Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE  (Read 86319 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dede2002

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1217
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2008, 09:05:50 AM »
No panic.
Microphone Madness has a bb that is the same size as a Zippo ( Zippo is a cigarette lighter, for you guys who grew up under the impression that cigarettes has always been uncool) ;D

That's the BB I'm talking about:

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm
Mics..........................SP-CMC-8, HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
Recorders...................Tascam DR-100MKIII, Marantz PMD 620 MKII, Edirol R-09

Offline NewTaper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2008, 05:08:36 PM »
I would like to claify the settings I should use on the R-09.

First my set-up:

Edirol R-09
Church Pre-Amp
DPA-4061 Mics

I believe I should go this way ?

On Back Of R-09

Line In
ACG - OFF
Low Cut- OFF
Mic Gain - LOW

Internal Set Up

Menu > Input Display > Plug In Power - OFF

My last question is I see people are commenting that the R-09HR is "Better"
than the R-09.

Is this "Better" something I would hear in a recording with this set up
at a loud rock concert? 
If I swapped from a R-09 to an R-09HR in the middle of a show would the latter sound better?

Thanks again for helping.

NT


Offline Dede2002

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1217
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2008, 08:06:45 PM »
I would like to claify the settings I should use on the R-09.

First my set-up:

Edirol R-09
Church Pre-Amp
DPA-4061 Mics

I believe I should go this way ?

On Back Of R-09

Line In
ACG - OFF
Low Cut- OFF
Mic Gain - LOW

Internal Set Up

Menu > Input Display > Plug In Power - OFF

My last question is I see people are commenting that the R-09HR is "Better"
than the R-09.

Is this "Better" something I would hear in a recording with this set up
at a loud rock concert? 
If I swapped from a R-09 to an R-09HR in the middle of a show would the latter sound better?

Thanks again for helping.

NT



Everything is OK regarding your setup.
To my ears and to other members around here,
yes, you can notice a pronounced warmth in the R-09HR sound. Better unit IMHO.
 ;)
Mics..........................SP-CMC-8, HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
Recorders...................Tascam DR-100MKIII, Marantz PMD 620 MKII, Edirol R-09

Offline jmz93

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2008, 12:17:51 AM »
Not to start a war but ... what is meant by warmth the way most people use it to describe sound? I usually think of it as a sound with more pronounced midrange.

Anyway, I've made two great recordings with the R9HR so far, with CA ST9100 and 4061's. Can I really hear a difference between 24 bit/44.1K and 96K? Not really ... but psychologically, I feel comforted knowing that geez, there sure is lots of data being written to the SD card. More must be better, right? :)

Offline digifish_music

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1016
    • digifish music
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2008, 01:52:48 AM »
Not to start a war but ... what is meant by warmth the way most people use it to describe sound?


The HR seems to record more bass in the input signal. Time for some more testing with a CD player and test signals...

digifish

- What's this knob do?

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15721
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2008, 10:29:41 AM »
There seem to be a number of new R-09HR owners that are using the internal mics.  Here's a link to an old R-09 thread exploring a few ways of improving the imaging of the closely spaced R-09 internal omni mics by attaching a small baffle to the recorder between the mics.  Take a look at the first two posts in the thread that are concerned with the internal mics, it gets into wacky stuff with externals from there.  The slightly larger folding cardboard baffle works better, but may not work in as many situations as the small foam ball which provides a more subtle improvement but could be used anywhere (well, maybe not the bright green ball). 

I almost never use the internal mics so I didn't go farther, but..

Extending the thinking, the ultimate inexpensive improvement of the internal mics would be to form a full Jecklin-disk baffle around the recorder with the mics on either side and get the whole thing up in the air on a pole somehow.  If anyone tries this please post photos of your work here and join us over in team DIY.  ;)
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Dede2002

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1217
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2008, 10:39:59 AM »
Not to start a war but ... what is meant by warmth the way most people use it to describe sound? I usually think of it as a sound with more pronounced midrange.

Anyway, I've made two great recordings with the R9HR so far, with CA ST9100 and 4061's. Can I really hear a difference between 24 bit/44.1K and 96K? Not really ... but psychologically, I feel comforted knowing that geez, there sure is lots of data being written to the SD card. More must be better, right? :)

Hi there,

No war here, friend  ;D
Well, by warmth I mean a more pleasant sound, not harsh, not irritating, with a nice bass.
About the 24 bit/44.1 or 96K, I use (my) common sense: the 96K option can't be worst, so I use it  ;D.
Take care and enjoy recording with your R09HR. I am  ;)
Mics..........................SP-CMC-8, HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
Recorders...................Tascam DR-100MKIII, Marantz PMD 620 MKII, Edirol R-09

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15721
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2008, 12:37:55 PM »
Can I really hear a difference between 24 bit/44.1K and 96K? Not really ... but psychologically, I feel comforted knowing that geez, there sure is lots of data being written to the SD card. More must be better, right?
About the 24 bit/44.1 or 96K, I use (my) common sense: the 96K option can't be worst, so I use it.

Actually according to Guysonic's R-09HR testing, the line-in RMS noise floor measurement increases a bit when recording 96kHz vs 44.1khz (no data shown for 48 & 88.2 rates).  The noise of the HR in that case increases by a dB or two to approximately the same level as the old R-09.  Can you actually hear that? I dunno.  Are there other factors that make a 96Khz recording subjectively sound better than a 44.1kHz recording on the same R-09 HR or vs. a 44.1kHz recording made on an old R-09? Could be. But considering only the RMS noise measurement on the HR, 44.1Khz performs slightly better than 96kHz.

