Topic: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)

[gmm6797]

lols. looks like sex toys for your phone

TMI

[Jonmac]

lols. looks like sex toys for your phone

TMI

They are the Larvae of the i-Fly

[willndmb]

I think my attenuator cable is not working correctly.
I us the attenuating cable to go from my pre/m10 (line out) > camcorder (mic in)

What I am wondering is, if I set the m10 to headphone out (instead of line out)can I then just adjust the volume on the m10 so that I do not overload the camcorder?
My camcorder has a level meter so seeing if the levels are overloading or not is not an issue but I want to be sure that if I adjust the head out volume while recording at the same time it will not effect the recording. I don't believe it should but can anyone confirm for me
Thanks

[DSatz]

If this has been addressed before, would someone please direct me to the messages? This is about recording with automatic level control (ALC). My recorder seems to set a very low initial gain, which doesn't increase even when a long time elapses with no loud sounds.

This week I recorded some lengthy training sessions at work, using an external Sony electret stereo microphone (ECM-202) that has typical sensitivity for its type. The recorder was set for high microphone sensitivity and ALC. The sessions I recorded were at normal speaking levels but the peaks on the recording were only at ca. -30 dBFS! And if I switch the sensitivity to low with the same microphone connected, the levels are even lower than that.

The microphone and its powering aren't the issue; I have others of the same type as well as others that are generally similar, the recorder behaves the same way with all of them, and if I disable the ALC and turn up the recording level knob, I can get much higher gain.

Given this situation I see that I should have used manual level control plus the built-in limiter, but I needed to participate in what I was recording, and didn't want to have to watch levels. It should be possible to use ALC for that purpose!

Has anyone else noticed that the automatic level control applies very little gain? I don't know whether my M10 behaves like others in this regard, or whether it might be broken. I might want to ask whether anyone else in NYC has one that I could borrow to compare with mine.

--best regards

[voltronic]

Has anyone else noticed that the automatic level control applies very little gain?

The only thing I ever noticed about the ALC is that it completely sucks.  Not sure why your levels would be that low though.  Next session use the manual gain like you said, but don't worry about setting the gain on the lower side.  Record in 24-bit, and you have a low enough noisefloor to raise a good 30dB in post and/or limit/normalize/compress as needed.

[earmonger]

Piling on a little with Voltronic--I didn't have low levels from ALC but I did have a deeply annoying recording when I used it for an interview.

Whenever there was a pause, it boosted the ambient noise, which happened to be an air conditioner, so between Q's and A's it sounded like a tornado was blowing through the place.

So frankly I don't see the use of it.  Manual plus limiter (and conservative levels) is the way to go.

[DSatz]

Two things I do know:

- The whole problem with my M10's ALC is that it doesn't do what earmonger describes: It doesn't set a high gain as the default, then duck that gain when loud sounds come through; instead it sets a very low default gain, and that gain doesn't ride up no matter how much time goes by without any loud sounds.

- With my M10 at least, the 24-bit mode of the M10 might as well not exist. The input noise of the recorder's electronics is at a 16-bit level, and the extra 8 bits give no further sonic information, or at most about 1 dB's worth. (I measured that via the line input, by the way, so with mike inputs the situation would presumably be worse.)

At this point I'd really be glad, in a way, to find out that my M10 is defective, and not representative of the species. So thanks for these two replies, since they pretty clearly imply that possibility.

Fortunately I bought my M10 from a reputable professional audio dealer (Dale Pro Audio in NYC); I'll ask them if I can test mine against their demonstrator model.

--best regards

[voltronic]

I don't have the capability to do audio measurements, but I have found the M10's self noise to be very low, at least to my ears.  This is proven every time I make concert recordings that are a combination of choral and instrumental, and in order to leave enough headroom for the instrumental secions,  the peak levels of the choral portions are around -24dB.  When I amplify those section accordingly later on, the only background noise that makes itself obvious is the HVAC system and audience noise.

Whether or not the M10 truly has 24 bits of resolution has been discussed several places here before, and those discussions have mostly been over my head.  All I know is I can make recordings of quiet vocal recordings in a room with a quiet audience and very low peaks, and my recordings do not suffer any ill effects when levels are raised in post. 

[DSatz]

Thanks, Voltronic. I'll follow this up when I have time (and when my home town isn't in the middle of a major snowstorm), and will post whatever I find out.

As far as wide dynamic range is concerned, my first decade doing live recording was before digital recorders were available. The dynamic range of a 16-bit recorder is considerably wider than a 15 ips studio open reel recorder using Dolby "A"-type noise reduction, and that in turn was very good back in the day (noticeably quieter than any FM broadcast or LP record pressing could match). So I would expect most people to find 16 bits to be plenty for most situations.

--best regards

[NSL]

Been wanting to pick up a second one for a while and found a new one at Guitar Center this afternoon marked down to $130.  No way I could pass that up.  Now I have a black and red one! 

[gmm6797]

clearance? sale? regular price?

[NSL]

It had clearance listed on the tag.  Original $249

[Phil Zone]

Been wanting to pick up a second one for a while and found a new one at Guitar Center this afternoon marked down to $130.  No way I could pass that up.  Now I have a black and red one!

The red one is the best

[F.O.Bean]

Been wanting to pick up a second one for a while and found a new one at Guitar Center this afternoon marked down to $130.  No way I could pass that up.  Now I have a black and red one! 

I have a black and red one too Next up is a white one to replace my old black one. The black one will be demoted to be my SBD recorder

[vanark]

I picked up a package of these.  I'd be willing to send some out to folks that are interested. I'd be interested in stickers or something else small in return.  really, the cost is postage.