Topic: Revised: Bake-Off -- Busman PMD-660 vs. Oade WCM Fostex FR-2LE

[stevetoney]

I've revised this post...details have been posted later in this thread...

******************

Could any kind people out there please download these files and give me their honest feedback on what you think about the results?  These are one minute long sound samples from a recent show that I attended where I used all of my equipment.

My only request is to please don't use any electronic analysis tools...just use your ears and let me know which you feel sounds better.

Which sounds better and why?

Sample 1  http://www.mediafire.com/?3nynzdzhdcy
  - or -
Sample 2  http://www.mediafire.com/?50ms2cdzdt3


Which sounds better and why?

Sample 3  http://www.mediafire.com/?0jdjztxxhy4
 - or -
Sample 4  http://www.mediafire.com/?e2n4xe11idn


Which sounds better and why?

Sample 1
 - or -
Sample 4


Which sounds better and why?

Sample 2
 - or -
Sample 3


Thank you.  I will provide details of the four samples this same time tomorrow, or thereabouts.

Paying +T's forward to anyone that responds.

[sleepypedro]

1 vs 2
i definitely prefer #2.  #1 much too bright for my tastes. 

the bass response of #2 sounds fuller, more natural.  that's how i like my girls and that's how i like my audio.

3 vs 4
definitely prefer #3.  #4 sounds muddy to me in the midrange.

1 vs 4
definitely #1. good a/d converter used in #1, minidisc a/d used in #4?

2 vs 3
definitely #2.  good a/d converter used in #2.  a/d converter in #3 sounds better than #4 in previous test, but image not as defined as #2 (or #1 in previous test)

[F.O.Bean]

So far, I agree with Peter. #2 sounds better in the lowend and has better cymbal splashes as well. Much more full and rich sounding than #1. #1 is just too bright for my tastes

moving on to 3/4 now. will report back

[F.O.Bean]

I would love to listen to these, but mediafire fuckin sucks.  you think you could up these on yousendit or medaupload or sendspace?

why? I d/l'd them with ease Murph!

[stevetoney]

I was hoping to get a couple more listens, but no interest, I guess.  Thanks anyway, Pedro and Bean.

Here's the details:

Sample 1: 
AKG483 > FR-2LE @ 24/48 > Audition (bumped levels 8 db) > FLAC

Sample 2:
KM184 > PMD-660 @ 16/44.1 > Audition (bumped levels 3 db) > FLAC

Sample 3:
AKG483 > PMD-660 @ 16/44.1 > Audition (bumped levels 3 db) > FLAC

Sample 4:
KM184 > FR-2LE @ 24/48 > Audition (bumped levels 8 db) > FLAC

Surprised that I thought the 660 sounded better at 16 bit with the 184s than any other configuration...16 or 24 bit. 

Pedro's notes agree with my findings.  Pretty much convinced myself though that my rigs are gonna be 184s through the 660 and AKGs though the FR-2LE.

{Sorry Murph, not enough interest to bother reposting.  If you want to listen to compare with what you got that night, go ahead and use Mediafire.}

[F.O.Bean]

Thanks Steve. BTW, what show was this?

[stevetoney]

Thanks Steve. BTW, what show was this?

GMob at the T-Bird, a week ago Saturday night.  I only stayed for their first set, so didn't get the whole show.  Wanted to give the Fostex a spin before heading overseas.

[Will_S]

Interesting that the differences between mics with the same recorder (1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3) were perceived as differences in the A/D by a blind listener...

[F.O.Bean]

personally, Id be happy with either copy in 3 or 4. 1 was def too thin for my tastes, but 3 or 4 were both good, just different!

Hmmm, we'll have to redo this test when I get a Busman 'Vintage Mod' fr2-le. I planned on running my 483's>vintage fr2le, but its a bit on the thin side. Wonder if the Vintage Mod will sound alot diff or fuller with the 483's

[danzz1234]

I heard this before you edit your post (doesn't matter as I'm not familiar with all those mics and recorders), and I thought that #2 was the best.

[eclark]

yeah i think they sound the best in this order: 2, 3, 1, 4

damn that mod660 sounds GREAT!!! i really should have given that thing a chance 

nice thread though, the short (~1 minute) samples make it really easy to do the comparison. also steve, just fyi, im not buying those mics from that guy but i appreciate the shipping offer. have fun in slovenia!

[stevetoney]

personally, Id be happy with either copy in 3 or 4. 1 was def too thin for my tastes, but 3 or 4 were both good, just different!

Hmmm, we'll have to redo this test when I get a Busman 'Vintage Mod' fr2-le. I planned on running my 483's>vintage fr2le, but its a bit on the thin side. Wonder if the Vintage Mod will sound alot diff or fuller with the 483's

Hey Bean, you're experienced at this.  Question for ya...

As you can see from my notes, I had to bump the levels quite a bit in post on the Fostex samples.  Would this cause the recording to lose a little, even though I recorded in 24/48? 

Just wondering...I'll for sure run the Fostex hotter next show to see if the results might sound fuller.

[stevetoney]

yeah i think they sound the best in this order: 2, 3, 1, 4

damn that mod660 sounds GREAT!!! i really should have given that thing a chance 

nice thread though, the short (~1 minute) samples make it really easy to do the comparison. also steve, just fyi, im not buying those mics from that guy but i appreciate the shipping offer. have fun in slovenia!

Thanks for the reply Emery. 

Sorry it's not working out for the mics.  I'm gonna reserve a HQ bottle of beer especially for you to celebrate on the day that I get a PM from you that says you finally got your mics!

[F.O.Bean]

personally, Id be happy with either copy in 3 or 4. 1 was def too thin for my tastes, but 3 or 4 were both good, just different!

Hmmm, we'll have to redo this test when I get a Busman 'Vintage Mod' fr2-le. I planned on running my 483's>vintage fr2le, but its a bit on the thin side. Wonder if the Vintage Mod will sound alot diff or fuller with the 483's

Hey Bean, you're experienced at this.  Question for ya...

As you can see from my notes, I had to bump the levels quite a bit in post on the Fostex samples.  Would this cause the recording to lose a little, even though I recorded in 24/48? 

Just wondering...I'll for sure run the Fostex hotter next show to see if the results might sound fuller.

doubtful, especially at 24/48..........

[Javier Cinakowski]

I got mediafire to work. 

4 sounded the most like my recording I think.  Sounds just like my peluso->oade sc 660 in the midrange....
I think 4 is the most musical and warm, but the clarity is not as good as the other tracks..  interesting comp.

if anyone wants to comp my peluso->oade sc 660 go here.   tonedeaf sample 1-2 = d1t04      -    tonedeaf sample 3-4= d1t01
http://www.archive.org/details/gmob2007-09-08.peluso

[Jammin72]

This is interesting.

The thing that would interest me the most is re-doing a similar comparison after finding the "just exactly perfect" trim levels for the mics on the way to the recorder. {edit} on the FR2-LE

Having those set just below clipping and the recorder opened up a bit more can very well be the answer to fattening up the tone.

[newplanet7]

Tone Deaf,
When you recorded with the 660 did you have the -20 pad on?

[stevetoney]

Tone Deaf,
When you recorded with the 660 did you have the -20 pad on?

Absolutely!  At least I can say that with the Busman mod 660, there was no way to run the box without the pad engaged at a normal volume amplified electric instrument show.  

I had a conversation with one member and this bothered him quite a bit.  His feeling was that this meant that he wasn't getting full use of the features offered by his 660.  Frankly I couldn't see that logic because I was getting perfect recordings with the pad engaged.  I guess the other person figured that the gain of the 'normal' setting should have been correct for the volume levels in the clubs.

Anyhow, I figured that with the pad engaged, that gave me plenty of workable range to engage the normal setting if I ever needed to do softer volume acoustic shows, or maybe even nature recording and such.

[newplanet7]

Gracias.
I have the same one.
Did you still run all greens or hit orange with it engaged?
+t

[stevetoney]

Gracias.
I have the same one.
Did you still run all greens or hit orange with it engaged?
+t

I ran it pretty hot, but I had to be careful because I did get some distortion running too high.  I tried to be peaking with an occasional red light, as I recall.  When I wsa peaking with two red lights fairly consistently, that's when I was in trouble.  It didn't ruin the recording, but you can hear some breakup (listen to my Umphrey's show from Riverfest on archive for an example).  Otherwise, my moe. show from last years all good would be an example of what I got when I ran with only an occasional red light.  (can't remember the dates for either of these shows, but you can search 'tonedeaf' on archive and find them).

[newplanet7]

Thanks!