My point is that more data isn't necessarily better.  There are trade offs, and as I mention above those trade offs may not only be limited to the increased size of the resulting files. Personally I feel that doubling the size of my files isn't worth the questionable (to my ears) benefit of the higher sampling rates it so I stick with 48kHz, but I do feel that using 24bits is worthwhile.  If CDs were my ultimate listening medium I'd record at 44.1 or, if I was willing to take the space hit and heard something that changed my mind about higher sample rates, 88.2 kHz on the HR, but not 48 or 96 kHz since the sample rate conversion required from those rates to 44.1 might easily eliminate any of the benefit that I can't hear anyway.   :P

Of course these are just the personal choices I've made.  I don't mean to dissuade anyone from recording at 96kHz.  Just keep your mind and ears open and be suspicious of your own assumptions.  Don't fall prey to the marketeers simplistic refrain of more is better!  The real story is always always more complicated.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Dede2002

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1217
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2008, 01:27:08 PM »
Can I really hear a difference between 24 bit/44.1K and 96K? Not really ... but psychologically, I feel comforted knowing that geez, there sure is lots of data being written to the SD card. More must be better, right?
About the 24 bit/44.1 or 96K, I use (my) common sense: the 96K option can't be worst, so I use it.

Actually according to Guysonic's R-09HR testing, the line-in RMS noise floor measurement increases a bit when recording 96kHz vs 44.1khz (no data shown for 48 & 88.2 rates).  The noise of the HR in that case increases by a dB or two to approximately the same level as the old R-09.  Can you actually hear that? I dunno.  Are there other factors that make a 96Khz recording subjectively sound better than a 44.1kHz recording on the same R-09 HR or vs. a 44.1kHz recording made on an old R-09? Could be. But considering only the RMS noise measurement on the HR, 44.1Khz performs slightly better than 96kHz.

My point is that more data isn't necessarily better.  There are trade offs, and as I mention above those trade offs may not only be limited to the increased size of the resulting files. Personally I feel that doubling the size of my files isn't worth the questionable (to my ears) benefit of the higher sampling rates it so I stick with 48kHz, but I do feel that using 24bits is worthwhile.  If CDs were my ultimate listening medium I'd record at 44.1 or, if I was willing to take the space hit and heard something that changed my mind about higher sample rates, 88.2 kHz on the HR, but not 48 or 96 kHz since the sample rate conversion required from those rates to 44.1 might easily eliminate any of the benefit that I can't hear anyway.   :P

Of course these are just the personal choices I've made.  I don't mean to dissuade anyone from recording at 96kHz.  Just keep your mind and ears open and be suspicious of your own assumptions.  Don't fall prey to the marketeers simplistic refrain of more is better!  The real story is always always more complicated.

Thanks for your post.
Don't worry about the marketeers tricks. I'm a copywriter, I've been performing all those tricks for 25 years  :wink2:
But I'm also suspicious about those testings. I always pay attention to my ears first.
Thanks again ;)
Mics..........................SP-CMC-8, HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
Recorders...................Tascam DR-100MKIII, Marantz PMD 620 MKII, Edirol R-09

Offline digifish_music

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1016
    • digifish music
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2008, 07:58:17 PM »
- What's this knob do?

Offline gmm6797

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3591
  • Gender: Male
  • Schoeps MK4 > nBoxPlat > Sony A10/SDMixPre6/SD 722
    • Homepage
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2008, 08:03:13 PM »

Offline digifish_music

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1016
    • digifish music
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2008, 08:18:28 PM »
quick fyi, that link is page 3, here is page 1 linked:
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/digitalmedia/2007/08/04/r-09-hr-microtrack-2-review.html?page=1

I know, however that is where the R09HR part started :)

digifish
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 08:21:52 PM by digifish_music »
- What's this knob do?

Offline gmm6797

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3591
  • Gender: Male
  • Schoeps MK4 > nBoxPlat > Sony A10/SDMixPre6/SD 722
    • Homepage
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2008, 08:41:09 PM »
good point, me no read good

Offline red

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 105
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2008, 12:26:23 PM »
Hi there,

No war here, friend  ;D
Well, by warmth I mean a more pleasant sound, not harsh, not irritating, with a nice bass.
About the 24 bit/44.1 or 96K, I use (my) common sense: the 96K option can't be worst, so I use it  ;D.
Take care and enjoy recording with your R09HR. I am  ;)

Dede2002, what kind of sd card do you use for 24/96 recording?  thanks!

Offline Dede2002

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1217
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part THREE
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2008, 01:51:44 PM »
Hi there,

No war here, friend  ;D
Well, by warmth I mean a more pleasant sound, not harsh, not irritating, with a nice bass.
About the 24 bit/44.1 or 96K, I use (my) common sense: the 96K option can't be worst, so I use it  ;D.
Take care and enjoy recording with your R09HR. I am  ;)

Dede2002, what kind of sd card do you use for 24/96 recording?  thanks!

No problem.
Kingston 8GB class 6.
Take care  ;)
Mics..........................SP-CMC-8, HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
Recorders...................Tascam DR-100MKIII, Marantz PMD 620 MKII, Edirol R-09

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.083 seconds with 43 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF