Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII  (Read 105001 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kennedy

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3725
  • Gender: Male
  • Lezzy 🔥👁👁🖊🍻😘😷😍😷

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15735
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2006, 12:04:30 PM »
is this the transcend everybodies getting?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820163159&ATT=20-163-159&CMP=OTC-Froogle

Yup. Getting cheaper too.

also is it something that needs to be done everytime you reuse the card or is it a one and done thing?

Def. not necessary every time.  You can delete the individual files or move them off the card and write new ones.  Probably a good idea to format occasionally to keep the file sys in good shape.  Also convienient to quickly wipe the whole card clean without deleting each file individually.  No idea about using the Mac to format the card, sorry.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline kennedy

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3725
  • Gender: Male
  • Lezzy 🔥👁👁🖊🍻😘😷😍😷
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2006, 12:24:25 PM »

also is it something that needs to be done everytime you reuse the card or is it a one and done thing?

Def. not necessary every time.  You can delete the individual files or move them off the card and write new ones.  Probably a good idea to format occasionally to keep the file sys in good shape.  Also convienient to quickly wipe the whole card clean without deleting each file individually.  No idea about using the Mac to format the card, sorry.

thanks for the info +T
so how do you format on a PC, ive never dealt with flash cards before, just wondering what has to be done, time consuming or difficult to do?

Offline Rick

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2537
  • Gender: Male
    • My Recordings
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2006, 01:03:44 PM »
is this the transcend everybodies getting?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820163159&ATT=20-163-159&CMP=OTC-Froogle

Yup. Getting cheaper too.


Yeah a buck cheaper then last week :) Get it before the rebate ends!
Retired Taper


Offline Stauf

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2006, 01:11:45 PM »
I have a question about the 4GB cards and how people are using them. 

I see everyone talking about creating one file the size of the 4GB card.  People are saying this works and that is great.  Thank you guys very much for experimenting on this.

However, the issue is all about the 2 GB limit.  Say I make one recording that is 2.5 Gig.  Can the Edirol still adress the free space and create a new file?  I could see being able to make a single 4GB file but not 4 individual 1 Gig files.  Has anyone tried this?

If the only issue from not officially supporting 4GB cards is that the unit can't format internally or display free space correctly, I will purchase one.  I just need to know that I will be able to use all that space.

Asking another way, are there more limitations to the 4GB card than formatting and free space reporting? 

Thanks for any information you guys can provide.  This thread has been quite useful.

Offline sleepypedro

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4140
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2006, 01:35:26 PM »

so how do you format on a PC, ive never dealt with flash cards before, just wondering what has to be done, time consuming or difficult to do?

couldn't be simpler.  mount the card in your PC, via card reader, via the r09, whatever, then just right click on whatever drive letter it assigns.  go to the 'tools' menu, format is there.

Offline kennedy

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3725
  • Gender: Male
  • Lezzy 🔥👁👁🖊🍻😘😷😍😷
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2006, 02:35:15 PM »

so how do you format on a PC, ive never dealt with flash cards before, just wondering what has to be done, time consuming or difficult to do?

couldn't be simpler.  mount the card in your PC, via card reader, via the r09, whatever, then just right click on whatever drive letter it assigns.  go to the 'tools' menu, format is there.

thanks for the info, sounds easy enough +T

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15735
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2006, 04:48:16 PM »
I have a question about the 4GB cards and how people are using them ...
However, the issue is all about the 2 GB limit.  Say I make one recording that is 2.5 Gig.  Can the Edirol still adress the free space and create a new file?  I could see being able to make a single 4GB file but not 4 individual 1 Gig files.  Has anyone tried this?

Yes you can record multiple files of any size until the card is full.

Quote
If the only issue from not officially supporting 4GB cards is that the unit can't format internally or display free space correctly, I will purchase one.  I just need to know that I will be able to use all that space.

That is the case as far as the recorder and card are concerned...

Quote
Asking another way, are there more limitations to the 4GB card than formatting and free space reporting? 

Not in the recorder or card.  However, the software you use on the PC may have a certain file size limitation.  That's why people have been talking in the tread about how to split 4GB files to open them in an editing program.  Some popular programs cannot open files larger than 2GB for editing.  FWIW, 4GB files play fine via WinAmp, I haven't tired other players.

The file size limits that are an issue with the recording medium itself are based on the file system limitations: FAT16 has a 2GB file limit.  FAT32 has a 4GB file limit.  NTFS has a limit of 16TB I believe...
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline ballerusk

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 256
  • Soft spot for the sweet spot
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2006, 05:17:11 PM »
I just tested the R-09, recording from the tv by placing it in front of the speakers. As I've understood it you need the input level at at least +1 to manage to record anything at all, but with mics and a preamp it would be better to adjust it at the preamp and leave the R-09 at +1. I'm thinking about loud rock shows where you might want to leave the input level low.
Schoeps MK41s > Schoeps CMRs > Naiant Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15735
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2006, 06:42:30 PM »
...As I've understood it you need the input level at at least +1 to manage to record anything at all, but with mics and a preamp it would be better to adjust it at the preamp and leave the R-09 at +1. I'm thinking about loud rock shows where you might want to leave the input level low.

Both inputs (mic & lin-in) will mute if the input level is set to "0".  So be careful if you are adjusting input levels on the recorder and are near the bottom of the input range or you may inadvertantly mute the input if you go to low.

The jury is still out on how the gain structure works in this thing.  We won't know the best way to run it until someone does some bench testing or noise listening tests.  Using mic-in obviously adds gain as the record level is increased.  If you are using an external preamp, you'll most likely go line in.  How the level control for the line-in works is still in question. It may add analog gain as the control is increased, may add digital gain, or may just attenuate the signal.

