Topic: moe. outdoors w/ Oktava MC-012s; -10db pads or no?

[BradM]

I'm planning/hoping to record moe. tonight at the Ottawa Blues Festival. They're on one of the main stages, and from seeing other bands there (like the White Stripes on Sunday night), it can get pretty loud. If I end up FOB (fingers crossed, everybody), and use my Oktava MC-012 mics, will I need to use the -10db pads on them? I usually tape in clubs (capacity about 200), and am rarely more than a dozen feet from the PA, so I use the pads all the time, and have the gain on my Edirol UA-5 turned up to about 80%-90% of max (at which point the peak LED flashes every few seconds or so). But I'm thinking that outdoors, and with less gain on the UA-5, I should be OK without the pads; on the other hand, if I leave them out but realize I need them after the start of the show, I'm screwed, because I'll have to power down, take the mics apart, screw in the pads, reassemble everything, and power up/restart the recording.

The err-on-the-side-of-caution part of my personality says it'd be safer to leave them in, and turn the UA-5 up all the way if I need to, resulting in maybe a quiet recording, rather than leaving them out, and maybe getting a distorted and interrupted recording. Does anybody have any thoughts? People's experiences with moe. in similar situations with MC-012 > UA-5 would also be appreciated.

Aloha,
Brad

[Sanjay]

I think you should be fine without the pads for sure.  Outdoor shows i've never used pads with any mic.

Indoors if you are turning your UA-5 up to 90%, then you might want to revisit the idea of using pads, pads are only -10db, and if you are cranking that much gain it seems counter productive and you're likely increasing self noise unnecessarily.  You're adding much more than 10db of gain if you are turning it up to 80-90%. 

Also the pads on the Oktava's seem to have a negative effect on the sound of the mics, or so i've been told. 

[Kindguy]

You will almost never need/use those pads. Don't run them outside for moe. for sure.

[BradM]

Thanks, guys. I'll try it without them.

Aloha,
Brad

[Kindguy]

After reading your post again. Next time your in the club. Try not using the pads & run the UA-5 around 12 to 1 o'clock. I bet you have better results.

Just some friendly advice.

Good luck.

[BradM]

After reading your post again. Next time your in the club. Try not using the pads & run the UA-5 around 12 to 1 o'clock. I bet you have better results.

Thanks; there's a band (that I've taped before, a bunch of times) coming to the club I most often tape in on Aug. 1, so I'll try it without the pads. I guess that since I know/feel it's loud in that club most times I'm there, and since I get acceptable results with the pads, and since I'm almost always the only taper there, I'm a little antsy about trying something different that could (at least in my mind) go nastily wrong. (I'm also recording YMSB in Montreal [July 31] and Toronto [Aug. 2], so will try them without the pads; I'm pretty sure there'll be other tapers there, so even if I mess it up, there should be other sources.)

Aloha,
Brad

[BobW]

pads bad
I'd only use them to record a gunshot or a cannon, and very likely not even then

[Roving Sign]

pads bad
I'd only use them to record a gunshot or a cannon, and very likely not even then

Depends on the gear combination...sometimes - you just have to use them.

Something like an AKG 480 has fairly hot output...I can't run them on my Yamaha mixer without the pad...they run too hot on my dbx386 also. No way I'd run them without it...(well - unless I use the -20db pad on the dbx)

In this case - since he seems to be using a lot of gain on his pre - probably safe to go pad-less.

generally - if you find yourself running on the pre gain very low, and still have a lot peaks - you probably should try the pads.

A friend runs 480 > MP2 - He almost always has the knobs all the way down - and still the thing is peaking like crazy.  His recordings dont distort (at least nothing obvious to the ear) - but I think he might get a more musical recording if he wasnt pushing so much signal to his pre...

[Roving Sign]

It was noted in another thread - the on-mic pads are firstly to protect the mics electronics from overload. The fact that they reduce the signal the preamp sees is almost a side-effect.

It was also noted that it is best to use post-mic padding - like on your preamp. Post-mic pads reduce the signal and noise equally - so the ratio stays the same.

[BradM]

After reading your post again. Next time your in the club. Try not using the pads & run the UA-5 around 12 to 1 o'clock. I bet you have better results.

I ran it w/o the pads last night, and had the UA-5's gain set to just about that position; I had the levels a bit lower than I usually do (I don't think the peak LED ever came on), but I gave both sets (moe. and Los Lobos) a listen after the show, and they seemed to come out OK.

It was noted in another thread - the on-mic pads are firstly to protect the mics electronics from overload. The fact that they reduce the signal the preamp sees is almost a side-effect.

It was also noted that it is best to use post-mic padding - like on your preamp. Post-mic pads reduce the signal and noise equally - so the ratio stays the same.

That makes perfect sense (and hadn't occurred to me before). I'll keep that in mind from now on.

Again, thanks, everybody; gotta love a hobby that keeps you learning things.

Aloha,
Brad

[Krispy D]

I've run those mics in tons of different situations.  You will NOT need those pads out side.