007, 04:29:43 PM »
If its at head height do you think I should still try and muffle the guitar somehow?

No. After a couple takes you'll know if you're singing loud enough or if you need to lighen up your hand but, as anodyne said, you don't want to alter the tone of your guitar.  If it you can't get past it tho, send the guitar to me and i'll let you use my old Sigma...  ;)

Or my Breedlove isn't too loud, I could swap you too. ;)
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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2007, 04:37:21 PM »
haha my guitar is a bit road beaten.  Its 23 years young and its got its fair share of scratch and dents.  Not exactly a beaut, but I love its sound. 

What type of breedlove do you have out of curiousity.  I've always been intrigued by them.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2007, 05:24:54 PM »
haha my guitar is a bit road beaten.  Its 23 years young and its got its fair share of scratch and dents.  Not exactly a beaut, but I love its sound. 

What type of breedlove do you have out of curiousity.  I've always been intrigued by them.

I have an Atlas series. SC25 actually. It was a gift from a friend who is an acoustic guitar nut. I was in love with his 314 Taylor and this was the closest thing that he could find to the Taylor's sound at a low price point (he was working in a shop and got guitars at cost). He did have one of the actual custom shop Breedloves for a while, and I can't remember what model it was, but it never really did anything for me. It was way too mellow and very tempermental. Always in need of adjustment and very particular about what brand and gauge strings were on it. I think he ended up trading that one for a Collings or an Eggle. Conversely, there was a guy that used to record in the studio I worked at all the time with his Breedlove and I never heard it sound bad, and according to him, it always played the same. 
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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2007, 05:38:00 PM »
Excellent!  This is basically rough demos so I can find some musicians to work with around here.  I'll try both configs.

If its at head height do you think I should still try and muffle the guitar somehow?

What about doing two tracks do your acoustic parts first, then your Vocal parts. Then you have the best of both worlds its very hard to get one mic to sound very good in a studio type situation for two sources. I was was going to do it I would use an omni, but that's just me. I would not change anything with the guitar. I would also try setting up on your bed it acts as a great sound absorber and adds a lot of warmth to the sound. I would monitor with headphones so you can move the mic around and hear the changes right away. Add a bit of reverb around 2.0 sec and your in business..

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Offline Ryan Sims

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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2007, 05:54:00 PM »
Chris is right.  I find it almost always produces better results to lay separate tracks or at the very least spot mic the guitar and use an LDC as a dedicated vocal mic, hard pan and mix, monitoring with headphones.

Plus, I'm pretty sure you will run into some weird phasey type stuff using a stereo mic for vocals at the same time you're using it on the guitar.  So I'd be inclined in your case to lay down a stereo guitar track and then a mono vocal track.  I have no experience with stereo mics, but if it's possible I would just not power one of the capsules and sing into the other one.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Unamplified Guitar and Vocals
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2007, 06:21:30 PM »
I find it difficult to play and sing separately with the same musical vibe.  I used to multitrack friend's vocals and playing separately back in my 80's cassette 4-track days, but as I've progressed as an amateur musician, I find my self understanding why they would often complain about it not feeling natural or capturing the emotion of playing and singing like they normally would.

If you are only using two mics (or one stereo mic) to record and are not overdubbing, you're probably better off treating it like a 'live recording on stage' situation and mic'ing (X/Y, blumlien, whatever works best depending on your room, tone, sound balance) in front of the player (you) as discussed and trying to get a good balance of guitar & vocal.  It can be simple, effective and very natural sounding (maybe too much so if you need embelishment) ;).

I do this at home for the same type stuff playing my Taylor 514, which is not so very loud, but is still more powerful than my weak untrained voice.   I use my low-profile live mobile gear (4060>MMA6k>R-09) and tape the mics to either side of a 7" dense foam ball hung from the ceiling about midway between head and guitar.  The foam ball acts as a head sized spherical baffle and works really well for a quick no-nonsense set up for one to several acoustic players in a tight circle.  Nice sound stage as the back half of the circle flips over to the front on playback.  Alone, you can get in close for a bigger, fuller sound that eliminates more room.  Placement in the room and the room itself are important of course.  Experiment and move around.

The 'vertical X/Y' you mention works best with the mic's set to fig-8 and the null points pointed at the sound hole of the guitar and the singers mouth, respectively.  More like a 'vertical Blumlein' actually.  The whole point of doing this is to try to get as much isolation between vocals and guitar as possible so that you can treat each differently with compression, reverb, etc.  In that way it's more of a multi-tracking type technique.  Of course the best isolation without compormising mic placement is laying down separate instrumental and vocal tracks like Chris & Ryan mention.

My gear selection is currently limited, but after I find a computer interface, I plan on using the same setup as above as a main pair and adding close mics to reinforce and massage the vocal and/or guitar separately as needed.  The 'vertical Blumlein' would then be a good potential choice given it's isolation.  Perhaps a more typical card on voice and another on guitar (or guitar direct) would work too.  It may not work like I imagine, but my goal is more capturing a 'live' event happening between a couple players than assembling a tune piece by piece.  Even if you end up tracking the guitar and vox separatley, you may find it hard to adapt to playing and/or singing while listening through headphones.  It's a bit of a learned skill.  Good closed 'phones are essential in setting up and positioning you and your gear when you are playing both engineer and talent, but if it hinders your performance, get it sounding right, then ditch the phones and nail one.  You're the only one so it's not like you wont be able to hear over the drummer or something.  Put on your engineers hat and get everything set, then relax, forget about the technical stuff and catch the magic and emotion.

That's what i've been thinking anyhow, but my quirky ways & opinions don't work for everyone.  Let me know what ends up working best for you.
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