If it just attenuates the signal you would probably want to run the input level on the recorder high so you can use less gain on your exteral preamp and maximize S/N ratio.  Edit/ or set your external preamp to where it sounds best and is producing a stong enough signal, and adjust at the recorder for good recording level. (I hope this is the case, but I sort of doubt it) Edit/ The control in this case would be acting like a pad as it's turned down from 100.  If the line-in input control adds gain on the recorder (and you like the sound of the external preamp's gain better) you'd do like you say and run the level on the recorder close to the low end of the scale and boost the signal using the external pre.  This is especially true if it's adding digital gain, which would eat up dynamic range as the input level was increased (as I understand it).
« Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 06:50:11 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline SunWizard

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 112
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2006, 08:55:04 PM »
Both inputs (mic & lin-in) will mute if the input level is set to "0".  So be careful if you are adjusting input levels on the recorder and are near the bottom of the input range or you may inadvertantly mute the input if you go to low.

The jury is still out on how the gain structure works in this thing.  We won't know the best way to run it until someone does some bench testing or noise listening tests.  Using mic-in obviously adds gain as the record level is increased.  If you are using an external preamp, you'll most likely go line in.  How the level control for the line-in works is still in question. It may add analog gain as the control is increased, may add digital gain, or may just attenuate the signal.


That is a very good question, and got me going on a science project to answer it, since I plan on using my R-09 often.  I sent out a line level 1khz tone from my stereo, mini plug out.  Then recorded this on my JB3 which has a setting for 0 gain.  This produced a constant -17db signal checked in wavelab.  Then I switched to my R-09 and recorded different line-in gain settings to get the same -17db checked in wavelab.  This turned out to be 8. 

So here is my theory of how the R-09 line-in works, if you set it below 8 you are attenuating the signal, all the way down to 0 which is 100% attenuated, no sound.   And any setting above 8 is adding gain.  So if you have a super nice preamp that you want to use, set the R-09 to 8 and then use the controls on the pre to set the levels after that. 

The pre on the R-09 sounds decent, so it would be great to hear a comparison of a commonly used high end pre recorded with the R-09 line-in set to 8, versus using only the R-09 pre and mic in with gain adjusted to match the saime record levels.
AT853 (CMC-4)>3wire batt.box or SP box >Edirol R-09 or iRiver H120 or JB3
C4 > D-mod UA-5 >Edirol R-09 or iRiver H120 or JB3

Offline gmm6797

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3591
  • Gender: Male
  • Schoeps MK4 > nBoxPlat > Sony A10/SDMixPre6/SD 722
    • Homepage
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2006, 09:06:15 PM »
Not sure if that is good news or bad news.... gain and attenuation all build right in.

Offline SunWizard

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 112
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2006, 09:33:55 PM »
Not sure if that is good news or bad news.... gain and attenuation all build right in.

It may mean that even if you use an external pre it goes through the R-09 amp circuit also, so it may not help much to use an external pre.  Someone who has a nice external pre should do some tests.  Or I wonder if Edirol ever responds to emails asking questions like that?
AT853 (CMC-4)>3wire batt.box or SP box >Edirol R-09 or iRiver H120 or JB3
C4 > D-mod UA-5 >Edirol R-09 or iRiver H120 or JB3

Offline VA_TAPER

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 904
  • Gender: Male
  • SPA AKG C33E->Hamptone HVTP2->Tascam DV-RA1000 DSD
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2006, 09:43:04 PM »
This test only works in that relative manner.  Many things contribute to the signal level required to reach 0dbfs.  Any opamps in the signal path even different codecs or a/d's depending on the device require different voltages to reach 0dbfs.  The search for unity gain, which is what you are looking for is an elusive one.  I would reccomend simply matching the R-09 to your pre.  i.e. when you reach 0db on your pre you should be at -6 or -12 on the R-09.  This will allow the headroom in the analog section (your pre) and prevent digital overs from transients.  This is the way studios and location sound recordists match their gear.  Chances are, even if the R-09 is attenuating at the level you need to keep headroom, that the pre you are using is cleaner than the R-09 therefore the attenuation is actually giveing you a better S/N ratio or EIN.  Remember with 24 bits maxing the signal is not needed like in 16-bits.  If you're highest peak is at -6db then your still capturing 23-bits which is better than the dynamic range of the R-09, so you are really in the safe zone.

peace, chris
« Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 09:48:04 PM by VA_TAPER »
My recordings and transfers at archive.org: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=berryman%20AND%20mediatype%3Aetree%20AND%20collection%3Aetree

“Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.”  Joseph Stalin

Offline SunWizard

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 112
  • Gender: Male
Re: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2006, 10:10:43 PM »
Chances are, even if the R-09 is attenuating at the level you need to keep headroom, that the pre you are using is cleaner than the R-09 therefore the attenuation is actually giveing you a better S/N ratio or EIN.  

Would this be true if the R-09 is doing the attenuation digitally?  Kind of hard to tell that without some tests or more info from Edirol. 

This also seems like it would not be true if the signal path always goes through the R-09 preamp even on line-in.  Which seems likely since you can get almost exactly the same gain on line-in as on mic-in with the low gain switch setting on the back.
AT853 (CMC-4)>3wire batt.box or SP box >Edirol R-09 or iRiver H120 or JB3
C4 > D-mod UA-5 >Edirol R-09 or iRiver H120 or JB3

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.078 seconds with 40 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF