Topic: Korg MR-1 and MR-1000 - News DSD Recorders announced at AES

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

I like my r09 a LOT but, so far, the A/D does not seem to capture cymbal detail and decay as well as the 722.

So the 24/96, 24/192 and DSD on the small recorder could be moot if the signal path and A/D can't capture the detail.  Specs aside, how GOOD will it sound.

That's probably the best point...

You could have ultra high resolution of a not-so-great input signal. 

Let's hope the rest of this thing sounds nice.  Not to be pessemistic, but it is being made by Korg.  Have they made any higher quality recorders etc. Like studio gear?  The only products I've seen by them were some pretty consumer grade mixer/recorders and whatnot.  Do they made any studio gear, or are they affiliated with any other companies?

[RebelRebel]

well hell, why use anything with a good signal path anyway..hell..the music is coming out of some busted ass peaveys from 1978 that were sent a signal by some behringer eurorack POS , DBX driverack, and a half blown ART multiverb.operated by some numbnuts with half a GED , a coke problem and a bench warrant.




tascam has a reputation for making less than stellar gear too, but the DVRA is a homerun. converters are great!

lets not put the cart before the horse here..

DSD is a stellar format. this is a good thing.

I like my r09 a LOT but, so far, the A/D does not seem to capture cymbal detail and decay as well as the 722.

So the 24/96, 24/192 and DSD on the small recorder could be moot if the signal path and A/D can't capture the detail.  Specs aside, how GOOD will it sound.

That's probably the best point...

You could have ultra high resolution of a not-so-great input signal. 

Let's hope the rest of this thing sounds nice.  Not to be pessemistic, but it is being made by Korg.  Have they made any higher quality recorders etc. Like studio gear?  The only products I've seen by them were some pretty consumer grade mixer/recorders and whatnot.  Do they made any studio gear, or are they affiliated with any other companies?

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

well hell, why use anything with a good signal path anyway..hell..the music is coming out of some busted ass peaveys from 1978 that were sent a signal by some behringer eurorack POS , DBX driverack, and a half blown ART multiverb.operated by some numbnuts with half a GED , a coke problem and a bench warrant.




tascam has a reputation for making less than stellar gear too, but the DVRA is a homerun. converters are great!

lets not put the cart before the horse here..

DSD is a stellar format. this is a good thing.

I can't argue with that...

Tascam does have a history of making pro quality studio gear (DVRA's intended market), what can be said for Korg?

I hope it's a winner, I'd love to see DSD become much more common.

[RebelRebel]

the Korg Triton is awesome!


well...maybe itll be stellar!

well hell, why use anything with a good signal path anyway..hell..the music is coming out of some busted ass peaveys from 1978 that were sent a signal by some behringer eurorack POS , DBX driverack, and a half blown ART multiverb.operated by some numbnuts with half a GED , a coke problem and a bench warrant.




tascam has a reputation for making less than stellar gear too, but the DVRA is a homerun. converters are great!

lets not put the cart before the horse here..

DSD is a stellar format. this is a good thing.

I can't argue with that...

Tascam does have a history of making pro quality studio gear (DVRA's intended market), what can be said for Korg?

I hope it's a winner, I'd love to see DSD become much more common.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

the Korg Triton is awesome!

MIDI magic...

[eric.B]

Jack DeJohnette was playing a newer version Korg Triton at the show I saw on Saturday night with Bill Frisell..  fwiw

[MattH]

I have found that DSD recording can make the rest of the signal chain much less important. Most high quality gear is designed to make PCM sound better. A lot of money is spent trying to improve a PCM decimated signal, both in recording and in playback.

DSD does not provide the extended frequency response that 96kHz and 192 kHz PCM recordings are trying to capture. PCM wastes a lot of information trying to capture frequencies beyond those being played live or even reproduced in the studio. This is then further limited by the mics, playback system and limited human hearing range. DSD in contrast is providing hugely higher resolution in the range we all hear and with low cost mics and playback systems. There is at least twice as much information/resolution in the 20-20k range vs. PCM.

I hope we start seeing DO NOT CONVERT TO PCM warnings on downloads. Seems we are moving more towards PC based playback systems and the playback software is there. No real need for an alternative Audio SACD format we can afford to play on SACD players that seem to be phasing out. Now a consumer DVD player that would play DFF files would be welcome by me. I bet they would sell many more of those than SACD players!

Now I need to go integrate my PC into the main listening system and scale my gear way down while I can.

[macdaddy]

so to do this ('puter playback) right, wont we need to see dsd capable cards (pci, etc)..?

a ways away, but 'puter dsd playback would be killer. foobar2k baby!!!! if any app (and programmer) can get it right it will be pp (the d00d that wrote fb2k)

[MattH]

so to do this ('puter playback) right, wont we need to see dsd capable cards (pci, etc)..?

a ways away, but 'puter dsd playback would be killer. foobar2k baby!!!! if any app (and programmer) can get it right it will be pp (the d00d that wrote fb2k)

I'm reasonably certain the included software will play back the DFF files without any special card.

[thegreatgumbino]

Now I need to go integrate my PC into the main listening system and scale my gear way down while I can.

After hearing your Wilco recording, I think it's safe to say all you need is the Milab's!! 

[udovdh]

DSD does not provide the extended frequency response that 96kHz and 192 kHz PCM recordings are trying to capture. PCM wastes a lot of information trying to capture frequencies beyond those being played live or even reproduced in the studio. This is then further limited by the mics, playback system and limited human hearing range. DSD in contrast is providing hugely higher resolution in the range we all hear and with low cost mics and playback systems. There is at least twice as much information/resolution in the 20-20k range vs. PCM.

Interesting. This is the general opinion? This could be one of the pro's for DSD.

I hope we start seeing DO NOT CONVERT TO PCM warnings on downloads. Seems we are moving more towards PC based playback systems and the playback software is there. No real need for an alternative Audio SACD format we can afford to play on SACD players that seem to be phasing out. Now a consumer DVD player that would play DFF files would be welcome by me. I bet they would sell many more of those than SACD players!

I think playback gear beyond a PC is a must. I can burn DVD-A's and if NAD fixes their issue the audio can be played back flawlessly.
DSD on the other hand is not yet a 'user' medium. I can not archive DSD to disk in a playable format (except PC) nor edit.
This is a con.

Are the file formats that the Korg units support for DSD proprietary and undocumented?

Now I need to go integrate my PC into the main listening system and scale my gear way down while I can.

Less is more?

mic -> batterybox -> DSD ? 

[RebelRebel]

Less is more?

Less is ALWAYS more.. The less gear in the signal path to introduce colorations, the better.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I have found that DSD recording can make the rest of the signal chain much less important. Most high quality gear is designed to make PCM sound better. A lot of money is spent trying to improve a PCM decimated signal, both in recording and in playback.

That's some heavy hype. Care to expand on it?

DSD does not provide the extended frequency response that 96kHz and 192 kHz PCM recordings are trying to capture. PCM wastes a lot of information trying to capture frequencies beyond those being played live or even reproduced in the studio. This is then further limited by the mics, playback system and limited human hearing range.

Your attempt to characterize 96khz as merely an effort to capture frequencies beyond human hearing seems disingenuous and inaccurate.

DSD in contrast is providing hugely higher resolution in the range we all hear and with low cost mics and playback systems.

Low cost playback = no DSD.

Seems we are moving more towards PC based playback systems and the playback software is there.

The DSD player software on your PC will convert to PCM before sending to the soundcard.
The only exception would be a native DSD card.  Most soundcards talk PCM only.

[Nick's Picks]

i will be on this like shit on Rusty's shorts!

[MattH]

http://www.korg.co.jp/Product/DRS/MR-1000/