Topic: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder

[datbrad]

Has anyone tried to see if the digital input resamples?

Actually, I was wondering how one goes about determining this. In other words, how can you tell if the unit is locking on the A/D clock in front of the digital input, versus resampling using the R44's clock?

[Ozpeter]

On an R4 at least, no. Monitoring options are extremely limited. If you need robust monitoring, you're probably going to need to look elsewhere... Then again, at this price point with 4 chanels, 4 pres, 4 phantom, you don't have much choice.

Thanks - indeed, one can't complain at what is there for the price, but if a significant extension of the ability of the unit would "only" be a matter of a firmware change, then perhaps increased sales would offset the possibly small further development effort.  But of course it might not be a small matter, or even possible at all.

As far as I'm aware, there is no small inexpensive battery powered device on the market which will take four line outputs from an R4/R44 and, via four level controls with concentric balance controls, produce a stereo mix for headphones.  Nearest option would be  small Behringer-type mixer I guess.  Perhaps there's a modest market there for someone to hand-make such a piece of kit - to sit underneath an R-44 maybe!

[Ozpeter]

Actually, the "Rolls MX28 Stereo Mini-Mix VI" would appear to do the job nicely - it's only got three stereo/mono inputs but assuming you were working with a stereo pair and two spots, that counts as three.  Or if working with four mono mics, you'd probably have two of them panned hard left and right anyway, so again, they could go in as a stereo pair.

The downside is that it's not available here in Australia...

[BayTaynt3d]

It's worth noting that this mixing for monitoring is made possible by the new RCA outs configuration on the R44, the R4 has a stereo RCA out that essentially records whatever monitoring mode the headphone out is playing (stereo, all four mixed, one chan at a time mono). I'm liking the flexibility those four independent outs enable.

But I'm interested to see how this SD card thing plays out, and I'm eagerly waiting to see how reliable is this thing turns out to be, and also will anyone being offering mods on the box. If things look good, I'm selling my R4 and Oade PMD660 and going for one of these puppies I think. Time will tell, heh...

[Ozpeter]

I'm using a Panasonic SD5 high def camcorder with 4 or 8Gb SDHC cards and have had no problems with the data rate vs card write speed - it fills a 4Gb card in about 40 mins, so (without having actually checked the math) that's got to be rather faster than audio even 4 channels at 24/96.  So I'd be confident that in principle SDHC is up to the task.

BTW, thinking on, the Behringer Xenyx 502 very compact and cheap mixer would work as well as the Rolls mixer for monitoring from those four handy outputs.  And you can get it everywhere.  But battery powering is not an easy option.  Hmmm.

[DSatz]

DATBRAD, I make that kind of test by programmatically generating a sequence of digital samples whose values follow a predictable mathematical sequence. I store them as a wave audio file and burn that file to a CD.

I then play that CD on a player that has a digital output, which I connect to the digital input of the device under test. Then I record the result and look at the sample values in the second file. If they follow the pattern that I programmed into the first file, then the signal wasn't resampled (or was resampled perfectly, such that it doesn't matter).

I used a similar technique about ten years ago when I set out to evaluate computer CD-ROM drives. I wanted to know what really happened when people capture ("rip") digital samples from audio CDs at high speed--which, back then, was only 8X instead of the 50X and higher of today. I saw considerable skips, interpolations, samples repeated, arbitrary channel reversals, etc. on most of the drives that I tested, including "name brands." It's a fact that a lot of people apparently either don't know about or refuse to think about.

--best regards

[RebelRebel]

I dont know if it will apply to resampling queries..but This software is really interesting.

[digifish_music]

As far as I'm aware, there is no small inexpensive battery powered device on the market which will take four line outputs from an R4/R44 and, via four level controls with concentric balance controls, produce a stereo mix for headphones. 

The following is an option...

Behringer battery powered mixer @ approx $100 USD.

[Ozpeter]

Indeed the Behringer battery mixer is an option, but too big (if trying to pare things down to R-44 scale) for my personal liking.

Another approach to checking digital data is simply to invert one version against another - any differences will quickly be revealed.  Lining up two versions of a wave file is usually easier than one might think.

[Rick]

Last night I ran my R-44 for the 1st time in the field. A couple of thoughts:

- The stock pre-amps seem decent for amplified shows. I wasn't pushing them hard and there was plenty of head room. I don't have a good enough play back systems to make a critical review of sound quality, but the recording sounds pretty good. I didn't notice any noise. I'll post a sample later.

- At the show I thought there was something wrong with channel 3. I wasn't getting any signal, but this morning I tested it again and it seemed to be working ok, so I'll have to keep any eye on it. I'm hoping it was some kind of human error   

- I'm not sure how the R-44 saves the settings so I would check them before you start recording. I think if you change the source, it defaults back to 1xStereo.

- The level/sens knobs are small. I even have pretty thin, average sized hands and it was a little tricky to change two channels at once.

All in all its a better smaller version of the R-4.

I ran MC930 > R-44 and MC930 > V3 + SBD (mono) > R-44

 

[leehookem]

that's god to know Rick.  Glad it's working now.  And I remember now the only time i've run line in was with RCAs.  I was thinking about the R4 line in with the XLRs.  The recording sounds fine but brickwalled.

About to head to Strait music and pick up a XLR > RCA cable.

[Rick]

that's god to know Rick.  Glad it's working now.  And I remember now the only time i've run line in was with RCAs.  I was thinking about the R4 line in with the XLRs.  The recording sounds fine but brickwalled.

About to head to Strait music and pick up a XLR > RCA cable.

R-44 doesn't have RCA ins...

[BayTaynt3d]

Last night I ran my R-44 for the 1st time in the field. A couple of thoughts:

- The stock pre-amps seem decent for amplified shows. I wasn't pushing them hard and there was plenty of head room. I don't have a good enough play back systems to make a critical review of sound quality, but the recording sounds pretty good. I didn't notice any noise. I'll post a sample later.

- At the show I thought there was something wrong with channel 3. I wasn't getting any signal, but this morning I tested it again and it seemed to be working ok, so I'll have to keep any eye on it. I'm hoping it was some kind of human error   

- I'm not sure how the R-44 saves the settings so I would check them before you start recording. I think if you change the source, it defaults back to 1xStereo.

- The level/sens knobs are small. I even have pretty thin, average sized hands and it was a little tricky to change two channels at once.

All in all its a better smaller version of the R-4.

I ran MC930 > R-44 and MC930 > V3 + SBD (mono) > R-44

 

Couple comments from a long-time Stock R4 runner (comments are re R4 not R44, but I bet some still apply):

- In general, the pres are better than most people give the R4 credit for, and have decent headroom if pad/sensitivety set right. BUT they can be a bit "flat" compared to some of the more transparent-sounding mods and other manufacturer's models. They can also be a bit noisy when totally cranked.

- What was on the other end of Chan #3. A mic? Maybe phantom got turned off accidentally? Phantom is individually-switchable per channel on the R44, correct? (a feature I very much welcome).

- In addition to checking settings, it wouldn't be a bad idea to do a format on your SDHC card before each show. Ensures it's formatted in a way that that specific device expects (I use my SDHC cards in multiple devices) and it ensures a perfectly defragged card for recording.

[picklemic]

I've been testing it out and getting ready for Jazzfest, but how does the pre record work? Do you just turn it on in the menu, then you leave it on record/pause, then when you start it it has the past 5 seconds on there too?    Thanks 

[Ozpeter]

Manual p68 -

"You can specify the length of time that the sound is captured “retroactively,”
starting from before the moment you pressed the [REC] (record) button. This
setting specifies the number of seconds that is captured retroactively.
* The maximum time depends on the sampling frequency, the sample size (bit depth),
and the mode setting."

Once the mode is on, it's recording all the time in essence - and eating the batteries a bit faster.