Topic: getting AKG caps callibrated??

[svenkid]

TS-
I have 2 akg ck63 hypercardiod caps. one of the caps produces a significantly lower signal than the other. On the v3, I can get them to be equal if one is on gain 35 and the other on 60. Ive done tests of switching the bodies, switching the cables, using other mics to see if one v3 channel is just the only variable that is consistently bad news is the cap itself.

So, insteead of just eating a 300 plus dollar flub, I now have the idea of sending in both caps to aKG and getting them calibratred or adjusted or whateever. Has anyone done thiis and know the ptocedure, and just about how much it will cost.

[Phil Hartman]Rocketfuel malt liquor! Damn![/Phil Hartman]

[OFOTD]

TS-
I have 2 akg ck63 hypercardiod caps. one of the caps produces a significantly lower signal than the other. On the v3, I can get them to be equal if one is on gain 35 and the other on 60. Ive done tests of switching the bodies, switching the cables, using other mics to see if one v3 channel is just the only variable that is consistently bad news is the cap itself.

So, insteead of just eating a 300 plus dollar flub, I now have the idea of sending in both caps to aKG and getting them calibratred or adjusted or whateever. Has anyone done thiis and know the ptocedure, and just about how much it will cost.

[Phil Hartman]Rocketfuel malt liquor! Damn![/Phil Hartman]

I meant to PM you about this.  Hit up leehookem he has sent his in to be calibrated.   Also all the folks i've asked about the problem are all coming back with a potential moisture problem.  Any ideas on that?

[svenkid]

TS-
I have 2 akg ck63 hypercardiod caps. one of the caps produces a significantly lower signal than the other. On the v3, I can get them to be equal if one is on gain 35 and the other on 60. Ive done tests of switching the bodies, switching the cables, using other mics to see if one v3 channel is just the only variable that is consistently bad news is the cap itself.

So, insteead of just eating a 300 plus dollar flub, I now have the idea of sending in both caps to aKG and getting them calibratred or adjusted or whateever. Has anyone done thiis and know the ptocedure, and just about how much it will cost.

[Phil Hartman]Rocketfuel malt liquor! Damn![/Phil Hartman]

I meant to PM you about this.  Hit up leehookem he has sent his in to be calibrated.   Also all the folks i've asked about the problem are all coming back with a potential moisture problem.  Any ideas on that?

As far as moisture, A) wouldnt it then affect both caps? perhaps not, Im still a mic n00b. and B) the foam stuffs inside the pelican case appear to be fine and firm. My old AKG mic cases had foam that was definately suspect, but the mics then came with the ck61 caps, and both ran fine.

[F.O.Bean]

damn Carl, thats quite the db diff

hope everything works out....

[Chuck]

Yeah, they should be closer than that.

[china_rider]

They should defiantly be closer.  My 63s along with most of the others are no more than a db off.  The worst is the 62s which are almost 1.5db apart which is sort of funny since the serials are almost consecutive and closer than the others.

As for moisture, the pelican cases are supposed to vent humidity type moisture from travel.  If somehow a cap got wet I could see a difference that would probably go away if it dried out.  Unless it was some sort of liquid that left a residue.

I'd do a search of the site... I remember seeing several posts maybe 6 months ago about cleaning caps.  While you may not want to goto the trouble of cleaning the caps I remember steps for drying them out afterwards.  I could be wrong but I think chris church and guy sonic were a big part of the thread I am remembering.

One note... I may be over cautious but I bought a crapload of silica gel packs for about $5 and keep them from  everything that comes with electronics I buy.  When storing my mics I place a pack directly on top of the cap before closing the case.  The packs absorb moisture from anything they are around.
 

[Church-Audio]

TS-
I have 2 akg ck63 hypercardiod caps. one of the caps produces a significantly lower signal than the other. On the v3, I can get them to be equal if one is on gain 35 and the other on 60. Ive done tests of switching the bodies, switching the cables, using other mics to see if one v3 channel is just the only variable that is consistently bad news is the cap itself.

So, insteead of just eating a 300 plus dollar flub, I now have the idea of sending in both caps to aKG and getting them calibratred or adjusted or whateever. Has anyone done thiis and know the ptocedure, and just about how much it will cost.

[Phil Hartman]Rocketfuel malt liquor! Damn![/Phil Hartman]

Your low output cap is bad.. anything more then 20 db is way out of spec. I would suggest at this point in time just asking if they can put a new diaphragm in the capsule or if it would be cheaper just to replace it all together.... It sounds like your capsule has a partial short in it. Calibrating a already bad mic is a waste of time.. You need to replace it.. Is the mic that is lower noisy?? does it make any sounds.. That are not part of the acoustic signal?

Chris

[Nick's Picks]

agreed...a few db off is normal.  20db is f*cked up, and badly.
I'd send it to someone for a look over, see what they have to say and then cross those bridges.

[OFOTD]

A little background on the caps.  The caps came to me within a bigger sale.  After I got them I plugged them into the V3 to test just to make sue everything worked fine.  Powered up, made a few test files recording my home stereo.  Perfect working order.  I did not see if they were within a db of each other but I would have immediately noticed if they were anymore than 5db off since I had the V3 set at the same levels for both mics.  So at the very least they were within 5db of each other.   Yes I know how to use the V3, power on, power off, etc. 

I put them in the Pelican (1060 I think) wrapped them up in a ton of bubble wrap and they were off. Worked and verified when they left Texas. Carl got them a few days later.  I don't think he used them for the first time for a couple of months.   So I am really perplexed as well.  If it was moisture why would only one be affected?   Shipping and handling shouldn't have been a problem from the Pelican and the loads of bubble wrap I used. 

Otherwise I am stumped. 

[Church-Audio]

A little background on the caps.  The caps came to me within a bigger sale.  After I got them I plugged them into the V3 to test just to make sue everything worked fine.  Powered up, made a few test files recording my home stereo.  Perfect working order.  I did not see if they were within a db of each other but I would have immediately noticed if they were anymore than 5db off since I had the V3 set at the same levels for both mics.  So at the very least they were within 5db of each other.   Yes I know how to use the V3, power on, power off, etc. 

I put them in the Pelican (1060 I think) wrapped them up in a ton of bubble wrap and they were off. Worked and verified when they left Texas. Carl got them a few days later.  I don't think he used them for the first time for a couple of months.   So I am really perplexed as well.  If it was moisture why would only one be affected?   Shipping and handling shouldn't have been a problem from the Pelican and the loads of bubble wrap I used. 

Otherwise I am stumped. 

Antistatic bubble wrap? I hope...... An open ended capsule is susceptible to static discharge... And that would make the capsule lose output sure as shit.

Chris

[OFOTD]

A little background on the caps.  The caps came to me within a bigger sale.  After I got them I plugged them into the V3 to test just to make sue everything worked fine.  Powered up, made a few test files recording my home stereo.  Perfect working order.  I did not see if they were within a db of each other but I would have immediately noticed if they were anymore than 5db off since I had the V3 set at the same levels for both mics.  So at the very least they were within 5db of each other.   Yes I know how to use the V3, power on, power off, etc. 

I put them in the Pelican (1060 I think) wrapped them up in a ton of bubble wrap and they were off. Worked and verified when they left Texas. Carl got them a few days later.  I don't think he used them for the first time for a couple of months.   So I am really perplexed as well.  If it was moisture why would only one be affected?   Shipping and handling shouldn't have been a problem from the Pelican and the loads of bubble wrap I used. 

Otherwise I am stumped. 

Antistatic bubble wrap? I hope...... An open ended capsule is susceptible to static discharge... And that would make the capsule lose output sure as shit.

Chris

The UPS Store bubble wrap.  The caps were secure in a closed and sealed Pelican case so I have ABSOLUTELY NO WORRIES about if the bubble wrap was antistatic or not.   Interesting thought though.

[Church-Audio]

A little background on the caps.  The caps came to me within a bigger sale.  After I got them I plugged them into the V3 to test just to make sue everything worked fine.  Powered up, made a few test files recording my home stereo.  Perfect working order.  I did not see if they were within a db of each other but I would have immediately noticed if they were anymore than 5db off since I had the V3 set at the same levels for both mics.  So at the very least they were within 5db of each other.   Yes I know how to use the V3, power on, power off, etc. 

I put them in the Pelican (1060 I think) wrapped them up in a ton of bubble wrap and they were off. Worked and verified when they left Texas. Carl got them a few days later.  I don't think he used them for the first time for a couple of months.   So I am really perplexed as well.  If it was moisture why would only one be affected?   Shipping and handling shouldn't have been a problem from the Pelican and the loads of bubble wrap I used. 

Otherwise I am stumped. 

Antistatic bubble wrap? I hope...... An open ended capsule is susceptible to static discharge... And that would make the capsule lose output sure as shit.

Chris

The UPS Store bubble wrap.  The caps were secure in a closed and sealed Pelican case so I have ABSOLUTELY NO WORRIES about if the bubble wrap was antistatic or not.   Interesting thought though.

Well if the capsules were fine before they shipped and now after there were shipped I would suspect the lack of static protection on the capsules as being a possibility. The other possibility is heat. It can deform the capsule diaphragm and cause it to lose output... I am just throwing some ideas around...
And the pelican case does not have antistatic foam... Unless you replaced it. were the capsules not attached to the mic body or did you sell just the capsules?

Chris

[OFOTD]

Well if the capsules were fine before they shipped and now after there were shipped I would suspect the lack of static protection on the capsules as being a possibility. The other possibility is heat. It can deform the capsule diaphragm and cause it to lose output... I am just throwing some ideas around...
And the pelican case does not have antistatic foam... Unless you replaced it. were the capsules not attached to the mic body or did you sell just the capsules?

Chris

Just the caps.   On the static issue I take that kinda of like how you took the cable issue.  Snake oil.  I followed the thread about the foam but in all the discussion here and on other forums I could not find one true instance of the static from a Pelican case causing problems.   Several people started freaking out about the static foam issue but not one had that cause the problem.  So theoretically we assume it could happen but until there is an actual case or a pattern I am skeptical of static.  Static to me is just the current buzz word right now.

My initial thoughts were more towards cable issues (cold solder joint, bend/pinch in the cable, etc.) or possibly the phantom not kicking in on the V3.  Again just shooting ideas around.

EDIT: Regarding heat I do not know the process UPS puts their packages through nor do I know how they were handled upon arrival.  I know Carl was in the process of moving at the time so.....

[Church-Audio]

Well if the capsules were fine before they shipped and now after there were shipped I would suspect the lack of static protection on the capsules as being a possibility. The other possibility is heat. It can deform the capsule diaphragm and cause it to lose output... I am just throwing some ideas around...
And the pelican case does not have antistatic foam... Unless you replaced it. were the capsules not attached to the mic body or did you sell just the capsules?

Chris

Just the caps.   On the static issue I take that kinda of like how you took the cable issue.  Snake oil.  I followed the thread about the foam but in all the discussion here and on other forums I could not find one true instance of the static from a Pelican case causing problems.   Several people started freaking out about the static foam issue but not one had that cause the problem.  So theoretically we assume it could happen but until there is an actual case or a pattern I am skeptical of static.  Static to me is just the current buzz word right now.

My initial thoughts were more towards cable issues (cold solder joint, bend/pinch in the cable, etc.) or possibly the phantom not kicking in on the V3.  Again just shooting ideas around.

EDIT: Regarding heat I do not know the process UPS puts their packages through nor do I know how they were handled upon arrival.  I know Carl was in the process of moving at the time so.....

One way to find out how much static is "snake oil" build up a nice static charge and touch the center pin on one of your nice capsules.. We will see whats snake oil or not I never said all cables were snake oil. I just got some from Nickspicks and they are quite nice. And I do like the sound of them... I dont make this stuff up... I would say that just because no one has found a static discharge to create problems.. Does not mean it has not happened... How does one know when a capsule goes bad all of a sudden that the problem has not been static discharge?? Also one simple test would be to switch the capsules from one body to another if the low output follows the capsule.. Well then its the capsule not a pinched wire or bad phantom power. Just my two cents..

Chris

[OFOTD]

I would say that just because no one has found a static discharge to create problems.. Does not mean it has not happened... How does one know when a capsule goes bad all of a sudden that the problem has not been static discharge?? Also one simple test would be to switch the capsules from one body to another if the low output follows the capsule.. Well then its the capsule not a pinched wire or bad phantom power.

I totally agree with all the above.   The static issue is just one that I would like to see a verified case of it first. 

[Church-Audio]

I would say that just because no one has found a static discharge to create problems.. Does not mean it has not happened... How does one know when a capsule goes bad all of a sudden that the problem has not been static discharge?? Also one simple test would be to switch the capsules from one body to another if the low output follows the capsule.. Well then its the capsule not a pinched wire or bad phantom power.

I totally agree with all the above.   The static issue is just one that I would like to see a verified case of it first. 

The problem is that often capsules do go bad but no one knows why.. I feel in "SOME" cases its static discharge. There are other reasons I have found.. First dropping a AKG or any other type of capsule on the ground and changing the shape of the mic housing "stretches" the diaphragm and causes a low output, I have also see mics that were used on stage and placed as drum overheads fail due to heat from a lighting fixture because the Mylar was stretched. I have also seen mics fail because of debris on the mic diaphragm shorting the surface plating of the Mylar to ground. The other way is a the diaphragm loses its permanent charge on the diaphragm.  And last but not least the "mystery" failure of static discharge. What else could it be? I dont have the answer but I assume its static. I dont want to expairiment on an expensive capsule to find out

[svenkid]

good discussion. I definately switched bodies and cables around, and the cap was the consistant problem peice.

[Church-Audio]

good discussion. I definately switched bodies and cables around, and the cap was the consistant problem peice.

I assumed you did this not being your first "pick-nick" There is one other thing to check that the special large nut on the back of the capsule has not loosened up. Its a huge lock ring affair on the back of the capsule it has two small holes in it. In most cases this gets lose and changes the spacing between the diaphragm and back plate and this does lower the output. Send me a picture of the back of the capsule if you have some time..

Chris

[svenkid]

thanks for all the replies, as it turns out the bad cap has a crack in it in the part where sound gets picked up.

[ttrego2003]

having the same problem, same db difference also.

[leehookem]

The caps I had problems with were really old.  Moisture was the culprit.  I sent the to AKG and both had to be replaced.  Cost $250 to reskin them both. 

[Church-Audio]

The caps I had problems with were really old.  Moisture was the culprit.  I sent the to AKG and both had to be replaced.  Cost $250 to reskin them both. 

Thats cheap compaired to what they would be to replace and your getting a brand new microphone..

Chris

[leehookem]

exactly!  That's cheaper that one brand new cap.

[svenkid]

Im still trying to get a high-def. camera to take a picture of the incident to send to church-audio and OFOTD

[NOLAfishwater]

The caps I had problems with were really old.  Moisture was the culprit.  I sent the to AKG and both had to be replaced.  Cost $250 to reskin them both. 

So if the mics are really old like the ones I bought, then it might be best to send them off to Land Audio Services. Should I send the bodies as well? What about a JK Mod on the bodies? Is it worth it? Anyone have any experiences good or bad?

[micdoc1]

Hello,

My name is Richard Land, I am the owner of Land Audio Services in Hendersonville TN. I am the authorized repair center in the US for AKG.  I was also their lead tech in Nashville for 7 years before they moved back to CA.  Anyway, you cannot calibrate the CK63 capsules and they do not have an electrical charge on them.  If the capsule goes bad the only fix is to replace it.  But, if you only replace one then the other one will probably sound bad, I say this because I have replaced capsules for other people who have 2 or more C460, C451's and C480's, and after they get the fixed one back they send the others in.  I can be contacted at 615-338-4443 Mon. thru Thur. until 5:00pm central and 4:00pm central on Friday.

Thanks,

Richard Land
Land Audio Services