Topic: Edirol R-4 Experiences

[mmmatt]

I would LOVE to get on the 24bit bandwagon with a busman2 R4! I don't have the funds for that yet (besides, I'd rather upgrade the mics before I move to 24bit), but I'd love to hear a busman2 R4 if/when this happens.

What kind of funds and turnaround time, ballparkwise, are we talking about?  My R-4 should arrive next week.

I dunno. Try sending busman2 a PM for his details. I can say that his UA-5 mod was very resonably priced and turnaround time was fantastic! At the time, he only needed a few days to work on/test the UA-5 to make sure everything was good to go. However, I'm sure turnaround time is dependant on his personal time and the amount of work he has coming in.

He has never cracked an r4 so he's not really sure if he can do it the same way as he would a ua-5.  He implied that it would be more $ than a ua5 mod because the 4 pre's and he also cautioned he doesn't know for sure what or how much or how long until he gets inside of one.  PM him.  If you are serious you could send him some hi-res photos of the guts and he may be able to make a better estimation based on that.

Matt

[zowie]

I'll keep it in mind.  Wanna make a few tapes with it first and get a good handle on the sound.

[phanophish]

Well, I made the jump, recievd it today.  Inital impressions are it's bigger than I expected, but I'm excited to break it in this weekend for the Yonder Mountain shows in Lawrence.  I'm thinking I'll run both sets of my mics and do 24/96 one night and 16/44 the other just to play around a bit.  I'll post my experience here once I have more to add.

[poorlyconditioned]

I would LOVE to get on the 24bit bandwagon with a busman2 R4! I don't have the funds for that yet (besides, I'd rather upgrade the mics before I move to 24bit), but I'd love to hear a busman2 R4 if/when this happens.

What kind of funds and turnaround time, ballparkwise, are we talking about?  My R-4 should arrive next week.

I dunno. Try sending busman2 a PM for his details. I can say that his UA-5 mod was very resonably priced and turnaround time was fantastic! At the time, he only needed a few days to work on/test the UA-5 to make sure everything was good to go. However, I'm sure turnaround time is dependant on his personal time and the amount of work he has coming in.

He has never cracked an r4 so he's not really sure if he can do it the same way as he would a ua-5.  He implied that it would be more $ than a ua5 mod because the 4 pre's and he also cautioned he doesn't know for sure what or how much or how long until he gets inside of one.  PM him.  If you are serious you could send him some hi-res photos of the guts and he may be able to make a better estimation based on that.

Matt

If anyone takes this apart, please send, or better yet, post pictures of the guts!  Here is my guess: a discrete transistor front end plus a vanilla opamp behind with.  In this case, perhaps changing the opamps won't make such a big difference.  Anyway, I'd like to see what is really inside.

By the way, how does the sound compare to a stock UA5?  I'm running a Presonus firepod and I *definitely* notice an improvement over the stock UA5.  The Presonus has vanilla opamps, but I think the discrete front end plus running +-15V makes a big difference in sound.

  Richard

[phanophish]

Just got done running YMSB this weekend. I am in love with the R-4.     I'll admit it, I was so wrong. I knew I'd like the device but, I really didn't think there would be a huge difference between 16/44.1 and 24.96.  I am blown away.  The sound is just so much more, smooth I guess is what I  would say.  It really did suprize me.  Count me a believer.  On top of that, the R-4 is just so nice to run.  Very simple, easy to use, fast transfers.  All I need now is a good workflow for tracking out the 24.96 stuff to DVD Audio.  I'm still working on getting that just right.  Any links to how tos for Wavelab?  Other good options?

[mmmatt]

Just got done running YMSB this weekend. I am in love with the R-4.     I'll admit it, I was so wrong. I knew I'd like the device but, I really didn't think there would be a huge difference between 16/44.1 and 24.96.  I am blown away.  The sound is just so much more, smooth I guess is what I  would say.  It really did suprize me.  Count me a believer.  On top of that, the R-4 is just so nice to run.  Very simple, easy to use, fast transfers.  All I need now is a good workflow for tracking out the 24.96 stuff to DVD Audio.  I'm still working on getting that just right.  Any links to how tos for Wavelab?  Other good options?

I was struggling with the tracking on the 24bit files then I saw that cdwav had a new version out and it is nearly flawless.  If you save to wav it isn't then possible to flac them... not sure shat that is about.  If you go strait to flac the files are perfect.  If I am doing global post in wavelab, I cut the files in half with cd/wav so I don't threaten the 2gb limit. 
     As for the general use of the r-4, I am a huge fan as well.  I am so happy I bought one.  It is slicker than shit.

Matt

[Brian Skalinder]

I was struggling with the tracking on the 24bit files then I saw that cdwav had a new version out and it is nearly flawless.  If you save to wav it isn't then possible to flac them... not sure shat that is about.  If you go strait to flac the files are perfect.

Tick the "Use Alternate 24-bit Format" checkbox when saving to WAV and you'll be able to FLAC afterwards at will.

[mmmatt]

I was struggling with the tracking on the 24bit files then I saw that cdwav had a new version out and it is nearly flawless.  If you save to wav it isn't then possible to flac them... not sure shat that is about.  If you go strait to flac the files are perfect.

Tick the "Use Alternate 24-bit Format" checkbox when saving to WAV and you'll be able to FLAC afterwards at will.

OK brian... don't post in this thread again until you haved dumped your mt's and bought an r4!  (actually... thanks for the tip!)

For the record.  I have never had the slow hdd message.  This last show was a total of 5hrs @ 4track 24/96 with a 1/2 full drive.  I have always taken he advice of others (this would be quite the lie if I ended the sentence here!) and put a piece of foam under the unit to arrest vibrations, but that is all.

Matt

[Nick's Picks]

fwiw...
I still think the R4 is a homerun box from Edirol.  Just dont expect a "high end" audiophile sound out of its analog section.  run a preamp in front of it, and that thing freakin' rocks HARD...the A/D is pretty solid, IMO.

recordings that I made using the stock preamps sounded good to me at first...then I started running a 248 in front of it, and that showed me exactly how those stock preamps sort of sucked.  they are hollow souding.

[mmmatt]

fwiw...
I still think the R4 is a homerun box from Edirol.  Just dont expect a "high end" audiophile sound out of its analog section.  run a preamp in front of it, and that thing freakin' rocks HARD...the A/D is pretty solid, IMO.

recordings that I made using the stock preamps sounded good to me at first...then I started running a 248 in front of it, and that showed me exactly how those stock preamps sort of sucked.  they are hollow souding.

Nick, if you are running an analog pre in front of it, arent you still running through the R4 pre?  If the pre's are lacking in dynamic range or in fidelity then you aren't changing that with your 248.  If they are lacking in color, then I can see where the 248 could help.  However, in my eyes, I would think a colored mic would have a similar effect.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Matt

[Nick's Picks]

my ears tell me your wrong.
yes, i'm still running through the analog section, but its getting a line level signal that does not need any gain (other than provided by the 248).

the quality of that line level signal is way better than what happens after a mic level signal is routed through those ass preamps.

a note of interest.
all of the 16bit recordings i made w/the Marantz ACM660 totaly smoke every stock preamp R4 recording I did at 2496.
Proving to me that great 16bit is better then "eh" 24bit.
but a great 24bit signal is still the shit.

[Nick's Picks]

the problem w/the r4 preamps (other than sucking)...

"mic" level, they are way too sensitive.  you will find it impossible to record a rock show this way.
"line" level, then you have to crank the gain into the nether regions of noise that the preamps introduce.
no happy medium, unless you are recording quiet sources where you can run mic in and get decent sound because your not pushing the preamps too hard (they dont like it)

[mmmatt]

my ears tell me your wrong.
yes, i'm still running through the analog section, but its getting a line level signal that does not need any gain (other than provided by the 248).

the quality of that line level signal is way better than what happens after a mic level signal is routed through those ass preamps.

a note of interest.
all of the 16bit recordings i made w/the Marantz ACM660 totaly smoke every stock preamp R4 recording I did at 2496.
Proving to me that great 16bit is better then "eh" 24bit.
but a great 24bit signal is still the shit.

Well... my warped logic is not the quality of your ears and playback setup I'm sure Nick, so I'll heed your word on this one!  I'm trying to work out a comp of the two different mbho omni's and may be able to work in a comp with mbho cards > v3 (analog out) > r4 -vs- mbho cards > r4. (hint hint brian!).  I guess we will have to see what happens, but that would sure tell the tale.  I have noticed that the r4 gets really noisy with the gain knob up so that could be a big part of it.  I'm not implying that the r4 has preamps equal to the quality of grace or an oade brick, but they sound better than previous edirol pre's from what I can tell without a direct comp.

Thanks for the words Nick!

"mic" level, they are way too sensitive.  you will find it impossible to record a rock show this way.
"line" level, then you have to crank the gain into the nether regions of noise that the preamps introduce.
no happy medium, unless you are recording quiet sources where you can run mic in and get decent sound because your not pushing the preamps too hard (they dont like it)

I agree with this for sure... I really wish that happy medium was there.  I'm sure if oade ever gets going on these, that will be solved.  When you run your 248 do you then go mic in and keep levels low or use the pad and keep the r4 knob low?

Matt

[Brian Skalinder]

I'm trying to work out a comp of the two different mbho omni's and may be able to work in a comp with mbho cards > v3 (analog out) > r4 -vs- mbho cards > r4. (hint hint brian!).

Gimme time and place and we'll get it done.  I'd love to run my Schoeps and AKGs through the R4, also, to see if I want to unload my T+ UA5 for an R4 (to be T-modded in the future).  Maybe Goran at Metro this Fri?  Though on-stage may not be the best comp.

I have noticed that the r4 gets really noisy with the gain knob up so that could be a big part of it.  [snip]  I really wish that happy medium was there.  I'm sure if oade ever gets going on these, that will be solved.

When I spoke with the Oades a couple weeks ago, they plan on working out a T-mod for the R4 during Feb and hopefully offering it for field use in Mar.  I asked about the + mod, and they indicated the R4 didn't really need a + mod, i.e. it's quiet enough as-is.  If Nick's saying the stock preamps are noisy at high gain, then I'm not sure what to think based on the Oadess comments.  While the UA5's straight T/W/P mod helped knock down the self-noise noticeably (it was still there at very high gain), the + mod removed it (audibly) entirely.

Hmmmm...looking forward to the comp, Matt!

Edit to add:  Also wanted to mention the Oades are not considering a W-mod for the R4 at this point.  Something about the R4's board voltage being too low for the W components they would like to use.  Damn shame, I'd've loved 2 ch W and 2 ch T!

[Brian Skalinder]

There are a couple variances that make this a non-true comp:
  Boa ran 24/48 and dithered down to 16/44 and I ran 16/44 originally
  Boa was ~20' closer and ~20' more DFC than I was
  Boa ran ~13' high, I ran ~8.5' high

And cards v. hypers, if I understand the MG model designations correctly (M20 = card caps, M210 = SMS2000 bodies + M21 hyper caps)?