Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: bgalizio on June 22, 2008, 08:03:00 PM
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Continuation of this thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,100541.0.html
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What have people been using for levels on the deck? Anyone seeing any issues like with the R09 and having to run the "unity setting of 8"?
I have run mine once, but I had wind issues which makes it a poor test :(
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,100541.msg1400415.html#msg1400415
Hope that helps ;)
And please keep in mind that my test was only to see what R-09HR level approximated the level 8 setting of the R-09. I did not measure anything more specific to determine "unity gain" or anything like that.
I have kept that in mind, and ran my 1 show based on your results... but with the wind noise, it was a bad run :(
I hope to sneak into a club show this week to test it out
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What have people been using for levels on the deck? Anyone seeing any issues like with the R09 and having to run the "unity setting of 8"?
I have run mine once, but I had wind issues which makes it a poor test :(
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,100541.msg1400415.html#msg1400415
Hope that helps ;)
And please keep in mind that my test was only to see what R-09HR level approximated the level 8 setting of the R-09. I did not measure anything more specific to determine "unity gain" or anything like that.
I have kept that in mind, and ran my 1 show based on your results... but with the wind noise, it was a bad run :(
I hope to sneak into a club show this week to test it out
My R09HR will be around in two days :realhappy:
I'll run a few tests myself.
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What have people been using for levels on the deck? Anyone seeing any issues like with the R09 and having to run the "unity setting of 8"?
I have run mine once, but I had wind issues which makes it a poor test :(
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,100541.msg1400415.html#msg1400415
Hope that helps ;)
And please keep in mind that my test was only to see what R-09HR level approximated the level 8 setting of the R-09. I did not measure anything more specific to determine "unity gain" or anything like that.
I have kept that in mind, and ran my 1 show based on your results... but with the wind noise, it was a bad run :(
I hope to sneak into a club show this week to test it out
Bummer on the wind noise :( I just want to make sure R-09HR owners don't use my level 35 setting as absolute truth, since my test was just to approximate the R-09 @ 8 gain. It's at least a good starting point, though! :)
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Bummer on the wind noise :( I just want to make sure R-09HR owners don't use my level 35 setting as absolute truth, since my test was just to approximate the R-09 @ 8 gain. It's at least a good starting point, though! :)
Yea, the wind did suck... no forecast for wind, and none in the lot... 2 min before show time, out of no where, 10-15 mph winds, it sucked! Windscreens already in the car :(
And I know it, 34-35 on the volume, was a starting point, but I was OK with that!
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My R09HR arrived last night :realhappy:
Way more solid than the R-09 ;). I'll give it a try tonight.
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I'll be running mine tonight, too. :)
A couple of obvious differences between the R-09 and the R-09HR.
The HR is about a half inch longer than the R-09.
The HR's larger screen is much easier on "old-people" eyes.
I'm not sure I care for the HR's new battery location/door.
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can anyone explain to this ludite why the HR has a 'Limiter/AGC' manual switch on the back, and on the 'Menu > Input Set Up > Limter/AGC' as well ? Is the manual to overide in the field, on the fly, or what?
Can't figure this.
And I keep getting too much bass on my recordings too.
Set BB at 95 which seems to please most folk, but think I must set over 100 for some of these pub bands I've been taping maybe, as their volume levels are pretty thunderous !
Any help appreciated (as ever).
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can anyone explain to this ludite why the HR has a 'Limiter/AGC' manual switch on the back, and on the 'Menu > Input Set Up > Limter/AGC' as well ? Is the manual to overide in the field, on the fly, or what?
Can't figure this.
And I keep getting too much bass on my recordings too.
Set BB at 95 which seems to please most folk, but think I must set over 100 for some of these pub bands I've been taping maybe, as their volume levels are pretty thunderous !
Any help appreciated (as ever).
The R-09 has only the AGC switch on the back. My conclusion: now you have the Limiter feature ( besides AGC) so you can choose in advance which feature you might need in a particular ocasion and use the back switch if necessary to turn it on or off. But trust me: you don´t want these features to tape live music. It's not a good idea. ;)
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can anyone explain to this ludite why the HR has a 'Limiter/AGC' manual switch on the back, and on the 'Menu > Input Set Up > Limter/AGC' as well ? Is the manual to overide in the field, on the fly, or what?
Can't figure this.
And I keep getting too much bass on my recordings too.
Set BB at 95 which seems to please most folk, but think I must set over 100 for some of these pub bands I've been taping maybe, as their volume levels are pretty thunderous !
Any help appreciated (as ever).
The R-09 has only the AGC switch on the back. My conclusion: now you have the Limiter feature ( besides AGC) so you can choose in advance which feature you might need in a particular ocasion and use the back switch if necessary to turn it on or off. But trust me: you don´t want these features to tape live music. It's not a good idea. ;)
The internal setting (not the switch on the back) only gives you two options - LIMITER / AGC. One or the other. ???
And what about the "Low Cut Frequency"? How should I have that set? 100? 200? Or 400?
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so which setting should I use for live music, I'm confused.
Presently, my rig is set thus :
Manual (on back) switch set to 'Off' Menu option is set to 'Limiter' - the options being either 'Limiter or AGC' which one should the internal menu option be set to for live music ?
I'm figuring that I got the back set right.
AS for the low cut freq, then yep, wonder what best setting is for that. Recorded 6 shows now at 200, is that the best for loud club gigs ?
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Okay . . . so long as the "low freq." switch on the back is set to "off," you don't have to worry about the internal settings.
Same goes for the "limiter/agc" setting.
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Okay . . . so long as the "low freq." switch on the back is set to "off," you don't have to worry about the internal settings.
Same goes for the "limiter/agc" setting.
Yes, absolutely.
Good luck tonight. That will be my first time with the R09HR too. ;)
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Just checking in.
I'm waiting to hear what the (mic in) noise level on this thing is. Is it any quieter than the R09. Oh yeah, I need to know the voltage and source resistor on plug-in-power too.
My application is a superstealth rig running mics (eg., Sennheiser KE4) directly from plug-in-power.
Thanks,
Richard
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My first recording with the R09HR, last night.
Crappy band, terrible location, awfull house sound ( I hate this particular sound man, he obviously despises music >:D). I love the results.
No, the R09HR is not a miracle recorder. But that was the best recording of a bad sound performance ever :yack: I am really impressed with the R09HR warmth and above all things, how it handles the bass. My first impression ( when performing a side by side comparison with the R-09) was that the R09HR had more bass. Period. Well, it's more than that. The new machine has a more pronounced AND controlled bass. Round sounding and not at all big and rumble. Last night I used both my cards (HLSC-1)
and omnis (HLSO-micro). Both gave me a glorious crappy band, terrible location, awfull house sound
recording.
BTW, it was mics>bb>R09HR. No ST-9100 this time. It was a test for the R09HR alone, of course.
I'm looking forward for a good band, great location and great house sound show ( next Saturday I think).
I´m happy ;D
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My evening didn't quite go as planned . . . .
Didn't record @ 24/96. In fact, didn't record at 24/48.
I made the mistake of upgrading to Version 1.4 minutes before I left for the show.
I didn't realize that would change all my internal settings.
Kinda disappointed when I got home and realized my files were all 16/44, but it's still a nice sounding recording.
I'll be running 24/96 Friday. :)
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Has anyone using a Mac upgraded to V1.4 yet? I am a bit of a computer idiot so the solution could be obvious.
I can't figure out what application to open the update with. Adobe reader doesn't like it that is for sure. I also got a blank black screen each time I tried to view the readme pdf on Roland's site.
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Has anyone using a Mac upgraded to V1.4 yet? I am a bit of a computer idiot so the solution could be obvious.
I can't figure out what application to open the update with. Adobe reader doesn't like it that is for sure. I also got a blank black screen each time I tried to view the readme pdf on Roland's site.
Doesn't matter what computer you're on, as the update is run from the R-09HR. I've attached the pdf with instructions. You need to follow those to update.
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My evening didn't quite go as planned . . . .
Didn't record @ 24/96. In fact, didn't record at 24/48.
I made the mistake of upgrading to Version 1.4 minutes before I left for the show.
I didn't realize that would change all my internal settings.
Kinda disappointed when I got home and realized my files were all 16/44, but it's still a nice sounding recording.
I'll be running 24/96 Friday. :)
In all honesty, for a live recording of a band, it's highly unlikely that it will make any noticeable difference. 24/96 is just a huge waste of bandwidth/RAM unless you are recording bats IMO :)
Make some A/B comparisons at home, make two recordings 16/44.1 and 24/96 of the same noise (your stereo, a ticking clock, ambiance) and have a significant other play them to you 10 times each in random order. Blindfolded you write down what was what. Did you score significantly better than chance?
digifish
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And what about the "Low Cut Frequency"? How should I have that set? 100? 200? Or 400?
I use low-cut when I am concerned about wind noise, or mechanical rumble (like recording on a bus) or know I am bout to be overwhelmed with bass (like I am sitting next to a sub). 100 Hz would be my pick. 200 and 400 are way too high if you are recording music. Although, it all depends on the source and location. Let your ears be your guide.
Generally leave it off form music recording or 100 Hz if you prefer the sound or are nervous about too much bass.
digifish
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Has anyone using a Mac upgraded to V1.4 yet? I am a bit of a computer idiot so the solution could be obvious.
I can't figure out what application to open the update with. Adobe reader doesn't like it that is for sure. I also got a blank black screen each time I tried to view the readme pdf on Roland's site.
Doesn't matter what computer you're on, as the update is run from the R-09HR. I've attached the pdf with instructions. You need to follow those to update.
Thanks for the pdf, that is just what I needed. I'm off to try my first recording with this newfangled gadget tonight, hope it goes well.
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I just got done testing a 16GB A-Data class 6 SDHC card. Ran it using a fesh pair of Energizer "standard" alkaline batteries. Card formatted on the r09hr. I got 5 hrs 15 min at 24/96, appears flawless, even stopped/started 4 times. No "slow card" errors. I haven't updated, so I'm running v1.03 firmware. I do the same with my PNY 16GB class 6 SDHC card tomorrow.
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Have had my R-09HR for about a month now, and use it with Sonic Studios DSM mics and preamp.
The results sound fine. The battery compartment door is a bit rubbish, and the R-09HR is generally much less solid-feeling than the Olympus LS-10 (but the Line-in sensitivity is good/useful, unlike the LS-10).
Managed to drop it about a foot onto a tabletop, causing a crack to appear in the clear plastic panel on the front, oops. Don't buy Roland's own case for it, it's rubbish. For the half the price a SatNav case from PC World does a better job.
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OK I now have both the R09 and R09HR...first impressions of the on-board mics compared to the R09 are big improvement in self-noise...the internal mics may even be usable for ambiences...I'll post some comparisons of both doing field-recording soon. As others have said, feels better made and IMO probably how the R09 should have been in the first place (particularly from an internal mic quality perspective).
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_R09-R09HR.jpg)
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_R09-R09HR_top.jpg)
digifish
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OK, here's some comparative recordings from the internal mics...
Settings -
Low cut off.
WAV @ 44.1 kHz / 24 bit
ACG off
R09 Level = 15 (50%)
R09HR Level = 40 (50%)
Recording levels both looked equivalent (max ~ -15 dB)
Recordings post normalized.
Recording environment-
Me mucking around in my kitchen with a spoon and glass.
The recorders were side-by-side with about 3 cm separating them on the kitchen bench. Both facing the source of the sound (me).
Download a 320 kbps mp3 of the event here ~ 0.9 Meg (http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/sounds/R09vsR09HR_KitchenTest.mp3)
The recording is spliced R09-R09HR-etc as shown below, if you are wearing headphones you should be able to clearly hear the change. The times of the cuts are at ~ 5, 11, 15, 19 & 21 seconds.
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_R09vsR09HR_KitchenTest.jpg)
So the R09HR mics sound a considerably quieter than the R09 on internal mics, the R09HR now approaches what I would call acceptable noise for recording fairly quiet sources, while the original R09 is only suitable for loud sources (IMO). However there's still a fair amount of hiss on the HR. You can also see from the image above that there is less digital noise in the R09HR recording (note the 13.4 kHz line in the R09 sections, although this is not audible unless near silence is normalised).
For recording solo instruments, small groups/ensembles the internal mics on the R09HR would be quite capable, apart from the lack of placement flexibility.
The R09HR mic and line-in are both quieter than the R09 (which was very good using either), I'll post some more details later. I plan to use the R09HR with a MixPre for critical field recordings OR R09HR-plugin-powered binaurals for stealth field-recording (home made Panasonic WM-61A caps or similar Sound Professionals).
digifish
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The R09HR mic and line-in are both quieter than the R09 (which was very good using either), I'll post some more details later. I plan to use the R09HR with a MixPre for critical field recordings OR R09HR-plugin-powered binaurals for stealth field-recording (home made Panasonic WM-61A caps or similar Sound Professionals).
digifish
Hey, thanks for the great post!
I'm *very* curious if that diginoise appears on mic or line in. You're going to run the tests with binaurals on mic in, right? I want to check both artifacts and pre noise. This would be an excellent test.
Richard
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I'm *very* curious if that diginoise appears on mic or line in. You're going to run the tests with binaurals on mic in, right?
Richard
Will do...tomorrow.
digifish
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Digifish thanks for all the great info and the pics!!!
If you find sometime could you be also so kind to post a silent recording using line in?
I'm still waiting to see if the HR has less selfnoise than the PMD620 and H2
Thanks
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Well I have had the r09hr for a little more than 3 weeks now and managed to get about 30 hours of run time on it.
I patched with it, took board feeds with it, ran with a pre amp and external mics, and ran with the internal mics. All without any problems :)
A few observations...
Likes
--Better build quality, input jacks are thru soldiered to the PCB
--Better display screen, larger and much easier to see
--I like the finer resolution on the level controls
--While it pretty much sounds like crap, the internal speaker does some have value for reference in the field
--I think the internal mics sound better than the r09, even though I don't really plan on using them
--I think the new battery door/ placement is an improvement?
--As best as I can tell, I think the overall sound for line-in is better than the R09
--It's easy to disassemble and reassemble ;)
Dislikes
-- I don't like the hold button being on the back
--Not to keen on the placement of the input jacks in relation to the level buttons (kind of awkward to adjust the levels when using a RA jack)
--Not to sure about the new battery door, seems like it could be lost easily
Overall, I am happy with the R09hr. The only thing I think I might do to it is take it apart again and remove the plastic sliders for all of the switches on the back except for the "hold" button so that one, it will be easy to find the hold button when running undercover, and two it would eliminate the chance of accidentally flipping any of the other switchs.
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Dislikes
--Not to sure about the new battery door, seems like it could be lost easily
Overall, I am happy with the R09hr. The only thing I think I might do to it is take it apart again and remove the plastic sliders for all of the switches on the back except for the "hold" button so that one, it will be easy to find the hold button when running undercover, and two it would eliminate the chance of accidentally flipping any of the other switchs.
Nice summary +T
Poor Edirol, they just can't win with the battery door :) We all thought the R09 door was going to break...but I don't think anyone ever reported an issue...and now they 'fix' it and we are all complaining about the possibility of losing it :o
About the switches, you could just put some electrical tape over the ones you don't want to use?
digifish
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About the switches, you could just put some electrical tape over the ones you don't want to use?
I suppose I could. I'm thinking that the tape over time might remove the silk-screened lettering around the switches.
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Digifish thanks for all the great info and the pics!!!
If you find sometime could you be also so kind to post a silent recording using line in?
I'm still waiting to see if the HR has less selfnoise than the PMD620 and H2
Thanks
OK here's some spectrograms...frequency-histograms to follow. The HR is demonstrably quieter as you would expect.
Method: possibly flawed... :)
R09 & HR (mic power off, mic gain high setting, displays on 50%, low-cut off, acg/limiters off) connected to the unbalanced (tape) output of a MixPre (on, all levels set to zero) recordings made as follows...
The spectrograms span 20 Hz bottom to 20,000 Hz top.
Microphone inputs
100%
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_09vsHR_Mic100.jpg)
50%
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_09vsHR_Mic50.jpg)
Line inputs
100%
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_09vsHR_Line100.jpg)
50%
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_09vsHR_Line50.jpg)
digifish
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Interesting.
The pics give a nice impression of the differences.
For absolute figures we might have to wait for the sonic studios review?
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This is odd tho, I noticed some faint banding in the R09HR 100% mic spectrogram...
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_09vsHR_Mic100.jpg)
Looking at the histogram the spikes are visible, but on closer inspection they fall on the exact frequency intervals (1000 Hz increments).
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_R09HR_100MicIn.png)
So that's really wierd :o ...any suggestions? I can't imagine any real digital noise that would fall so neatly on the frequency divisions? An engineering mode in the firmware left on? I am using 1.04 ... what am I overlooking here?
Evidence that the methods are not flawed, here's the R44 under the same conditions (max mic -56 dB), connected to the same MixPre.
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_R44-56dB_MicPre.png)
Jump to a response from Edirol on this issue here...
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105893.msg1431168.html#msg1431168
digifish
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taped over my swtiches on the rear with black electricians tape (and also held shut the potentially 'infamous' battery door).
Removed a few times, great tape, no problems with removing the lettering at all.
Bought black tape as well, hardly noticed the tape at all.
Dropped to LCG to 100hz for Brian JonesTown Massacre on Tuesday.
Fingers crossed, as I've been getting a little too much bass on my recs (beginning to think the BB I bought 2nd hand may be flawed).
We'll see.
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taped over my swtiches on the rear with black electricians tape (and also held shut the potentially 'infamous' battery door).
Removed a few times, great tape, no problems with removing the lettering at all.
Bought black tape as well, hardly noticed the tape at all.
Dropped to LCG to 100hz for Brian JonesTown Massacre on Tuesday.
Fingers crossed, as I've been getting a little too much bass on my recs (beginning to think the BB I bought 2nd hand may be flawed).
We'll see.
At least on the R-09, LCG is something to avoid like the plague, for live music.
OK, now it has 100, 200 or 400hz cut. All of them tooooo much as far as I know.
Just my 2 cents.
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So that's really wierd :o ...any suggestions? I can't imagine any real digital noise that would fall so neatly on the frequency divisions? An engineering mode in the firmware left on? I am using 1.04 ... what am I overlooking here?
That looks really bad and also odd. I'd be interested in a good explanation...
I asked someone at Roland Benelux about them via email.
BTW: the pics at http://sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm for the R09 (not HR) also show some peaks at the treble area?
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This is odd tho, I noticed some faint banding in the R09HR 100% mic spectrogram...
Looking at the histogram the spikes are visible, but on closer inspection they fall on the exact frequency intervals (1000 Hz increments).
So that's really wierd :o ...any suggestions? I can't imagine any real digital noise that would fall so neatly on the frequency divisions? An engineering mode in the firmware left on? I am using 1.04 ... what am I overlooking here?
digifish
Weird..... Does this spikes also happen on the line in recordings???
looking at the spectrogram pictures the line in looks cleaner and don't have these lines
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I've used the R-09HR a few times now. Once @ 16/44, once @ 24/48, and once @ 24/96. No issues whatsoever.
A couple of my not-so-important observations.
I really prefer the new larger screen. It is definitely "old-eyes" friendly. Also, I don't know whether I just got really lucky my last few outings, but I think the recordings actually sound better. The lock button on the back is not a problem . . . just tape over the other buttons and you'll not have a problem. It's not like you'll need to change their settings. The tape will also prevent accidental changes. I find the location of the HR's lock switch to be an easier access than the one on the R-09.
I do not like what they did with the batteries. That new door worries me. People are sure to drop it, lose it, step on it, etc. Personally, I had no problem with the battery design on the R-09. Changing batterries on the fly with the R-09 was much easier. Just open that door, let the old ones drop out and drop in the new. The HR battery design is not that simple.
As for the remote control . . . IMO, it is useless. In an open taping setting, I see no reason to use one. If you are stealthing, if you don't utilize the lock switch, you are begging for disaster. A with the lock "on," the remote is essentially rendered inoperable.
I'm also wondering . . . do I really want to record at 24/96 now just because I can? Perhaps this question is better addressed in a different thread. Storing large 24/48 files is challenge enough.
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So that's really wierd :o ...any suggestions? I can't imagine any real digital noise that would fall so neatly on the frequency divisions? An engineering mode in the firmware left on? I am using 1.04 ... what am I overlooking here?
That looks really bad and also odd. I'd be interested in a good explanation...
It may look bad but in reality it's not (remember the gain is cranked to 100%, the level is very low), but it is really weird. Can someone else with a HR make a 100% gain mic-in recording connected to a mic preamp/tape-deck etc turned down/off?
Please note I was using Ver 1.04 HR firmware.
digifish
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Weird..... Does this spikes also happen on the line in recordings???
looking at the spectrogram pictures the line in looks cleaner and don't have these lines
No, it's just the mic-in. As I mentioned previously, the it's very low level and I am still scratching my head. I will ask Roland about it. It could also be an artifact of something I did, or was near or a setting in the analysis program (but seems unlikely).
digifish
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The only thing I don't like about the new Edirol R-09HR are all the flashing red lights. There are two of them- one on the top (LED for the remote) and one around the record button. I have found a way to make them flash for only a short period of time using a power save mode and setting display options, but apparently there is no way to turn them completely off. They come on as soon as you press the record button and even if you decide to adjust your levels. Minor issue, but those lights could prove annoying for other people at the show around you. Other than that, I love this thing.
Also, the display is always lit somewhat. The good thing is that this doesn't seem to use much battery power. But again, no option to turn brightness "off".
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Weird..... Does this spikes also happen on the line in recordings???
looking at the spectrogram pictures the line in looks cleaner and don't have these lines
No, it's just the mic-in. As I mentioned previously, the it's very low level and I am still scratching my head. I will ask Roland about it. It could also be an artifact of something I did, or was near or a setting in the analysis program (but seems unlikely).
digifish
Just to let you know that I really appreciate your tests. Great job. I'm in love with my R09RH. Thanks ;)
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http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,106283.0.html
my 1st outing with the r09hr. very pleased.
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Hi Josephine- I had to responsd specifically re: the remote- I've never done 'open' on my recording and all my recordings are 'stealth'- that said, I like the remote- since it's good for volume and splitting the file, I've used it during the one open I did (Marc Ford recently) and see it as advantage for one less thing I have to do in "CD WAVE" not that it's a big deal. Additionally, I can see for stealth where it is an advantage. Since one of the venues doesn't allow any electronic devices (including cell phones) during a performance, they have literally pulled people's phone etc right out of their hands. Since I went to this venue and used celophane (blue on the red lights) It filtered the lighting coming from the device, and using the remote adjusted my levels without having to even touch the R-09HR. That is an advantage since no knows what I'm doing. It's line of sight, it's been less hassle and more stealth for me. I use the cutout for a keyring as a reference to know which buttons I access (gain and split). BTW, I don't use the lock switch and so far no disasters, yet ;-)))
I've used the R-09HR a few times now. <snipped>A couple of my not-so-important observations.
As for the remote control . . . IMO, it is useless. In an open taping setting, I see no reason to use one. If you are stealthing, if you don't utilize the lock switch, you are begging for disaster. A with the lock "on," the remote is essentially rendered inoperable.
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Hi Josephine- I had to responsd specifically re: the remote- I've never done 'open' on my recording and all my recordings are 'stealth'- that said, I like the remote- since it's good for volume and splitting the file, I've used it during the one open I did (Marc Ford recently) and see it as advantage for one less thing I have to do in "CD WAVE" not that it's a big deal. Additionally, I can see for stealth where it is an advantage. Since one of the venues doesn't allow any electronic devices (including cell phones) during a performance, they have literally pulled people's phone etc right out of their hands. Since I went to this venue and used celophane (blue on the red lights) It filtered the lighting coming from the device, and using the remote adjusted my levels without having to even touch the R-09HR. That is an advantage since no knows what I'm doing. It's line of sight, it's been less hassle and more stealth for me. I use the cutout for a keyring as a reference to know which buttons I access (gain and split). BTW, I don't use the lock switch and so far no disasters, yet ;-)))
I've used the R-09HR a few times now. <snipped>A couple of my not-so-important observations.
As for the remote control . . . IMO, it is useless. In an open taping setting, I see no reason to use one. If you are stealthing, if you don't utilize the lock switch, you are begging for disaster. A with the lock "on," the remote is essentially rendered inoperable.
If the remote were operable with the lock button switched "ON," I would absolutely see its advantages.
Personally, I will not risk running without the lock "on" while stealth recording.
It's far too easy to knock/bump/touch the Record button and stop/pause recording.
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I've used the R-09HR a few times now. Once @ 16/44, once @ 24/48, and once @ 24/96. No issues whatsoever.
A couple of my not-so-important observations.
I really prefer the new larger screen. It is definitely "old-eyes" friendly. Also, I don't know whether I just got really lucky my last few outings, but I think the recordings actually sound better. The lock button on the back is not a problem . . . just tape over the other buttons and you'll not have a problem. It's not like you'll need to change their settings. The tape will also prevent accidental changes. I find the location of the HR's lock switch to be an easier access than the one on the R-09.
I do not like what they did with the batteries. That new door worries me. People are sure to drop it, lose it, step on it, etc. Personally, I had no problem with the battery design on the R-09. Changing batterries on the fly with the R-09 was much easier. Just open that door, let the old ones drop out and drop in the new. The HR battery design is not that simple.
As for the remote control . . . IMO, it is useless. In an open taping setting, I see no reason to use one. If you are stealthing, if you don't utilize the lock switch, you are begging for disaster. A with the lock "on," the remote is essentially rendered inoperable.
I'm also wondering . . . do I really want to record at 24/96 now just because I can? Perhaps this question is better addressed in a different thread. Storing large 24/48 files is challenge enough.
Thanks Val - just pulled the trigger on one of these for $250. Now to track out some tom waits...
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Now to track out some tom waits...
:whipped: Get to work!!!
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Thanks Val - just pulled the trigger on one of these for $250. Now to track out some tom waits...
Where did you find one for $250?
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Thanks Val - just pulled the trigger on one of these for $250. Now to track out some tom waits...
Where did you find one for $250?
Check the ebay forum for a nice coupon. ;)
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I must be blind, nothing about R09hr coupons
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I must be blind, nothing about R09hr coupons
35% cash back from ebay and microsoft (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105562.0.html)
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Just to let you know that I really appreciate your tests. Great job. I'm in love with my R09RH. Thanks ;)
No problem. I am liking the 09HR better than the R09 too. It just feels more robust and seems to be pulling nicer recordings :)
BTW: My post here is now with R&D Japan. Looking forward to what they say,
digifish
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I ran another test of the 16GB A-Data class 6 SDHC card... this time there was trouble. I updated to v1.04 firmware, did a fresh format to the SD card, and set it to record at 24/96 with 1GB splits. It recorded 4 files ok then when it split to the 5th file, it stopped recording (there is only 1 second recorded for the 5th file). Unfortunately, I did not witness what happened when the recording stopped. I went to check it and the unit had powered down (assuming it sat idle for 3 minutes - as that is how I had the power save setup). I started recording again at it appears to be doing fine.
I guess I'll be repeating this test a few times.
Update: So the recording continued fine until the batteries ran out, and the last file is ok, so I assume it saved it before completely shutting down. I was using "Kirkland Signature" alkalines (Costco house brand) and got 4 hrs 4 minutes recorded before it shut down. The 5th file that it stopped on as described above seems to be missing file header info since I can't get any file properties when downloaded onto my computer - not sure what this indicates, whether there was a "slow card" error during recording or not.
I just got done testing a 16GB A-Data class 6 SDHC card. Ran it using a fesh pair of Energizer "standard" alkaline batteries. Card formatted on the r09hr. I got 5 hrs 15 min at 24/96, appears flawless, even stopped/started 4 times. No "slow card" errors. I haven't updated, so I'm running v1.03 firmware. I do the same with my PNY 16GB class 6 SDHC card tomorrow.
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I ran another test of the 16GB A-Data class 6 SDHC card... this time there was trouble. I updated to v1.04 firmware, did a fresh format to the SD card, and set it to record at 24/96 with 1GB splits. It recorded 4 files ok then when it split to the 5th file, it stopped recording (there is only 1 second recorded for the 5th file). Unfortunately, I did not witness what happened when the recording stopped. I went to check it and the unit had powered down (assuming it sat idle for 3 minutes - as that is how I had the power save setup). I started recording again at it appears to be doing fine.
I guess I'll be repeating this test a few times.
I just got done testing a 16GB A-Data class 6 SDHC card. Ran it using a fesh pair of Energizer "standard" alkaline batteries. Card formatted on the r09hr. I got 5 hrs 15 min at 24/96, appears flawless, even stopped/started 4 times. No "slow card" errors. I haven't updated, so I'm running v1.03 firmware. I do the same with my PNY 16GB class 6 SDHC card tomorrow.
that stinks, i may just record 24/448 just to be safe.
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I ran another test of the 16GB A-Data class 6 SDHC card... this time there was trouble. I updated to v1.04 firmware, did a fresh format to the SD card, and set it to record at 24/96 with 1GB splits. It recorded 4 files ok then when it split to the 5th file, it stopped recording (there is only 1 second recorded for the 5th file). Unfortunately, I did not witness what happened when the recording stopped. I went to check it and the unit had powered down (assuming it sat idle for 3 minutes - as that is how I had the power save setup). I started recording again at it appears to be doing fine.
I guess I'll be repeating this test a few times.
I just got done testing a 16GB A-Data class 6 SDHC card. Ran it using a fesh pair of Energizer "standard" alkaline batteries. Card formatted on the r09hr. I got 5 hrs 15 min at 24/96, appears flawless, even stopped/started 4 times. No "slow card" errors. I haven't updated, so I'm running v1.03 firmware. I do the same with my PNY 16GB class 6 SDHC card tomorrow.
Just curious: what brand?
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A-Data
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A-Data
Sorry, I'm not familiar with particular brand. It's just that I've heard really bad things about Transcend cards, so I assume that was your card brand. ;)
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I just pulled 2 more decent recordings last weekend @ 24/96 with ZERO errors. I used a Toshiba 8GB SDHC class 4 for the Gin Blossoms(on Dime) and a Toshiba 4GB SDHC class 4 for The Rembrandts, same venue and on the same set of Sanyo 2700's. Still had full power showing on the ride home. My guess is the cards are to blame for the slow read errors folks are reporting. So far, I've had NO errors... Lovin' the HR!!!!
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i have a scandisk 8 gb sdhc, i am thinking about getting the 16 gb version. i try to stick with brand names. i will be taping the crowes tonight at 24/48 just to play it safe
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Hello all,
I can't tell you how happy I am to have stumbled upon this treasure trove of knowledge in such a circuitous route that only the internet can provide, taperssection is surely the dat-heads I once read for the 21st century.
Thanks mainly to the copious reporting on the R-09HR here (although other sources too) I have decided to take the plunge and ordered one of these units. My main question here is about pairing this unit up with external microphones and possibly a pre-amp. I have studiously read the entire 26 pages of the part ONE of this post and all of the part TWO as well as googling a few terms that were driving me crazy to get an answer on so everything I'm asking I seriously have no clue on and would be quite grateful for elucidation. The simple questions first:
1. What is a nbox? ((pjp quoted this as his setup; Source: Schoeps MK4 > Nbox > Edirol R-09HR) or Nbox+? I've looked and looked and the only place I can find this term in an audio context is on torrent sites for live recordings...
2. I see alot of people mentioning Church Audio STC-11s, however even going to www.church-audio.ca's ebay store I don't see any of this model, are they now obsolete or at least discontinued?
3. Is there a difference between people saying BB (battery box) and a pre-amp or is it just a euphemism?
So now my more general question is this: What microphones are the best for recording bass? I initially chose this model over the Olympus LS-10 because the internal speakers on the R-09HR had better bass response and because I read on this forum that the LS-10 was a "dead-end" for using aftermarket pre-amps.
If you're curious as to why I ask, it is because the type of music I will be recording is metal, and not Warrant / Motley Crue "metal", I mean mostly death metal and black metal, which for those unfamiliar is quite dense/busy musically and makes significant use of double bass through the kick drum. I would like to say I'm an audiophile but unfortunately I'm not rich enough to put my money where my mouth is, however I do believe in deep bass and did manage to get a pair of speakers for my stereo that are capable of producing it accurately.
Setups that I've seen include the Nbox of course (which is why I'm dying to know what it is!), Sound Professional SP-BMC-1, SP-BMC-2, SP-BMC-3, SP-BMC-10 mics, all save the BMC-10's have similar frequency response and SNR, the price is even the same, adding to the frustration of differentiation. The HEB's (sometimes with or without Core Sound BB or pre-amp...http://www.core-sound.com/bk/1.php are these the ones everyone is referring to?
Some people talk about these pre-amps, the Felmicamps: http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/products/fel3.5series.html
I have read guysonic's review of the R-09HR http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm and he recommends pairing this with the PA-3SX preamp, and the DSM mics he sells. It made me raise the proverbial eyebrow because he sells a mic that is supposedly tailor made for metal, the DSM-6S /EL.
Others have recommended the DPA 4061 (Danish Pro Audio), and Audio Technica, which is apparently used in the SP-BMC-10.
So, in the case of Sonic Studio's little kit, the PA-3SX and the DSM-6S /EL are about $1100. Considering the about $350 for the R-09HR this is altogether only $150 less than buying a Sony PCM-D1 (check froogle.com). Are all of these digital recorders' internal mics crap if you're "serious" about audio quality?
I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish, I am willing to spend some money so I don't listen to my recording later and lament that if I only spent an extra $100, or $300, or $500, it would've been inordinately better. As they say, quality is remembered long after price is forgotten...
Would it make sense to just get a Sony PCM-D50 and the DSM-6S /EL since this would be cheaper ultimately than the R-09HR w/ the extra pre-amp?
Please help me ??? Thank you in advance and I apologize if this is the wrong place to post this.
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Hello all,
I can't tell you how happy I am to have stumbled upon this treasure trove of knowledge in such a circuitous route that only the internet can provide, taperssection is surely the dat-heads I once read for the 21st century.
Thanks mainly to the copious reporting on the R-09HR here (although other sources too) I have decided to take the plunge and ordered one of these units. My main question here is about pairing this unit up with external microphones and possibly a pre-amp. I have studiously read the entire 26 pages of the part ONE of this post and all of the part TWO as well as googling a few terms that were driving me crazy to get an answer on so everything I'm asking I seriously have no clue on and would be quite grateful for elucidation. The simple questions first:
1. What is a nbox? ((pjp quoted this as his setup; Source: Schoeps MK4 > Nbox > Edirol R-09HR) or Nbox+? I've looked and looked and the only place I can find this term in an audio context is on torrent sites for live recordings...
2. I see alot of people mentioning Church Audio STC-11s, however even going to www.church-audio.ca's ebay store I don't see any of this model, are they now obsolete or at least discontinued?
3. Is there a difference between people saying BB (battery box) and a pre-amp or is it just a euphemism?
So now my more general question is this: What microphones are the best for recording bass? I initially chose this model over the Olympus LS-10 because the internal speakers on the R-09HR had better bass response and because I read on this forum that the LS-10 was a "dead-end" for using aftermarket pre-amps.
If you're curious as to why I ask, it is because the type of music I will be recording is metal, and not Warrant / Motley Crue "metal", I mean mostly death metal and black metal, which for those unfamiliar is quite dense/busy musically and makes significant use of double bass through the kick drum. I would like to say I'm an audiophile but unfortunately I'm not rich enough to put my money where my mouth is, however I do believe in deep bass and did manage to get a pair of speakers for my stereo that are capable of producing it accurately.
Setups that I've seen include the Nbox of course (which is why I'm dying to know what it is!), Sound Professional SP-BMC-1, SP-BMC-2, SP-BMC-3, SP-BMC-10 mics, all save the BMC-10's have similar frequency response and SNR, the price is even the same, adding to the frustration of differentiation. The HEB's (sometimes with or without Core Sound BB or pre-amp...http://www.core-sound.com/bk/1.php are these the ones everyone is referring to?
Some people talk about these pre-amps, the Felmicamps: http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/products/fel3.5series.html
I have read guysonic's review of the R-09HR http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm and he recommends pairing this with the PA-3SX preamp, and the DSM mics he sells. It made me raise the proverbial eyebrow because he sells a mic that is supposedly tailor made for metal, the DSM-6S /EL.
Others have recommended the DPA 4061 (Danish Pro Audio), and Audio Technica, which is apparently used in the SP-BMC-10.
So, in the case of Sonic Studio's little kit, the PA-3SX and the DSM-6S /EL are about $1100. Considering the about $350 for the R-09HR this is altogether only $150 less than buying a Sony PCM-D1 (check froogle.com). Are all of these digital recorders' internal mics crap if you're "serious" about audio quality?
I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish, I am willing to spend some money so I don't listen to my recording later and lament that if I only spent an extra $100, or $300, or $500, it would've been inordinately better. As they say, quality is remembered long after price is forgotten...
Would it make sense to just get a Sony PCM-D50 and the DSM-6S /EL since this would be cheaper ultimately than the R-09HR w/ the extra pre-amp?
Please help me ??? Thank you in advance and I apologize if this is the wrong place to post this.
I'm the first one to jump in. Unfortunatelly, I'm not the one with more knowledge, but I'll try to give you my impressions. If that helps, I'd be happy.
The Church "11s" mics are the same: Church cardioids. Right now there is a new model ( CA-14) which is said to be nice too. For a better understanding about Church audio line of products, please check TS Retail link.
A BB is a battery, the one device that powers your mics before the signal goes to your recorder ( if you are running Line In with loud music or don't want to use the recorder own plug in power). The preamp also powers the mics, but - no suprise - also amplifies the signal coming from your mics. Simply put: a BB is perfect in loud music situations - seems to be your case. A preamp is great when the original signal is not loud enough.
Regarding the NBox, I'm not sure, but I' too want to know details about it's purpose . My guess: it's a preamp, but I'm not 100% sure.
Regarding gear, I can only talk about my gear. I'm quite happy with the R9HR, Microphone Madness mics ( HLSO-1 cards and HLSO omni, both Sennheiser based) and my 9100 Church preamp. BTW, the HLSC-1 is amazing with loud music.
Microphone Madness, Soundprofessionals and Church Audio are great and worth checking. Regarding being "serious" about sound quality, well, I wouldn't consider any recorder internal mics for live music taping.
Just my 0.00000002 cents. Hope that helps. Keep your cool: in a few minutes the more educated members will help you out.
Take care ;)
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An NBox is a power supply and preamp designed specifically to work with Schoeps Colette mk_ capsules. It allows you to run just the Schoeps caps - no need for bodies/amplifiers (cmc5, cmc6, etc). It provides 60V power to the capsules and about +18 to 20 db fixed gain with unbalanced rca outs. The NBox+ is the same thing with upgraded capacitors. Visit 'Team NBox' for more info.
I ran another test of the 16GB A-Data class 6 SDHC card. Fresh format, recording at 24/96... I got the "slow card" error at 1 hr 55 min. I started recording again (I didn't reformat) and I got the "slow card" error in 11 min. :( I think I'm done wasting batteries on these tests. With the v1.04 firmware, I think it's safe to say you're limited to 24/48 with this card.
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Those spikes showing up in 88.2kHz and 96kHz, do they appear when using the internal mics too or mic-in only?
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Those spikes showing up in 88.2kHz and 96kHz, do they appear when using the internal mics too or mic-in only?
Only on the mic in, not the internal or the line-in.
digifish
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in case anyone missed it, like I did, the official guysonic review: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,106364.msg1420097.html#msg1420097
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I'm the first one to jump in. Unfortunatelly, I'm not the one with more knowledge, but I'll try to give you my impressions. If that helps, I'd be happy.
The Church "11s" mics are the same: Church cardioids. Right now there is a new model ( CA-14) which is said to be nice too. For a better understanding about Church audio line of products, please check TS Retail link.
A BB is a battery, the one device that powers your mics before the signal goes to your recorder ( if you are running Line In with loud music or don't want to use the recorder own plug in power). The preamp also powers the mics, but - no suprise - also amplifies the signal coming from your mics. Simply put: a BB is perfect in loud music situations - seems to be your case. A preamp is great when the original signal is not loud enough.
Regarding the NBox, I'm not sure, but I' too want to know details about it's purpose . My guess: it's a preamp, but I'm not 100% sure.
Regarding gear, I can only talk about my gear. I'm quite happy with the R9HR, Microphone Madness mics ( HLSO-1 cards and HLSO omni, both Sennheiser based) and my 9100 Church preamp. BTW, the HLSC-1 is amazing with loud music.
Thanks for the reply, just to clarify what you said, if I were to get HLSC-1's, I wouldn't need a 9100 Church preamp? Also, I looked at the specs on them and they only go down to 30hz on the low end, I couldn't find any specs on the HLSO-1 (maybe they don't sell them anymore?), just wondering if you recommended them over the CA-11, or CA-14s which do go down to 20hz for a reason?
Visit 'Team NBox' for more info.
I searched taperssection for this and only came up with one hit, google had nothing, do you have a webpage?
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Visit 'Team NBox' for more info.
I searched taperssection for this and only came up with one hit, google had nothing, do you have a webpage?
Try the forum index then Miscellaneous -> Team Boards -> Team NBox
Chris Church advertises all of his products in the Retail Space, as do others.
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Team NBox:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,57958.0.html
Ran yet another test last night w/ the 16GB A-Data "Turbo" (Class 6) SDHC card. v1.04 firmware, 24/48, Kirkland Signature (Costco) alkalines. Everything looks good, no errors, and it ran for 4 hrs 40 min before saving and shutting down.
Testing a 16GB PNY Class 4 SDHC card now @ 24/96...
[Update] Success! It ran for 4 hrs 37 min before saving and shutting down. No "slow card" errors. ;D
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curious....for those of you who used to own the original r-09 version and now own the HR version.....does it make a difference to you that the line input is on the SIDE of the HR unit vs the top of the R-09? the level adjustment buttons are still on the side for each, correct? does this pose a problem on the HR version?
I may be in the market for an r-09...and just trying to get some additional info before taking the plunge. I have run the original r-09 with no problems, and not sure the extra sample rates is worth it for me
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curious....for those of you who used to own the original r-09 version and now own the HR version.....does it make a difference to you that the line input is on the SIDE of the HR unit vs the top of the R-09? the level adjustment buttons are still on the side for each, correct? does this pose a problem on the HR version?
It's not a problem for me. Yes, level adjustment is on the same side. Level buttons near the center and line input near the bottom.
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curious....for those of you who used to own the original r-09 version and now own the HR version.....does it make a difference to you that the line input is on the SIDE of the HR unit vs the top of the R-09? the level adjustment buttons are still on the side for each, correct? does this pose a problem on the HR version?
I may be in the market for an r-09...and just trying to get some additional info before taking the plunge. I have run the original r-09 with no problems, and not sure the extra sample rates is worth it for me
I find that using a RA plug with the jacks on the side makes adjusting the levels a little cumbersome.
But, once I have the levels figured out a little better, I plan setting the R09hr's levels once per outing and making all the adjustments via the pre amp.
To me the R09hr is the way to go just because of the larger display and the better quality build(no more break away input jacks).
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Could anyone please tell me if the line in power would be sufficient to power a pair of DPA 4061s wired together to a 1/8" plug, or if it they would have to be plugged into the mic in, or will I need a bbox (battery box, right?) for high volume (90+ db) recording, and if so, could you please make a recommendation? Thanks.
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I'm the first one to jump in. Unfortunatelly, I'm not the one with more knowledge, but I'll try to give you my impressions. If that helps, I'd be happy.
The Church "11s" mics are the same: Church cardioids. Right now there is a new model ( CA-14) which is said to be nice too. For a better understanding about Church audio line of products, please check TS Retail link.
A BB is a battery, the one device that powers your mics before the signal goes to your recorder ( if you are running Line In with loud music or don't want to use the recorder own plug in power). The preamp also powers the mics, but - no suprise - also amplifies the signal coming from your mics. Simply put: a BB is perfect in loud music situations - seems to be your case. A preamp is great when the original signal is not loud enough.
Regarding the NBox, I'm not sure, but I' too want to know details about it's purpose . My guess: it's a preamp, but I'm not 100% sure.
Regarding gear, I can only talk about my gear. I'm quite happy with the R9HR, Microphone Madness mics ( HLSO-1 cards and HLSO omni, both Sennheiser based) and my 9100 Church preamp. BTW, the HLSC-1 is amazing with loud music.
Thanks for the reply, just to clarify what you said, if I were to get HLSC-1's, I wouldn't need a 9100 Church preamp? Also, I looked at the specs on them and they only go down to 30hz on the low end, I couldn't find any specs on the HLSO-1 (maybe they don't sell them anymore?), just wondering if you recommended them over the CA-11, or CA-14s which do go down to 20hz for a reason?
Visit 'Team NBox' for more info.
I searched taperssection for this and only came up with one hit, google had nothing, do you have a webpage?
Friend,
Metal type music? I'm sure you won't need a preamp. A battery box is all you're going to need. In this case, use the Line In input, quiter than the Mic input.
About comparing different mics, well, like I said, I just can't do that ::). It wouldn't be ethic for a very simple reason: I don't have any Church mics. I'm sure they are great products. Lots of folks around here use and love them. I can talk about the HLSC-1: terrific mics. ;) Yes, they are available at Microphone Madness site. Give Mike a call.
About the NBox, I think you can find the info you need in a recent post on this very thread.
Hope that helps,
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Thanks for the reply, just to clarify what you said, if I were to get HLSC-1's, I wouldn't need a 9100 Church preamp? Also, I looked at the specs on them and they only go down to 30hz on the low end, I couldn't find any specs on the HLSO-1 (maybe they don't sell them anymore?), just wondering if you recommended them over the CA-11, or CA-14s which do go down to 20hz for a reason?
Friend,
Metal type music? I'm sure you won't need a preamp. A battery box is all you're going to need. In this case, use the Line In input, quiter than the Mic input.
About comparing different mics, well, like I said, I just can't do that ::). It wouldn't be ethic for a very simple reason: I don't have any Church mics. I'm sure they are great products. Lots of folks around here use and love them. I can talk about the HLSC-1: terrific mics. ;) Yes, they are available at Microphone Madness site. Give Mike a call.
About the NBox, I think you can find the info you need in a recent post on this very thread.
Hope that helps,
Thanks again for helping me out with your knowledge, I like the Church Audio ST-9100 and would probably just order this and be done with it if not for my time constraints, as there's a show that I *MUST* ;D tape next Wednesday and thus can't wait the 2-3week build time + shipping time, so I need a bbox or something that I can just order and have shipped. The HLSC-1s I'm a little hesitant of because I previously mentioned they go down to 30hz on the low end as opposed to alot of other mics that do the whole audio range (20hz-20khz), I was referring to not being able to find the ones that you said you have already, the HLSO-1s.
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Thanks for the reply, just to clarify what you said, if I were to get HLSC-1's, I wouldn't need a 9100 Church preamp? Also, I looked at the specs on them and they only go down to 30hz on the low end, I couldn't find any specs on the HLSO-1 (maybe they don't sell them anymore?), just wondering if you recommended them over the CA-11, or CA-14s which do go down to 20hz for a reason?
Friend,
Metal type music? I'm sure you won't need a preamp. A battery box is all you're going to need. In this case, use the Line In input, quiter than the Mic input.
About comparing different mics, well, like I said, I just can't do that ::). It wouldn't be ethic for a very simple reason: I don't have any Church mics. I'm sure they are great products. Lots of folks around here use and love them. I can talk about the HLSC-1: terrific mics. ;) Yes, they are available at Microphone Madness site. Give Mike a call.
About the NBox, I think you can find the info you need in a recent post on this very thread.
Hope that helps,
Thanks again for helping me out with your knowledge, I like the Church Audio ST-9100 and would probably just order this and be done with it if not for my time constraints, as there's a show that I *MUST* ;D tape next Wednesday and thus can't wait the 2-3week build time + shipping time, so I need a bbox or something that I can just order and have shipped. The HLSC-1s I'm a little hesitant of because I previously mentioned they go down to 30hz on the low end as opposed to alot of other mics that do the whole audio range (20hz-20khz), I was referring to not being able to find the ones that you said you have already, the HLSO-1s.
No problem. The HLSO (omnis) are also available ( Microphone Madness).
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Those spikes showing up in 88.2kHz and 96kHz, do they appear when using the internal mics too or mic-in only?
Only on the mic in, not the internal or the line-in.
digifish
Hi,
There´s something that's not clear to me. Probably because I do not have proper knowledge. Anyway, I have to ask.
Based on several posts and on guysonic's great report, my conclusion is that the brand new R9HR is noisier when running it's highest resolution (24/96). PLEASE, don't take me wrong: I'm not saying that I disagre. My lack of knowledge is huge, I simply can't disagree. It's just that I'm curious about the reasons that would led a huge corporation (Roland) to put together and sell a product with such bizarre behaviour. If 24/96 is worst, why offering such feature in the first place?
I'm also confused about the fact that it's been suggesting that adding a preamp would solve the problem. How come? The noise spikes also happen with Line In or just Mic in/Internals?
Please accpet my apology for not being an expert in this matter. Just confused. ;)
P.S.: I also posted this message in another R9HR related theread. Sorry about that. My bad.
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It's just that I'm curious about the reasons that would led a huge corporation (Roland) to put together and sell a product with such bizarre behaviour.
It's beyond me as well.
The noise spikes also happen with Line In or just Mic in/Internals?
Please accpet my apology for not being an expert in this matter. Just confused. ;)
Happens with mic-in only, neither line-in nor internal mics. At least that's how I understand it from reading the
comments here. I'm not expert either.
Battling with myself if I should buy one or not. Those "slow read" errors and those noise spikes made me somewhat hesitant about buying one.
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It's just that I'm curious about the reasons that would led a huge corporation (Roland) to put together and sell a product with such bizarre behaviour.
It's beyond me as well.
The noise spikes also happen with Line In or just Mic in/Internals?
Please accpet my apology for not being an expert in this matter. Just confused. ;)
Happens with mic-in only, neither line-in nor internal mics. At least that's how I understand it from reading the
comments here. I'm not expert either.
Battling with myself if I should buy one or not. Those "slow read" errors and those noise spikes made me somewhat hesitant about buying one.
So far, no problems at all with my R9HR. To my ears , it sounds wonderful, warmer and more well defined than the R-09 ( which I've been using for more than 2 years).
Using Kingston cards ( 8GB class 6) I've never had a problem, not a single one.
You're right about the mic only issue. My bad. Is that right (that's me asking the more educated members)?
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Thanks for the reply, just to clarify what you said, if I were to get HLSC-1's, I wouldn't need a 9100 Church preamp? Also, I looked at the specs on them and they only go down to 30hz on the low end, I couldn't find any specs on the HLSO-1 (maybe they don't sell them anymore?), just wondering if you recommended them over the CA-11, or CA-14s which do go down to 20hz for a reason?
Friend,
Metal type music? I'm sure you won't need a preamp. A battery box is all you're going to need. In this case, use the Line In input, quiter than the Mic input.
About comparing different mics, well, like I said, I just can't do that ::). It wouldn't be ethic for a very simple reason: I don't have any Church mics. I'm sure they are great products. Lots of folks around here use and love them. I can talk about the HLSC-1: terrific mics. ;) Yes, they are available at Microphone Madness site. Give Mike a call.
About the NBox, I think you can find the info you need in a recent post on this very thread.
Hope that helps,
Thanks again for helping me out with your knowledge, I like the Church Audio ST-9100 and would probably just order this and be done with it if not for my time constraints, as there's a show that I *MUST* ;D tape next Wednesday and thus can't wait the 2-3week build time + shipping time, so I need a bbox or something that I can just order and have shipped. The HLSC-1s I'm a little hesitant of because I previously mentioned they go down to 30hz on the low end as opposed to alot of other mics that do the whole audio range (20hz-20khz), I was referring to not being able to find the ones that you said you have already, the HLSO-1s.
Which show is it?
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Which show is it?
At The Gates from .se \m/
Only played in this country once in 1996 in the opening slot.
Reformed after 12 years.
First headlining tour in this country.
This is the equivalent of the Beatles reforming if Lennon never died for melodic death metal, no bullsh|t ;D
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curious....for those of you who used to own the original r-09 version and now own the HR version.....does it make a difference to you that the line input is on the SIDE of the HR unit vs the top of the R-09? the level adjustment buttons are still on the side for each, correct? does this pose a problem on the HR version?
IMHO, it is a little annoying, as with the connector on the side, I am using a right angle cable now, and that can get in the way of the volume controls.
On the R-09, "8" on the volume was the unity setting, so I never changed levels... but with the R-09HR, I have not seen 100% confirmation of a unity setting or a "go for it use anything" setting
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... those noise spikes made me somewhat hesitant about buying one.
Frankly the R09HR is demonstrably superior to the original R09. Background noise on mic in & line in. Internal mics etc.
BTW: The R09 has the same noise spikes, plus a few big ones ones the R09HR does not. It's just that now the noise floor is lower on the HR the spikes seem more visible. Also note these are very, very low level and IMO will not make any difference to the quality of the mic-in recordings. Finally as has been mentioned, the line-in and internal mics for that matter are all spike free.
Please try to ignore the graphs and use your ears :) I think the spectrograph plots I show put things in better perspective as a relative difference.
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_09vsHR_Mic100.jpg)
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_09vsHR_Mic50.jpg)
digifish.
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... those noise spikes made me somewhat hesitant about buying one.
Frankly the R09HR is demonstrably superior to the original R09. Background noise on mic in & line in. Internal mics etc.
BTW: The R09 has the same noise spikes, plus a few big ones ones the R09HR does not. It's just that now the noise floor is lower on the HR the spikes seem more visible. Also note these are very, very low level and IMO will not make any difference to the quality of the mic-in recordings. Finally as has been mentioned, the line-in and internal mics for that matter are all spike free.
Please try to ignore the graphs and use your ears :) I think the spectrograph plots I show put things in better perspective as a relative difference.
Thanks for the reply. Made me a bit less hesitant :) What's left is to overcome the Norwegian price tag and the size (it's so much larger than my MD I'm not sure how to get it through security). Cheapest I can find is about 3000kr which at the time of posting is equal to $589 (USD).
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Cheapest I can find is about 3000kr which at the time of posting is equal to $589 (USD).
I'd be checking eBay from the US. I can land one in Australia for about $440
digifish
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Price on eBay in USA is about $350, about $400 through a dealer.
It's only been a couple of weeks since the R-09HR was introduced,
and prices have not started to come down.
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On the R-09, "8" on the volume was the unity setting, so I never changed levels... but with the R-09HR, I have not seen 100% confirmation of a unity setting or a "go for it use anything" setting
Was there a 100% confirmation of a unity setting or a "go for it use anything" setting for the R-09? `8` was a myth.
Level 8 on the R-09 line in maps,in my sheets, to about 9 dBU or 2.18Vrms or 6.18Vpp. (all 30 + mute level settings got an interpolated -13 to 16 dBU figure)
The default level is 0 dBU or about 2Vpp, closer to normal consumer line working levels.
For the HR the spec says:
Line input: 2 dBu (Default input level)
This is very close to where the codec chip has it's 0dBFS point, according to the data sheet.
Have a look at the codec (made by WM) datasheet. Map the level settings to the levels that the chip supports.
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Cheapest I can find is about 3000kr which at the time of posting is equal to $589 (USD).
I'd be checking eBay from the US. I can land one in Australia for about $440
digifish
FWIW, in the process of acquiring my music collection, I have done alot of international ordering in my life. Alot of people seem to be unnecessarily trepidatious of the process thinking that they'll never get their package, but I just want to say to you guys in the .eu and .au, order from the USA, your package WILL get through customs and save a hundred+ dollars. I ordered mine from amazon.com last week, http://tinyurl.com/63hf4l. Got it for $334, but at the time amazon.com itself didn't have it in stock and ordered it from a merchant. According to UPS, I'll be getting it Monday. In the meantime, the price seems to have gone up $25, but at $359 it's obviously still alot less. I already checked for you guys so I wouldn't be putting my foot in my mouth, and this place ships to both of your countries. Enjoy ;)
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Please don't forget to mention VAT and import fees that MAY be added to your imported deck when it enters your country.
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Was there a 100% confirmation of a unity setting or a "go for it use anything" setting for the R-09? `8` was a myth.
I will have to disagree, I have a couple of recordings not run at 8, all run lower, and the WAV files look flat, uneven and sound it as well
Level 8 on the R-09 line in maps,in my sheets, to about 9 dBU or 2.18Vrms or 6.18Vpp. (all 30 + mute level settings got an interpolated -13 to 16 dBU figure)
The default level is 0 dBU or about 2Vpp, closer to normal consumer line working levels.
For the HR the spec says:
Line input: 2 dBu (Default input level)
This is very close to where the codec chip has it's 0dBFS point, according to the data sheet.
Have a look at the codec (made by WM) datasheet. Map the level settings to the levels that the chip supports.
Sorry, but I dont speak engineer, can you explain in layman's terms? Please?
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Sorry, but I dont speak engineer, can you explain in layman's terms? Please?
He means:
Unity is the point where no gain nor attenuation is added to the signal.
The core of the recorder is the codec chip with optionally it's own PGA (Programmable Gain Amplifier?).
When the PGA is unsused that amplifier is at unity.
The reference signal (which varies per chip) will then reach 0dbFS on the scale.
Therefor the level of the reference signal is important.
For the HR that level is 1Vrms when the WM codec is powered at 5V for the analog part.
When you insert a signal different from 1Vrms into the HR this means that either attenuation or amplification neds to be added, outside of the codec chip.
This is not what you mean with unity.
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I know the meaning of unity, but when it comes to the r-09hr, where is unity? Where does the PGA do nothing so the HR is just capturing like a "bit-bucket"?
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Maybe check the default level first? (and what max signal is for 0dBFS)
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I know the meaning of unity, but when it comes to the r-09hr, where is unity? Where does the PGA do nothing so the HR is just capturing like a "bit-bucket"?
I wouldn't exactly call unity analog gain into an A/D stage like working a "bit-bucket" but to help determine what might be unity line input setting consider the following:
Without knowing specifics, I can assume maximum analog signal limits imposed by the power supply rails is 0-to-~+3dBu rms.
So with LINE minimum signal input (applying some deck internal gain) measured at -12dBu (see my tech review input chart) with REC level adjust number at #80, and if 0.5dB is correct per adjust step, the #80 minus 24 adjust steps (~12 dB less gain) should put line input unity gain at ~#56-to-#50 adjustment setting.
R-09HR tech review at: www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm)
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The default level is just in that area. ;D
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The default level is just in that area. ;D
I am also curious about the so called unity gain for one specific reason. I've been told that it's better to attenuate using my preamp instead of the recorder. Why? Why is digital attenuation a bad thing? ???
Thanks in advance
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The default level is just in that area. ;D
I am also curious about the so called unity gain for one specific reason. I've been told that it's better to attenuate using my preamp instead of the recorder. Why? Why is digital attenuation a bad thing? ???
Yes, digital attenuation is bad.
but the deck does analog attenuation before the ADC as far as I know.
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The default level is just in that area. ;D
I am also curious about the so called unity gain for one specific reason. I've been told that it's better to attenuate using my preamp instead of the recorder. Why? Why is digital attenuation a bad thing? ???
Yes, digital attenuation is bad.
but the deck does analog attenuation before the ADC as far as I know.
Thanks a lot for your fast response :coolguy:
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I wouldn't exactly call unity analog gain into an A/D stage like working a "bit-bucket" but to help determine what might be unity line input setting consider the following:
That is true, the bit bucket term was wrong/off...
What I am planning to use my R09Hr for, is capturing the audio that my mics and pre send to it, and nothing more... I dont need to be fancy or use bells and whistles... just something to record the sound the way the PA is putting it out and not have the deck play a role in the recording.
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What I am planning to use my R09Hr for, is capturing the audio that my mics and pre send to it, and nothing more... I dont need to be fancy or use bells and whistles... just something to record the sound the way the PA is putting it out and not have the deck play a role in the recording.
The analog stage of the R-09 and its ADC will play a role in the recording. You may be able to minimize the audible impact of the R-09's analog stage, but it's there nonetheless. Likewise, different ADCs sound different (in part due to analog stages, in part due to the ADC itself). The only way the "recorder" wouldn't play an auditory role is if it was truly acting as a bit bucket, i.e. you ran an external analog stage and ADC and simply captured the digital output of the ADC onto the recorder.
That's not to say the R-09 won't perform as you wish - from the recordings I've heard, mics > preamp > R-09 sounds mighty fine.
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I've run the HR twice now @ 24/96. No issues whatsoever.
Used a Kingston 8 gig card both times.
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At last I got mine as well.. it was delivered with a HP 8GB SD-card.
I haven't tested it yet.. Someone here already has some experiences with this type of card?
I'm already thinking on buying an extra SanDisk or Kingston as backup..
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Found a few R-09HR podcasts at http://blindcooltech.com/
Edirol R09 HR Overview
describes and demonstrates this new high quality digital recorder from Edirol. 26.9 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1206EdirolR09HROverview.mp3
Edirol R09 HR Microphone Tests
compares various recorder and microphone combinations. 33.0 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1207EdirolR09HRMicrophoneTests.mp3
Storm That Made The Lake Disappear
captures (with the Edirol R09-HR and DPA microphones) the storm that emptied Lake Delton on June 8, 2008. This is not a recording of the lake emptying, but about 5 minutes of the storm as it passed through Madison before it caused the damage. 8.6 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1210StormThatMadeTheLakeDisappear.mp3
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Found a few R-09HR podcasts at http://blindcooltech.com/
Edirol R09 HR Overview
describes and demonstrates this new high quality digital recorder from Edirol. 26.9 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1206EdirolR09HROverview.mp3
Edirol R09 HR Microphone Tests
compares various recorder and microphone combinations. 33.0 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1207EdirolR09HRMicrophoneTests.mp3
Storm That Made The Lake Disappear
captures (with the Edirol R09-HR and DPA microphones) the storm that emptied Lake Delton on June 8, 2008. This is not a recording of the lake emptying, but about 5 minutes of the storm as it passed through Madison before it caused the damage. 8.6 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1210StormThatMadeTheLakeDisappear.mp3
Thanks for the heads up. Great stuff.
+T
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What I am planning to use my R09Hr for, is capturing the audio that my mics and pre send to it, and nothing more... I dont need to be fancy or use bells and whistles... just something to record the sound the way the PA is putting it out and not have the deck play a role in the recording.
The analog stage of the R-09 and its ADC will play a role in the recording. You may be able to minimize the audible impact of the R-09's analog stage, but it's there nonetheless. Likewise, different ADCs sound different (in part due to analog stages, in part due to the ADC itself). The only way the "recorder" wouldn't play an auditory role is if it was truly acting as a bit bucket, i.e. you ran an external analog stage and ADC and simply captured the digital output of the ADC onto the recorder.
That's not to say the R-09 won't perform as you wish - from the recordings I've heard, mics > preamp > R-09 sounds mighty fine.
Greg,
Brian's opinion above is accurate. No matter how you slice it, the HR's pre/adc will have a presence in your recording's flavor. It is an often overlooked consideration when you send an Analog signal > Recorder. If you want your mics and preamp to be dominate the flavor of your recordings, I suggest you score a Sony SBM-1/ PCM-D50 combo or something equivalent. Ensure that the external ADC is transparent, in that it converts the sound, but offers no flavoring to the output.
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would anyone be so kind to post a picture of the R-09 with the battery compartment door open.
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Edirol's web pages about the R-09HR have high resolution photos.
http://www.edirol.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=333&Itemid=438
Here's the photo that shows the door open:
http://www.edirol.com/images/stories/products/r09hr/r09hr_botton_card.jpg
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Can anybody guess whether the Edirol R-09HR can be detected by metal detectors or not? Because we have those in our biggest concert venue :( They didn't react to my cheap (mostly plastic) camera that I had hidden in my pants so I'm somehow hoping the detectors detect only bigger metal items such as the Olympus LS-10 :)
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Can anybody guess whether the Edirol R-09HR can be detected by metal detectors or not? Because we have those in our biggest concert venue :( They didn't react to my cheap (mostly plastic) camera that I had hidden in my pants so I'm somehow hoping the detectors detect only bigger metal items such as the Olympus LS-10 :)
Don't know about the HR, but the R-09 reportedly doesn't set off most metal detectors or wands, probably b/c it's 95% plastic. 8) HR doesn't look much different. Anyone know for sure?
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Can anybody guess whether the Edirol R-09HR can be detected by metal detectors or not? Because we have those in our biggest concert venue :( They didn't react to my cheap (mostly plastic) camera that I had hidden in my pants so I'm somehow hoping the detectors detect only bigger metal items such as the Olympus LS-10 :)
Don't know about the HR, but the R-09 reportedly doesn't set off most metal detectors or wands, probably b/c it's 95% plastic. 8) HR doesn't look much different. Anyone know for sure?
If the R-09 does not set them off, the HR's not going to, either.
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Can anybody guess whether the Edirol R-09HR can be detected by metal detectors or not? Because we have those in our biggest concert venue :( They didn't react to my cheap (mostly plastic) camera that I had hidden in my pants so I'm somehow hoping the detectors detect only bigger metal items such as the Olympus LS-10 :)
Don't know about the HR, but the R-09 reportedly doesn't set off most metal detectors or wands, probably b/c it's 95% plastic. 8) HR doesn't look much different. Anyone know for sure?
That sounds great :) Now it's no. 1 on my shopping list - what a shame it's about $100 more expensive than the Olympus LS-10 :-( $399 vs. $299, that's quite a difference...
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Here's the photo that shows the door open:
http://www.edirol.com/images/stories/products/r09hr/r09hr_botton_card.jpg
That's not the battery door.
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That sounds great :) Now it's no. 1 on my shopping list - what a shame it's about $100 more expensive than the Olympus LS-10 :-( $399 vs. $299, that's quite a difference...
Do you mean to say that you can walk through a metal detector with cash and keys removed without setting off a detector?
Must by my buttons or my belt or my shoes that set off the signal, I guess... ???
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That sounds great :) Now it's no. 1 on my shopping list - what a shame it's about $100 more expensive than the Olympus LS-10 :-( $399 vs. $299, that's quite a difference...
Do you mean to say that you can walk through a metal detector with cash and keys removed without setting off a detector?
Must by my buttons or my belt or my shoes that set off the signal, I guess... ???
The belt can sometimes set off the signal but last time I walked through even with my belt on without any reaction from the detector (Kiss concert in Prague, CZ). Perhaps the detectors have various settings of how sensitive they are...
Anyway, if I buy an Edirol, it should be OK but if I get an Olympus, I will have to hide it in my pants and insist that the detector was set off by my belt :-)
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"that's not the battery compartment"
Dang, you're right. I still think of the compartment on the
bottom of the recorder to be the battery compartment,
like it was on the R-09. Here's the new R-09HR battery
compartment, on the back of the recorder:
http://www.solidstatesound.co.uk/R-09HR_Batcomp.jpg
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Can anybody guess whether the Edirol R-09HR can be detected by metal detectors or not? Because we have those in our biggest concert venue :( They didn't react to my cheap (mostly plastic) camera that I had hidden in my pants so I'm somehow hoping the detectors detect only bigger metal items such as the Olympus LS-10 :)
Don't know about the HR, but the R-09 reportedly doesn't set off most metal detectors or wands, probably b/c it's 95% plastic. 8) HR doesn't look much different. Anyone know for sure?
If the R-09 does not set them off, the HR's not going to, either.
I'll bring my HR to work one day this week and test it with the wand we have at the hospital. Will report back the results...
David
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That sounds great :) Now it's no. 1 on my shopping list - what a shame it's about $100 more expensive than the Olympus LS-10 :-( $399 vs. $299, that's quite a difference...
The LS-10 is noisy and not as good as the R-09HR.... you will get what you pay for with either of these, I guess it depends on what you want to hear (or not hear) after the show
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That sounds great :) Now it's no. 1 on my shopping list - what a shame it's about $100 more expensive than the Olympus LS-10 :-( $399 vs. $299, that's quite a difference...
The LS-10 is noisy and not as good as the R-09HR.... you will get what you pay for with either of these, I guess it depends on what you want to hear (or not hear) after the show
^^^^^^^
:coolguy:
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"the LS-10 is noisy and not as good..."
In high mic sensitivity mode, the LS-10 is more sensitive and noisier than the R-09HR set to high sensitivity. Switch the LS-10 to low sensitivity and higher record volume for best results.
As Guysonic showed, the LS-10 has a bass roll-off below 200 Hz. This helps in some circumstances, hurts in others. To my ear, the R-09HR sounds like it emphasizes bass a little, so it sounds warmer. If you like music with bass that rattles the dishes in the kitchen cabinets, you'll prefer results from the R-09HR.
Flintstone
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If you like music with bass that rattles the dishes in the kitchen cabinets, you'll prefer results from the R-09HR.
:realhappy: :yahoo: :coolguy: :clapping: :cheers:
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This looks like it will be a nice upgrade over the h120.
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In the field... ;D
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_HRKook.jpg)
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"The Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree..."
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"The Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree..."
:)
He sat anywhere he wanted really...
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_HRKook2.jpg)
BTW: I have now done some considerable experimentation with the internal mics of the HR for rainforest bird sounds, will post examples shortly.
digifish
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I have a pair of AT943s (SP-CMC-8s) and a SP-SPSB-1 battery box (with the bass roll off option)...
Simple question, if I'm looking to carry as little gear as possible, while still properly powering my mics for indie/rock concerts in anywhere from 200-person capacity clubs to arenas, do I have any chance of getting away with NOT using the battery box with the R-09HR? Or does the lack of power the R-09HR transmits to the mics completely prevent me from that sort of thing?
I guess I'm just curious as to what my options are as far as reducing my gear for low-pro jobs, and the settings I'll need to use on the R-09HR with those respective options.
It's been a long time since I've taped, largely because I didn't like the amount of gear I had to get into venues, though looking at the R-09 and realizing I could end up swapping out my UA-5 & JB3 for a battery box and the R-09 has got me itching to get back into the game. Thanks so much for any advice!
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I have a pair of AT943s (SP-CMC-8s) and a SP-SPSB-1 battery box (with the bass roll off option)...
Simple question, if I'm looking to carry as little gear as possible, while still properly powering my mics for indie/rock concerts in anywhere from 200-person capacity clubs to arenas, do I have any chance of getting away with NOT using the battery box with the R-09HR? Or does the lack of power the R-09HR transmits to the mics completely prevent me from that sort of thing?
I guess I'm just curious as to what my options are as far as reducing my gear for low-pro jobs, and the settings I'll need to use on the R-09HR with those respective options.
It's been a long time since I've taped, largely because I didn't like the amount of gear I had to get into venues, though looking at the R-09 and realizing I could end up swapping out my UA-5 & JB3 for a battery box and the R-09 has got me itching to get back into the game. Thanks so much for any advice!
Hi,
I would bring the bb. I like my mics to be properly powered.
Take care ;)
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I have a pair of AT943s (SP-CMC-8s) and a SP-SPSB-1 battery box (with the bass roll off option)...
Simple question, if I'm looking to carry as little gear as possible, while still properly powering my mics for indie/rock concerts in anywhere from 200-person capacity clubs to arenas, do I have any chance of getting away with NOT using the battery box with the R-09HR? Or does the lack of power the R-09HR transmits to the mics completely prevent me from that sort of thing?
I guess I'm just curious as to what my options are as far as reducing my gear for low-pro jobs, and the settings I'll need to use on the R-09HR with those respective options.
It's been a long time since I've taped, largely because I didn't like the amount of gear I had to get into venues, though looking at the R-09 and realizing I could end up swapping out my UA-5 & JB3 for a battery box and the R-09 has got me itching to get back into the game. Thanks so much for any advice!
Hi,
I would bring the bb. I like my mics to be properly powered.
Take care ;)
Well, right...
But are you saying that because of the actual necessity given the equipment specified? Or just as a general rule? Because I certainly agree with the latter, hence my question...though that doesn't dismiss the former :)
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I have a pair of AT943s (SP-CMC-8s) and a SP-SPSB-1 battery box (with the bass roll off option)...
Simple question, if I'm looking to carry as little gear as possible, while still properly powering my mics for indie/rock concerts in anywhere from 200-person capacity clubs to arenas, do I have any chance of getting away with NOT using the battery box with the R-09HR? Or does the lack of power the R-09HR transmits to the mics completely prevent me from that sort of thing?
I guess I'm just curious as to what my options are as far as reducing my gear for low-pro jobs, and the settings I'll need to use on the R-09HR with those respective options.
It's been a long time since I've taped, largely because I didn't like the amount of gear I had to get into venues, though looking at the R-09 and realizing I could end up swapping out my UA-5 & JB3 for a battery box and the R-09 has got me itching to get back into the game. Thanks so much for any advice!
A couple weeks ago I ran my CA STC-11s into the mic in on my R-09HR, low gain, plug-in power on, and recorded a set of a doomish metal band in a small bar/club. It was pretty damn loud, even with earplugs, and the recording turned out just fine (It actually sounded better than the Dragonforce show I taped earlier in the night at a 1000-1500 person theater,line-in with a battery box. I accidentally had the low cut on, so that recording sounded a bit thin.) The levels were peaking above -6db and, as I recall, I was running the input at around 70. So I think in a pinch you get by without a battery box as long your mics can handle bass well.
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Can anybody guess whether the Edirol R-09HR can be detected by metal detectors or not? Because we have those in our biggest concert venue :( They didn't react to my cheap (mostly plastic) camera that I had hidden in my pants so I'm somehow hoping the detectors detect only bigger metal items such as the Olympus LS-10 :)
Don't know about the HR, but the R-09 reportedly doesn't set off most metal detectors or wands, probably b/c it's 95% plastic. 8) HR doesn't look much different. Anyone know for sure?
I took my 09HR to work today and ran a test with a standard Garrett Wand and it failed at every location, even crotched. Don't count on getting through just because of the high plastic content...
David
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I have a pair of AT943s (SP-CMC-8s) and a SP-SPSB-1 battery box (with the bass roll off option)...
Simple question, if I'm looking to carry as little gear as possible, while still properly powering my mics for indie/rock concerts in anywhere from 200-person capacity clubs to arenas, do I have any chance of getting away with NOT using the battery box with the R-09HR? Or does the lack of power the R-09HR transmits to the mics completely prevent me from that sort of thing?
I guess I'm just curious as to what my options are as far as reducing my gear for low-pro jobs, and the settings I'll need to use on the R-09HR with those respective options.
It's been a long time since I've taped, largely because I didn't like the amount of gear I had to get into venues, though looking at the R-09 and realizing I could end up swapping out my UA-5 & JB3 for a battery box and the R-09 has got me itching to get back into the game. Thanks so much for any advice!
Hi,
I would bring the bb. I like my mics to be properly powered.
Take care ;)
Well, right...
But are you saying that because of the actual necessity given the equipment specified? Or just as a general rule? Because I certainly agree with the latter, hence my question...though that doesn't dismiss the former :)
Hello,
As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as a general rule in this hobby ;). Yes. your mics will work with plug in power. But with the regular 9v bb power, you (sort of) eliminate the chances of brickwalling in a realy loud show :P. Plus, with a bb, you can run Line In, which is usually cleaner sounding than Mic In. A bb is not really a problem in my case: I use a very, very, very small unit (size of a Zippo lighter).
Hope that helps.Take care. ;)
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Can anybody guess whether the Edirol R-09HR can be detected by metal detectors or not? Because we have those in our biggest concert venue :( They didn't react to my cheap (mostly plastic) camera that I had hidden in my pants so I'm somehow hoping the detectors detect only bigger metal items such as the Olympus LS-10 :)
Don't know about the HR, but the R-09 reportedly doesn't set off most metal detectors or wands, probably b/c it's 95% plastic. 8) HR doesn't look much different. Anyone know for sure?
I took my 09HR to work today and ran a test with a standard Garrett Wand and it failed at every location, even crotched. Don't count on getting through just because of the high plastic content...
David
Most brands of wands have a sensitivity setting (quite a few of the Garrett models). If you set the sensitivity to high, it will be set off by a dime in your pocket, or sometimes even a metal fly zipper. Most venues do not leave their wands set to high, because it would go off at almost anything. My experience has been that the R-09 does not set off wands, unless they are set to high sensitivity.
I'm still not sure why you care about setting off wands. Even if it does set it off it's not hard to get it in. Be creative, be assertive.
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Can anybody guess whether the Edirol R-09HR can be detected by metal detectors or not? Because we have those in our biggest concert venue :( They didn't react to my cheap (mostly plastic) camera that I had hidden in my pants so I'm somehow hoping the detectors detect only bigger metal items such as the Olympus LS-10 :)
Don't know about the HR, but the R-09 reportedly doesn't set off most metal detectors or wands, probably b/c it's 95% plastic. 8) HR doesn't look much different. Anyone know for sure?
I took my 09HR to work today and ran a test with a standard Garrett Wand and it failed at every location, even crotched. Don't count on getting through just because of the high plastic content...
David
Most brands of wands have a sensitivity setting (quite a few of the Garrett models). If you set the sensitivity to high, it will be set off by a dime in your pocket, or sometimes even a metal fly zipper. Most venues do not leave their wands set to high, because it would go off at almost anything. My experience has been that the R-09 does not set off wands, unless they are set to high sensitivity.
I'm still not sure why you care about setting off wands. Even if it does set it off it's not hard to get it in. Be creative, be assertive.
If I can get the 722 into 3 different venues that used wands with nothing going off or questions from security, the r09hr won't be a problem.
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If I can get the 722 into 3 different venues that used wands with nothing going off or questions from security, the r09hr won't be a problem.
George - what goes on between you and the security guards in the back room is your own business. :-X
j/k :laugh:
Personally, I don't worry about setting off metal detectors, happens quite a bit, never had a problem getting in.
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Well since its your recording, you should try it both ways. ::)
I have a pair of AT943s (SP-CMC-8s) and a SP-SPSB-1 battery box (with the bass roll off option)...
Simple question, if I'm looking to carry as little gear as possible, while still properly powering my mics for indie/rock concerts in anywhere from 200-person capacity clubs to arenas, do I have any chance of getting away with NOT using the battery box with the R-09HR? Or does the lack of power the R-09HR transmits to the mics completely prevent me from that sort of thing?
I guess I'm just curious as to what my options are as far as reducing my gear for low-pro jobs, and the settings I'll need to use on the R-09HR with those respective options.
It's been a long time since I've taped, largely because I didn't like the amount of gear I had to get into venues, though looking at the R-09 and realizing I could end up swapping out my UA-5 & JB3 for a battery box and the R-09 has got me itching to get back into the game. Thanks so much for any advice!
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I'm still not sure why you care about setting off wands. Even if it does set it off it's not hard to get it in. Be creative, be assertive.
Yes, I know how to hide the recorder that even if it sets off the alarm, they won't find it (because it's hidden... you know where ;-)) But I still prefer not to draw the attention of the security to me. Even if nobody in this country has any weapons, we still have very strict rules about taking photos or recording anything in our biggest arena (built only recently). The security is really tight for some unknown reason.
Anyway, I think I have decided and I'll buy the Edirol R-09HR.
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I'm still not sure why you care about setting off wands. Even if it does set it off it's not hard to get it in. Be creative, be assertive.
Yes, I know how to hide the recorder that even if it sets off the alarm, they won't find it (because it's hidden... you know where ;-)) But I still prefer not to draw the attention of the security to me. Even if nobody in this country has any weapons, we still have very strict rules about taking photos or recording anything in our biggest arena (built only recently). The security is really tight for some unknown reason.
Anyway, I think I have decided and I'll buy the Edirol R-09HR.
Great decision ;)
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Well since its your recording, you should try it both ways. ::)
Of course, I suppose my hurdle is getting over the thought process of not wanting to burn an opportunity for a good recording in lieu of experimentation :P
I think the answer's to go find some free shows in my area and play around...no time like the summer for that!
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Some new information from Roland below this reminder quote...
This is odd tho, I noticed some faint banding in the R09HR 100% mic spectrogram...
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_09vsHR_Mic100.jpg)
Looking at the histogram the spikes are visible, but on closer inspection they fall on the exact frequency intervals (1000 Hz increments).
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_R09HR_100MicIn.png)
So that's really wierd :o ...any suggestions? I can't imagine any real digital noise that would fall so neatly on the frequency divisions? An engineering mode in the firmware left on? I am using 1.04 ... what am I overlooking here?
digifish
AND guysonic's review... http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,106364.0.html
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35dBLOG44.1PIPvsR-09.gif)
show some strange low-level digi-noise in the mic-in path.
So I have heard back from Roland R&D Japan -
They note (as we know) that this noise is only an issue on the mic-in. They say that the specifications of the unit take this into account and that due to the small circuit board and design constraints (cost?) they found it impossible to remove this signal from the mic path. Further, it is mainly outside the audible range (> 20 kHz) and so is not considered a big issue in a recorder of this nature.
The statement that it's mainly outside the audible range is true if you record at 88.2/96 kHz but not at 44.1/48kHz, so I thought that a bit odd. Similarly why release a recorder with > 48 kHz sampling if you don't believe it is audible up there, ahhhhh the pressures of marketing requirements on the R&D department ;D
Just a reminder the line-in is free of this noise (and that on the HR mic-in, it is at a very low level, see guysonics graph above and so not audible under any circumstances I can find, including normalizing silence). As is clear the R09HR is far better overall than the R09 for mic-in specs that also include similar digi-noise.
digifish
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OK I have heard back from Roland R&D Japan -
They note (as we know) that this noise is only an issue on the mic-in. They say that the specifications of the unit take this into account and that due to the small circuit board they found it impossible to remove for the mic path. However, it is mainly outside the audible range (20 = kHz) and so is not considered a big issue in a recorder of this nature.
Just a reminder the line-in is free of this noise and the R09HR is better than the R09 for mic-in specs.
digifish
Thanks a lot for this ;)
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It's ironic to find this issue in a device labeled "High Resolution."
I suppose it's understandable that Edirol let the problem ride due to cost restraints. My feeling is that they noticed the issue late in the development cycle, and the pressure to get the design finished overrode any desire to fix the problem. Credit Voltaire:
"The perfect is the enemy of the good." We should acknowledge that the R-09HR is an improvement over the R-09.
Edirol touts the R-09HR's analog "Isolated Adaptive Recording Circuit" on a separate PC board from the digital electronics. Maybe in time Edirol will re-engineer this circuitry to fix the problem. A fix should be easy enough. Edirol only needs to purchase a couple of competitors' products that don't exhibit this problem, and reverse engineer a solution. From Guysonic's graphs, the Sony PCM-D50 looks to have this issue under better control.
Thanks for following up with this. T+
Flintstone
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It's ironic to find this issue in a device labeled "High Resolution."
I suppose it's understandable that Edirol let the problem ride due to cost restraints.
I got the feeling from the reply (in most polite Engrish (http://www.engrish.com/)) that the R&D guys see this as a consumer-level device and are slightly removed from the marketing surrounding their products. I think they were a little surprised that this issue was pointed out to them :)
digifish
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Please stay away from the Edirol R-09HR Silicone Rubber Case.
Looks nice, fits tight as a glove and provides good protection against scraches, but the thing is a dust magnet :o.
In a matter of minutes the silicone cover looks like a dust ball. I have cats in my house, so you can imagine how it looks like. :P
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in case you are curious, some size comparisons....
Sony D7, Edirol R-09, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-1
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in case you are curious, some size comparisons....
Sony D7, Edirol R-09, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-1
Looks like your DAT machine has been around for a little while. Good comparison picture.
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Please stay away from the Edirol R-09HR Silicone Rubber Case.
Looks nice, fits tight as a glove and provides good protection against scraches, but the thing is a dust magnet :o.
In a matter of minutes the silicone cover looks like a dust ball. I have cats in my house, so you can imagine how it looks like. :P
Maintenance tip, wipe it with a damp cloth (dishcloth is best)...the dust comes right off, easy...for 5 minutes :)
digifish
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Please stay away from the Edirol R-09HR Silicone Rubber Case.
Looks nice, fits tight as a glove and provides good protection against scraches, but the thing is a dust magnet :o.
In a matter of minutes the silicone cover looks like a dust ball. I have cats in my house, so you can imagine how it looks like. :P
Maintenance tip, wipe it with a damp cloth (dishcloth is best)...the dust comes right off, easy...for 5 minutes :)
digifish
;D ;D ;D.
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In case anyone is curious, I just bought an A-Data 16gb class 6 card, and it formatted and is working in the HR with no issues. I am running a test now.
Formatted it shows 7hr 40m 48sec running at 24/96.
Most people like Newegg, here is a link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211245
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In case anyone is curious, I just bought an A-Data 16gb class 6 card, and it formatted and is working in the HR with no issues. I am running a test now.
Formatted it shows 7hr 40m 48sec running at 24/96.
Most people like Newegg, here is a link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211245
Aren't the R-09 and R-09HR both compatible with 16gb and 32gb SDHC cards? 16gb Transcend works great in my R-09. 8)
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not sure, but I thought I would help someone else out....
i do know that not all CF cards work in all decks, like my Marantz 671 will not work with the 16gb A-Data CF card
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that is curious... I have 2 of those cards and I can't get them to reliably record 24/96. They'll go for hours, then I'll randomly get the "slow card" error. I've been able to fill it continuously at 24/96 a few times, but I'm not confident running it at 24/96 in the field. Could you run a few more tests, but this time stop and restart recordings a few times along the way. What firmware are you running?
In case anyone is curious, I just bought an A-Data 16gb class 6 card, and it formatted and is working in the HR with no issues. I am running a test now.
Formatted it shows 7hr 40m 48sec running at 24/96.
Most people like Newegg, here is a link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211245
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not sure, but I thought I would help someone else out....
i do know that not all CF cards work in all decks, like my Marantz 671 will not work with the 16gb A-Data CF card
the r09 and r09hr use SD cards, not CF's.
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not sure, but I thought I would help someone else out....
i do know that not all CF cards work in all decks, like my Marantz 671 will not work with the 16gb A-Data CF card
the r09 and r09hr use SD cards, not CF's.
I am aware, I am just making a comparison of decks and cards not always working together
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I have the latest firmware, 1.04.
Took the card out of the package, formatted it in the R09hr and then hit record.... I will have to recharge the AA's and run another test over the weekend.
that is curious... I have 2 of those cards and I can't get them to reliably record 24/96. They'll go for hours, then I'll randomly get the "slow card" error. I've been able to fill it continuously at 24/96 a few times, but I'm not confident running it at 24/96 in the field. Could you run a few more tests, but this time stop and restart recordings a few times along the way. What firmware are you running?
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Just a reminder the line-in is free of this noise (and that on the HR mic-in, it is at a very low level, see guysonics graph above and so not audible under any circumstances I can find, including normalizing silence). As is clear the R09HR is far better overall than the R09 for mic-in specs that also include similar digi-noise.
I've been following the ongoing testing. Big thanks to all involved especially digifish and guysonic for the hard data. It seems it's been well established that despite the imperfections, the HR has improved mic-in performance. Yet there is one thing I've wondered that hasn't been addressed directly and is frankly like a invisible purple elephant standing in the corner of the Taperssection clubhouse-
Is the R-09HR any better than the original R-09 recording a line-input at a conservative mid-range gain setting?
(when making a 24/48 or 24/44.1 recording on both machines with a conservative line-in gain setting of 13-17 on the R-09 and whatever the equivalent gain setting would be on the R-09HR)
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Looking at the graphs in Guysonic's reviews of the R-09 and R-09HR,
it looks to me like the two recorders' line in performance is about the same.
Edirol R-09 http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm
Edirol R-09HR http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm
Flintstone
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Hmmm..
Maybe we need same type of graphs for just the line inputs for R09 and R09HR to be able to compare well.
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Just a reminder the line-in is free of this noise (and that on the HR mic-in, it is at a very low level, see guysonics graph above and so not audible under any circumstances I can find, including normalizing silence). As is clear the R09HR is far better overall than the R09 for mic-in specs that also include similar digi-noise.
I've been following the ongoing testing. Big thanks to all involved especially digifish and guysonic for the hard data. It seems it's been well established that despite the imperfections, the HR has improved mic-in performance. Yet there is one thing I've wondered that hasn't been addressed directly and is frankly like a invisible purple elephant standing in the corner of the Taperssection clubhouse-
Is the R-09HR any better than the original R-09 recording a line-input at a conservative mid-range gain setting?
(when making a 24/48 or 24/44.1 recording on both machines with a conservative line-in gain setting of 13-17 on the R-09 and whatever the equivalent gain setting would be on the R-09HR)
By better do you mean less noise or better sound (or both)? I did a line-in comp a while back where I, and some others, preferred the R-09HR line-in sound. Didn't specifically measure noise, though, and I no longer have the R-09 for testing.
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Just a reminder the line-in is free of this noise (and that on the HR mic-in, it is at a very low level, see guysonics graph above and so not audible under any circumstances I can find, including normalizing silence). As is clear the R09HR is far better overall than the R09 for mic-in specs that also include similar digi-noise.
I've been following the ongoing testing. Big thanks to all involved especially digifish and guysonic for the hard data. It seems it's been well established that despite the imperfections, the HR has improved mic-in performance. Yet there is one thing I've wondered that hasn't been addressed directly and is frankly like a invisible purple elephant standing in the corner of the Taperssection clubhouse-
Is the R-09HR any better than the original R-09 recording a line-input at a conservative mid-range gain setting?
(when making a 24/48 or 24/44.1 recording on both machines with a conservative line-in gain setting of 13-17 on the R-09 and whatever the equivalent gain setting would be on the R-09HR)
By better do you mean less noise or better sound (or both)? I did a line-in comp a while back where I, and some others, preferred the R-09HR line-in sound. Didn't specifically measure noise, though, and I no longer have the R-09 for testing.
I remember your comp (thanks for that ;)). Well, I have both units. The R-09HR sounds way better than the R-09 ( which is great recorder BTW). I only use Line In. R-09HR is warmer, has a beautiful tight bass and is more transparent. At this time, to my ears, the graphs really doesn't matter that much. ;)
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Thanks for the opinions, that's what I was hunting for. Were those comps posted earlier in this thread and are they still available?
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Thanks for the opinions, that's what I was hunting for. Were those comps posted earlier in this thread and are they still available?
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,104920.15.html
I think that this is what you're looking for. ;)
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Hmmm..
Maybe we need same type of graphs for just the line inputs for R09 and R09HR to be able to compare well.
Here is the R-09 verses R-09HR LINE input noise plots at -35dB reference input gain using my own PA-3SX preamplifier set at highest 36dB gain.
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35dbR09HRvsR09LINE(LOG).gif)
Both decks look virtually identical, but R-09HR seems to have more high frequency bandwidth a might be expected of a deck capable of 88.2K/96K recording mode.
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Ahh. Thanks to both of you.
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Two samples.Opinions are more than welcome ;)
MM HLSO-1 Micro (Senn MKE 2) > BB > Edirol R-09HR
Line In 24/96 ( 16/41, Track and Normalize with Sound Studio)
Not exactly a venue, but a room for pocket shows ( 90 seated persons) on a big books/music megastore. No PA, just two guitar amps, one bass amp and a drum kit. In other words, my kind of place. Bass and drums in civilized volume. Guitar, not so much. I'm a guitar player. I know we just can't help ourselves when it comes to volume ;D. The guitar in the left channel almost screwed my left ear hearing.
Anyway, the (very small) stage is only 2 feet high and I was seated on the first row, like 3 feet from the stage lip, dangerously closed, considering the guitar amps they were using.
http://rapidshare.com/files/131221088/Track05.flac.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/131226150/Track07.flac.html
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hello
tryin to decide between R09HR and Tascam DR1..
I ve already checked some topics on tapersection, also google but no step further..
line-in looks kind of similar, what about the noise and sound of built-in mics?
some audio comparison?
thanks
m ???
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Just bought the new Edirol R-09HR and now need to get a few cards for it. Does anyone know if these are likely to work? If so, you can't beat these prices.
http://www.supermediastore.com/pqi-sdhc-8gb-class-6-memory-card.html#description
http://www.supermediastore.com/apacer-8gb-class-6-sd-high-capacity-sdhc-memory-card.html
Also, is there some general rule of thumb to use in deciding what types of SD cards are suitable? Thanks.
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Just bought the new Edirol R-09HR and now need to get a few cards for it. Does anyone know if these are likely to work? If so, you can't beat these prices.
http://www.supermediastore.com/pqi-sdhc-8gb-class-6-memory-card.html#description
http://www.supermediastore.com/apacer-8gb-class-6-sd-high-capacity-sdhc-memory-card.html
Also, is there some general rule of thumb to use in deciding what types of SD cards are suitable? Thanks.
I have only one rule. I always buy stuff that never give me headaches.In my case, Kingston memory cards ;)
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hello
tryin to decide between R09HR and Tascam DR1..
I ve already checked some topics on tapersection, also google but no step further..
line-in looks kind of similar, what about the noise and sound of built-in mics?
some audio comparison?
thanks
m ???
No comparison, but I just uploaded this 320 kbps R09HR internal mic field-recording at Freesound. IMO this is perfectly acceptable, whereas the R09 original would have sucked hissed under the same conditions :)
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=57857
(you will need to create a free account to download the raw sample)
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Just bought the new Edirol R-09HR and now need to get a few cards for it. Does anyone know if these are likely to work? If so, you can't beat these prices.
http://www.supermediastore.com/pqi-sdhc-8gb-class-6-memory-card.html#description
http://www.supermediastore.com/apacer-8gb-class-6-sd-high-capacity-sdhc-memory-card.html
Also, is there some general rule of thumb to use in deciding what types of SD cards are suitable? Thanks.
Received my Kingston 8GB SDHC card yesterday. Works perfectly. Like $ 35.00 on ebay.
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http://www.supermediastore.com/adata-16gb-class-6-turbo-sdhc-sd-card.html works for me, I have run 2 tests and not had any issues with the card.
One test was a straight record until the batteries died (just under 7 hours) and one where I ran 50-90 minutes and then stopped and restarted (more like a festival situation) and it filled the card before the batteries even died.
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Here's yet another R-09HR podcast from http://blindcooltech.com/
Two Short Trains
7/19/2008 Neal Ewers
shares two short, quick Amtrak trains recorded to make you think you are there. 3.7 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1218TwoShortTrains.mp3
He's using the internal mics during the intro and the some DPA mics for the trains.
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Ok, is the new Edirol recorder better in sound quality to the older model? Is Edirol’s new I.A.R.C. something that actually works as promised, or is it just a marketing ploy? Is there now less hiss when recording with internal mics?
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Ok, is the new Edirol recorder better in sound quality to the older model?
Is Edirol’s new I.A.R.C. something that actually works as promised, or is it just a marketing ploy?
Is there now less hiss when recording with internal mics?
Yes :coolguy:
I don't know ???
Yes ;)
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I just held the R-09HR in my hand at a local store in Vienna and messed around with it a bit.
Looks and feels a lot better than the old R-09.
Anybody knows unity gain yet on the scale from 0-80?
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Anybody knows unity gain yet on the scale from 0-80?
I would also like to know this as well...
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What is unity gain?
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What is unity gain?
Where the pre-amp in the recorder is neither adding or reducing gain. The idea being that you set the recorder to unity gain and use an external pre-amp to control gain.
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I just held the R-09HR in my hand at a local store in Vienna and messed around with it a bit.
Looks and feels a lot better than the old R-09.
I knew it! You're going to get one, my friend ;D ;D ;D
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Anybody knows unity gain yet on the scale from 0-80?
I would also like to know this as well...
Last news: something around 50 to 56.
I find it too high (in my absolute lack of technical knowledge :P)
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Last news: something around 50 to 56.
I find it too high (in my absolute lack of technical knowledge :P)
If it is to high, set it to 1.
It is just a number. Not a straight dB scale.
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Last news: something around 50 to 56.
I find it too high (in my absolute lack of technical knowledge :P)
If it is to high, set it to 1.
It is just a number. Not a straight dB scale.
I have been using the default 40 (line in). I am highly confident that this setting is providing excellent S/N ratios. BTW: It's a line-level input so I am not sure at unity gain (if that even makes sense for this input) or being 10 units either side of it (30 to 50) will make any real difference.
digifish
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If it is to high, set it to 1.
It is just a number. Not a straight dB scale.
I have been using the default 40 (line in). I am highly confident that this setting is providing excellent S/N ratios. BTW: It's a line-level input so I am not sure at unity gain (if that even makes sense for this input) or being 10 units either side of it (30 to 50) will make any real difference.
Indeed. The performance of the amplification/attenuation will be quite OK and maybe deteriorate at the edged of the range. Dunno, not sure. Maybe additional graps can give more insights.
I mean: a few numbers/dB's up or down won't make a big (audible) difference in quality (SNR, THD, etc).
(I did not start the unity quest...) I just set the device for the value that gives me nice levels and some headroom.
This means, in my case, I have to attenuate I guess. So no unity at all for me.
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I have been using the default 40 (line in). I am highly confident that this setting is providing excellent S/N ratios. BTW: It's a line-level input so I am not sure at unity gain (if that even makes sense for this input) or being 10 units either side of it (30 to 50) will make any real difference.
digifish
40? That`s basically my setup.
The only thing that really matters to me is stay away from digital attenuation ( the set to 1 or lower set ups sugestion is something I wouldn't do). Several respected TS members have made it clear: if you have to attenuate, use your preamp, not your recorder.
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The only thing that really matters to me is stay away from digital attenuation ( the set to 1 or lower set ups sugestion is something I wouldn't do). Several respected TS members have made it clear: if you have to attenuate, use your preamp, not your recorder.
Please read the datasheet for the codec used in the HR. Not much digital attenuation for the HR that I could discern:
The analogue PGA has a range of +24dB to -21dB in 0.5dB steps. The digital gain control allows
further attenuation (after the ADC) from -21.5dB to -103dB in 0.5dB steps. Table 15 shows how the
register maps the analogue and digital gains.
Combine that info with the review at Sonic Studios, stating:
LINE +28 dBu -12 dBu
and default level (53) being extrapolated to be at around 2 dBu for 0dBFS.
If the default level is indeed unity levels beyond 11 or so would not be analog attenuation.
This would mean that you have to go to the very extremes of attenuation to perhaps find digital attenuation. (this being unnecessary because of the codec's 40+ dB gain/attenuation range)
Maybe others can verify and confirm?
BTW: In my case there is no pre.
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Last night, I recorded the first act at 44 and the second act at 42. Came home with beautiful levels . . . . won't even need to touch them. Moderate sound level at the show: It was Los Lobos and Los Lonely Boys. I was centered in the 15th row.
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The only thing that really matters to me is stay away from digital attenuation ( the set to 1 or lower set ups sugestion is something I wouldn't do). Several respected TS members have made it clear: if you have to attenuate, use your preamp, not your recorder.
Please read the datasheet for the codec used in the HR. Not much digital attenuation for the HR that I could discern:
The analogue PGA has a range of +24dB to -21dB in 0.5dB steps. The digital gain control allows
further attenuation (after the ADC) from -21.5dB to -103dB in 0.5dB steps. Table 15 shows how the
register maps the analogue and digital gains.
Combine that info with the review at Sonic Studios, stating:
LINE +28 dBu -12 dBu
and default level (53) being extrapolated to be at around 2 dBu for 0dBFS.
If the default level is indeed unity levels beyond 11 or so would not be analog attenuation.
This would mean that you have to go to the very extremes of attenuation to perhaps find digital attenuation. (this being unnecessary because of the codec's 40+ dB gain/attenuation range)
Maybe others can verify and confirm?
BTW: In my case there is no pre.
Thanks for the info ;)
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Please read the datasheet for the codec used in the HR. Not much digital attenuation for the HR that I could discern:
Interesting, do you have a link to this sheet?
Thanks!
digifish
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R09HR Podcasts @ Blind Cool Tech
Just linking this in here for the record...
Edirol R09 HR Overview (http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1206EdirolR09HROverview.mp3) 26.9 MB (192 kbps)
6/8/2008 Neal Ewers
describes and demonstrates this new high quality digital recorder from Edirol.
AND
Edirol R09 HR vs Zoom H2 vs Sony D50 Microphone Tests (http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1207EdirolR09HRMicrophoneTests.mp3) 33.0 MB (192 kbps)
6/10/2008 Neal Ewers
AND
Compares R09 and R09HR
R09HR Compared (http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1208R09Compared.mp3) 45.8 MB (192 kbps)
6/11/2008 Rory Hoffman
compiles recordings of comprehensive tests between the original R09 recorder and the new HR version from Edirol.
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Please read the datasheet for the codec used in the HR. Not much digital attenuation for the HR that I could discern:
Interesting, do you have a link to this sheet?
http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/WM8776/
I have the chip number from when photo's of a disassembled HR were posted here.
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Please read the datasheet for the codec used in the HR. Not much digital attenuation for the HR that I could discern:
Interesting, do you have a link to this sheet?
http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/WM8776/
I have the chip number from when photo's of a disassembled HR were posted here.
Thanks +T
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R09HR Podcasts @ Blind Cool Tech
Just linking this in here for the record...
They're also on page 7 of this thread, except for the last link which I left out :)
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R09HR Podcasts @ Blind Cool Tech
Just linking this in here for the record...
They're also on page 7 of this thread, except for the last link which I left out :)
DOH! :)
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R09HR Podcasts @ Blind Cool Tech
Just linking this in here for the record...
They're also on page 7 of this thread, except for the last link which I left out :)
DOH! :)
In my never ending search, I have to ask: what is DOH?
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In my never ending search, I have to ask: what is DOH?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%27oh! ?
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In my never ending search, I have to ask: what is DOH?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%27oh! ?
Thanks ;)
+T
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Here's a good sample of the R-09HR with quality mics and preamp - Eric Idle with the Houston Symphony.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,107777.0.html
The symphony is were 24 bit really shines - the dynamic range is huge. The R-09HR sounds pretty good to me and I'm happy with the results.
Note - nothing has been done to the 24/48 fileset other than fades.
enjoy!
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What's the problem with the battery door in the 09HR version and how is it worst than on the older 09?
Can this problem be fixed somehow?
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I think the problem people had with the R-09 is that when you open the door to attach a USB cable or change the SDHC card, the batteries can fall out. The R-09HR moves the batteries to a separate compartment, so that problem is solved.
The R-09HR's battery door is a sliding plastic cover, like on many electronic gizmos. When you open the battery compartment, the door comes completely off. Some people complain about the possibility of losing the cover. No big deal.
Flintstone
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I think the problem people had with the R-09 is that when you open the door to attach a USB cable or change the SDHC card, the batteries can fall out. The R-09HR moves the batteries to a separate compartment, so that problem is solved.
That is very good.
The R-09HR's battery door is a sliding plastic cover, like on many electronic gizmos. When you open the battery compartment, the door comes completely off. Some people complain about the possibility of losing the cover. No big deal.
Perhaps a short nylon loop string might be added, through a small hole in the plastic, would prevent that from happening.
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The R-09HR's battery door is a sliding plastic cover, like on many electronic gizmos. When you open the battery compartment, the door comes completely off. Some people complain about the possibility of losing the cover. No big deal.
Perhaps a short nylon loop string might be added, through a small hole in the plastic, would prevent that from happening.
When I get mine, I'll just be using a small piece of gaffer tape. haha
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FWIW, the battery door on all of my R09 had no issues and I never had any batteries fall out!
On the R09HR, the door does come off (as designed, not sure why) but when it locks on, it is just fine.
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I don´t see the batterydoor as a problem. Should be easy enough to make your own "lock" for it. Since the door is pushed upwards to release it you just put something in the space above the door and it can´t be opened. Only problem might be that the door might break easier if you drop the recorder.
Anyway, got mine a few days ago and tried it out in the field yesterday making a stealth 24/96 recording. Worked like a charm.
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Not the best design, but black tape does the job for me !
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I'm testing my new HR at the moment, and let it ran for about 4h at 24/96 on a 8GB card.
Got 4 seperate files now. How to make one big file of this in for example Adobe aud. v3.0?
Some people have already taped with it. How to deal with this 'problem'?
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How to make one big file of this in for example Adobe aud. v3.0?
Copy, paste?
Or save as raw and copy together on the cli?
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addawav
I'm testing my new HR at the moment, and let it ran for about 4h at 24/96 on a 8GB card.
Got 4 seperate files now. How to make one big file of this in for example Adobe aud. v3.0?
Some people have already taped with it. How to deal with this 'problem'?
-
addawav
I'm testing my new HR at the moment, and let it ran for about 4h at 24/96 on a 8GB card.
Got 4 seperate files now. How to make one big file of this in for example Adobe aud. v3.0?
Some people have already taped with it. How to deal with this 'problem'?
thanks
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FWIW
I have recorded at the following volume levels with no issues in sound quality (that i can see or hear):
52
32
30
20
all in different situations and scenarios, all with external mics and pre
-
addawav
How can this work?
The WAVs are 2GB each. 4 of them are 8GB.
The WAV format is limited to 2 or maybe 4GB.
So what format is the output in?
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what i do is open all of the different wav files separately, then copy/paste them into one huge file in soundforge
i then do all of my editing, normalizing, etc... then i break out no more than 80 min of tracks into new wav files and then save them back to a new directory. i then use these files to CDWav them up.
at least with windows, you are limited to 2gb wav files, so you are unable to put them all back together to save the one 'mega' file
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what i do is open all of the different wav files separately, then copy/paste them into one huge file in soundforge
i then do all of my editing, normalizing, etc... then i break out no more than 80 min of tracks into new wav files and then save them back to a new directory. i then use these files to CDWav them up.
at least with windows, you are limited to 2gb wav files, so you are unable to put them all back together to save the one 'mega' file
I'd like to add something here. At least with Sound Studio, you can't use some editing features with a 24/96 file. In order to listen to a preview of your EQ curve, you have to to dither to 48. Yes, you can EQ a 24/96 file, but you can't listen to a Preview. Weird. ???
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I made 2 test-recordings of the same source at the same gain-level:
1. Mic -in
2. Line-in
Result:
Mic-in recording is about +20dB hotter than the line-in.
Mic-in-peaks where at -10db on the levelmeter.
Line-in-peaks at -30dB.
Gain was set to 40 on the R-09HR using my sp-cmc-8 + battery box.
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personally I never EQ (as everyone's ears are different, and you can always use your own EQ on your own stereo, but I know you can preview changes in SF at 24/96
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personally I never EQ (as everyone's ears are different, and you can always use your own EQ on your own stereo, but I know you can preview changes in SF at 24/96
EQ? I`m not saying that I do that all the time. Only when it`s necessary. ;)
Thanks for your response :coolguy:
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Well, on the EQ each to his/her own, thats for sure.... but just my 2 cents
You are welcome
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Well, on the EQ each to his/her own, thats for sure.... but just my 2 cents
You are welcome
:coolguy:
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:spin:
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Some more experiments, that I did for another Tapers Section member (flintstone)...
Rig1 (internal mic pres): Clock -> AT3032 mics -> ART II Phantom power supply -> Mic in R09HR (Gain 55/80 ~ 68%, 24 bit, 44.1 kHz) -20dB peaks.
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_AT-ART-09HR.jpg)
Rig2 (external mic pres): Clock -> AT3032 mics -> MixPre (Gain 7.5/10 ~75%) -> Line in R09HR (Gain 40, 24 bit, 44.1 kHz) -20 dB peaks.
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_AT-MP-09HR.jpg)
Here's the recordings, 10 ticks - Rig1 (internal pres) followed by Rig 2 (external pres).
www.digifishmusic.com/public/sounds/Ticking-Clock_10xR09Pre-10xMixPrePre.wav (3.6 Meg 16 bit WAV file).
The above file is a compilation of the raw recordings back-to-back. No normalization. Here's how it looks as a spectrogram...
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_09HRvsMixPre.jpg)
digifish
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Digifish's test results show very clearly the low level of self-noise of the
R-09HR's built-in preamp when used with good external mics.
The results also show that even lower self-noise is possible
with a high quality external preamp (the MixPre in this example).
This result says to me that the R-09HR will produce very good results using
external mics and a battery box (here, a $50 item) when recording loud
material (amplified music, loud orchestral pieces, etc).
When your subject is less loud (unamplified music, nature sounds, speech),
your recordings will benefit from the addition of an external amp
($665 in this example).
You can see from Digifish's photo that the overall size of the recorder,
cables and preamp is about the same as the recorder/cables/battery box.
You could easily velcro the R-09HR to the top of the other box to
simplify carrying it around.
Flintstone
-
Digifish's test results show very clearly the low level of self-noise of the
R-09HR's built-in preamp when used with good external mics.
The results also show that even lower self-noise is possible
with a high quality external preamp (the MixPre in this example).
This result says to me that the R-09HR will produce very good results using
external mics and a battery box (here, a $50 item) when recording loud
material (amplified music, loud orchestral pieces, etc).
When your subject is less loud (unamplified music, nature sounds, speech),
your recordings will benefit from the addition of an external amp
($665 in this example).
You can see from Digifish's photo that the overall size of the recorder,
cables and preamp is about the same as the recorder/cables/battery box.
You could easily velcro the R-09HR to the top of the other box to
simplify carrying it around.
Flintstone
So when are you going to have a 09HR for me to buy from you or a mixpre? ;D
I love my h120 I bought from you, William!
Can't wait to get the 09HR
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Digifish's test results show very clearly the low level of self-noise of the
R-09HR's built-in preamp when used with good external mics.
...
Flintstone
I'd agree with that. The internal pres do a very good job (from a hiss/noise perspective they are at first impression similar to the R44, something to find out). Remember that the ticking-clock test is a tough and revealing comparison. I am confident that for recording most bands, that you would not need anything more than an R09HR + Phantom-box + nice mics.
I will be making some field recordings of things at various levels over the next week or so. As I have an R09, R09HR, R44. All have internal mics so...
R09 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
R09HR - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
R44 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
...would seem to be in line for direct comparison.
digifish
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Digifish's test results show very clearly the low level of self-noise of the
R-09HR's built-in preamp when used with good external mics.
...
Flintstone
I'd agree with that. The internal pres do a very good job (from a hiss/noise perspective they are at first impression similar to the R44, something to find out). Remember that the ticking-clock test is a tough revealing and tough comparison. I am confident that for recording most bands, that you would not need anything more than an R09HR + Phantom-box + nice mics.
I will be making some field recordings of things at various levels over the next week or so. As I have an R09, R09HR, R44. All have internal mics so...
R09 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
R09HR - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
R44 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
...would seem to be in line for direct comparison.
digifish
For "hot" mics, like Beyerdynamic MC930, R09 works great.
Richard
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One thing I don't like about the R-09HR is the fact that it's using 1/8" jacks for mic and line in.
But it's in the same bunch as most other small recorders, except the Zoom H4 and the MT 1 and 2, which provide XLR or 1/4" jacks.
The new 09HR 1/8" jacks seem to be better than the 09's, but I wonder if they couldn't be upgraded to locking 1/8" types. I asked this very same question to Guysonic, but he hasn't yet answered it.
If you are not familiar with such connector, it's hasn't yet become a standard but it's used on some video cameras (Sony HDV F1) and on some wireless mics from Sony, Sennheiser and Comtek. If you have never seen it, the jack's collar is slightly longer and the corresponding plug has a cap that is also long and threads on the jack. By doing so it prevents one of the problems in 1/8" systems, which is the plug moving in the jack, which may cause noise and/or miscontact. It also prevents the connector from being accidentally unplugged.
Even if I am pretty sure most of you are aware of the 1/8" system maladies, I wonder how you deal with it. As these connectors become problematic after they take a lot of plugging/unplugging, the jack losing springiness, it's advisable to leave a short cable adaptor all the time.
You implement a short cable, which you velcro to the back of the unit, with a 1/8" or 1/4" or XLR on the other end, which is the one you actually plug and unplug. When you are using tight fit 1/8" plugs, then these contact problems improve a lot. But I still think a locking 1/8" jack would improve things further.
What I don't know is if this locking jack will fit the 09HR box after it's soldered to the pcb. Warranty will also be void by doing this mod, unfortunately, if noticed.
In any case this is a mod that could be implemented in most units having 1/8" jacks that are continuously plugged/unplugged.
-
One thing I don't like about the R-09HR is the fact that it's using 1/8" jacks for mic and line in.
But it's in the same bunch as most other small recorders, except the Zoom H4 and the MT 1 and 2, which provide XLR or 1/4" jacks.
The new 09HR 1/8" jacks seem to be better than the 09's, but I wonder if they couldn't be upgraded to locking 1/8" types. I asked this very same question to Guysonic, but he hasn't yet answered it.
If you are not familiar with such connector, it's hasn't yet become a standard but it's used on some video cameras (Sony HDV F1) and on some wireless mics from Sony, Sennheiser and Comtek. If you have never seen it, the jack's collar is slightly longer and the corresponding plug has a cap that is also long and threads on the jack. By doing so it prevents one of the problems in 1/8" systems, which is the plug moving in the jack, which may cause noise and/or miscontact. It also prevents the connector from being accidentally unplugged.
Even if I am pretty sure most of you are aware of the 1/8" system maladies, I wonder how you deal with it. As these connectors become problematic after they take a lot of plugging/unplugging, the jack losing springiness, it's advisable to leave a short cable adaptor all the time.
You implement a short cable, which you velcro to the back of the unit, with a 1/8" or 1/4" or XLR on the other end, which is the one you actually plug and unplug. When you are using tight fit 1/8" plugs, then these contact problems improve a lot. But I still think a locking 1/8" jack would improve things further.
What I don't know is if this locking jack will fit the 09HR box after it's soldered to the pcb. Warranty will also be void by doing this mod, unfortunately, if noticed.
In any case this is a mod that could be implemented in most units having 1/8" jacks that are continuously plugged/unplugged.
I've solved the jack problem on the R09 (original one) by putting a short (6") extender cable: right angle male plug into edirol (hot melt glue added to secure it), 6" cable, then female miniplug. So, it is a little pigtail, one for headphone and one for mic in. Saves wear and tear on the unit. Someone (Chris Church, you listening?) should sell these. Remember the hot melt glue!!!
Richard
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One thing I don't like about the R-09HR is the fact that it's using 1/8" jacks for mic and line in.
But it's in the same bunch as most other small recorders, except the Zoom H4 and the MT 1 and 2, which provide XLR or 1/4" jacks.
The new 09HR 1/8" jacks seem to be better than the 09's, but I wonder if they couldn't be upgraded to locking 1/8" types. I asked this very same question to Guysonic, but he hasn't yet answered it.
If you are not familiar with such connector, it's hasn't yet become a standard but it's used on some video cameras (Sony HDV F1) and on some wireless mics from Sony, Sennheiser and Comtek. If you have never seen it, the jack's collar is slightly longer and the corresponding plug has a cap that is also long and threads on the jack. By doing so it prevents one of the problems in 1/8" systems, which is the plug moving in the jack, which may cause noise and/or miscontact. It also prevents the connector from being accidentally unplugged.
Even if I am pretty sure most of you are aware of the 1/8" system maladies, I wonder how you deal with it. As these connectors become problematic after they take a lot of plugging/unplugging, the jack losing springiness, it's advisable to leave a short cable adaptor all the time.
You implement a short cable, which you velcro to the back of the unit, with a 1/8" or 1/4" or XLR on the other end, which is the one you actually plug and unplug. When you are using tight fit 1/8" plugs, then these contact problems improve a lot. But I still think a locking 1/8" jack would improve things further.
What I don't know is if this locking jack will fit the 09HR box after it's soldered to the pcb. Warranty will also be void by doing this mod, unfortunately, if noticed.
In any case this is a mod that could be implemented in most units having 1/8" jacks that are continuously plugged/unplugged.
I've solved the jack problem on the R09 (original one) by putting a short (6") extender cable: right angle male plug into edirol (hot melt glue added to secure it), 6" cable, then female miniplug. So, it is a little pigtail, one for headphone and one for mic in. Saves wear and tear on the unit. Someone (Chris Church, you listening?) should sell these. Remember the hot melt glue!!!
Richard
I also use the same male-female short cable. Microphone Madness sell those as well.
But I'm not a brave soul, not hot melt glue for me, please ;D
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I'm getting ready to tape my second show ever, and I've got a question about setting levels. Since I'm using a R-09HR, I thought I'd ask it here to get gear specific answers. Hope that's OK.
Rest of gear:
mics: SP-CMC-22 (cardioids)
batt box: SP-SPSB-9 (with an in-line level control)
What I'm concerned about is this: when testing, I can't seem to do anything to get the thing to peak. My understanding is that I want to get things set just under peak and use that. Now maybe, with home audio equipment, as opposed to live concert, it won't ever be loud enough, but that's why I'm asking. Here's what I've tried:
1) the one show I recorded was an opera. I was in the first row, 10 feet from orchestra. With batt box line in at max and recorder at max, the level indicators were going up to about the 40 mark (is that -40dB?)
2)Testing at home, playing Keb Mo on my computer, with Bose speakers turned to their max volume, mics about 3 ft away, batt box level at max, same with edirol:
a) batt box, mic in: levels reach about 30-25
b) batt box, line in: levels reach about 35-30
c) no batt box, mic in, plug-in power on: levels reach about 12
Listening back with headphones on the edirol, the last one sounded the best.
So my question is this: is this normal? It seems odd to me that I'd need to set the Edirol at max (80) to basically recorder anything that is of sort of normal volume. Since I bought it to record loud shows and since boosting is always possible, I'm not terribly concerned. But I do want to understand my equipment and process, and, especially, find out if there's something I'm doing wrong.
Oh, all the back of the recorder buttons were off, except when I used the plug-in power mentioned above.
Thanks for any insights, advice, etc. Don't know how I'd function without this place.
-
I'm getting ready to tape my second show ever, and I've got a question about setting levels. Since I'm using a R-09HR, I thought I'd ask it here to get gear specific answers. Hope that's OK.
Rest of gear:
mics: SP-CMC-22 (cardioids)
batt box: SP-SPSB-9 (with an in-line level control)
What I'm concerned about is this: when testing, I can't seem to do anything to get the thing to peak. My understanding is that I want to get things set just under peak and use that. Now maybe, with home audio equipment, as opposed to live concert, it won't ever be loud enough, but that's why I'm asking. Here's what I've tried:
1) the one show I recorded was an opera. I was in the first row, 10 feet from orchestra. With batt box line in at max and recorder at max, the level indicators were going up to about the 40 mark (is that -40dB?)
2)Testing at home, playing Keb Mo on my computer, with Bose speakers turned to their max volume, mics about 3 ft away, batt box level at max, same with edirol:
a) batt box, mic in: levels reach about 30-25
b) batt box, line in: levels reach about 35-30
c) no batt box, mic in, plug-in power on: levels reach about 12
Listening back with headphones on the edirol, the last one sounded the best.
So my question is this: is this normal? It seems odd to me that I'd need to set the Edirol at max (80) to basically recorder anything that is of sort of normal volume. Since I bought it to record loud shows and since boosting is always possible, I'm not terribly concerned. But I do want to understand my equipment and process, and, especially, find out if there's something I'm doing wrong.
Oh, all the back of the recorder buttons were off, except when I used the plug-in power mentioned above.
Thanks for any insights, advice, etc. Don't know how I'd function without this place.
Stay cool. A live concert will always be much, much, much louder than you home stereo.
Your opera recording is the one that really makes me think. With everything at max volume ( bb and recorder) you should be able to reach peaking levels easily. Are you using fresh batteries on your bb? I've had serious problems with bad batteries. No, it's not normal to use your R-09HR at maximum recording levels, unless you're taping a bunch of ants chatting. ;D
BTW, never leave you plug in power buttom ON when you're not running Mic In. It takes like 6 db from your recorder levels ( so I'm told)
Another thing. If you run 24 bit/48 or 88 or 96, you don't need to set things just under peak, to use your words. What for? The only thing you can have doing so is clipping due no unexpected loud sounds.
That's the beauty of 24 bit recording: set you levels to peak at -12db to -6db and you're golden. There will be enough headroom, so no surprises, no clipping. All you have to do is add gain using your favorite software back home.
Hope that helps. Good luck and good recording.
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Stay cool. A live concert will always be much, much, much louder than you home stereo.
Your opera recording is the one that really makes me think. With everything at max volume ( bb and recorder) you should be able to reach peaking levels easily. Are you using fresh batteries on your bb? I've had serious problems with bad batteries. No, it's not normal to use your R-09HR at maximum recording levels, unless you're taping a bunch of ants chatting. ;D
I used a fresh battery for the opera, but have that same battery in the batt box now. But I am suspicious of the batt box. I've had times when it didn't work at all. Still worried about the need to have the Ed set so high, but I'll take your advice and stay cool, at least until I've done a loud show. Don't know what this one tonight will be like in that regard.
BTW, never leave you plug in power buttom ON when you're not running Mic In. It takes like 6 db from your recorder levels ( so I'm told)
Another thing. If you run 24 bit/48 or 88 or 96, you don't need to set things just under peak, to use your words.
Feel free to correct my jargon. Learning the lingo here is half the battle sometimes. And thanks for the help!
-
Is the level-control-cable removable?
Try to replace the level-control-cable with a usual 1/8" to 1/8" and check the levels one more time.
Those level-control-cables generally attenuate the signal.
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Stay cool. A live concert will always be much, much, much louder than you home stereo.
Your opera recording is the one that really makes me think. With everything at max volume ( bb and recorder) you should be able to reach peaking levels easily. Are you using fresh batteries on your bb? I've had serious problems with bad batteries. No, it's not normal to use your R-09HR at maximum recording levels, unless you're taping a bunch of ants chatting. ;D
I used a fresh battery for the opera, but have that same battery in the batt box now. But I am suspicious of the batt box. I've had times when it didn't work at all. Still worried about the need to have the Ed set so high, but I'll take your advice and stay cool, at least until I've done a loud show. Don't know what this one tonight will be like in that regard.
BTW, never leave you plug in power buttom ON when you're not running Mic In. It takes like 6 db from your recorder levels ( so I'm told)
Another thing. If you run 24 bit/48 or 88 or 96, you don't need to set things just under peak, to use your words.
Feel free to correct my jargon. Learning the lingo here is half the battle sometimes. And thanks for the help!
;D Excuse me? I can't correct you, my friend. I don't even write in decent English ( not my primary language) Your words are perfect and I just used the very same words because I didn't know how to write it better :yack: :yack: :yack:
Take care
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Is the level-control-cable removable?
Try to replace the level-control-cable with a usual 1/8" to 1/8" and check the levels one more time.
It is removable, but I don't have a plain cable to check with. It sounds like great advice, though, so I'll pick one up.
(I did wonder if the direction of the cable made a difference, because I wasn't sure if I had it in the original direction, but that doesn't seem to effect anything, as far as I can tell by switching it around)
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One quick moment of thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts and experiences with the R-09HR. I'm finally going to pull the trigger on one now. YIPPEEEEEE!
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One quick moment of thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts and experiences with the R-09HR. I'm finally going to pull the trigger on one now. YIPPEEEEEE!
Go for it ;D
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I'm finally going to pull the trigger on one now.
;D
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Well it looks like some of my 4 month old rechargeable Sanyo AA batteries are no longer good :angry2:. Being the batteries are under warranty, I really don't want to buy new ones at this point. Problem is I have a 3 1/2 day festival coming up next week and I will need to fill in the gaps between charges with alkaline AAs.
Does anyone know how long the R09hr will go on a set of alkaline AAs?
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Well it looks like some of my 4 month old rechargeable Sanyo AA batteries are no longer good :angry2:. Being the batteries are under warranty, I really don't want to buy new ones at this point. Problem is I have a 3 1/2 day festival coming up next week and I will need to fill in the gaps between charges with alkaline AAs.
Does anyone know how long the R09hr will go on a set of alkaline AAs?
I used some at Pickathon & they crapped out at about 3 hours.
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I used some at Pickathon & they crapped out at about 3 hours.
That's what I was afraid of, guess I'll need a bunch. Thanks +
-
4h-4h30min with 2 x 1,2V rechargeables.
I wouldn´t dare taping more than 4 hours (2 or 3 bands) with 1 set of rechargeables.
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4h-4h30min with 2x1,5V rechargeables.
I wouldn´t dare taping more than 4 hours (2 or 3 bands) with 1 set of rechargeables.
I am getting about 7 hours with my sanyo 2700 rechargeables.
Was just curious about times with non rechargeable alkaline batteries being I don't have enough rechargeables for 3+ days of recording.
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4h-4h30min with 2x1,5V rechargeables.
I wouldn´t dare taping more than 4 hours (2 or 3 bands) with 1 set of rechargeables.
What AA 1.5v rechargeables are you talking about? AFAIK all rechargeable AAs are 1.2v and NiMH types.
What I do know are about a new NiMH type, which is low discharge and might be interesting.
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Well my Edirol HR failed me with the mic jack problem common to the previous model. I had static and 2-3 second dropouts. It depressed me after all the work involved, not to mention a recording that is almost impossible to fix. I'm going to have to send it in for repair which will take 3 weeks. When I get it back I'm going to use the hot glue method that was mentioned earlier. I wish they would beef up the jacks to be able to take normal wear and tear.
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Well my Edirol HR failed me with the mic jack problem common to the previous model. I had static and 2-3 second dropouts. It depressed me after all the work involved, not to mention a recording that is almost impossible to fix. I'm going to have to send it in for repair which will take 3 weeks. When I get it back I'm going to use the hot glue method that was mentioned earlier. I wish they would beef up the jacks to be able to take normal wear and tear.
That's very disappointing to hear. +T for your troubles. Hopefully this won't be a (relatively) common problem with the R-09HR like on the R-09, but it's not terribly surprising considering the only change really is some more glue or epoxy, and not mechanical attachment of the jack to the board.
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Well my Edirol HR failed me with the mic jack problem common to the previous model. I had static and 2-3 second dropouts. It depressed me after all the work involved, not to mention a recording that is almost impossible to fix. I'm going to have to send it in for repair which will take 3 weeks. When I get it back I'm going to use the hot glue method that was mentioned earlier. I wish they would beef up the jacks to be able to take normal wear and tear.
That's very disappointing to hear. +T for your troubles. Hopefully this won't be a (relatively) common problem with the R-09HR like on the R-09, but it's not terribly surprising considering the only change really is some more glue or epoxy, and not mechanical attachment of the jack to the board.
I thought guysonic's (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm) pics show a very solid mechanical solution, the jack pins penetrate the board and are bent once through, then soldered...
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hra2pcb.jpg)
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hra1pcb.jpg)
...I wonder how much torque was applied to the jack that broke?
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Well my Edirol HR failed me with the mic jack problem common to the previous model. I had static and 2-3 second dropouts. It depressed me after all the work involved, not to mention a recording that is almost impossible to fix. I'm going to have to send it in for repair which will take 3 weeks. When I get it back I'm going to use the hot glue method that was mentioned earlier. I wish they would beef up the jacks to be able to take normal wear and tear.
That's very disappointing to hear. +T for your troubles. Hopefully this won't be a (relatively) common problem with the R-09HR like on the R-09, but it's not terribly surprising considering the only change really is some more glue or epoxy, and not mechanical attachment of the jack to the board.
I thought guysonic's (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm) pics show a very solid mechanical solution, the jack pins penetrate the board and are bent once through, then soldered...
...I wonder how much torque was applied to the jack that broke?
That's right. It's not just glue or epoxy on the new model.
Anyway, sorry to hear that. +T for your problems.
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I thought guysonic's pics show a very solid mechanical solution, the jack pins penetrate the board and are bent once through, then soldered...
...I wonder how much torque was applied to the jack that broke?
Ah... thanks for the correction! +T. I falsely remembered someone saying that there was just more glue or epoxy but no solid mechanical connections on the input jacks. Good to hear that I was wrong about that, will definitely pick up a R-09HR if/when my input jacks fail on my R-09.
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I am getting about 7 hours with my sanyo 2700 rechargeables.
I got 7 hours and 7+ hours on 2 tests with Energizer 2700's from WalMart... 4 for 9.99... best deal going, as you should get about 2 years of used on the set of 4, even with taping a lot of shows... that is how long a set of 4 that I rotated in and out of the R09 got me... I am guessing way more than 150 shows
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I am getting about 7 hours with my sanyo 2700 rechargeables.
I got 7 hours and 7+ hours on 2 tests with Energizer 2700's from WalMart... 4 for 9.99... best deal going, as you should get about 2 years of used on the set of 4, even with taping a lot of shows... that is how long a set of 4 that I rotated in and out of the R09 got me... I am guessing way more than 150 shows
Thx for this info.
I use Duracell 2650mAh and never get more than 4h15min on my R09-HR.
(http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/images/du-aa8-2650-lg.jpg)
Well, nevertheless 4 of these rechargeables make 8h-8h30min and I wont be taping more than 8 hours a day anyway.
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I use Duracell 2650mAh and never get more than 4h15min on my R09-HR.
(http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/images/du-aa8-2650-lg.jpg)
Well, nevertheless 4 of these rechargeables make 8h-8h30min and I wont be taping more than 8 hours a day anyway.
+T
I was using Energizer 2500 mAh and changed to these Duracell 2650 mAh's early this year, there is no contest that these are a better battery than the Energizer. I am in the process of converting my whole collection to these (all 24 of them...slowly :) ). While I know there are a lot of great AA rechargeable around, the Duracell's are easy to find (at my local supermarket).
digifish
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Digifish's test results show very clearly the low level of self-noise of the
R-09HR's built-in preamp when used with good external mics.
...
Flintstone
I'd agree with that. The internal pres do a very good job (from a hiss/noise perspective they are at first impression similar to the R44, something to find out). Remember that the ticking-clock test is a tough and revealing comparison. I am confident that for recording most bands, that you would not need anything more than an R09HR + Phantom-box + nice mics.
I will be making some field recordings of things at various levels over the next week or so. As I have an R09, R09HR, R44. All have internal mics so...
R09 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
R09HR - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
R44 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
...would seem to be in line for direct comparison.
digifish
I'd be glad to hear.
Especially the internal mics for field recordings, as you said they were quite OK.. :)
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Digifish's test results show very clearly the low level of self-noise of the
R-09HR's built-in preamp when used with good external mics.
...
Flintstone
I'd agree with that. The internal pres do a very good job (from a hiss/noise perspective they are at first impression similar to the R44, something to find out). Remember that the ticking-clock test is a tough and revealing comparison. I am confident that for recording most bands, that you would not need anything more than an R09HR + Phantom-box + nice mics.
I will be making some field recordings of things at various levels over the next week or so. As I have an R09, R09HR, R44. All have internal mics so...
R09 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
R09HR - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
R44 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
...would seem to be in line for direct comparison.
digifish
I'd be glad to hear.
Especially the internal mics for field recordings, as you said they were quite OK.. :)
So long as the source is loud enough the R09HR internals do a respectable job...I have this one up at Freesound, that I was pleasantly surprised...
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=57857
You will need to create an account to download the file (and why not :) ) the online preview is quite compressed. It was raining all weekend, so I didn't get a chance to do any field recording, still high on my 'to do' list.
digifish
-
I gave up the rechargeables for good. Back to Duracell.
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I gave up the rechargeables for good. Back to Duracell.
??? :o
Why?
digifish
-
I gave up the rechargeables for good. Back to Duracell.
??? :o
Why?
digifish
Why not? ;D
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I gave up the rechargeables for good. Back to Duracell.
??? :o
Why?
digifish
Why not? ;D
The conservative life expectancy of a AA nimh battery in the hands of the average consumer is about 250 charge cycles. That means you will save, at least ((250 x $Cost-of-disposables) - (Cost-of-NiMH + Charger)). That works out to (a worst case scenario of) saving ~ $220 (per battery). 4 batteries is ~$650.
digifish
-
I gave up the rechargeables for good. Back to Duracell.
??? :o
Why?
digifish
Why not? ;D
The conservative life expectancy of a AA nimh battery in the hands of the average consumer is about 250 charge cycles. That means you will save, at least ((250 x $Cost-of-disposables) - (Cost-of-NiMH + Charger)). That works out to (a worst case scenario of) saving ~ $220 (per battery). 4 batteries is ~$650.
digifish
You're probably right. Maybe it's a mojo thing. I don't like/trust them rechargeables.
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You're probably right. Maybe it's a mojo thing. I don't like/trust them rechargeables.
We're not in the NiCd age anymore. We have NiMH, Li-Ion, etc.
Does you ipod run on unrechargable AA's?
When it saves both the environment and cash and works well...
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Digifish's test results show very clearly the low level of self-noise of the
R-09HR's built-in preamp when used with good external mics.
...
Flintstone
I'd agree with that. The internal pres do a very good job (from a hiss/noise perspective they are at first impression similar to the R44, something to find out). Remember that the ticking-clock test is a tough and revealing comparison. I am confident that for recording most bands, that you would not need anything more than an R09HR + Phantom-box + nice mics.
I will be making some field recordings of things at various levels over the next week or so. As I have an R09, R09HR, R44. All have internal mics so...
R09 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
R09HR - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
R44 - internal mics / external mics + internal Pres / external + MixPre
...would seem to be in line for direct comparison.
digifish
I'd be glad to hear.
Especially the internal mics for field recordings, as you said they were quite OK.. :)
So long as the source is loud enough the R09HR internals do a respectable job...I have this one up at Freesound, that I was pleasantly surprised...
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=57857
You will need to create an account to download the file (and why not :) ) the online preview is quite compressed. It was raining all weekend, so I didn't get a chance to do any field recording, still high on my 'to do' list.
digifish
This one's really good quality!
Do you remember the settings you used?
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You're probably right. Maybe it's a mojo thing. I don't like/trust them rechargeables.
We're not in the NiCd age anymore. We have NiMH, Li-Ion, etc.
Does you ipod run on unrechargable AA's?
When it saves both the environment and cash and works well...
Friend,
Thanks for the input. I don't have an iPod but I do believe we still live in the age of freedom of choice ;).
I respect your candor and point of view, but I also respect mine.
Peace :coolguy:
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So long as the source is loud enough the R09HR internals do a respectable job...I have this one up at Freesound, that I was pleasantly surprised...
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=57857
You will need to create an account to download the file (and why not :) ) the online preview is quite compressed. It was raining all weekend, so I didn't get a chance to do any field recording, still high on my 'to do' list.
digifish
This one's really good quality!
Do you remember the settings you used?
It was: High-gain, Setting of 45, Low-Pass filter off.
digifish
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Might be a little off topic, but there's a torrent of my first recording attempt with the R-09HR up on dime:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=209699
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Might be a little off topic, but there's a torrent of my first recording attempt with the R-09HR up on dime:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=209699
What was the recording chain?
digifish
-
CA-STC-11s>battery box(DIY)>R-09HR
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CA-STC-11s>battery box(DIY)>R-09HR
Now it's on-topic, you just posted a reference recording :)
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Might be a little off topic, but there's a torrent of my first recording attempt with the R-09HR up on dime:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=209699
Thanks for posting ;).
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I have need of an R-09HR, anybody know of good sources to purchase one.
Thanks
David
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1)http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/ED-R-09HR
2) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/559244-REG/Edirol_Roland_R_09HR_R_09HR_Portable_High_Resolution_Audio.html
3)http://www.minidisco.com/Edirol-R-09HR;jsessionid=0a0108431f4366e0563983d74aada71cd9c2bfb81e2b.e3eSbNyQc3mLe34Pa38Ta38Lc3z0
I have made purchases from all three companies. All great service.
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I have need of an R-09HR, anybody know of good sources to purchase one.
Thanks
David
I got my from www.streamlineaudiovideo.com. It was $349 with free shipping when I purchased it a couple months ago.
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Here's one for $323 plus $8 shipping
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0016MLUKU
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$349 inc. a 4GB card and shipping.
I bought mine from these guys a few weeks ago. Add in that 25% Live Search cashback and its an even better deal.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Edirol-Roland-R-09HR-Recorder-R09HR-HR-09-R09-4GB-FREE_W0QQitemZ220269402699QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15199QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Both of you guys found nice deals.... +T x2
I will have to consider them if/when U purchase one....
....But I just found out that one of my good disc golf buddies works at a nice music store in town and he can borrow the thing for like 5 months at a time no charge!
So I guess I am going to be doing some experimentation... >:D
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$349 inc. a 4GB card and shipping.
I bought mine from these guys a few weeks ago. Add in that 25% Live Search cashback and its an even better deal.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Edirol-Roland-R-09HR-Recorder-R09HR-HR-09-R09-4GB-FREE_W0QQitemZ220269402699QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15199QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
That's who I bought mine from also ;)
I made my first recordings yesterday and the internal mics are surprisingly decent. I found that the input level marked around 46-47 was a sweet spot for me w/ low-pass filter on. I like how you can adjust the recorder to tailor the environment in record standby mode. It's like opening a new bag of tricks every time you turn it on ;D
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I was talking to a guy who works at this music store in town, and I played the dumb consumer to see how much the guy actually knew......
Well, I will spare the entire account but he didn't know what he was talking about.
I think I am definitely going to *borrow* this box for a few months to see it it is drastically better than my R09...
I see a lot of people using the Church 9100 preamp with these boxes.....what are the next levels of quality above the Church pre?
Any recommendations?
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I see a lot of people using the Church 9100 preamp with these boxes.....what are the next levels of quality above the Church pre?
Any recommendations?
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105636.0.html
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I was talking to a guy who works at this music store in town, and I played the dumb consumer to see how much the guy actually knew......
Well, I will spare the entire account but he didn't know what he was talking about.
I think I am definitely going to *borrow* this box for a few months to see it it is drastically better than my R09...
I see a lot of people using the Church 9100 preamp with these boxes.....what are the next levels of quality above the Church pre?
Any recommendations?
The old R-09 is more noisy than the R-09HR, which is more noisy than the Sony-PCM-D50, Sony MZ-RH1 HI-MD or several other recorders with top-notch internal preamps.
http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
With the latter recorders you actually don´t need an external preamp as their internal ones are of top-quality.
I never used my SP-Preamp for taping concerts....ok, got it 2 days ago ;), will test it in 2 weeks with my DPA4061 mics and my R09-HR.
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Digifish did some test recording with mics that have low noise. The tests show that
the R-09HR preamp is pretty quiet by itself, and that the noise level falls even
farther when using an excellent external preamp. (Digifish used the Sound Devices
MixPre, which costs about $650.)
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105893.msg1443847.html#msg1443847
Flintstone
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Digifish did some test recording with mics that have low noise. The tests show that
the R-09HR preamp is pretty quiet by itself, and that the noise level falls even
farther when using an excellent external preamp. (Digifish used the Sound Devices
MixPre, which costs about $650.)
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105893.msg1443847.html#msg1443847
Flintstone
I am just linking in the internal mic comparison of the R44, R09 and R09HR recorders in a field recording test. Internal mic-pres soon to follow.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,108779.msg1452098.html#msg1452098
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How much are used R-09's going for these days? Just the recorder, original SD card, AC adapter and USB cable? I've had a couple offers around $200. I was hoping to get a bit more, but maybe the R9HR has come down from around $400 recently??? Has the bottom dropped out of the used R9 market?
Just looking for your thoughts guys. I'm about 95% certain I'm just going to sell. I really want to upgrade to the HR!
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Some more R09 vs R09HR internal mic-preap vs line-in comparisons.
Methods:
This is a variation on the ticking clock method...without the ticking clock.
The R09 and R09HR were fed from the mic-in jack...
AT3032 --> ART Phantom II --> Mic-in R09 @ 44.1 kHz, 24 bit, high-sensitivity [-12 dB peaks]
AT3032 --> ART Phantom II --> Mic-in R09HR @ 44.1 kHz, 24 bit, high-sensitivity [-12 dB peaks]
then
AT3032 --> Sound Devices MixPre --> Line-in, R09 @ 44.1 kHz, 24 bit [-12 dB peaks]
AT3032 --> Sound Devices MixPre --> Line-in, R09HR @ 44.1 kHz, 24 bit [-12 dB peaks]
I then edited out the inter-tick silence and have interleaved them so the two 'silences' can be clearly compared.
Results:
This recording is the inter-clink silence from the R09 alternated with the R09HR, the differences are obvious. The picture (spectrograph) shows time on the horizontal axis and frequency on the vertical axis (20 Hz to 20 kHz).
R09 vs R09HR inter-tick silence (http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/sounds/TapersSection_R09_vs_R09HR_InternalPreamps_AT3032Mics.mp3)
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_R09vsHR_InternalPre_NoiseComparison.jpg)
This recording is the inter-clink silence from the R09 alternated with the R09HR, from the line in, the differences are very subtle (so I have marked the transitions on the spectrograph.
R09 vs R09HR line-in inter-tick silence (MixPre) (http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/sounds/TapersSection_R09_vs_R09HR_MixPre_AT3032Mics.mp3)
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_R09vsHR_LineIn_NoiseComparison.jpg)
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I see a lot of people using the Church 9100 preamp with these boxes.....what are the next levels of quality above the Church pre?
Any recommendations?
While not supplying mic power for most mics, the PA-3SX is very compact to fit on back of R-09/HR decks, exceptionally quiet, very low distortion, has both clip/low battery indication, runs for over 500 hours on set of AA lithium, and has extended frequency bandwidth most suited for up to 96K high definition modes.
See details at:
www.sonicstudios.com/access.htm#3sx (http://www.sonicstudios.com/access.htm#3sx)
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/3sxvlcro.jpg)
Details/tips to attaching various gear to back of R-09HR deck shown in review just a bit below the noise spectrum graphs at:
www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm#spectrum (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm#spectrum)
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hr_3sx.jpg)
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I see a lot of people using the Church 9100 preamp with these boxes.....what are the next levels of quality above the Church pre?
Any recommendations?
While not supplying mic power for most mics, the PA-3SX is very compact to fit on back of R-09/HR decks, exceptionally quiet, very low distortion, has both clip/low battery indication, runs for over 500 hours on set of AA lithium, and has extended frequency bandwidth most suited for up to 96K high definition modes.
See details at:
www.sonicstudios.com/access.htm#3sx (http://www.sonicstudios.com/access.htm#3sx)
Details/tips to attaching various gear to back of R-09HR deck shown in review just a bit below the noise spectrum graphs at:
www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm#spectrum (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm#spectrum)
Do you have a comparison of your PA-3SX vs the HR internals for something like the clock test?
digifish.
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I ran another test of the 16GB A-Data class 6 SDHC card... this time there was trouble. I updated to v1.04 firmware, did a fresh format to the SD card, and set it to record at 24/96 with 1GB splits. It recorded 4 files ok then when it split to the 5th file, it stopped recording (there is only 1 second recorded for the 5th file). Unfortunately, I did not witness what happened when the recording stopped. I went to check it and the unit had powered down (assuming it sat idle for 3 minutes - as that is how I had the power save setup). I started recording again at it appears to be doing fine.
I guess I'll be repeating this test a few times.
Update: So the recording continued fine until the batteries ran out, and the last file is ok, so I assume it saved it before completely shutting down. I was using "Kirkland Signature" alkalines (Costco house brand) and got 4 hrs 4 minutes recorded before it shut down. The 5th file that it stopped on as described above seems to be missing file header info since I can't get any file properties when downloaded onto my computer - not sure what this indicates, whether there was a "slow card" error during recording or not.
I just got done testing a 16GB A-Data class 6 SDHC card. Ran it using a fesh pair of Energizer "standard" alkaline batteries. Card formatted on the r09hr. I got 5 hrs 15 min at 24/96, appears flawless, even stopped/started 4 times. No "slow card" errors. I haven't updated, so I'm running v1.03 firmware. I do the same with my PNY 16GB class 6 SDHC card tomorrow.
i had the same problem last night for Dave Matthews Band!
the 5th file is one second long, even thought it was giving me good levels and recording all night long.
OFOTD mentioned this was a header issue and the file could be saved... can someone point me to an explanation or how to do this?
thanks,
-j
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Digifish,
The ambient sound recordings of the R44, R-09 and R-09HR are very useful. The R-09HR with internal mics sounded very good. I enjoyed what sounded like passing bicycle tires from 1:14 to 1:20 or so. That sound was absent from the R-44 recording, and not nearly as clear with the R-09. None of the recorders provided much stereo imaging.
The R-44 sounded pretty bad. I think the R-44's internal mics were not intended for critical recording, just for audio notes. It would be very useful to hear the R-44 recording using your AT 3032 mics directly, compared with the AT 3032-->MixPre-->R44.
The comparison of the R-09 alternating with R-09HR makes it easy to hear the difference in noise floor between the two units. The difference between the R-09 and R-09HR when receiving a signal via line in from your MixPre is more subtle, as you would predict from Guysonic's test results:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35dbR09HRvsR09LINE(LOG).gif
I think if a taper is recording line in most of the time, the R-09 would work as well as the R-09HR.
Thanks, and +T for your efforts!
Flintstone
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Digifish,
The R-44 sounded pretty bad. I think the R-44's internal mics were not intended for critical recording, just for audio notes. It would be very useful to hear the R-44 recording using your AT 3032 mics directly, compared with the AT 3032-->MixPre-->R44.
+T's all-round, I agree. It was another miserable weekend here, so hence all the testing from indoors and my front porch :) I still do plan to test...
R09, R09HR & R44 internal preamps with AT3032's and possibly NT4 for the same field-recording sound, although I need to find somewhere without the background wind in the trees (that masks background hiss or may be mistaken for the same) AND is interesting to listen to AND is fairly constant so that I can get a sample from all three. I need a chamber orchestra playing in the forest on a still day :o
The comparison of the R-09 alternating with R-09HR makes it easy to hear the difference in noise floor between the two units. The difference between the R-09 and R-09HR when receiving a signal via line in from your MixPre is more subtle, as you would predict from Guysonic's test results:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35dbR09HRvsR09LINE(LOG).gif
I think if a taper is recording line in most of the time, the R-09 would work as well as the R-09HR.
I agree, the line in on all machines is fairly much the same, and I would not be upgrading from an 09 to 09HR on that basis alone. I wanted the better mic-pre performance for binaural and stealth recording that I do. The fact the internal mics are now better was a bonus, and something that makes me more comfortable to make an internal-recording at a pinch.
digifish
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Do you have a comparison of your PA-3SX vs the HR internals for something like the clock test?
digifish.
No microphone input direct comparison exists as yet, only the input noise comparison graphics shown below and also in the posted review at www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm)
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35dBLOG88vs3sx.gif)
(MIC POWER ON NOISE GRAPHIC)
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35dBLOG88.2vs3SXpip.gif)
(MIC POWER ON/OFF GRAPHIC)][/b]
Obvious low frequency noise with HR mic power ON, and not so bad low level high frequency noise with mic power turned off
Perhaps when another HR arrives here a comparison recording of chromatic wind chimes might offer audible insight to benefits of eliminating the high frequency noise using LINE input with an external preamplifier
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Saved these steps from year back when I had R1 wav file issues, im not the editor, no idea who was back then
OFOTD mentioned this was a header issue and the file could be saved... can someone point me to an explanation or how to do this?
* Open up the damaged file.
* Copy the damaged part of the audio and paste into a new file within Audition/Cool Edit. Make sure that the bit depth and sample rate are the same as the original file.
* Save the damaged audio to a RAW .pcm but before saving, go to "Options" within the File Save dialog (near the bottom of the Save dialog) and select "24 bit Intel PCM" with a byte offset of "0".
* Close the damaged file.
* Now open up the damaged .pcm, select the correct bit depth and sample rate. It'll now give you the option to select the byte offset of the file. Since we all know that the byte "0" doesn't work, we only have "+1" and "+2". One of these will work. I've found that taking a 10sec sample of the damaged file and going through this process will let you know which byte offset to use in a short amount of time. Once you know, then you can process the big file. When the damaged file opens up and looks normal, then copy the good data and paste it into the original audio where the damaged part is. I usually cut out the damaged part of the original and then paste in the good. All you have to do next is cut out any bad parts in the original so that the audio lines up correctly with the newly pasted good audio.
* Another little tidbit, so far I have found that if you have to use the "+1" byte offset, you need to swap the channels and when using the "+2" byte offset, the channels appear to be fine. I've only done a few files so far and this seems to be the pattern.
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checking in (for the record)....I taped the other night for the first time with my compact rig - DPA 4061's > SP Batt.Box > R-09HR (line-in) with great results at about 25ft. from the stage taping three bands with levels from 65-72, so I guess with no preamp in front (except for the R-09's pre) and the 4061's you should get as close to the sound source as possible to get the best recording if your in the very far back 50ft. or more from stage you'll probably have to run the levels around max (80). This was rockabilly, indie rock, and bluegrass amplified.
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checking in (for the record)....I taped the other night for the first time with my compact rig - DPA 4061's > SP Batt.Box > R-09HR (line-in) with great results at about 25ft. from the stage taping three bands with levels from 65-72, so I guess with no preamp in front (except for the R-09's pre) and the 4061's you should get as close to the sound source as possible to get the best recording if your in the very far back 50ft. or more from stage you'll probably have to run the levels around max (80). This was rockabilly, indie rock, and bluegrass amplified.
I always run mic-in with battery box on the r09 with dpa4061 and get great results and 20db less gain needed from the internal preamp.
Mic-in is about 20db more sensitive than line-in.
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surprisingly good recording I did over the weekend using just the r09hr's internal mics (low gain, no HPF, no limiter). quite an impressive little box.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,108922.0.html
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FWIW, I have taped 3 shows already this week with the R09hr at different levels, and I do not see or hear any side effects of the deck itself.
When changing from the unity gain of 8 on the plain R09, I see see and hear differences.
Anyone else getting the same results as me?
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FWIW, I have taped 3 shows already this week with the R09hr at different levels, and I do not see or hear any side effects of the deck itself.
When changing from the unity gain of 8 on the plain R09, I see see and hear differences.
Anyone else getting the same results as me?
Same thing here. I've taped at (very) different levels. Also I've been using my R-09HR with my CA-9100 at different levels, from 35 to 50. To my ears, no difference.
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FWIW, I have taped 3 shows already this week with the R09hr at different levels, and I do not see or hear any side effects of the deck itself.
When changing from the unity gain of 8 on the plain R09, I see see and hear differences.
Anyone else getting the same results as me?
Same thing here. I've taped at (very) different levels. Also I've been using my R-09HR with my CA-9100 at different levels, from 35 to 50. To my ears, no difference.
Do we know where unity gain is on the R9HR line in yet? I know, it keeps coming up, but some of us are lazy and don't want to do our own measurements/guesses. :) Is it just wherever the unit sets itself by default when new?
Getting my HR tomorrow... can't wait!
DPA 4061's, CA9100 preamp, R9HR!
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FWIW, I have taped 3 shows already this week with the R09hr at different levels, and I do not see or hear any side effects of the deck itself.
When changing from the unity gain of 8 on the plain R09, I see see and hear differences.
Anyone else getting the same results as me?
Same thing here. I've taped at (very) different levels. Also I've been using my R-09HR with my CA-9100 at different levels, from 35 to 50. To my ears, no difference.
Do we know where unity gain is on the R9HR line in yet? I know, it keeps coming up, but some of us are lazy and don't want to do our own measurements/guesses. :) Is it just wherever the unit sets itself by default when new?
Getting my HR tomorrow... can't wait!
DPA 4061's, CA9100 preamp, R9HR!
Almost the same gear I own. Better mics though.
Well, the old unity discussion. Last word says something around 50 to 56. I've used the default (40) and even less (35). Great sounding no matter what. ;)
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Do we know where unity gain is on the R9HR line in yet?
This has been discussed int his thread, a few pages back. No measurements needed, just reading.
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FWIW, I have taped 3 shows already this week with the R09hr at different levels, and I do not see or hear any side effects of the deck itself.
When changing from the unity gain of 8 on the plain R09, I see see and hear differences.
Anyone else getting the same results as me?
Same here, last 3 shows using the CA Ugly maxed at +20db. The latest one, Steely Dan last night at Nokia in Texas. Had the HR line-in input level at near 70, and sounds sweet!! Check it out here: http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63213
David
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Just linking in a comparison of the R44, R09HR and R09 internal mic preamps with external mics...
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,109081.msg1456339.html#msg1456339
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Hi folks.
First, thanks David for that Steely Dan recording! Are there many showing up from this tour?
Well, my R9HR arrived. Like others here, I'm impressed with the lower noise and the more solid construction. GREAT!
As a musician, I'll actually be using the internal mics plus AGC to do quick and dirty recordings of things like guitar lessons, practice sessions etc. where quality isn't an issue. So, I'm glad to see they got rid of that weird ziiip noise whenever the AGC adjusts the levels.
I'm not impressed with the variable speed playback, however. I routinely slow parts of songs down, to figure out what notes are being played. Presumably, this feature was added for musicians like me. Anyway, slowing things down echoes severely, making it practically unusable. A plugin I have for Winamp does a better job, along with just about any application on the PC for slowing music down.
Maybe there isn't enough processing power in the unit to accomplish this task properly ... any thoughts?
Taping some acoustic jazz up close on Sunday; small room, DPA's, CA preamp, probably 24 bit/88.2K. Can't wait to hear the results!
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I'm not impressed with the variable speed playback, however. I routinely slow parts of songs down, to figure out what notes are being played. Presumably, this feature was added for musicians like me. Anyway, slowing things down echoes severely, making it practically unusable.
Agreed. The slow feature is useless :(
digifish
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The R09HR AGC and LIMITER do NOT prevent clipping as supposed to.
Test it by clapping your hands and you´ll see what I mean.
;)
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The R09HR AGC and LIMITER do NOT prevent clipping as supposed to.
Test it by clapping your hands and you´ll see what I mean.
;)
No real-time limiter on a recording device can predict the future, so some transients will get through :)
I am sure the second clap will be OK
digifish
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The R09HR AGC and LIMITER do NOT prevent clipping as supposed to.
Test it by clapping your hands and you´ll see what I mean.
;)
No real-time limiter on a recording device can predict the future, so some transients will get through :)
I am sure the second clap will be OK
digifish
No, following claps also clipping, but IF used in a live concert setting, this might not be a problem as the overall level is lots higher with less dynamic-range and not just like at home in a silent room(where much gain is needed for the ambient sound and suddenly a clapping hand kicks in HAHA!).
I´ll definitely test AGC for a live concert which isn´t important for me.....next saturday.
3 bands playing at an outdoor show. Will tape the 3rd band with manual gain and the first 2 bands with AGC (won´t use the limiter as it produces evil-noise when changing levels while the limiter is ON).
;)
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The R09HR AGC and LIMITER do NOT prevent clipping as supposed to.
Test it by clapping your hands and you´ll see what I mean.
If the gain chain is similar to the R44's, the limiter seems to be AFTER the input stage, which I don't think is where it should be.
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FWIW... using 2500 mah and 2700 mah batteries, when the power starts going down, watch the deck closely, as the meter will show about 1/2 and 1 song later (may be 3-4 minutes) it was off and dead
Unknown to me, my charger was acting up... the cause of the situation. The deck seems to be fine
When the deck died, the files did not close correctly.
The files will open in CDWav (confirm the pop-up messages about errors) and then save the opened file and all is good.
-
FWIW... using 2500 mah and 2700 mah batteries, when the power starts going down, watch the deck closely, as the meter will show about 1/2 and 1 song later (may be 3-4 minutes) it was off and dead
Unknown to me, my charger was acting up... the cause of the situation. The deck seems to be fine
When the deck died, the files did not close correctly.
The files will open in CDWav (confirm the pop-up messages about errors) and then save the opened file and all is good.
When my r09hr´s batteries died, the recorded file was NOT saved at all, only 1 second of the file.
No issue for me as I know that 4h to 4h30 are the maximum with Sanyo 2700 rechargables.
I always change the rechargeables after 4 hours now.
;)
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For those who want to hear the R9HR, line in level 52, with Church Audio ST9100 pre and DPA 4061's, look for the show I just posted over at Dime. It's just my straight 24 bit 96KHZ .flac's, no compression or EQ. As a first taping experience with the HR, it went great! I have tons of confidence in this recorder!
And, like the original R9, although some of the drum hits peak out at 0.0DB when I get the wave files onto the PC, I cannot for the life of me detect any audible clipping. So, it seems the HR does not clip easily. One possible clip in the recording is just guitar amp clipping, and not as harsh as the digital variety.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=211516
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For those who want to hear the R9HR, line in level 52, with Church Audio ST9100 pre and DPA 4061's, look for the show I just posted over at Dime. It's just my straight 24 bit 96KHZ .flac's, no compression or EQ. As a first taping experience with the HR, it went great! I have tons of confidence in this recorder!
And, like the original R9, although some of the drum hits peak out at 0.0DB when I get the wave files onto the PC, I cannot for the life of me detect any audible clipping. So, it seems the HR does not clip easily. One possible clip in the recording is just guitar amp clipping, and not as harsh as the digital variety.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=211516
Thanks for sharing ;)
+T
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So... anybody using 16 or 32GB cards with the R9HR yet? Any issues to report, cards to recommend etc.? I rarely record more than one or two shows at a time, before dumping to PC, but the idea of having that much space available in something the size of a postage stamp is intoxicating. Heck, you could get almost 14 hours (just a guess) of 24/96 waves on a 32GB card ... could be good for festivals!
(remembering 128K of memory and no hard drive in the mid-80's) Thems were the days...
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So... anybody using 16 or 32GB cards with the R9HR yet? Any issues to report, cards to recommend etc.? I rarely record more than one or two shows at a time, before dumping to PC, but the idea of having that much space available in something the size of a postage stamp is intoxicating. Heck, you could get almost 14 hours (just a guess) of 24/96 waves on a 32GB card ... could be good for festivals!
(remembering 128K of memory and no hard drive in the mid-80's) Thems were the days...
I've been using an A-data 16gb card with no problems.
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When my r09hr´s batteries died, the recorded file was NOT saved at all, only 1 second of the file.
No issue for me as I know that 4h to 4h30 are the maximum with Sanyo 2700 rechargables.
I always change the rechargeables after 4 hours now.
Sorry, you are correct, the 1st file was OK, but the 2nd file (2 times) was not.
My Thomas Distributing 2700mAh give me well over 6 hours of record time in the field... and 1 time over 7 hours when testing.
So... anybody using 16 or 32GB cards with the R9HR yet? Any issues to report, cards to recommend etc.?
I use a 16gb A-data class 6 card or 16gb and 8gb Kingston class 4 cards... also tried a 4gb transcend (from back in my R09 days) with success as well
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So... anybody using 16 or 32GB cards with the R9HR yet? Any issues to report, cards to recommend etc.? I rarely record more than one or two shows at a time, before dumping to PC, but the idea of having that much space available in something the size of a postage stamp is intoxicating. Heck, you could get almost 14 hours (just a guess) of 24/96 waves on a 32GB card ... could be good for festivals!
(remembering 128K of memory and no hard drive in the mid-80's) Thems were the days...
Kingston SD cards. Way to go. ;)
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So... anybody using 16 or 32GB cards with the R9HR yet? Any issues to report, cards to recommend etc.? I rarely record more than one or two shows at a time, before dumping to PC, but the idea of having that much space available in something the size of a postage stamp is intoxicating. Heck, you could get almost 14 hours (just a guess) of 24/96 waves on a 32GB card ... could be good for festivals!
(remembering 128K of memory and no hard drive in the mid-80's) Thems were the days...
I've recorded several shows at 24/96 using Transcend 16 GB with no problems.
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FWIW... using 2500 mah and 2700 mah batteries, when the power starts going down, watch the deck closely, as the meter will show about 1/2 and 1 song later (may be 3-4 minutes) it was off and dead
Unknown to me, my charger was acting up... the cause of the situation. The deck seems to be fine
When the deck died, the files did not close correctly.
The files will open in CDWav (confirm the pop-up messages about errors) and then save the opened file and all is good.
When my r09hr´s batteries died, the recorded file was NOT saved at all, only 1 second of the file.
No issue for me as I know that 4h to 4h30 are the maximum with Sanyo 2700 rechargables.
I always change the rechargeables after 4 hours now.
;)
My r09hr's batteries died on Saturday night. First time taping with it, about 4 1/2 hours on. Went from 1/4 battery to dead in the blink of an eye. The r09hr showed the file to be 1 second long, but 1.5 gb in size. So I ran that fixwav utility that a board member posted last year, and the wav file headers were cleaned up and everything looked good. I will be swapping batteries at the 4 hour mark from now on as well.
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My r09hr's batteries died on Saturday night. First time taping with it, about 4 1/2 hours on. Went from 1/4 battery to dead in the blink of an eye. The r09hr showed the file to be 1 second long, but 1.5 gb in size. So I ran that fixwav utility that a board member posted last year, and the wav file headers were cleaned up and everything looked good. I will be swapping batteries at the 4 hour mark from now on as well.
What bits/kHz were you recording at?
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FWIW... using 2500 mah and 2700 mah batteries, when the power starts going down, watch the deck closely, as the meter will show about 1/2 and 1 song later (may be 3-4 minutes) it was off and dead
Unknown to me, my charger was acting up... the cause of the situation. The deck seems to be fine
When the deck died, the files did not close correctly.
The files will open in CDWav (confirm the pop-up messages about errors) and then save the opened file and all is good.
When my r09hr´s batteries died, the recorded file was NOT saved at all, only 1 second of the file.
No issue for me as I know that 4h to 4h30 are the maximum with Sanyo 2700 rechargables.
I always change the rechargeables after 4 hours now.
;)
My r09hr's batteries died on Saturday night. First time taping with it, about 4 1/2 hours on. Went from 1/4 battery to dead in the blink of an eye. The r09hr showed the file to be 1 second long, but 1.5 gb in size. So I ran that fixwav utility that a board member posted last year, and the wav file headers were cleaned up and everything looked good. I will be swapping batteries at the 4 hour mark from now on as well.
I have older R-09s not HR's, but the built-in wave repair function that appeared in the 2nd or 3rd firmware update for the R-09 and has been there ever since works great for correcting file header problems. Is a file repair utility included in the current R09HR firmware? You have to scroll down on the R-09 menu to see it after selecting the file (beneath select, details, delete, rename, & whatnot).
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My r09hr's batteries died on Saturday night. First time taping with it, about 4 1/2 hours on. Went from 1/4 battery to dead in the blink of an eye. The r09hr showed the file to be 1 second long, but 1.5 gb in size. So I ran that fixwav utility that a board member posted last year, and the wav file headers were cleaned up and everything looked good. I will be swapping batteries at the 4 hour mark from now on as well.
What bits/kHz were you recording at?
I was recording at 24/48
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FWIW... using 2500 mah and 2700 mah batteries, when the power starts going down, watch the deck closely, as the meter will show about 1/2 and 1 song later (may be 3-4 minutes) it was off and dead
Unknown to me, my charger was acting up... the cause of the situation. The deck seems to be fine
When the deck died, the files did not close correctly.
The files will open in CDWav (confirm the pop-up messages about errors) and then save the opened file and all is good.
When my r09hr´s batteries died, the recorded file was NOT saved at all, only 1 second of the file.
No issue for me as I know that 4h to 4h30 are the maximum with Sanyo 2700 rechargables.
I always change the rechargeables after 4 hours now.
;)
My r09hr's batteries died on Saturday night. First time taping with it, about 4 1/2 hours on. Went from 1/4 battery to dead in the blink of an eye. The r09hr showed the file to be 1 second long, but 1.5 gb in size. So I ran that fixwav utility that a board member posted last year, and the wav file headers were cleaned up and everything looked good. I will be swapping batteries at the 4 hour mark from now on as well.
I have older R-09s not HR's, but the built-in wave repair function that appeared in the 2nd or 3rd firmware update for the R-09 and has been there ever since works great for correcting file header problems. Is a file repair utility included in the current R09HR firmware? You have to scroll down on the R-09 menu to see it after selecting the file (beneath select, details, delete, rename, & whatnot).
I have no idea! Wow, that would have taken some panic out of my day. :) I'll check when I get home. Thanks for the tip.
EDIT: Got home, checked out the recorder. Sure enough, "Repair" is an option. I selected the option and the file was repaired in about 1 second. It appears to be just fine. Thanks again for the tip!
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"When my r09hr´s batteries died, the recorded file was NOT saved"
"My r09hr's batteries died on Saturday night...I ran that fixwav utility, and the wav file headers were cleaned up and everything looked good..."
I'd like to hear from other R09HR owners about what happens when the power runs out. It will be useful to know if the R09HR routinely loses the file or corrupts the file a the point when the battery quits. Or maybe the R-09HR can't tell the power left in a rechargeable AA as well as it can an alkaline AA?
Flintstone
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I'd like to hear from other R09HR owners about what happens when the power runs out. It will be useful to know if the R09HR routinely loses the file or corrupts the file a the point when the battery quits. Or maybe the R-09HR can't tell the power left in a rechargeable AA as well as it can an alkaline AA?
I am not sure how the R-09HR does it, but electronics are not as smart to guess what battery type you are using. They read voltage and current, and respond to that. In fact you have to be careful in choosing rechargeable batteries and seeing when it reaches 1v/cell, or the battery may be damaged.
The reason why alkalines last longer is because they are 1.5v and rechargeables are 1.2v. I am not sure what is the amperage of an AA alkaline, but rechargeables are 2700mA at most. You can guess what consumption your unit has by timing how long a 2700mA rechargeable will last. If it lasts 8 hours, then it drains approximately 337.5mA.
When the batteries are used inside the unit is fine, and it's unlikely the battery will be damaged. But be careful if you use external battery supplies, as they have a lower voltage limit which shouldn't be exceeded.
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... So I ran that fixwav utility that a board member posted last year, and the wav file headers were cleaned up and everything looked good....
This app wont even open my file, but I can get CDWav to open and fix it.... hummmmm
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"When my r09hr´s batteries died, the recorded file was NOT saved"
"My r09hr's batteries died on Saturday night...I ran that fixwav utility, and the wav file headers were cleaned up and everything looked good..."
I'd like to hear from other R09HR owners about what happens when the power runs out. It will be useful to know if the R09HR routinely loses the file or corrupts the file a the point when the battery quits. Or maybe the R-09HR can't tell the power left in a rechargeable AA as well as it can an alkaline AA?
Flintstone
I recorded Southside Johnny two nights in a row Monday night and tonight using CSB mics, CSBB, mic in, and my R09HR at 24/96. Limiter off, plug in power off, mic gain low, low cut off, max file size 2 GB. I was using Duracell Ultra Digital AA and after the first night (approximately 2 hrs 45 min) the batteries still indicated full charge on the Edirol. Tonight I used the same batteries and they went dead after another 2 hrs and 12 minutes. I copied the files to my laptop and even the 12 minute cut-off file played fine without needing repairs. I have new PowerEdge rechargeables that I will be using in the future and of course will not try to record almost 6 hours on the same batteries again. BTW, the recordings sound much better than my previous PDAudio setup.
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I was running AKG 460 > Warm mod+ UA-5 > R-09HR (line-in) 24/48 and after approx. 3 hrs. my batts suddenly died...I chalked it up to old rechargeables - 2100 Monster brand.
The file size looked good but the file would not play, but I was able to use the repair from this link: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=72936.0 and it fixed it.
My rechargeable batteries had also been sitting unused for about 3 months. but they were at least 3-4 years old as well.
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I was running AKG 460 > Warm mod+ UA-5 > R-09HR (line-in) 24/48 and after approx. 3 hrs. my batts suddenly died...I chalked it up to old rechargeables - 2100 Monster brand.
The file size looked good but the file would not play, but I was able to use the repair from this link: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=72936.0 and it fixed it.
My rechargeable batteries had also been sitting unused for about 3 months. but they were at least 3-4 years old as well.
Based on what I've been reading, rechargeables are not something to be trusted yet.
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Is everyone using rechargeables making sure they have the proper battery setting in the R-09HR menu?
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My rechargeable batteries had also been sitting unused for about 3 months. but they were at least 3-4 years old as well.
Most standard NiMH loose approx 1% charge per day. After 3 months they'd be nearly dead. If you power cycle them a few times (discharge/recharge) they may be OK. The new Low Self Discharge versions have less total capacity but supposedly hold 80-90% of their charge for a year.
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Is everyone using rechargeables making sure they have the proper battery setting in the R-09HR menu?
Yes, yesterday my Sanyo 2700 recorded 7h15min with recording breaks in between. The other pair of Sany 2007 died after 4h15 or 4h30 as expected ;).
Anyway, a change after 4 hours and all will be fine.
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I was running AKG 460 > Warm mod+ UA-5 > R-09HR (line-in) 24/48 and after approx. 3 hrs. my batts suddenly died...I chalked it up to old rechargeables - 2100 Monster brand.
The file size looked good but the file would not play, but I was able to use the repair from this link: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=72936.0 and it fixed it.
My rechargeable batteries had also been sitting unused for about 3 months. but they were at least 3-4 years old as well.
Based on what I've been reading, rechargeables are not something to be trusted yet.
There is absolutely no problem using 2700mAh rechargeables by Sanyo.
4h 24bit/44.1kHz recording 100% no worries ;).
If you recharge them 1 day before the show, there´s absolutely no reason for NOT using rechargeables ;).
I NEVER had issues with the r09 or the r09hr using rechargeables ;).
http://www.amazon.com/Hitech-iC-34LCD-Charger-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B00179BBDS/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1219939622&sr=8-13
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I NEVER had issues with the r09 or the r09hr using rechargeables.
I have -- just recently -- and won't use them again.
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I NEVER had issues with the r09 or the r09hr using rechargeables.
I have -- just recently -- and won't use them again.
Whats the/your issue using rechargeable batteries?
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I NEVER had issues with the r09 or the r09hr using rechargeables.
I have -- just recently -- and won't use them again.
I used cheap NiHM rechargeables for a year or so in the R-09 with the included cheapo timer charger and never had a problem, but I passed them on to family for less critical stuff before they got very old because I was concerned about them failing.
I've been using disposable Alkalines ever since, buying the big discounted 18-20 packs. I go through alot of them and my conscience has been niggling me so I ordered and just received today a bunch of Maha Imedion 2100mAhr Low Self Discharge batts. I chose the lower mAh Low Self Discharge versions since I figure 4-5 hours is enough and I'd rather have power consistency than ultimate runtime. I also got the new better Maha charger that supposedly helps eliminate the need to power cycle them and any memory effect over time developed from limited discharge cycles. They're charging now so I can test them later, but I'm still running the Alkalies for recording tonight. ;)
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I NEVER had issues with the r09 or the r09hr using rechargeables.
I have -- just recently -- and won't use them again.
Whats the/your issue using rechargeable batteries?
I have found that rechargeables lack consistency. Even the best of them lose their power over time. The only way I'd feel confident using them is if I were to purchase new ones every few months or so.
Last time I used them, they crapped out on me about three hours into the evening. Fortunately, I was there to record the opening band, so it wasn't a big deal. I did come home with an incomplete recording, however . . . which would not have happened had I utilized regular batteries.
I go to shows to enjoy myself - not to worry and wonder whether my batteries are going to have enough juice to make it through the evening.
EDIT: My recent failure involved PowerEx 2700mAh AA Rechargeable NiMh batteries which were approximately a year old. They'd been freshly charged the evening before the show with the recommended charger.
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I NEVER had issues with the r09 or the r09hr using rechargeables.
I have -- just recently -- and won't use them again.
Whats the/your issue using rechargeable batteries?
I have found that rechargeables lack consistency. Even the best of them lose their power over time. The only way I'd feel confident using them is if I were to purchase new ones every few months or so.
Last time I used them, they crapped out on me about three hours into the evening. Fortunately, I was there to record the opening band, so it wasn't a big deal. I did come home with an incomplete recording, however . . . which would not have happened had I utilized regular batteries.
I go to shows to enjoy myself - not to worry and wonder whether my batteries are going to have enough juice to make it through the evening.
I can totally understand the consistency issue. I have six rechargeable batteries I use with a digital camera and they certainly don't hold their charge like they used to.
Why bother spending $20+ on rechargeable batteries when you can spend that much on giant packs of double a batteries. and you will have to buy more rechargeable ones later on.
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I have found that rechargeables lack consistency. Even the best of them lose their power over time. The only way I'd feel confident using them is if I were to purchase new ones every few months or so.
Last time I used them, they crapped out on me about three hours into the evening. Fortunately, I was there to record the opening band, so it wasn't a big deal. I did come home with an incomplete recording, however . . . which would not have happened had I utilized regular batteries.
I go to shows to enjoy myself - not to worry and wonder whether my batteries are going to have enough juice to make it through the evening.
That is exactly why I went back to using disposables. The cost and inconvenience was less important than peace of mind and the recording. I'm hoping these new technology batteries and charger will eliminate the problem, but I worry that I'm just pushing the inevitable failure farther down the road.
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Why bother spending $20+ on rechargeable batteries when you can spend that much on giant packs of double a batteries. and you will have to buy more rechargeable ones later on.
We pay our stuff in Euro's.
A set of 4 good AA's is quickly 5 euros or more. (say US$ 7.50) See http://www.twenga.nl/prijs/10344410.html or similar.
A set of a good charger and some rechargable batteries may be about 35 euros.
So after a few charges the rechargables save you cash. They can be recharged 100's of times.
They last long enough while recording, see the reports.
You also save the environment.
Why is it so hard to do some math? (yes, I can give some background info on that for the US situation but I like to keep it simple now)
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We pay our stuff in Euro's.
A set of 4 good AA's is quickly 5 euros or more. (say US$ 7.50) See http://www.twenga.nl/prijs/10344410.html or similar.
A set of a good charger and some rechargable batteries may be about 35 euros.
So after a few charges the rechargables save you cash. They can be recharged 100's of times.
They last long enough while recording, see the reports.
You also save the environment.
Why is it so hard to do some math? (yes, I can give some background info on that for the US situation but I like to keep it simple now)
I wouldn't be paying $7.5/5 euros for four batteries. At that point, I would get a charger and rechargeable batteries.
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I wouldn't be paying $7.5/5 euros for four batteries. At that point, I would get a charger and rechargeable batteries.
Thanks for the understanding.
Even if we only use the batteries 50 times or so (for the people that fear they'll lose their ability to keep a certain charge too quickly) we save cash, save the environment, etc.
And do you do 50 shows per year?
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AA Alkalines can be bought here in Florida for about $10 for 18-20 batteries.
I just paid $30 for 12 high quality low-self-discharge NiMH AAs and $40 for the charger.
(I need enough to run two recorders and have charged batteries ready to cycle)
So it's not really that big a difference over here. And again, piece of mind and having power when you need it is more valuable to many. You're absolutely right on the environmental argument though.
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I go to shows to enjoy myself - not to worry and wonder whether my batteries are going to have enough juice to make it through the evening.
Second that. I´m not saying that rechargeables are not a great idea. Of course they are.
It's just that so far they are not so reliable as the regular alkalines. Once they get there, I'll be the first to buy lots of them.
Peace ;)
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Either of these chargers will allow you to see the mAh that the battery is still taking:
http://tinyurl.com/55h26b
or
http://tinyurl.com/oyclm
I highly recommend either (own both), as it will give you peace of mind, save you money (in the end) and save the environment
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Second that. I´m not saying that rechargeables are not a great idea. Of course they are.
It's just that so far they are not so reliable as the regular alkalines. Once they get there, I'll be the first to buy lots of them.
Maybe your reliability experience depends on the type of batteries, the way you (re)charge them en treat them in general?
So far I did not have issues with NiMH's.
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Rechargeable batteries do take matched use/rundown/storage methods knowledge, and careful maintenance using precision chargers for getting expected long life/reliability that differs with cell chemistry type.
My battery tips section gives usage/maintenance methods working best with various differing cell types commonly used for powering portable gear.
See: www.sonicstudios.com/batsys98.htm#tips (http://www.sonicstudios.com/batsys98.htm#tips)
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Second that. I´m not saying that rechargeables are not a great idea. Of course they are.
It's just that so far they are not so reliable as the regular alkalines. Once they get there, I'll be the first to buy lots of them.
Maybe your reliability experience depends on the type of batteries, the way you (re)charge them en treat them in general?
So far I did not have issues with NiMH's.
Good for you. :spin:
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AA Alkalines can be bought here in Florida for about $10 for 18-20 batteries.
I just paid $30 for 12 high quality low-self-discharge NiMH AAs and $40 for the charger.
(I need enough to run two recorders and have charged batteries ready to cycle)
So it's not really that big a difference over here. And again, piece of mind and having power when you need it is more valuable to many. You're absolutely right on the environmental argument though.
Still a pretty big difference. If you assume that you get fifty charges per rechargeable (which is pretty conservative), then you got 600 batteries for 70 bucks. And the next batch of 600 would cost $30, since you would already have the charger...Compared that to 30 packs of 20 each at $10 a pack = $300, and the next batch at $300 as well...
Good for you. :spin:
Snarky... ;)
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So far I did not have issues with NiMH's.
link me to ones you own.
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Good for you. :spin:
Snarky... ;)
No irony intended really.
I respect different opinions. That´s all.
Just wanted to make clear that respect for a different point of view also saves the environment
( at least TS environment). ;)
Peace and happiness
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I just returned from my 1st R-09HR recording.
It was an outdoor show(rock'n roll) and the result is really great.
SPLs where rock-concert-like.
No wind at all.
I taped from center about 25m from stage.
Used my sp-cmc-8 mics + 12V SP-SPSB-9 bbox + line in on r-09hr at gain 60.
Never had to adjust levels during the show. Peaks where at -6 to 3-db at 24bit 44,1kHz.
;D
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here a sample on DIMEADOZEN from my recording yesterday:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=212340
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here a sample on DIMEADOZEN from my recording yesterday:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=212340
Sounds really, really nice ;)
Thanks for sharing.
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Lack of a line out on this Edirol R-09HR is making me re-consider my recent purchase. I do not understand how that feature could be left off. I know its a great deck/recorder, but this prevents patches into me. Even from another Edirol. I am expecting a new one in a few days and can't return it. Expect me to sell it here by Thursday for much less than I paid.
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ONLY difference between phones/line outputs with newer compact model portable decks is having a level control for turning down volume when phones are attached.
For LINE output purposes, simply turn colume level control to full up setting.
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Lack of a line out on this Edirol R-09HR is making me re-consider my recent purchase. I do not understand how that feature could be left off. I know its a great deck/recorder, but this prevents patches into me. Even from another Edirol. I am expecting a new one in a few days and can't return it. Expect me to sell it here by Thursday for much less than I paid.
Perhaps you might be doing a great fuss over nothing, or nothing that is so important.
Most portable units have just one output, which is usually designed for headphones. It's a low impedance/high level type, which is also the way a good line-out should be. Home CD/DVD players, for instance, have low impedance outputs, even if usually not high level. But you could plug a headphone on them and it should work.
Modern chips allow to do that, and I'm pretty sure the 09HR output, even if labeled headphone, is quite good.
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Marantz and Sony have line outputs and headphone jacks. Yes, I realize that I can turn the volume all the way up. But would anyone (ex: a D8) really want to get a patch from that? Has anyone ever patched any deck into Edirol R-09HR via the headphones out? If so, how did it work out?
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Marantz and Sony have line outputs and headphone jacks.
Tradition, maybe? ;D
Yes, I realize that I can turn the volume all the way up. But would anyone (ex: a D8) really want to get a patch from that?
You just mentioned one of the first high quality units that did fashion such "joint" output: Sony D7 and D8. But with the idea in mind (I think) that everyone would be using another machine to play the DAT tapes. That principle could also be applied to the R-09HR: you are not expected to play your recordings through the unit's output, but process it on your computer.
Has anyone ever patched any deck into Edirol R-09HR via the headphones out? If so, how did it work out?
I'm sure it would play just great. Just beware of something, and that should be a matter of concern: provide an adaptor that you plug into the Edirol and never plug out, and at the other end put a socket (e.g.: 1/8" or 1/4" stereo jack) where you would actually connect your headphones or line out cable.
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Has anyone ever patched any deck into Edirol R-09HR via the headphones out? If so, how did it work out?
I've patched out to others with my R-09s and it's worked fine. I also playback into my stereo system, into portable speakers, into car stereos and into headphones (direct and also through a headphone amp) and it sounds great. I think the only thing different about the R-09HR output [edit- that I know of, I don't have an HR] is the elimination of the optical SPDIF. That's too bad since I do use that into my home receiver and would conceivably make for a better patch to someone that could take an optical patch by eliminating a second D>A>D conversion. I've never patched out that way though, only analog.
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Well, I'm here to learn, basically. But I'm not that sure about the sound quality of the R-09HR headphone output. I own both the R-0HR and the old R-09. The R-09's headphone out sounds way better. I use to plug a headphone into my R-09 to check my recordings right after a show and had a good idea of how it sounds. I just can't do it anymore. I only know how a given recording really sounds after saving it on my computer.
Just my 0,000000000000002 cents. ;)
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Interesting. That's a bummer. I don't have an HR so I can't comment.
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Well, I'm here to learn, basically. But I'm not that sure about the sound quality of the R-09HR headphone output. I own both the R-0HR and the old R-09. The R-09's headphone out sounds way better. I use to plug a headphone into my R-09 to check my recordings right after a show and had a good idea of how it sounds. I just can't do it anymore. I only know how a given recording really sounds after saving it on my computer.
Just my 0,000000000000002 cents. ;)
Here's another 2 cents. After recording a live concert Tuesday, I plugged the Edirol R-09 into my car stereo using the headphone jack and listened to the concert on the way home. It sounded very good in the car.
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Headphones, except rare exceptions, shouldn't be used to judge audio quality. What should be looked in a headphone are accuracy and how natural they can sound, that is as close as possible to the original sound.
This, which sounds rather obvious, can't be achieved by the majority of headphones around and even those that do restricted to specific frequencies, usually human voice or certain instruments.
To say that a headphone output sounded "better" than another one can be misleading, because it would depend on the headphone used, the sound recorded, the mic used, etc.
A proper test should involve using similar mics on a similar concert, then played and normalized using the same headphone (a good one). But to really judge the audio quality, both recordings should played through a good audio amplifier & speakers.
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Headphones, except rare exceptions, shouldn't be used to judge audio quality. What should be looked in a headphone are accuracy and how natural they can sound, that is as close as possible to the original sound.
This, which sounds rather obvious, can't be achieved by the majority of headphones around and even those that do restricted to specific frequencies, usually human voice or certain instruments.
To say that a headphone output sounded "better" than another one can be misleading, because it would depend on the headphone used, the sound recorded, the mic used, etc.
A proper test should involve using similar mics on a similar concert, then played and normalized using the same headphone (a good one). But to really judge the audio quality, both recordings should played through a good audio amplifier & speakers.
Hi,
It's not that complicated. I've recorded a ziliion concerts with both recorders and the results were always the same: the R-09 headphone out sound quality was always better. Same headphone (obviously), same mics, similar type of music. It's not something than happens here and there. It happens all the time.
But this is nothing that really bothers me. Overall, the new R-09HR final sound quality is way better than the old R-09 ;)
Just my 0,000000000000000000000000000000000002 cents
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That's what other folks have been telling me. The R-09 headphones output is better than the 09HR. I think when they removed the optical output Edirol should have at least provided a menu setting for a real line out. Feeding headphones and feeding another deck are two different things, IMO. When I give someone a patch out of my D8, I make damn sure its set to line out. Not headphones. Turning the volume up all the way colors the sound versus passing the source signal "as is" onto the next deck. I tape alone with my mics maybe 25% of the time. The other 75% are line-in patches from better mics where I pass a pure line out to someone else. Unless I am sure to be the last deck in the chain, I can't see how the 09HR will fit into that chain. It appears right now that I will be putting this beast up for quick sale so as to get a deck that has both line out and headphones. Thanks for the feedback guys.
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"When my r09hr´s batteries died, the recorded file was NOT saved"
"My r09hr's batteries died on Saturday night...I ran that fixwav utility, and the wav file headers were cleaned up and everything looked good..."
I'd like to hear from other R09HR owners about what happens when the power runs out. It will be useful to know if the R09HR routinely loses the file or corrupts the file a the point when the battery quits. Or maybe the R-09HR can't tell the power left in a rechargeable AA as well as it can an alkaline AA?
Flintstone
I recorded Southside Johnny two nights in a row Monday night and tonight using CSB mics, CSBB, mic in, and my R09HR at 24/96. Limiter off, plug in power off, mic gain low, low cut off, max file size 2 GB. I was using Duracell Ultra Digital AA and after the first night (approximately 2 hrs 45 min) the batteries still indicated full charge on the Edirol. Tonight I used the same batteries and they went dead after another 2 hrs and 12 minutes. I copied the files to my laptop and even the 12 minute cut-off file played fine without needing repairs. I have new PowerEdge rechargeables that I will be using in the future and of course will not try to record almost 6 hours on the same batteries again. BTW, the recordings sound much better than my previous PDAudio setup.
Here's a link to the recording
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=212495
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That's what other folks have been telling me. The R-09 headphones output is better than the 09HR. I think when they removed the optical output Edirol should have at least provided a menu setting for a real line out. Feeding headphones and feeding another deck are two different things, IMO. When I give someone a patch out of my D8, I make damn sure its set to line out. Not headphones. Turning the volume up all the way colors the sound versus passing the source signal "as is" onto the next deck. I tape alone with my mics maybe 25% of the time. The other 75% are line-in patches from better mics where I pass a pure line out to someone else. Unless I am sure to be the last deck in the chain, I can't see how the 09HR will fit into that chain. It appears right now that I will be putting this beast up for quick sale so as to get a deck that has both line out and headphones. Thanks for the feedback guys.
Well, this is not of my business, but I think you should think twice, friend.I understand you're not planning to use your recorder with external mics and I really respect your point. I'm not lecturing you. I hate when people try to do that to me. >:(
If you sell your R-09HR, you're going to sell a fine, great recorder. Moving, for instance, from the R-09HR to the Marantz 620, you'll have Line Out all right, but not as near the same sound quality ;).
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A headphone out can be a great line-out if designed properly. Many people use HQ headphone amps as preamps to drive stereo power amps for that very reason.
I don't get it, why cripple the output and eliminate the optical option, does it really cut costs significantly?
Wassup Roland? How about optical out AND in on the next version < that would be a valuable upgrade that many here would really appreciate.
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Headphones may be the worst type of load for testing the LINE output characteristic of a 'Phones' jack on these recorders.
Headphones present a LOW/COMPLEX loading of the output amplifier, while LINE loading is anything but low impedance, and varies with the patch cable length, cable characteristic, and the input loading of a LINE level input that's rarely adding anything complex to cause signal degradation or loading difficulty.
That's the reason there are so many headphones amps on the market, and your favorite phones will sound differently with each device it's driven by, so don't be judging the sound quality of a LINE function with what you might hear on connected headphones.
It just may be the R-09HR does not have such a great low and complex load driving ability, or nearly as good as the older R-09 deck, but likely have excellent quality with LINE cable driving purposes.
Suggest holding off conclusions unless this is carefully tested with phones/line output jack connected to suitable phones or speaker amplifier for judging how this output works for simple less demanding line cable driving purposes.
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Headphones may be the worst type of load for testing the LINE output characteristic of a 'Phones' jack on these recorders.
Headphones present a LOW/COMPLEX loading of the output amplifier, while LINE loading is anything but low impedance, and varies with the patch cable length, cable characteristic, and the input loading of a LINE level input that's rarely adding anything complex to cause signal degradation or loading difficulty.
That's the reason there are so many headphones amps on the market, and your favorite phones will sound differently with each device it's driven by, so don't be judging the sound quality of a LINE function with what you might hear on connected headphones.
It just may be the R-09HR does not have such a great low and complex load driving ability, or nearly as good as the older R-09 deck, but likely have excellent quality with LINE cable driving purposes.
Suggest holding off conclusions unless this is carefully tested with phones/line output jack connected to suitable phones or speaker amplifier for judging how this output works for simple less demanding line cable driving purposes.
That seems like a good suggestion.
But, is there any EQ typically applied to headphone outputs?
Richard
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That seems like a good suggestion.
But, is there any EQ typically applied to headphone outputs?
Richard
Headphones signal is typically wanting a flat, full bandwidth amplifier signal that's the usual for phones output jacks, and also LINE output.
What may be different in a Phones output circuit is the addition of a slightly larger in-series load resister of 50 to 150 ohms to help the output amplifier deal with complex low impedance loads, but will not alter driving high impedance LINE cable whatsoever.
In fact, inserting ~50 ohms in-series with a LINE amplifier's output is considered good practice keeping the amplifier's output more isolated, and stable under the more-or-less complex patch cable impedance conditions.
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In English (layman's terms) please....would I be able to pass a pure line out signal with no colorization to another deck via the headphones out or not?
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In English (layman's terms) please....would I be able to pass a pure line out signal with no colorization to another deck via the headphones out or not?
Yes, you certainly would.
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OK, so the curious geek in me won tonite. The 9HR arrived and I opened it. It is a lot smaller than I thought. After reading the owner's manual and going thru the basics, its not that hard to use. The firmware is 1.04 which seems to be the latest one. I connected it to the D8 and the out signal was passed ok once I raised the volume. So I think I'll keep this deck and experiment with it at a show.
Quick observation: When the Hold button is set to on, I can't change levels. I'm so used to the D8 allowing level control when its on hold. Given the location of the hold button on the 9HR, partial hold that allows level control would have been welcomed. Is this when somone would use AGC or Limiter?
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Quick observation: When the Hold button is set to on, I can't change levels. I'm so used to the D8 allowing level control when its on hold. Given the location of the hold button on the 9HR, partial hold that allows level control would have been welcomed. Is this when somone would use AGC or Limiter?
Rather than using AGC or limiter, record in 24 bit, set your levels conservatively & raise them in post if necessary.
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OK. Will do this via Audacity then.
Is there some way to completely shut off the display when recording? When I set the Display Timer to 2 seconds and power-save, it never went off while recording. Am I doing something wrong or is this a defective unit?
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Locking this thread. Part 3 continues here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,109564.msg1463093.html